Oxford (OAT) Skills Assessment

[geet88]

Hello all experienced veterans out there, My name is Tom and I have just filled out the OAT skills assesment form to get a place on one of the two day seminars. I have a rough Idea of what is going to happen and what I am required to know as regards maths, physics and hand eye co-ordination, but what I really want to know is what do I have to do to pass because it is more than just a case of proving that I am capable of preforming those tasks from what I'm lead to believe.
So I ask you, what do I need to do to pass? To aid with lerning the skills what I can I practice?
This is as for many people a life long dream, as is true for me. I already have some flying experience but for me it something more than a dream, I need to achieve and I need to get out of ruddy car sales.
So any help or advice is greatly recieved.
Thanks in advance:ok:
Tom

[PPRuNeUser0165]

You seem pretty clued up already tom. Basicly get your mental maths up to speed and swat up on the physics! The rest is up to you really m8, you will either have the aptitude or you won't. Sounds quite harsh but is just a fact of aviation training aswell as a prerequsite of OAT! If you look on the website m8 it give you alot of info about the assessment.
The best personal adive i can give is to enjoy it as there really aint nothing you can do about it! In the interview relax try to speak english, ( i decided to speak some sort of foreign languge, just comes out so easier said than done!). Definetly swat up on OAT and their mottos aswell as current happenings their!
Just enjoy it m8,
Keep it real!:ok::cool:
Tommy
ap282

[Adios]

Sheesh, if Tommy's masterful use of the English language in that post is any sign of the education level required by OAT, I'd say anyone with a pulse can get in so long as they can make a good show in the compass tests. It will be interesting to see if this changes once the JAA implements mandatory English testing as rumoured they might do. As well as trying to speak English, may I suggest learning to write it well too. CV preparation time is only about seven months away for your first draft m8!

[geet88]

Well thank you both and if anyone else has any input it would be greatly received! Tommy what does the G stand for? Also any specific areas and topics that need revision would be well noted by myself! But thank you and the keep the advice coming as you can never have too much.:D

[betty123]

Hi Tom, i'm looking to apply to OAT soon aswell and i feel exactly the same way as you, i think i'm mostly worried about the interview as i don't really know what made me want to become a pilot and i get really nervous in interviews. it sounds stupid but all i know is that i really want to do it and i really want to get in to college, so if you find out any more tips please let me know and if there is anyone else out there with any advice i would really appreciate it.
thanks
katie

ps. have you looked into buying a pack of aptitude tests to prepare?

[soviet bloc]

OAT selection, well it goes like this, have you got the money? are you willing to be lied to and mistreated for 18 months? if yes, you're in.

take a good look elsewhere

[norton2005]

Don't listen to that last post. He has no idea what he's on about.

[soviet bloc]

...oh you think so ! have you ever been there or are the Oxford Gestapo monitoring prune again

[norton2005]

Yes to the first, no to the second question. I just know enough people who have been there and they all had nothing but praise for the place, I'm sure the fact they all had jobs within a few months is just a coincidence :hmm:

[soviet bloc]

I'm glad your collegues got jobs however that is just a reflection of the market at the time, not of any effort to "place" graduates by the school as very little effort is made (contrary to their claims)

sadly all those who were there with me and are now in employment would not recommend the place to anyone.

All flight schools contain an element of spin, they are after all businesses but OAT's tactics and characteristics are downright shamefull, anyway glad I'm out of it never to return... except to look down at them from FL370 and be glad I made it in-spite of them

peace

[geet88]

OK well its a bit late as i have already paid the skills test fee and have been there couple of times! from what I saw of the place and from what current and ex students i have met have said, Oxford seems to be a very well run and helpful environment for which to learn and to progress onto bigger and better things from. Im lucky i have most of the money but If anything you say holds true then could you please recommend another such establishment with an aim of helping students getting a placement at the end of their course?
Regards
Tom

[hollingworthp]

Tom - you could look at Cabair, CTC or FTE.

[lc_aerobatics]

Do IPAS test in EPST website.

