OAT/NetJets Again

[BlueSky747]

Hi,

Is there anybody undergoing (or just finished) the OAT/NetJets programme and still able to sustain his/her family? 65k + interest rates makes a nice package to be paid back in 5-6 years.

[Adios]

BlueSky747,

I don't think any of them have finished yet. There is a pretty good explanation of the compensation package in OAT's own forum for NetJets. You are probably in best position to decide if what's left after taxes and loan payments is enough for you and your family to live on. My family could live quite comfortably on £30K net even if what we pay for housing were to rise by 50% from having to move to a NetJets Gateway City.

[hollingworthp]

Yes thanks - I'm 30, married with a mortgage and I'm doing fine thank you.

[Nichibei Aviation]

Quoting yourself, Hollingworth,

I found this:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif
12th July 2007, 20:11 #337 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3409037&postcount=337) hollingworthp (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=168319)
Over 150 posts! About time I clicked here (http://www.pprune.org/ptorder/ptorder.htm) and ordered a Personal Title.

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oxford
Posts: 176


I am one of the cadets & I am starting on the August course :)


Don't mean to be rude but seen the dates mentionned here and seen that you have to sit a 6 months theory course at Oxford before leaving for the USA, you haven't even started flying yet.
I see that you appreciate OAA for giving you a chance in the flying world, your 150+ posts related to NJE/OAA on this website do reflect that appreciation pretty well.

Wait till you finish training and start repaying your loan before announcing that you're doing fine.
The few hundred pounds you're paying for the accommodation at Oxford are peanuts compared to your loan repayments.

[hollingworthp]

I don't have a loan but thanks for the indepth interest in my career & finances.

[Nichibei Aviation]

If you paid for your training cash you are not in a position to respond to Bluesky747 's question and pretend to be doing well with the loan.

To Bluesky747: This scheme has been created exactly one year ago and no one has graduated from it yet as you can see here: http://www.oxfordairport.co.uk/news/netjets.htm

[clanger32]

However, whilst it is true that as yet none of the Netjets cadets have graduated, OAA(OAT) have put plenty of other graduates through, both "sponsored" and non sponsored, including those with £50 or £60k worth of debt, those with families, those who are single.

What is worth noting is that the Netjets scheme is perhaps more "friendly" in terms of how they pay their cadets and the increased ability that gives the cadets to re-pay any loan. Either way, if the integrated route is the way the original author wants to go and they are not in the same fortunate position as HollingworthP, then a loan is inevitable. Plenty of people before and plenty more after will survive with these loans. If you want to do the course, there is no way around it if you don't have the funds through your own means.

Nichibei, for whatever reason you've chosen to have a go at HollingworthP, I think it's inappropriate. Whilst he may not have a loan and therefore not be in a position to fully comment on the loan affordability, he IS supporting a mortgage and a family and he IS one of the fortunate NJE cadets. The loan doesn't start repayments until (6 months) after the course is finished for those that take it, so in some ways HollingworthP is in a worse position....I feel that this gives him the right to comment.

[Nichibei Aviation]

Clanger32, you can see it your way but you can see it another way.

For the 8 years following the start of the training, no "sponsored" student will afford to contract a mortgage loan for the simple and pure reason that they will not receive approval from any bank due to the high monthly repayments to the OAA/NJE scheme.
So yes, for 8 years (2years on training + 6years during the job) they will not be able to buy their own properties and will need to rent/stay at their parent's, let alone build their own families.

Plus, paying cash is saving him 64% of interests.

So I don't see how his situation is worse than regular students contracting a loan.

I'm not taking it up personally towards anyone, but giving wrong information to people seeking good information is simply unacceptable.

On a sidenote, I repeat again, we (NCB) do not compete with OAA as we do not offer JAA courses. We are concentrating on training Asian pilots.

The irony is that all European students we will receive this summer are coming for hour building, with most of them being graduates of expensive integrated courses desperate for hours and can't afford to pay more than needed due to their pending expensive loans.

[nick14]

My course is the 1st to hold the Netjets cadets, we graduate in september, currently in Arizona flying.

I myself am not a netjets cadet but my coursemates do not show or express any finance problems, nor do they forsee any imho.

The package they get seems to be quite attractive, best of luck to All 6 on AP275!!

It also means that there are 6 less guys on the market in september so more jobs for me :}

Nick

[Adios]

Am I all alone in thinking that establishing oneself in a career is usually a higher priority than getting a mortgage? For those to whom a mortgage is more important there are other career options, but if the aviation bug has bitten you, then go in with your eyes open knowing that the NetJets Cadet FOs can pay off their loan in 6 years while regular OAT students might take as long as 11. Who will be able to get a mortgage quicker then?

The difficulty here is every one is in different circumstances. I suspect some NetJets Cadets already have mortgages for example and are in a position to use their own property to secure their loan. Some may have spouses whose income contributes to the household finances. One size fits all advice, doesn't necessarily fit all, so take what you want from it.

[clanger32]

Nichibei,
I think you miss my point. The fact is, that if the OAA (or Cabair, FTE, CTC) route is a given individuals preference for training, then the cost is high. This cost is the same, regardless of whether you have a job offer, a la Netjets cadets, or whether you self sponsor and pray like hell there will be something for you fifteen months hence.

