Unwanted attention/inappropriate comments from cabin crew

[k3lvc]

On a recent BA flight back to LGW we had the (mis)fortune to find the flight operated by a 3rd party and for myself and a foreign, male colleague to be seated in row 1.

Before take off the cabin crew (3 x F & 1 x M) shut themselves behind the curtain in the fore galley and were obviously discussing the feelings of the male crew member towards my colleague. English not being his native language my colleague was unaware of the issue.

During the flight aforementioned crew member insisted on serving us, making a fuss and continually asking whether we had everything we needed eventually ending up sitting in 1C when it's occupant left for the bathroom so he could try and talk to my colleague - a very one-sided conversation followed which should have given the signal that colleague was neither gay nor interested but didn't seem to dampen the enthusiasm of CC.

On leaving the plane I was some places behind colleague therefore heard in full the comment from crew member to SCCM - 'Well I'd :mad: him'.

Am I having a Meldrew moment or is this unacceptable behaviour which should be reported to BA (or the 3rd party) ?

[Getoutofmygalley]

Yes it is unacceptable behaviour, but only you can decide if you want to take it further.

Although if the flight was operated by a third party airline on BA's behalf, I am sure they would WANT to know as the third party airline has not acted in a manner that BA would consider to be appropriate.

[TSR2]

As these comments were clearly heard by you before take-off, I cannot understand why you did not immediately press the call button, ask to speak to the senior cabin crew and let him/her know in no uncertain terms that such behaviour is offensive, totally unacceptable and will be reported to the airline.

[k3lvc]

Mainly because there were only 4 crew on board and the SCCM (who was far from Senior in age) was more than involved in the proceedings giggling away like a schoolgirl.

[VS-LHRCSA]

What if it was a female crew member fussing over your colleague?

Personally, I feel in either situation it was inappropriate but then I've always been a bit of a Meldrew - "I don't believe it"

[Avitor]

Unless you are bent on getting sombody sacked, you are going to get nowhere without cast iron proof of intent.
Let the matter of a bit of banter rest and, climb off your high horse.

[TSR2]

All the more reason for confronting her in a friendly and polite but firm manner. If she had any sense at all she would immediately realise that you were in fact doing her a favour by giving her a chance to resolve the issue there and then without further action which could possibly have a negative impact on her career.

If you genuinley believed at the time that the comments and behaviour of the CC were offensive or inappropriate, and confronting the SCCM was not an option, you could have remained seated at the end of the flight, request to speak to the captain and reported the matter directly to him/her.
I firmly believe that any complaint should be raised with, and if possible, resolved at source. To complain retrospectively tends to remove some credibility from the seriousness of the complaint.

[k3lvc]

Thanks - interesting points from everyone. With hindsight I should have taken TSR2s advice and raised an issue with SCCM or Captain at the time but it was the 4th sector of a long day. I've no intention of raising the issue to such a level that it becomes disciplinary but feel that both the CC involved and the SCCM should be aware of the actions and their effect.

If the situation was female crew vs male pax then the level of it would still have been inappropriate, if it was male crew vs female pax then the Captain would definitely have been involved and a formal complaint made there and then.

And as a final to Avitor - a high horse is most definitely not what I'm on. Banter has it's place and that is out of earshot of the people involved - I'm not naive enough to think that this doesn't happen but anyone doing it needs to be able to read the signals and take responsibility for their actions. I'm pretty sure BA's training on Customer Service doesn't include anything positive on trying to :mad: pax !

[Final 3 Greens]

k3lvc

I have a lot of sympathy for you with regard to not confronting the senior CCM there and then.

You have to live with them for the rest of the flight.

Eye drops in coffee springs to mind and if this crew were unprofessional enough to be overheard, what else might they do?

Avitor, you should know better than to comment about high horses, the OP has every reason this complain about this type of behaviour.

[Virgin Boi]

I very much doubt the Captain would be interested, or even willing to talk to you about it!

The Captain is there to fly the aircraft, the in-charge cabin crew member is there to supervise the crew, and if she wasn't doing it then its the job of cabin crew management in the relevant airlines office to take it further!

[TightSlot]

Sadly, this kind of behavior happens from time to time: It is always unacceptable and there is no excuse.