[norton2005]

I wouldn't bother with cabair. If you can get into CTC then go for it, you won't have better prospects for a job afterwards with any other FTO. But as competition for CTC is really tough, the next best options are Oxford and FTE. If you can afford it, go to one of these schools and you should be alrite.

[geet88]

I agree with Norton CTC is literally just down the road from me and i know that its bloody hard to get in as everyone wants in, also although you are almost guaranteed a job you have to start and stay as a cadet for a couple of years, however you do raise a good point in FTE I will make enquiries but will stick to oxford for now. Cheers
and keep the flow of advice coming people!

[Propellerhead]

Katie,

If you get nervous in interviews then do prepare for it beforehand. Feeling prepared will help you relax knowing you will give it your best shot. I recommend "Airline Pilot Interviews" by Irv Jasinski as a good book to read - take some of it with a pinch of salt as it is very American but there is some very good stuff in it. Get someone to perform a mock interview on you and try and anticipate the type of questions you are likely to be asked.

Remember you are being interviewed with a view to ultimately flying a jet with 150 people on it - hardly a nerve free experience the 1st time believe me!

[geet88]

Where can you purchase this book as any edge I can get is welcomed?
Also if anyone else has some advice please pipe up!

[betty123]

thanks propellerhead, every bit of advice is boosting my confidence at the moment. im just terrified of the whole thing. i really want to get into oxford and i just dont even know where to start with preperation. ive been practising on flight sim to help with hand - eye co-ordination and ive purchased some aptitude tests, apart from practising interview skills i dont know what else i can do. i think the one thing im stuck on is background knowledge and current events so anymore advice on how to help with that would be greatly appreciated! thanks again
katie

[norton2005]

Read flight international, that should do the trick.

[geet88]

Yeh read flight international i have every issue from the last two years!

[betty123]

by the way has anyone who has been posting messages in this thread actually done the skills assessment at oxford and got in? if so id love to know exactly what it entails and the type of questions you got asked in the interview. thanks
katie

[hollingworthp]

Katie,

You can't really expect to have it all handed to you on a plate - your training and career certainly won't be that easy:uhoh:.

If you search through the forums there is PLENTY of information to help you prepare.

Kind regards

Phil.

[Artie Fufkin]

Betty,

When I went through the assessment (about, blimey, 4 years ago now) we had compass tests, a group exercise, group discussion, interview & "sim check".

Compass test - if you did GCSE Maths and Physics and have mis spent your youth (like most pilot wannabes) playing Microsoft Flight Sim you won't have a problem with this.

The first group exercise involved being given a scenario of being marrooned on a desert island and deciding as a group how to prioritise what to do and prioritisation of equiptment salvage. Results then presented to assessors. Don't think they really care what you decide but how you interact with others.

Second group exercise was to build a bridge out of materials provided, part of which conducted in silence. Again, I suspect your ability to build the bridge to the specification required is irrelevent, how you work in the team is what's assessed.

Group discusson was around 2 topics, we were simply told a statement and then left to discuss it. Topic 1 was "With improvements in automation and GPWS, why does CFIT continue to dominate accident statistics". Topic 2 was surrounding a recent (in 2004) European Court ruling that affected Ryanair's subsidies to fly into a particular airport (I forget the details) and were asked to discuss how this court ruling would affect our future career prospects.

Interview - can't really remember too much about specific questions, but one thing that stands out was an unpleasant "good cop/bad cop" approach by the two interviewers. Not sure whether it was deliberate as I thought that had long been discreditted. Overall, a calm, understated confidence will get you through - no killer questions.

Sim check was very simple. The hardest it got was turns onto headings whilst descending to a certain altitude which would require rolling out and leveling off at the same time. We got a full pre sim brief that was aimed at assuming you had never seen a set of aircraft instruments before.

When I went through I asked about the pass/ fail rate and what the main reason for for failure was. They said the about 55 - 60% passed the compass tests and of those who got through the biggest reason for not getting all the way through was a little bit of imaturity/ lack of confidence which was especially evident in those fresh out of school.

