RAF Service to Airline Pilot..

[187nj]

G'day Sir's.

Can anyone give me some good advice on the chances of a career in the RAF helping towards getting me a job with an airline.

My situation is that I am 24, currently studying for my PPL, am deeply addicted to aviation and want nothing more than to fly for an airline by the time I am 30.

I have considered going into the RAF, maybe as an aircraft engineer but I don't want to waste time in the RAF. While I would like to be apart of the RAF and know I would enjoy military life, I would only do it if my chances of getting a job for an airline in the end were greater than me sticking out my job as an insurance broker.

Help please!

[Wodka]

Loads of them do it, and not all them were previous RAF pilots.

I'd say its a great idea - use the 6 years in the RAF to have a great time, learn loads of skills and SAVE cash by living in the mess etc so when you pop out the other end at 30 you have a big pile of cash waiting to cover your flight training costs!

Compared to a job in an office - no contest! Go for it...

[187nj]

Wodka.

That's very positive feed back and great help, thank you.

[Whirlygig]

Try posting your question in the military forum and compare the responses!

What if you don't make it through RAF pilot selection? What if you end up being a loadie? Unless you are 100% committed to the Armed Forces, they'll see right through you.

[preduk]

Personally... I think it's a waste of time.

You would be better off getting a full time/part time job and doing your training modular.

- You are going to do 6 years of RAF (maybe more)
- 2-3 Years of flight training
- Another year or so waiting for your first airline job (maybe less)

So basically...You have just wasted 9-10 years of your life trying to use a career path which isn't really benefiting you as well as you think it is.

Think what 9-10 years of flying in civi street could do for your career??

The selection process is hard, and if you don't have the self motivation that you WANT to be in the RAF you wont make it, especially if you are only using it as a spring board into another profession.

(not an airline pilot, just my opinion)

[Wodka]

Yeah but... if he is going to need / planning to take around 6 years to raise the cash, what's the difference? you might as well do something interesting with that time.

Ok, if he is planning on getting loans etc then this argument does not apply but in the current climate, loans & other finance may not be available or even desired...

[187nj]

Wodka,

Agree with you, loans are not available to me so I have to find another route and the average pay for an insurance broker is crap and will never fund my aviation career on a more professional level.

If I was an airline recruiter, I'd perfer someone with flying experience rather than someone who has done a stint in the RAF as an 'administrator' so I can't see that just being in the RAF will help. However, if the recruitee had 6 years maintaining fighter jets + had a PPL and ATPL theory I would seriously consider that person to be someone suitable for an airline pilots position.

What about if I did the RAF technician route and after the initial study got my head down into some serious ATPL study and came out at the other end with PPL, ATPL theory, 'X' amount of hours private flying and 6 years service as technician - I then did my ATPL training with all the extra ratings etc - would that be shinny enough for a airline recruiter?

Best.

[3Greens]

Whatever you do that isn't flying falls into the hobbies and interests category i'm afraid. Granted, it may enable you to give a few good examples of teamwork etc at interview, but as far as putting you significantly ahead of other candidates...no chance.
All that counts these days is flying time and it's many permutations and combinations. Generally speaking you want to be able to tickas many boxes that include multi-crew time, heavy/medium jet, turbo-prop etc...
Technician time will count for nowt.
Also if you are serious about airlines then the whole ethos revolves around seniority; basically get in as soon as you can as the number you get on day1 dictates your career for life with that carrier.
If iwere you i would't fanny around with the RAF, it's extremely competitive and they'll see right through you if you aren't 100% dedicated to THEM. Get that ATPL as soon as you can without putting yourself at seriois financial risk.

[Whirlygig]

An airliner recruiter is most likely to want a CPL/IR with ATPL theory, not a PPL and ATPL theory. No CPL/IR/ME, no job!

[preduk]

If you are going modular you don't need to pay the payments up front you can do a pay as you go approach.

If you had a job paying normal average wages, then you could finish your PPL, pay for the distance learning in about 2months worth of wages and hour build while you save up for the CPL licence.

