Morning of Feb 17,BA flight 072 flight crew

[Apache702]

They were flying over Europe and for a long..long.period of time they did not communicate with anybody, They finally got intercepted by a Fighter jet:O over Tchek.....or around there anyway. Let s guess.... :) zzzzzzzzzzzz:ok:

[fruitbat]

Or maybe a sleeping receiver....

[Hand Solo]

Well it wouldn't have been zzzzzzzz because the 777s pilot response warning would have woken them up long before a fighter got to them.

[Capn Bloggs]

the 777s pilot response warning would have woken them up
Does the 777 have a Dead-man's handle?

[Hand Solo]

No but it's known to have a couple of pan handles at that time of day.

[mkdar]

Hand solo

( Well it wouldn't have been zzzzzzzz because the 777s pilot response warning would have woken them up long before a fighter got to them. )

(No but it's known to have a couple of pan handles at that time of day. )

the interceptor fighter called them on guard and asked them if they had any radio problem, to which they answered : No.
he asked : is every thing OK ?
“hinting perhaps to see if they had been hijacked”,
yes , they said, every thing is fine.
Then he said : standby .
Moments later he told them they can proceed to destination.

If this does not mean they were fast asleep, then I have no idea what could it have possibly been.

So, what is the 777s pilot response warning ? and what is the pan handles ?
I don’t fly 777s you see. :confused:

[Hand Solo]

Mmmm something doesn't add up here. If the interceptor called them on guard, presumably from a position behind the aircraft initially as seems to be SOP, then the crew obviously heard. That means they must have had guard selected and operating, in which case they should have heard ATC calling on guard, assuming they did. I don't buy the idea that both crew were asleep for a long period of time. The pilot response warning system and the half-hourly call by the cabin crew would have prevented that. This is rather mysterious. Does anyone know which was the last sector to speak to them?

[av8tor94]

MKDAR

PILOT response system is a monitoring function of the aircraft's hardware. No interaction of either pilot with any of the hardware in the cockpit (generally speaking) will invoke the first level of "PILOT RESPONSE" including an EICAS msg saying same plus aurals. This increases in severity as time goes on until a pilot response is sensed. Radio transmit, FMC typing, fuel sustem switches etc... anything of that sort resets (so to speak) the pilot response monitoring system. I believe the threshold is 30 minutes for intiation.

Cheers

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<they should have heard ATC calling on guard, assuming they did. >>

Someone will no doubt correct me, but I'm pretty sure many ATC units do not have guard any more..

[Hotel Mode]

Even if ATC werent calling on guard other aircraft would have been. And if ATC had contacted BA they could have sent an ACARs or Satphoned. I'm not convinced an interception actually happened.

[Herod]

I could be wrong, but wouldn't the interceptor be using UHF (243.00) and the 777 be monitoring VHF (121.5)? I know it's a harmonic, but the chances of rception are slim. Or do the military carry VHF these days?

[Togalk]

A fighter that was sent up to intercept a civilian airliner would have a VHF radio. Also, I believe most ATC's use Guard. Well they seem to when I miss a frequency change at least.

[cwatters]

What's the least you have to do to cancel the response alarm?

[Hand Solo]

Press something.

[Apache702]

Either MEL...d...or they just pulled the fri..ck...in breaker so they could have a proper rest ;)
Cheers :p

[bill_s]

I heard this from a US reporter who was the only pax aboard a charter in northern Canada. The pax dosed off after takeoff, and awoke 30 min later to find both pilots snoring. When awakened, the FO said "...don't worry, we'll be awake for the landing." and went back to sleep. AFAIK, this story wasn't broadcast. Seeing how hard these guys work over long hours, I have a certain measure of sympathy.

My question is: Do Twin Otters sound an alarm if the AP disconnects, or do you have to wait for the sound of trees being chewed by props?

Another anecdote. I never witnessed this, but fellow employees did when riding jumpseat on our Seaboard DC-8F charters across the pond in the early 70s. No snoring was heard, but after leaving the NYC TCA, the Capt and FO would change into pajamas until the Old World was in sight. They reportedly didn't want to wrinkle their uniforms.