Best of luck.

[betty123]

Artie, thanks for the advice with substance really appreciate it.
katie

[geet88]

Nice advice artie, cheers Mate

[Propellerhead]

Don't think anyone uses 'good cop, bad cop' routine anymore! Glad to say that's been assigned to the history books of interviewing techniques!

Read the papers! And Flight International for aviation news. Learn how the airlines work - read the General and Terms and Endearments boards. Look on airline's web sites for business plans etc.

[hellequin]

I actually got accepted into OAT yesterday with a provisional course start for July.
I started the assessment tests 3 months ago when i went for NETJETS, needless to say i didnt make it to Lisbon but OAT said they would consider me for the APPFO if I completed the last part which, for me was the simulator part. The last bit is usually an interview and debrief but NETJETS did it all weird!
Basically, I didnt pass with flying colours but reasonably average all the way through.


COMPASS tests- With these, invariably you are either good enough or you are not! So dont worry too much about them, as i found although practice can make you aware of what is expected-on the day nerves kick in and it is a different experience. It is actually a weird feeling because you kind of enjoy them?????!!!!!!! Dont put too much input into the controls or youll be "chasing the needle" so too say!


GROUP EXERCISE- we were dropped off in a desert and basically had to find a route to a destination-- the point is not to make the best route but to interact respectfully with your team to come up with a reasonable solution. I spoke a little too much and was overbearing to a couple of characters so beware. Be sure to say your part but dont overdo it and get others who are quiet involved.


INTERVIEWS- The interview situation is a nerve racking environment but resign yourself to the fact that you have to do it and try to relax as much as you can- Bachs Rescue Remedy from Boots seemed to help me?
You are in it to show what you know and do exactly that DO NOT comment on issues or anything that you know nothing about---it is very transparent! Be prepared to say "I do not know the answer" you will earn more respect for that answer than any other. They try to put you under pressure in situations- just accept it and try your best, possibly use the above answer?!


SIMULATOR- I did this yesterday and i was very nervous and passed with an average mark. The flying is reasonably easy. You will make a mistake and forget to do something but as long as you can realise your mistake and make a deliberate effort to correct the mistake then they will be happy. They throw in a couple of questions to test your capacity to think while doing something else my question was- what is 20% of 150. All i can say for that is learn your square routes and percentages.
I have a friend who just got on CTC and they asked him to to do the alphabet backwards from M, the square route of 40(he said around 6.5 and they accepted that) and the also asked him 4% of 8000. That was CTC so if you can do those in your head then you will sail through.


I hope this all helps, I have missed stuff but that is standard such as personal profiling.
Good luck and dont :yuk:

H

[alfapilot]

hi hellequin, tom n all, this is a slightly nerve racking time for me, i'm in the process of selling my company to undertake the course - probably/hopefully at OAT - big risk, need to get out of corporate hell and do, "something i've always wanted to......". Interviews, team building, people playing good cop/bad cop, trying to catch me out blah blah... had to put up with that cr*p for 10 years to get paid.
i'm a bit more concerned about the content of the COMPASS testing. Hand eye co-ordination i appreciate you have or don't, i've been trying to pin point the specific areas of maths & physics to cover prior to taking any tests. I don't want to be spoon fed, quite the opposite, it's been some time since i was in full time education so some familiarisation would be essential.
i've been practicing basic trig & algebra, plus the basics of percentages etc, aside from that & distance & force equations in physics what else should i be looking out for? also, any other areas i can practice/improve on?
thanks in advance

[geet88]

Hey i have just ordered on the advice of fellow ppruners the OAt media essential phyics and maths cd rom's of the oat media website, a friend who is also going for the assessment has got them and found them really useful. So try that. for hand eye again on the advice of others on here im just going to praqctice on flight sim although i dont have pedals!

[alfapilot]

thanks for that, i'll have a look this evening.

