Leaving helicopter unatended?

[tegwin]

Whenever I fly anywhere and land (Off airfield) I am always extremly wary of leaving the helicopter unatended....If you fly somewhere for lunch, its usually a short walk from the landing site to the hotel/pub so you cant easily keep an eye out.

The two places I go are fairly remote but are very close to footpaths....

Obviously it would just take one idiot to either try and break into the heli and take stuff, or have a "fiddle" with some of the control linkages/engine cables etc...

It goes without saying that after leaving the helicopter unatended for any length of time I always do a full walk around, check that nothing has been tampered with.


But what does averyone else do about this? Those doing commercial opps, is it a risk you have to take?

I have often wondered about putting signs up on the windows with my mobile number so if people want to have a look at the helicopter they can call me and have a tour rather than just "help them selves"...


Its a difficult one, I think a portable HT electric fence with CCTV is the only answer:E

[John Eacott]

Problem solved Down Here: the Feds legislated a few years ago that it is an Offence punishable with death by hanging (or something similar) if a GA aircraft is left non-immobilised :rolleyes:

They even decreed that standard aircraft door locks are Not A Suitable Deterrent, and also that the immobilisation device must be visible from outside the aircraft := So if you have an aircraft cover (SOP in our climate) obscuring all the windows, you attach a sign to say that the aircraft is immobilised: much cheaper, and just as effective :ok:

This one isn't bad ;)

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/2017-1/Terroristwarning.jpg

[tegwin]

Isnt the aircraft imobile by deffinition as soon as I remove the ignition key?


(Edited to say: Can you use one of those security clamps designed for gear sticks around your cyclic?):eek:

[Flying Binghi]

Tegwin,

Step one - buy large vicious dog

step two - rarely feed dog

step three - chain dog to unattended helicopter

[Bravo73]

Those doing commercial opps, is it a risk you have to take?


If it's a commercial operation, then the options are quite simple. Either a) fly it somewhere safe or b) stay with the helicopter.

If it's a company aircraft on a company job, I can't really see any reason for the PIC to leave the aircraft unattended. It might be a little dull 'standing guard' but c'est la vie, I'm afraid.

[S76Heavy]

I agree with Bravo 73.

Can you really afford it to go wrong? Even minor damage by a dog, a child, whoever, will be very costly because you either have to arrange for a repair in situ or you miss it until airborne with potentially catastrophic results.

Plan your flights to park somewhere secure while you enjoy the action or bring a good book.

[heliski22]

Bravo 73 has it one - whether you like it or not, if you're being paid to fly it, you're being paid to mind it too! Overnight parking or other parking situations have to be considered in the preparation for the flight in the context of any risk of damage to the machine.

Private owners operating their own aircraft have to make the decision for themselves on a case by case basis. But the old rule "where there is a doubt, then there is no doubt" should apply in all cases.

[Martin Barclay]

I am aware of a case where a private owner left an R22 overnight outside the 'Old Course Hotel' at St Andrews and had considerable damage done by vandals overnight. His concern was that if the damage had been more subtle, more sabotage than vandalism, he could have missed it on the walkround.

Got quite a scare from that one and as a result very cautious myself.

[moosp]

Please forgive the geographical bias in this, and therefore the cost element, but in most of the places that we fly in Asia as private pilots, if we are going to leave the aircraft there for a lunch-ish period of time we might, rarely, consider arranging a security guard to watch over it. In this part of the world it only costs a small proportion of the fuel bill, but your costs may vary...

It is different from leaving your car in the restaurant car park. If some mongrel lets your tires down and you don't notice, then your stop and curse and sort it ten metres later. If same mongrel pulls a bit off the tail rotor drive and you don't notice, your are not going to pull into a garage after airborne to get it fixed...

Depends on the country and the area. In Hong Kong the social conscience of the average at risk teenager is delightfully strong, and vandalism is very rare.

So I guess look at your area and make your risk assessment. Pity really, years ago you could park your Tiger Moth for days and the only person who would touch it was the local Policeman.