The RAF is one career an airline pilot is another, it's not wise to use one of them to get into the other.

[MIKECR]

187nj,

sorry to burst the bubble but the bottom line is that when an airline(especially regional's) needs pilots they basically dig out the pile of 2000 cv's and start from the top. If you have a cpl/ir/mcc and lots of hours(and answer the phone!) and are ready to start a TR course THE NEXT DAY then you might just be in for a shout. Whether you are ex RAF, ex Navy, ex BT, ex Tesco's or National Rail, they dont really care. They need people who have all the ticks in the boxes and are willing to start the same day. If your not, then I guarantee somebody else will!

[A and C]

All employers look favourably on people who have been in the forces, it shows that the person will have picked up life skills that are not always avalable in civilan life.

However as some posts above have said it is not going to garantee you an airline job without the qualifications.

Only join the RAF if you want to do the job you are applying for. If you ultimate goal is airline pilot then aircraft engineering is a good place to start as it will put you ahead of the game later.

Once you are in the RAF and established in a trade join one of the RAF flying clubs, these clubs provide cheap flying training for service personel (I know of one club that provides a number of grants each year to help junior ranks to get a PPL).
These service flying culbs provide the flying at about half the normal civilian rate as they are run on a not for proffit basis so hour building and traininng are cheap.
As you come to the end of your time in the RAF you can get education grants that will go some way to pay for some (but not all) of your ATPL training.

It is not all a bed of roses I would think that doing the ATPL distance learning course in a slit trench in Afganistan when some one is lobbing morter rounds at you might well be distracting.

[Icanseeclearly]

Really there is no question what you should do.

try for the RAF (or RN), even as an engineer you will always have a chance to fly and the flying is out of this world no matter what aircraft you end up flying (low level, Night Vision Goggles, mainly VFR ops).

Airlines are great but hardly the most interesting flying

I should know I have done both, 12 years in the RN then the last 6 years in the airlines. Do you really want to do the same job for the next 40 years???

As for MIKECR's comment about employers not caring where you come from I'm afraid I have to rubbish the claim that coming from the forces makes no difference, all the ex RAF/RN/Army aircrew who want to fly will get a job within weeks or at worst months after leaving and nyone else from the forces will also be employed quickly, I have flown with Submariners, engineers, chefs, tank drivers and many other ex-military types. employers like the self discipline evident in most service leavers.

But remember the choice is yours.

[MIKECR]

Of course if you are ex FLIGHTCREW then you will undoubtedly get a job as soon as you walk in to civvy street. Thats not what the guy was asking though. He asked if it was possible do some sort of grouncrew techy type job and whether that would be an advantage to getting into an airline.

Myself and 2 friends happen to come from a certain 'disciplined' background as you put but but it hasnt made the slightest bit of difference when it comes to the front of the job queue. The vast majority of airlines want ticks in the boxes, loads of hours in the log book, and people who can start start straight away. Perhaps the bigger boys(your BA's, Easy, etc etc) will undoubtedly be more interested in your background but theyre not exactly first job material are they.

[Nozwaldo]

Having completed over 20 years as an aircraft engineer in the navy I can assure you that it is a good & well paid career. It undoubtedly helps with the ATPL theory exams and I would say give it a go, even if only for 6 years. Those people saying that you will waste your time are wrong and I agree with everything said by Icanseeclearly and A &C. There are learning credits available to service personnel that can also be used for part funding of your flying/groundschool in some cases. Whilst it isn't always great with time away from family there is always chance to do things that come free in the military but would cost £££'s in civvy street. If you can take the very rough with the smooth it is rewarding. Wether it helps with getting an airline job I can't say, ask me again in about 18 months! But it will look good on any CV and will set you aside from other similarly qualified applicants. All the best with your decision.

[preduk]

You can't possibly agree that the RAF will be more beneficial, it will take so much longer to achieve the exact same position.

Say you started your flight training this summer (as an example) and 3 years later you have just achieved your fATPL using a Modular course that you have been paying as you go. Most people on this forum have said they waited around a year for their first job, which means in between that you have been a flight instructor building up loads of hours.