[geet88]

I must say I am very impresed with the level and quality of feedback I'm getting from this thread, however people whilst this advice is good I'd like to hear views and advice from as many people as possible becuase all help is welcomed by me and others in my situation, so please keep the advice coming as it is much apprechiated.
Many thanks
Tom

[hellequin]

i mucked up the maths by turning a blank on fraction conversions such as degrees centigrade to farenheit for example, the extent of the maths and physics can be revised on the GCSE Bitesize website.
H

[JONNY99]

PILAPT-Prep or cockpitweb software for hand eye coord especially

[geet88]

where can you buy these?

[matt16]

Hey there =)

I took the Skills Assesment back in June this year, and unfortunately i failed on the interview, and the teamwork skills. This is because i had literally just turned 17 years old, and as such when i was trying to engage in a group discussion with 5 other 20-24 year olds i found it extremely difficult and intimidating! So my advice in this context would be don't be afraid to make yourself heard, the worst thing you can do is say nothing at all, which is more or less what i did.

I cant remember what group discussion topics we had, all i remember is that i didn't really have a clue about them. Which is why i would also very strongly recommend you wise up on aviation knowledge and news before hand!

For my group activity we were tasked with building a skyscraper that could withstand the weight of a cup of water, 5 minutes of the building time had to be in silence, which was....interesting. Again because of my timidness here i failed to engage well enough and thus failed the assessment. One thing i remember us being told at the end was that we did not use the white board on the wall to help draw out our plans, so make sure you do that :)

My interview i found to be very tough. I was interviewed by an airline pilot and one of the women from OAT's admin center. They were nice people who made for a nice atmosphere, but that didn't stop me from being nervous, especially since it was literally the first real interview i've ever done in my life. I remember being asked questions like 'Give an example of something you have worked hard for in your life', and 'what do you see as your strongest qualities' etc. However i remember very specifically being asked in depth questions about the APP First Officer course, such as 'In what plane do you train in at Goodyear, and how many hours will you complete' So i would advise you to thoroughly learn every stage of the course and its details in depth. They could ask you for example, 'what is the main objective of the CRM' (Crew Resource Management) part of the course.

The COMPASS tests, i found to be much easier than expected, although i remember the memory test being a bit daft and poorly designed. All i did was a bit of mental arithmetic and basic physics brush over before hand. Long division and long multiplication would be good things to revise. Some of the aspects of the COMPASS tests are either skills you have, or don't have. For example hand-eye coordination.

Simulator assessment was good fun and quite easy for me, its one of those things you can either do or cant do. Although its very hard to tell at the time how well you've done. Remember they are NOT looking to see how pro you are at controlling a plane, they want to see how you IMPROVE over the assessment.

Another piece of advice i cant emphasize enough is - make friends with the other people on the assessment, they are going through the same thing as you. When i got to know the chaps on my assessment we went out to the pub on the first day, and had a superb time. It was great to talk to people in exactly the same situations and nervous states as you are, also making friends with them helps reduce some of the tension when doing group activities.

When i had my debrief, i was told that if i went away, went to university, got some more life experience, and came back to retake it, i would sail through it. i was told i had enormous potential, which made me feel extremely encouraged as i was basically being told i was too young at the time. So i am currently taking a National Diploma in Aerospace Engineering, and will hopefully take a degree after. Then return to retake the assessment. I am also taking a PPL in the meantime.

To conclude i actually had a fantastic time in the assessment, OAT is a superb establishment, i loved the staff, the students and the atmosphere there, and to some forum trolls who try to give the false impression that OAT is a corrupt and money hoarding establishment. That is quite frankly some of the most unfounded tripe i have ever read.

Regs.

Matt.

[Cliffk]

For the interview make sure you know the course, i.e. stages, tests, licences. Then know about the career you are hopefully going into, i.e. hours needed to unfreeze ATPL, hours need to be considered for captain, where do you expect to be in 10 years etc.
Don’t try to 'blag' your way through, the guy (or girl) sitting in front of you will be a current commercial pilot! and will see right through you.

[geet88]

Well has anyone else got anything to add, many thanks to all those how have participated so far.
Cheers
Tom:ok::D

[JONNY99]

PILAPT-prep and cockpitweb each have a website thats easy to find and you download it from a link they give you after paying.