As Cabin Crew, I strongly resent those individuals that bring our chosen career into disrepute. This kind of incident helps form and maintain an impression of Cabin Crew that can be hard to change.

The rapid expansion of air travel has resulted in the recruitment and subsequent promotion of some people who are inappropriate for the job. As passengers you don't want them on board - those crew who care don't want them either: Our job just became a tiny bit more difficult to do as a direct result of this incident.

If you can summon the energy, write to BA and ask them for comment.

[Final 3 Greens]

Tightslot

Whilst you make a good point, as someone who takes a lot of flights, unprofessional behaviour by cabin crew is still a rare experience.

Just though I'd add that for a bit of balance in this thread.

[Final 3 Greens]

Virgin Boi

You, for some strange reason (perhaps because I passed an exam in air law) I was under the false impression that the aircraft captain was in command of the whole crew.

S/he may or may not be interested in discussing the matter, but the offenders were in his/her chain of command.

[k3lvc]

F3G - thanks for your balanced comments - I too can concur that this is only the 2nd time in 800+ sectors that any negative incident with CC has happened. In fact I'm often the one that writes positive comments to BA et al for their crew support/behaviour. Strangely the last incident was last week again with BA hence my belief that I may be having a Meldrew moment.

Tightslot - respect your advice and factual email fired off to BA - await the response with interest

[V800]

As these comments were clearly heard by you before take-off, I cannot understand why you did not immediately press the call button, ask to speak to the senior cabin crew and let him/her know in no uncertain terms that such behaviour is offensive, totally unacceptable and will be reported to the airline.


And been offloaded for security reasons.

[VS-LHRCSA]

If the flight was operated by a third party, BA is in no place at all to follow this up as it is a legal issue within that charter airline. You wouldn't go to ASDA to complain about Tescos, would you? It may be in their interests to know but they will be limited in what they can do. In fact, All BA really can do is offer an apology - and it will take around 6 weeks to get one. They may pass on your email to the charter airline but with data protection they would not be told the outcome of an internal disciplinary.

With this nature of complaint, you are claiming sexual harrassment - this is serious, you can't put this kind of allegation into the same complaint system for not getting your choice of meal. You can't just write in and say so-and-so did this and so-and-so said that. You will have to request an internal investigation with the charter company directly (Astraeus, Titan, Monarch or whoever covered your flight). In all probability their legal department will contact you so you can make a statement. They will then suspend the whole flight crew until statements are taken from them. They will also need a statement from your colleague. After all of this, they will then decide what action, if any, to take. It's your word against theirs.

If you feel it's worth persuing, then go for it but remember you may be dragging innocent crew into something that they had nothing to do with. You cannot just write into a company and expect them to take disciplinary action against an employee just on your say so - you have to be prepared to back up your allegations.

[k3lvc]

You'll note from my comments that at no point have I mentioned sexual harrassment nor am I on a witch-hunt for disciplinary action. I am merely reporting back to the airline behaviour which I consider to be inappropriate.

Your comment re BA is surprising and, whilst not a law expert, I have enough of a grasp to understand that I paid BA, my ticket was from BA and therefore my contract is with BA, not with a 3rd party. On this basis any complaint goes to BA and it would surprise me if BA have not written into their contract with said 3rd party that they reserve the right to have visibility of complaints raised against said 3rd party

[VS-LHRCSA]

They would with regard to a service issue but this is beyond that. It's a allegation that is going to name an individual. This info would not be released to BA.

I am not accusing you of a witch hunt - I am trying to help you. This is my area and I am trying to tell you the best way to get your complaint heard and the consequences of your complaint.

[rodrigooo]

God it sounds like you came out from the Jersey house of horrors and not a flight where someone just made a stupid comment and was abit forward, take it as a compliment or join a monastery, so when someone makes comments like that in a bar, restaurant street etc... do you phone the police??? RELAX!!! you will get wrinkly

[TightSlot]

First post rodrigooo, and an impressively unwise start to your PPRuNe career. Presumably, a Spanish village somewhere is now missing an idiot?