Therefore, given that regardless of the presence or absence of a job offer, the student in question will incur that debt it is clear that having A) a job offer on the table at the end of your training [all things being equal] B) Having some element of your salary paid 'tax free' (probably not completely true, but near enough) enables a more comfortable repayment than would otherwise be felt by someone who took a job with the same salary, but none of the tax breaks.

My point RE: HollingworthP is that during the 15 month duration of the course, his mortgage lender will require he continues to pay to keep the roof over his head. He needs to do this, whilst having no earnings due to being a full time student. This is certainly a troublesome conundrum. Those students who take a loan are able to defer the loan repayment until 6 months post course - thus, whilst this does incur interest, they are then at least trying to repay a loan from (hopefully) an income....surely an easier feat than from no income...

The point RE: any student not being able to get a mortgage is valid to some degree, but is independent of whether you have any job offer....it is simply the price of integrated flight training. As Adios says, one size fits all advice rarely fits all, or even most. Hence I felt your response to HollingworthP was disproportionate.

[Nichibei Aviation]

I understand what you're saying but thinking that Integrated is the only way to go is a strategical mistake that only rich and dreamers can afford to make.

You pay 65 000GBP.
The real cost for the training is like what: 25 000GBP maximum?

Every student signing up gives a present of 40 000GBP to the FTO.
Not a wonder that new schools pretending they are operating since 2 centuries pop up from nowhere, when self-sponsored training was an inexistent concept until 1998...

[clanger32]

Gah!

Again...RTFP....I specifically said "Either way, if the integrated route is the way the original author wants to go" followed in my second post by "if the OAA (or Cabair, FTE, CTC) route is a given individuals preference for training, then the cost is high"

Neither of these statements say, either actually or implied, that the integrated route is the only way. What they imply, is that the original author was looking for information related to the partly mentored/sponsored, integrated course run by OAA in conjunction with Netjets. Hence, my comments relate to the fact that if you WANT to do an integrated course, then the costs are well documented and unfortunately high. However the specific question was related to the affordability of the repayments. Whilst no-one on the NJE scheme has finished yet, plenty of self sponsored have finished with £50k debt, further plenty of cadets of other airlines have with £60k debt. As far as I'm aware, the repayments are achievable, although undoubtedly tight.

As to integrated being a strategic mistake, possibly - but that re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-opens the integrated vs Mod debate and I'm not going there.

[Adios]

The price difference between modular and integrated is well known, but N.A. misses the point again. NetJets doesn't offer a modular cadet programme. For those who apply and don't succeed, modular is a well known and valid way to go and there is a very lengthy thread on Pprune for debating which way is best.

If you want to nail down a conditional job offer before you start training, then you will most likely have to go integrated, whether it be CTC Wings, FTE, Cabair or OAT or just about anywhere else. The fact that the people it matters to most, the airlines offering the jobs, overwhelmingly choose integrated courses for their cadet programmes speaks volumes about what is important to them.

Where is BlueSky747 anyway? Why only 1 post? I wonder if he shares an IP address with N.A.

[hollingworthp]

The fact that the people it matters to most, the airlines offering the jobs, overwhelmingly choose integrated courses for their cadet programmes speaks volumes about what is important to them.


Lol - light blue touch paper and run, you have opened a big old can of worms there Adios ;)

[Adios]

I fear you may be right hollingworthp, but some people here like to eat worms. Guess we shouldn't feed the trolls.

[BlueSky747]

Thanks for answers to all of you.

I am just deciding which way to go. (Integrated/Modular).

Being from Slovakia and living in Vienna I can go for a modular ATPL in Czech Republic or Slovakia. If I even take one of the best (and most expensive) schools available it will cost less than 40k EUR. (PPL, IR, IR-MEP, CPL, ATPL, MCC, 200h).

BUT!!!!

I am already 35 and do have a family. So getting the job by airlines is questionable.
And it is important:
1. The OAT is well known in the airline world....
2. The job by NetJets seems to be quite fine.

[hollingworthp]

Bluesky - you could try applying for the NetJets scheme with OAT as your age is not a barrier with them.

As Slovakia is in the EU then that also is no barrier to entry.

As has been pointed out, there is a significant cost issue with OAT, however, if you can get onto the NJE scheme then you have solved the biggest problem you will ever get which is landing your first flying job so the upfront additional costs could outweigh the shorter term savings.

[captain_rossco]

The Netjets opportunity is an incredible one, and one with very real results at the end of it. Sure, the monsters it creates on the "Check me out I'm a Netjets cadet" may have certain people squinting with embarrassment, but never the less, it's one of the most assured schemes out there. Integrated modular has been discussed many, many times, you pays yer money.

Everyone has a story to tell, everyone can raise exceptions, whatever works for you. I'm a happy mod who's total time training will amount to about 10 months, good enough for me. There are a million factors as to ones choice, mine was, "lets get this done properly and lets get this done quickly", but for many with more time spare, Integrated works wonders, not to mention the rather handy finance options available (deferred payments etc).

If Netjets looks good for you, and you think you're up to the rather high mark, then get yourself up to OAA pronto!

[onwings]

would anyone know how much cadets in Bristow nigeria are paid and are they paid during sponsored training?:)

[hollingworthp]

I believe the requirement is degree-entry level education and also to have a maths & science qualification but I don't know to what level you need this. Having checked the FAQ section on the OAT site, you require 2 A-levels or equivalent in any subject so perhaps GCSE level maths & science is sufficient.

Contact OAT to confirm eligibility.