[ericferret]

I remember being weathered in at Hayfield in Derbyshire with a Bell 47. We had a visit from the local police to tell us that the local children were using it as a climbing frame. Apparently the young ladies involved were enjoying swinging through the tail rotor guard!!!!

Going in to work one morning at Sywell we found a Bell 206 parked outside with the doors swinging in the wind and with the battery left on and flat.
Apparently the late night motel goers had been having a bit of fun.
Hangarage was available, but the operator was too mean to pay for it. Cost them a lost days revenue plus the cost of sending an engineer and battery.

Leaving any aircraft parked out is a risk even on an airfield.

[Dr Mark Cowley]

One of my ex students left his R22 parked at a very exclusive hotel overnight in southern England, only to look out of the window to see a group of drunken revellers seeing how many people could swing on the tail boom. Needless to say he then had to stay up the rest of the night to keep watch over it, which rather spoilt the ambience of the intimate night away with the less than impressed new girl friend.

[MartinCh]

to see a group of drunken revellers seeing how many people could swing on the tail boom

Well, small boys have small helos, big kids have 'big' helos.
Unfortunately, 'human condition' is such. Especially drink-related alteration to somehow decent behaviour gets bit too obvious on British Isles. English, Scottish, Irish, pretty much the same certain kind when drinking.

upmarket hotel? Well, money can buy cars, clothes, expensive stays, but it doesn't buy manners.

No easy way around this. One idea though.
The ones of you flying as a leisure activity, bring along male au-pair, nephew, neighbour's son to mind the helo while 'on business'. If they're young enough not to mind few hours alone or old enough to pretend they're the owner-pilot to passing-by girls, even better.

[206 jock]

There was an R22 overturned at Cranfield a few years back too.

One other problem that no amount of walking round will confirm...has one of the 'revellers' relieved himself (or herself) into your fuel tank? I know some turbines are renowned for running on low grade fuel, but recycled english Bitter might not be recommended...:8

[scooter boy]

The off-airport HLSs I regularly use when I fly to work are generally pretty quiet spots.
I do a preflight walk around and check that nobody has been loosening nuts and have been lucky so far.

Incidentally the only time I ever had anything stolen from an aircraft (fixed wing) it was parked inside a hangar at a licensed airfield!

I remember a few years ago seeing an ad for a device that involved laser beams and traffic cones placed around your machine and giving you an alert if the security cordon was breached.
Did anyone buy one?

SB

[tecpilot]

This is a academic question. In real life you will find each night hundreds of helicopters in the PPRuNe world unattented. Or what do you think? The business is allways near the customer, out in the green. The pilot is often alone. Fences and guards around their ships have only the plank drivers. And every night a security guard? :) Forget it.

I leaved helicopters unattended across europe, but not in UK ;) and the best situation i found was the day some teens having a big party in front of a real helicopter, with campfire, kissing and so on. Very friendly outcome allways. But a bad feeling stays.

[docstone]

Chaps/chapesses - anyone know or have experience of a device to leave in the ship overnight to detect and warn off nefarious intruders - thinking of a motion sensor, siren and link to a mobile phone via SMS for example, powered by internal battery?

[EN48]

I am thinking a pit bull might be cheaper and more effective.

EN48

[powerstall]

I am thinking a pit bull might be cheaper and more effective.


..I strongly agree with his idea... :E

anyway, where is the heli stored? hangar? outside? :confused:

[SASless]

I have an ex-wife that would make a Pit Bull envious.....she ain't cheap however....skinned me clean!:{

[docstone]

...but I fear hounds and ex-wives may not be too clever with the leather.

Usually hangered, thinking of when left outside say at a hotel overnight.

[InducedDrag]

Check out this..... It will call up to 3 numbers from a built in cell transmitter. Also have vibration sensor and gps transmitter.

http://www.dewalt.com/us/security/mobilelock/

[500e]

With the landing costs at some hotels, I would have thought that an armed guard was included:sad:

I have a rape alarm with the trigger that is operated by a thin string looped around door handles very loud and has deterred a curious geek I heard it 100Yds away at a sort of fly in.
There are all sorts of Phone operated alarms made for vehicles, costly but do have voltage free switching outputs.
If you are interested PM me:suspect:
Remember Cellphone cover is not universal.

[docstone]

Thanks all - for UK/European use so needs to be GSM, ideally battery powered so no wiring into the ship please

[Gaseous]

If you go GSM pick your network carefully. I have a t-mobile tracker/alarm which is next to useless at most of the places I go - maybe thats just the places I go though. I have an Orange mobile which has much better coverage.

[aeromys]

Don't know what your budget or requirements are, but the Sentor (http://www.strings-security.co.uk/displayprods.asp?qid=91&qdbquery=searchprodbycat&qtitle=Portable+Detection+Equipment) posts may be suitable?

[Flying Bull]

Hi,
if not multilangual - use the translationfunction of the web ;-)
i.e. http://www.yatego.com/spezialhandys/p,445a2739df527,442130394b4338_1,mobile-gsm-handy-alarmanlage-f%C3%BCr-haus-auto-boot
or
http://www.detektei-schutzdienst-shop.de/product_info.php?info=p615_xx.html
there are more out there in the www

Greetings Flying Bull

[ShyTorque]

Chaps/chapesses - anyone know or have experience of a device to leave in the ship overnight to detect and warn off nefarious intruders - thinking of a motion sensor, siren and link to a mobile phone via SMS for example, powered by internal battery?

Do you mean you don't sleep in the aircraft like the rest of us do? :confused:

[Whirlygig]

A python wrapped round the cyclic and collective should do the trick! :}

Cheers

Whirls

[ShyTorque]

Some of us have to fly like that....

[Whirlygig]

You mean you fly whilst wrapped around the collective and cyclic???

Cheers

Whirls

[docstone]

Thanks all - glad humour lives in these threads. I suspect there is a need for this sort of a product given no one has shown a product that seems to do the trick for aviators. Small, light, solid, easy to use and doesn't require being fed live mice whilst wrapped around the controls - PIR, siren to scare the living s**t out of anyone who comes looking for avionics, locking cable to wrap around something solid, strobe light, feeding bowl for the python perhaps, pillow on which to rest head......

[500e]

Bowl for python is a little excessive remember they only need to feed at infrequent intervals , and just my luck the we would feed the day before the low life made off with the avionics.
Doc
What was it your ex did with leather ?:E

[docstone]

Still the present Mrs Doc, we both know which side our bread is buttered

[mickjoebill]

On a South Africa trip recently we used a dual strand portable electric fence to keep the hyenas at bay from chewing our camera cables.

Powered by a small battery, a clever solution.
But it didn't stop monkeys crapping on the canopy, directly above the pilot seat!

I suspect that an electric fence would be a challenge rather than a deterant to the inebriated.


Mickjoebill

[normalbloke]

Was the battery not disconnected in the nose of the 206?

[Flying Bull]

You haven't translated
http://www.yatego.com/spezialhandys/p,445a2739df527,442130394b4338_1,mobile-gsm-handy-alarmanlage-f%C3%BCr-haus-auto-boot
have you?
checks for movements, external sensor possible, own battery, you can check bat-level and change levels of trigger and can listen in, what is going on.
Greetings flying Bull

For uk a little bit different i.e.
http://www.mobilarm.co.uk/prod.html
or look here
http://www.gsm-alarm.de/cms/index.php?id=5
or use google ;-)

[docstone]

Thanks, yes had found these...but they all look a bit sticky back plastic, last 3 weeks then let you down...or ill suited to sitting in a plane overnight

[Jackboot]

I must say that the lovely Nicky and I had a sleepless night at one of our favourite hotels - Eastwell Manor near Faversham, Kent - on a Saturday night a while back.

We were worried about the thing getting caught up in some drunken stupidity as the large wedding party progressed into the wee hours.

Not a bit of it though. Lots of drunken revelry ( how the hell do you spell that word?!) but nowhere near the flying machine.

This thread has provoked a great deal of thought about doing it again though. Might be worth asking a hotel if their security cameras cover the helipad and...ahem.. indicate that there will be a nice tip in the morning in return for extra special attention to the monitors.

Great thread.

Jack