Raf A2 "above Average"

[15thManofTain]

Do they still do an A2 exam at the end of QFI tours, and is everyone still coming out of training jobs "Above average?" Even creamies? Surely someone cannot be above average having only ever flown circuits and other trivia for 36 mths?????? Not to mention the quality of those front line pilots "selected" for QFI duties after the difficult/failed second tour......

What's going on?

Do QWI's have the same A2?

[L J R]

Got an axe to grind then Tain?

[Aeronut]

I'm appalled that 50% of instructors are actually below average!:}

[Yellow Sun]

I have always said that an A2 is a B1 having a run of luck. :)

On the other hand if you fail it a couple of times then that probably does say something about your ability.:}

YS

[BOAC]

.....and now, Tain, what would you like to know about 'A1'?

[Pontius Navigator]

If you start at B2, make B1 and then achieve A2 it follows you are above the average grade. It does not follow that 50% of the instructors are worse than you but, since it takes a year or more to reach A2 it does follow that there can be a significant number of instructors at grade B.

[jindabyne]

BOAC (and Tain)

I can vouch for the fact that, to become an A1 QFI, one must be supremely accomplished in all aspects of the role, be superior in all respects compared with all other instructors, be extremely good-looking, and possess exceptional fighter-pilot skills.

[BOAC]

OK - let me guess..............................:ugh:

[Roland Pulfrew]

15th

Why should a creamie not be above the average? Your assessment of ability is in the current role, not in someone elses role. I would not expect an A2 QFI to be assessed as above the average when he starts a new tour on a new aircraft, be that a FJ or ME type (same applies to QHIs and helos). Nor would I expect an above average GR pilot to be above the average on the Typhoon until he had some experience on type.

Surely someone cannot be above average having only ever flown circuits and other trivia for 36 mths

Yes they can - they are assessed as an above average QFI.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Definately sounding like there's an axe to grind somewhere here!

The A2 is usually the product of a very hard-working tour by an accomplished QFI. The issue I have is that it seems that now PMA (or whatever they're called this week) seem to expect all QFIs to finish their tour as an A2. If that's the case, then by definition, doesn't the A2 become 'average'

ManOfTain, your original post implies some bitterness towards QFIs for their achievements when, in career-terms, it can often be 3 yrs wasted as some front-line units seem not to recognise the skills acquired in that time. May you are that Boss? I can assure you that even if domestically it is about the most easy life you'll ever have, it is far from the easy option in the long run.

[Ali Barber]

QWIs don't use that grading system because there is no qualification above A1!!

[BEagle]

Jinda - I don't recall anyone matching that description!

Whilst being even an A2 QFI takes a lot of time and patience, as well as much assimilation of theoretical knowledge and the ability to impart instruction, all a QWI has to do is to learn how to work a cine projector and wave a scoring jobber around whilst yelling helpful comments such as "Out of range, out of range!", "Ride up, early pickle" etc etc.....:rolleyes:

How much training is needed to learn the chant "Same, pause, fire, recover!"

Haven't they also invented a new term for the old TWU Tactics Instructors - those who were on the staff but were neither QFI nor QWI?

[SirToppamHat]

Average?

OK, let's assign values to the grades - A1=1, A2=2, B1=3, B2=4.

Take all the grades of all the QFIs and add them up, then divide by the total number of QFIs; this will give you the mean. Above that = above mean , and below it = below mean . If the mean is 1.9, an A2 QFI is below mean compared to the whole population of QFIs, but he could, of course, be considered above mean when compared with other A2 QFIs! Someone who actually avoids flying, or any contact with students, may correctly be described as 'no mean QFI!', which might explain some of the promotions we have all seen over the years.

The Median is the middle value in order. In this example, the Median is 2.5. Even if the statistical mean is 1.9, an A2 instructor is an above Median instructor.

The other statistical value to look at is the Mode. This is the value that occurs with the highest frequency. So, if there are 30 QFIs in total, of which 10xB2, 9xB1, 7xA2 and 4xA1, then everyone who is B1 or above is an above Mode QFI.

In practice, all 3 statistical measures are described (particularly by the media) as average, depending on what point someone is trying to make. So there are lies, damned lies and ... you know the rest.

I'll get my coat ...

STH

[BANANASBANANAS]

I was a student at BFTS Cranwell 1981-83 and my primary instructor was an A1 creamie. He deserved it too - Hell - he got me through the course!:ok:

[db16]

MarkIX has it right - it took me 18 months to get to A2 on the Jet Provost in 1972, but I was never able to make the grade again. The forces have a grade of 'CA' (competent to instruct) for those in a new role. as I have twice; once on the Hawk and as, a civvy, on the Bulldog.db16

[BOAC]

Haven't they also invented a new term for the old TWU Tactics Instructors - those who were on the staff but were neither QFI nor QWI? - shags, shirley?

[Roland Pulfrew]

The forces have a grade of 'CA' (competent to instruct)

C to I, surely!!

[Gnd]

By definition (and exam requirements) an A2 is an above average instructor. With fellow A2's along side, s/he is the average in that group (unless A1 candidate). I am proud to have 'Average A2' in my log book, this means to me an above average, 'median', QHI/QFI. Still bloody hard work and many sad hours of ground school!!!!

[A2QFI]

The late Bruce Latton was a creamed off QFI and became an A1, on the Gnat, towards the end of his first tour at Valley circa 1965. Went on to be Commandant CFS I think.

[MrBunker]

Ah Bruce,

What an awesome instructor. Truly inspiring, a legend

[BackfromIraq]

Tain has become very conspicuous by his absence from the thread he started...

[wg13_dummy]

Gnd said;

By definition (and exam requirements) an A2 is an above average instructor. With fellow A2's along side, s/he is the average in that group (unless A1 candidate). I am proud to have 'Average A2' in my log book, this means to me an above average, 'median', QHI/QFI. Still bloody hard work and many sad hours of ground school!!!!


More than most for you, eh Gnd? :ok:



A2>= Advanced
B1< = Basic

To gain the A2 qualification, one is required to demonstrate 'Above Average' in all three parts of the examination; Mass Brief, Flying and ground school. Qed Above Average instructor. Pretty simple really.



Of course, one is only above average on the day. :}

[minigundiplomat]

What is the pay rise for A2/A1? I remember now, there isn't one.

[Roland Pulfrew]

What is the pay rise for A2/A1?

Only professional pride. :rolleyes: A bit like D, C, B & A Cats or LCR, CR, CR(A) & CR(S) or whatever it is this week!!

[Tiger_mate]

Can you get an AIP if on the PA spine for an A1/2 upgrade?

If so, there are pennies in it for you.

[grobace]

A bit of thread creep, no doubt, but Bruce Latton was certainly an extremely good instructor. I wasn't aware he had made A1 on his first tour - I was one of his first studes on the Gnat, so he was probably only a B2 or perhaps a B1 at the time. But he was every bit as good value as any of the more experienced staff. Of course, back then, I'm not sure I could really tell! Mind you, I remember him being peeved when he couldn't talk me into applying for Hunters, but that's another tale.

[maximo ping]

He was definitely Cmdt CFS in 1990, and was the QFI on trip 3 of my Multi Engine Cross Over on the Jetstream. An absolute gentleman, it was the first sortie I ever actually enjoyed wholeheartedly. Quite a revelation after 3 years in flying training...:D

[Uncle Ginsters]

Oops, I appear to have started a thread creep into basic statistical definitions -Not my point!
My original point was that if all QFIs are expected to be A2 standard by the end of their first tour, then in the field of QFIs, that degrades the A2. Why can't the powers that be accept that some people don't have either the intention or ability (or both) to reach the A2 standard. In any other flying tour, only the best would be expected to be Above the Average at the end of their first tour in that role.

Standing by to be corrected, good Sirs!

[Monty77]

WG13 has it right.

If you do anything long enough, you get pretty good at it. So after 2 years instructing, you are much better than the B2 you were. If you aren't, then you need to hold yourself up to the light. There are blokes who don't achieve A2 at the end of an instructional tour, despite having been single seat background. You may be a 4-ship lead, but that doesn't mean you'll be good at helping a young shaver through the sticky patch that most of us encounter at some point during our long road to whatever cockpit we end up in.
Horses for courses and all that.

[Halfwayback]

Took my CFS A2 in New Zealand whilst on exchange.

Luckily there was an ex-RAF CFS examiner that CFS authorised to examine me!

HWB

[L J R]

All Commonwealth CFS's are 'cross recognised'. RAF QFI = others from recognised CFS (CFS secret handshake) - And I dont mean CFS of Malawi...

[minigundiplomat]

All Commonwealth CFS's are 'cross recognised'.


Maybe. An aussie and an omani on my CFS course. The omani won the ground school trophy, just as well as his briefs were interesting, and in his second language.