[groundbum]

must say rigriroo (sp) is spot on, really we seem unable to laugh at ourselves these days. A quick word at the time would have nipped all this trial-by-internet stuff. True the SCCM should have seen what was going on and been vibed into whether it had gone past pleasant horseplay or not depending on the customers mood, and reined it in as needed.

I dunno why some people get out of bed, it could be dangerous out there! Sprayed by a puddle, lose 50p down a hole in your pocket, forgot your hanky, forgot to get the coffee before turning on the pc etc etc etc. Life is full of horrors.

mind the wrinkles.

8-)

[rodrigooo]

Guess I am not as touchy or paranoid!!!! Good luck :\:\:\:\

[Mr Quite Happy]

First post rodrigooo, and an impressively unwise start to your PPRuNe career. Presumably, a Spanish village somewhere is now missing an idiot?

quality modding... you really know how to encourage new users huh...

[TightSlot]

Mr Quite Happy - I don't want, or appreciate guidance from you as to how best to moderate, promote or encourage - I already do it, for real: You don't. Should those positions be reversed in the future there can be little doubt that you will offer a significantly better service to users than I do. Until that happy day, I'd suggest that you snipe from rather better cover.

Since your reaction to the delightful rodrigooo's post was rather more knee-jerk than considered, let's take another look at what was said.


A reference for comparison to an ongoing tragedy involving murdered children is not only inappropriate factually but offensive to another user and in very poor taste.

There is no comparison possible whatsoever between an event in a bar/club and on an aircraft. The fact that rodrigooo is unable to distinguish between the different etiquette requirements is quite extraordinary.

Common sense suggests that a first post by a new user might possibly be one that takes a considered position, respecting the forum rules and other users. There is little evidence of any of that here.

Moving on to groundbum - when you report a post on PPRuNe it immediately goes to the forum moderator for inspection. I am the forum moderator. It therefore follows that I may be reluctant to take disciplinary action against myself, about my own post, as you would like to happen, purely because you have complained about me.

Maybe this is a good time to lay down a few ground rules for the kiddies.


This is a forum for adults - behave as one, or go elsewhere.
I moderate this forum in my spare time, for free and usually, as now, when very tired after flying. I do not have the time or patience for tedious games involving semantics, syllogisms or bone-headed stupidity. If you do not like the way this forum is modded then you should contact PPRuNe Admin, or Danny and complain, or, (the preferred option) simply don't come in here.
There are many users of this forum that have immense experience of flying as both passengers and crew, in all classes of travel. They have a right to browse this forum peacefully without having kids running around the aisles screaming (metaphorically speaking) all the time.
If you cannot accept that a passenger who has paid for an airline seat has an absolute right not to be sexually harassed by the operating crew, then you may take it as read that your views are so far out of whack with the concept of this forum, and reality, that you should really go elsewhere now.


Now I think that's pretty clear, both in tone and content. If it is not, then why not just ignore it and post something else in here that is really stupid. I can promise you a jolly good fight, with lots of blood - but maybe not in public, and you can only lose...

[Mr Quite Happy]

PM for you

[Atishoo]

Tight slot

This is the same poster as posted on a thread i posted saying all nervous passengers should be banned from airlines.

I think he's an all or nothing type of guy !!

I suppose its quite safe to post the stuff he does behind a computer screen. Personally i was incensed that he felt I should be banned from seeing the world if i was travelling by plane :ugh:

[TightSlot]

Atishoo - I know that you mean well, but as is sometimes the case, you are allowing emotion to obscure fact.
...Personally i was incensed that he felt I should be banned from seeing the world if i was travelling by plane..
Personally I was unable to locate that suggestion. The thread to which you refer (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=317235) is a discussion about the negative effects for large numbers of other passengers when one nervous passenger decides to voluntarily offload - and there is no dispute that the effects are negative. Your statements above are something of an emotive simplification of a complicated argument.
...This is the same poster as posted on a thread i posted saying all nervous passengers...
Thank you. I know this already, because I read every post in this forum - it sort of goes with the job. Telling the Teacher about somebody else being naughty in the playground isn't very grown-up behavior - No cookies for you in break time.








Are they putting something in the water today?


:ugh:

[SXB]

Patience, saint, of ....... wall, brick, banging head against.....

[Mr Quite Happy]

I'm having a quiet snigger back here behind me computer screen...