[geet88]

Once again thank you for all your advice but if anyone else has something to add please pipe up.
many thanks guys
Tom:ok:

[4KBeta]

I think you should get more feedback from people that did PASS the assessment and ones that are slightly older.

No offence meant, but the couple of people above, you spent £200.00 on an assessment and didn't prepare for it...a bit silly?

I imagine you are young and didnt realise or just lazy.

[turbowhat]

Hi folks and good luck to every one going to the assessment.



I just finished at Oxford. All the advice previously given is good.
The only thing I can add is be yourself, putting on a show, or pretending to be who you think they want you to be won't work, and they'll see through it.



Good luck again.
:ok:

[flyingcamel]

Basically they've based their selection process on BA's. It's just a little..........easier. (I hope I'm not being unfair there.) Nice bunch of people though, and if you have problems you can always argue your case!

[alfapilot]

just been to OAT for day pre view of course etc. Really impressed with pretty much everything. They gave a very brief overview of the skills assessment aptitude tests, most of which (though terrifying me to varying degrees) seemed straight forward enough. There was one section which - though I'm sure was obvious - went STRAIGHT OVER MY HEAD!!!!!! Some clarification would be really gratefully recieved.

You are shown 3 instruments relating to direction, attitude & position and are given a choice of 4 diagrams to make a selection from (effectively a blue elongated cross with green arrow) which best suites the aircrafts....... position I guess. Do these diagrams have a name? Can I find them anywhere on the net to research and understand them? Evidently I am not an aviator but am determined to make a sucess of this. MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE
AP
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[David Horn]

Don't worry, it's explained thoroughly before you start the assessment. :-)

If you head over to this page, you'll find a video showing you the various bits of COMPASS.
http://www.epst.com/com/compas.html

If you skip through, you'll find the orientation one. The RBI points towards the big cross in the middle of the screen, and hopefully the compass and AI are self explanatory. The green arrow shows whether the plane is climbing or descending.

You have to work out which little airplane corresponds to the scenario shown in the instruments. In the example they have on their website, it's number (1).

It's descending, flying directly away from the beacon, and heading west.

[A380iscool]

Hello,

I have just booked on a two day OAT Skills assessment test on the 9th and 10th January. Has anybody been through this process and actually done the different tests? If so please can you explain what you had to do? Many Thanks

[Adios]

A380,

Try the search engine. There are tons of posts on Oat assessment. You could also start by reading pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

[betty123]

pages 1 and 2 explain the whole process in detail

[Finals19]

Sorry, but having read the last post, can I just clarify that OAT students are indeed studying for a CAA fATPL and not some kind of Top Gun elitist fast jet qualification?!!

Ironic really that everybody ends up with the same qualification at the end of the day (be you OAT, FTE, modular or integrated) The glory and prestige ultimately stops when you leave OAT and step out into THE REAL WORLD!

All I can say is don't be blinded by the OAT sales & marketing pitch. There are more economically viable ways to get oneself into the RHS of a jet. Some people here talk like its an extension of sixth form (which arguably it can be seen as - just go and look at the place!)

[Mimiben]

Oh well my dear, so why a finance and business diploma from Harvard is far more valuable than the same diploma in a little university of Oklahoma or why a degree from oxford is prefered to the same degree of an other university?
You can have you JAA exams with 75% but you can also have your JAA exams with 95%... and at the end the result is completely different. OAT is recognized by the largest companies as one of the best training school in europe. Ryanair recruits 50 students ths year because they know that with OAT graduated pilots the line training will be less than the average, and as every body knows Ryanair never wastes money.
With OAT you are trained to be an airline pilot, the standard is higher, and at the end you have a professional license but above all you are able to fly a 150 passengers machine interacting with a business environment.
Because our standards reflects the GECAT standards we are now part of the GECAT Flight academy and this is not a coincidence.
The training being refunded in 6 years ... adding the others 30 years of flight time as an airliner with the appropriate pay... it is a very good investment.
There is no shame to be in the best flight training in Europe!:ok:

[Mikey_Boy]

............................................................ ..............................