/bill_s

[mkdar]

Hand solo

BA072 has been called by ATC many times on the frequency, and on Guard, and asked other traffic to call them on Guard, another BA flight called them, a Lufthansa and a Qatar airways, on main freq and on guard . eventually, Praha said on Guard : BA072 if you do not answer in 4 minutes, you will be intercepted. Less than 4 minutes later, I heard the interceptor fighter calling him on Guard, only then BA072 replied.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, SOP states that the interceptor A/C will fly in close proximity on the left hand side where it can be seen by the intercepted A/C, and it will flash it’s lights at irregular pace.

Praha told BA072 on guard that he has been trying to reach him for ( many hours) , I can’t imagine how but, I followed his attempts for about 25 minutes.

I believe all the voice recording would still be saved by ATC units for a period of 15 days at least, some one might correct me here.

AV8tor94 , thanks for the clarification.

Heathrow Director
ATC units allover the world have Guard 121.50 , and all pilots allover the world are supposed to monitor it at all times, at least this is as far as I know

Herod
The intercepting fighter did call them on 121.5, I heard him


Now it remains a mystery to me, with the PILOT response system on 777s and having to monitor 121.5 , what has actually happened? I am not about blame here, I am about learning how can such a thing be prevented, I’m not immune to mistakes , I did my share and I expect them to happen as long as I fly, when you work you are bound to err .

[Dick Deadeye]

ATC units allover the world have Guard 121.50

Rubbish, listen to what someone who actually worked in ATC has told you.

all pilots allover the world are supposed to monitor it at all times

Rubbish, no such requirement.

at least this is as far as I know

You've demonstrated how much you know, now head off back to your flight sim.

[mkdar]

Dick Deadey , aside from your insults, here is some thing to read :


http://www.airsafety.com.au/why121p5.htm (http://www.airsafety.com.au/why121p5.htm)




For the most part we Australian pilots are not trained to do monitor 121.5 when flying en route, but there are powerful reasons why we should.

1. We are instantly available to another pilot who experiences an emergency in the air, or crashes but still has a working radio and calls on the International Distress Frequency. This is not merely good airmanship, it is responsible citizenship.

2. We can pick up ELT signals, so if another pilot crashes we can bring help to him. ELT signals are also picked up by satellites but hours can elapse before one of those satellites passes over the accident site, and if the ELT’s antenna was damaged in the crash the high-flying satellite may not be able to pick up the signal at all. Airmanship/citizenship again.

3. We can be contacted at any time. For example “Aircraft at position X, you are entering restricted area R123 and will be intercepted unless you make a 180 turn and leave the area forthwith.”

4. All airlines monitor 121.5 en route.

5. ICAO requires that all aircraft monitor 121.5 at all times in areas where ELTs must be carried (which includes the whole of Australia). See Annex 12, Vol 2, para 5.2.2.1.1.1,

6. ICAO recommends that all aircraft monitor 121.5 at all times to the extent possible – see para 5.2.2.1.1.3.
And


http://www.auf.asn.au/comms/microair_760.html (http://www.auf.asn.au/comms/microair_760.html)




However there is a requirement [AIP GEN 3.6 para 8] that pilots should monitor 121.5 MHz before engine start and after engine shutdown, to check for transmissions and to ensure that your own distress beacon (http://www.auf.asn.au/comms/safety.html#distress) is not activated.

do you want more ? I can come up with more after I get out of the sim.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Heathrow Director
ATC units allover the world have Guard 121.50 >>

Well, I would require convincing. When I worked at Heathrow Tower we had 121.5 but I'm almost certain that in Terminal Control we did not have it.

Can someone from Swanwick (TC and AC) confirm the current position? I recall we were told we didn't have it because the RAF were monitoring it.

[BOAC]

Rubbish, no such requirement. - while you may be grammatically correct, of more relevance is most operators view it as a matter of airmanship to monitor whenever possible. It certainly should be monitored over remote areas. BA used to have a requirement that whenever 'nothing was heard' for 20 minutes on a frequency the radio should be 'keyed' to protect against the 'sleeping receiver' (as opposed to the sleeping pilot:))

[nivsy]

Mmmm. Maybe all flights should be like United with Channel 9. Then the pax can tell cabin crew to wake the flight deck!:ok::ouch: