I am considering buying a share but am surprised at the size of most groups - the typical fraction seems to be about 1/8th. With this many in a group it must be difficult for individual members to get regular flying - presumably the summer weekends are booked out months in advance? To those with experience of this sort of scheme - am I really likely to get more flying if I buy a share of that size, or should I look for something larger?

In any group you will get those who fly regularly and those that do not - I would say 1 third in each category of regular fliers/fly once or twice a month/ hardly fly the minimum, even with a group of 8 that all members fly regularly you will still find a lot more availability than in a club, where you can have 8 different people flying in ONE DAY, also, you will find some members fly midweek so weekends are often divided between only 3 or 4 members who will not fly all/every weekend! We have 5 in our group and are looking to increase to 6 because there is so much of the time it is not flown.
Another factor is type of aircraft and what you want to do with it - an Aerobatic, non tourer will have more availability than a serious Touring type, but even there you will not normally find too much trouble in a group of 8, though it might be worth checking to see if they have some sort of system to prevent one person hogging the aircraft all the time - we have written into our rules a rotating week where the aircraft availability can be controlled by a different member each week (though we have never actually needed to use this).

We have 5 in our group (currently evaluating 2 potentials for the 6th share). By far the most important aspect of a group is the members. If you're not happy with any of them, walk away. We spent a lot of time getting the right people together and it makes a huge difference.

Foxmouth is very much correct. I am by far the most frequent flyer of our aircraft, some fly now and again, some hardly at all, and 1 had a baby to put a spanner in the works. There's never a problem with taking it away for long weekends or other substantial periods.

A good set of group rules are a very useful thing. Chances are if you've got them you'll never have to use them. Some groups run on a wink and a nod, but if conflict should ever arise it's prudent to have something to fall back on and say, "The rules you agreed to state.....".

Also do the sums. If a group seems ridiculously cheap chances are they're setting themselves up for a fall in the long run when major outlay is required (eg. new engine, costly repairs etc...). A financial model on the conservative side is a good idea, and will often prevent the need for members to dig into their pockets for large sums of money to cover unforseen expenses.

All the potential negatives aside however, I love having my own aircraft. There are no petty club rules to abide by, none of the problems with hiring (eg. can't take it away overnight, have to have it back by X o'clock, can only fly to licensed fields), better care of the aircraft, better avionics and a solid input into the direction of the group and improvement of the aircraft. I did a few trips away last year. Got rained in overnight on one occasion whereas our base was in sunshine; if I'd been hiring the school would have thrown a wobbler, whereas we simply went for a pub-crawl round Stratford.

If you're serious about flying as a long-term hobby, do the homework and find yourself a good group. If you can't find what you're looking for, do some more homework, find other interested parties and consider forming your own!

Groups do work well when the members get on well, so meet all the members and see what you think of them. I had a share in an Arrer and we decided not to have any rules, just the principle that we all had equal access. Some groups have complicated rules, but it is difficult to cover everything that will occur in a rule book. We all got on well and were able to get agreement whenever it was needed, hence my comment above about getting on with each other.

When I was in the Arrer group we split the big bills (insurance, airfield rent etc. ) and then charged about £70/tach hr wet. ie If you purchased fuel this was refunded by the group.

This was about half the going rate for renting an Arrow. I flew 25-30 hrs per year so this was cheaper than renting.

Only once or twice per year was the aircraft unavailable when I wanted it, although often a phone call to whoever had it booked resolved the situation eg, they would have the aircraft booked for the whole day, but they gave me a call when they were on their way back so I could meet them and go straight off on a joyride for 30 mins with friends.

The other big advantage was that I could take the aircraft for 1 or 2 days and only fly the hours I needed.

We did have an engine fund so that there was not a large cash call if anything major was needed.

I think that the group flying was by far a better experience than the renting that I did beforehand.

ZA

I still think wet hire is the most ridiculous idea. Someone blasting out an hour of circuits could burn about twice that of someone in the cruise at FL010. We fitted a fuel-flow meter for that exact reason, and apart from knowing to the litre how much fuel you've got left, you only pay for what you use and we simply have a column on the tech log for 'fuel used'.

We have an hourly dry rate which covers oil and time and usage related maintenance (prop, engine fund, 50hr checks etc).

The biggest advantage (in my opinion) is the ability to fly together.

In our group it is common for 2 or more to fly multi-sectors in a day. A greay way to go to places where you may not normally go solo.

After the best part of 30 years hiring club aircraft, and with having parted with the thick end of 2 grand to do the 12 hours + instructor check-ride ( 'you've done 5 good landings, but let's see if you can do one more'!) last spring, I bought a 1/12 share in an elderly but cherished C150.

As mentioned in a previous post, only about 50% of the group fly the aircraft regularly(one member doesn't have a licence), we have a great internet booking system, which restricts the number of forward-slots anyone can book in advance, and all the members are a nice bunch too.

Availability is great, and it is so nice to be able to enjoy a day out without checking your watch, worrying about the next hirer waiting for you to return.

Do your research first (aeroplane, esp. remaining engine hours) and group, but I wish I'd done this a few years ago!

4 in our group.

One's medical has lapsed so he only flies with one of the other group members (don't ask, he just seems to prefer it that way)
One works abroad a lot and hasn't flown it for nearly a year. However when he is in the UK he tends to use it mid-week.

Which leaves just two of us regularly flying.

Three of us are good at engineering so as it is on a Permit we do all of the donkey work which keeps the airworthiness costs very low. It's kept on a tie-down, not in a hangar and the cost is 45 quid a month each and 35 quid an hour wet. Very occaisonally we might get a cash call for 50 quid each if we've had some unexpected costs but it is very rare.

Of course if you want to operate a hangared retractable with a VP prop and have it professionally maintained on a CofA your costs would be in a different league, which is here you start to see the group size creeping up so that the individual's share of the fixed costs is kept within bounds.

Mike

14 in our group,about half fly regularly,some rarely and the aircraft is nearly always available via internet booking system.

Just gone up to £40/hr wet all included due to fuel cost.
Engine fund between £1-400 per year.

Most important is the membership,and we are lucky that we all get along well
Because it is a large group does not automatically mean the aircraft is always booked.

Good luck
Lister

I'm looking to joing a group in the south-east (Denham/Blackbushe/WW/Fairoaks) but not finding that many groups advertising for new members. Found a couple on UKGA.com and flyer.co.uk, but not much else. Is there somewhere I'm not looking? or is it a case of visiting airfields and browsing noticeboards?!

Thanks

Hi XX621,
PM me

XX, we have share going in our Falconar at Goodwood http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=23812,
basic flying, but cheap.
Another good place for shares is Popham http://www.popham-airfield.co.uk/group_flying.htm