So on the year 2011 you have your fATPL hours, your flight instructor Hours and the possibility of getting your first job within the next months. You then get into Easyjet (as another example) and your flying 600 hours per year until 2014 (by which time you would be leaving the air force) you would then have:

- 200 Hours in Training by the end of your fATPL training
- Flight Instructor hours
- 1200 hours from your airline job


OR

Join the RAF, come out in 6 years with your PPL (probably) and information on how to re-build a tornado. Have to start your flight training for 3 years which by this time your other career has a HUGE amount of hours still building.

As I said, if your dream is to become an airline job, go for that dream. If your dream is to join the air force join the air force, but don't use the RAF to get an airline job as you will be wasting time.

[Nozwaldo]

Preduk,
187nj has already said "loans are not available to me so I have to find another route and the average pay for an insurance broker is crap and will never fund my aviation career on a more professional level". I guess this means that like the rest of us he'll have to work for a living to fund the dream. Why not use the military to that end?

[preduk]

As I said, he could do it pay as you go.

If he joins the air force he isn't going to get a salary which you couldn't get in civi street. For example, an avionics engineer is on 16k a year after the first year. You could get that in an average job easily, you could do your flight training part time, for example the ATPL distance learning course which you wouldn't really need to save up for because they require 3 payments over a number of months for around £700 per payment.

[Nozwaldo]

You are right about being able to match the salary but hit the nail on the head with "average job". A career in the forces, even a short one, is anything but an average job (no I'm not trying to recruit!) which offers more than most jobs in civvy street. If it's a choice of remaining as an insurance broker or doing anything in the RAF, choose the RAF. It is only my opinion but one that is looking at it from the inside (RN not RAF)knowing how crap it can be at times, particularly during basic training and whilst spending endless hours cleaning things needlessly but it does get better and there are still good prospects for promotion. In the Fleet Air Arm (RN) from basic training to Leading Hand AET (20K+) can be as quick as 3-4 years, sometimes quicker.

[Timelord]

i think that you will find that you are already too old for selection for RAF pilot training. I do not think that service as anything ese will help your aspirations much, only money and hard work will do that. The RAF demands a lot these days and the only good reason for joining the RAF is that you want to join the RAF. If you try and use it simply as a stepping stone to other things you will probably not get past selection and even if you do you will be miserable. If you want to be an airline pilot go for that - don't waste yours and the RAF's time.

[ewsd02]

A short service Commission for aircrew is 12 years, 6 years for ground branches. If you go in as aircrew there will be a return of service period, not the full 12 years, but perhaps 8, you'd need to check that.

Clearly 8 years or so as an RAF Pilot would have the airlines snapping at your heals once you left. I would also think that any time in the RAF, even in a ground branch would make you more employable in the civilian aviation industry. You will have much experience working with and around aircraft, Flight Operations, will probably have operated in harsher conditions that most on operational deployments to the Middle East, you will have made decisions that most don't have to and will probably have good management and leadership experience that few get in their 20s.

So, if you can't afford civilian flying now and want to do something interesting for the next few years its worth looking into. Also, there are a number of RAF flying clubs that service people can use at a greatly reduced cost. Akrotiri for example is around £50/hr. At 24 you are on the limit for aircrew, but plenty of people have got in slightly older.

I wish you well with whatever you choose to do.

[187nj]

sorry guys I wasn't talking about becoming a RAF pilot. I don't have the qualifications sadly. I was looking for advice on become a aircraft technician and weather this would help me to get a job for an airline in the future.

Thanks for all the comments though.

Want pilot, be pilot!!

[Megaton]

I have several friends who have joined the RAF as technicians and subsequently gone on to airline careers; however, it is an extremely long-winded process. Furthermore, you are likely to be extremely dis-satisfied with the life as a techie if you actually want to be a pilot. Is it worth wasting several years of your life doing something in which you have little or no real interest? Finally, having a few years experience as an RAF technician will offer no real advantages when it comes to getting a first flying job.