[bajadj]

I'm currently studying my atpl groundschool at oat, and i would like to take this opportunity to say to everyone reading this thread that not every student at oat is as outstandingly talented or as downright pompous as Katherine.


But then again I'm modular so what would i know.

[chris-squire]

Hi....

I can't really add to the OAT Assessment as I haven't done it but I am starting at Cabair in the new year and had to pass their assessment day at Cranfield so can add a bit on that.

This may or may not help but here goes....

MEET AND GREET

This happens at about 08.30-08.45 in the reception area. The building is fairly easy to find with the help of Tom Tom but would definitely recommend leaving yourself plenty of time to get there! Keren came out to introduce herself etc and then took us through to their offices where we were given a brief form to fill in and running order for the day and had a chance to ask any initial questions.

MATHS & PHYSICS ASSESSMENTS

These are multiple choice lasting about 90 mins EACH and are not exactly PHd level. However, don't take this as being easy either! There are some fairly easy questions and some really not so easy. Revision and Practice are the keys to getting through these aspects. Just think of them as a necessary evil and all will be fine!

LUNCH

They have a pretty modern cafeteria there serving decent food. Well recommended before embarking on PILAPT in the afternoon!

PILAPT

There's loads of feedback on this all over the web so won't bore you but I seriously recommend the PILAPT Prep software! It's only £20 of £30 and is the best revision I could have done! It gives you so much confidence when the instrcutions screen comes up and you already know exactly what you have to do.

The only thing that the software doens't prepare you for are the excercises which use the joystick. But as said many a time before, this isn't exactly difficult and particuarly if you're from the Nintendo and Flight Sim generation such as myself! :)

I know this sounds odd but I really enjoyed PILAPT (apart from shape recognition in clutter, that was bloody awful but I did enough to go through)

INTERVIEW

This was with Tim Sharland as Keren was busy in a meeting with the recruitment director from BA. (which gave me some confidence that BA obviously believe in them so why shouldn't I! I'm sure that will provolke some other comments)

I have seen some bad reports about Tim on here but I can only go from what I have seen....I found him to be a really decent guy. He told it as it is, gave me my resuts (passed) and gave me some good feedback on how I had done throughout the day overall. Also gave me some pointers on where I need to improve before I start ATPL's which was useful.

This stage of the process is the last bit and takes about 30 mins and you are free to go straight after.

Key Points of this being for anyone looking at assessments: -

Dress Smart
Try to relax
Revise your arse off for any part of the assessment that you can revise (i.e maths, physics and some parts of PILAPT)!!! Trust me, this will give you confidence!

Hope this helps someone guys. At the very least it will give you an idea of the Cabair Assessment compared to the OAT assessment in the same thread.

For furtehr details of any questions feel free to PM me.

Cheers

Chris :ok:

[chris-squire]

Well in response to your post Katherine....

I have my 5 Metre Front Crawl Puffin Badge!

I've studied economics in the past but haven't found it at all useful to this point. In fact...I'm currently an accountant but haven't found my forte for figures helping me apart from it giving me fairly sharp mental maths during the Cabair assessment.

:)

[Adios]

I call windup merchant on Katherine Alexandra.

Sadly, many seem to have fallen for it and are getting wound up.

Please don't feed the trolls folks, it only makes them live longer!

[chris-squire]

Good call Adios. :D

[Mikey_Boy]

.................................

[rick0]

Just to fill everyone in on PPRUNE, the illustrious Katherine Lee is the kind of student pilot i can imagine not engaging with many people on AP279. My image is of someone who may not tuck their shirt in all the time, have really long and untamed hair as well as never doing her tie up, an image not to be resembled as a professional pilot, of which combined with the level of maturity and honesty will find it an everest-sized challenge to join an airline. In addition maybe not performing at the top of the class in Test's, am i right???S/he's just trying to help - I found it useful - A LOT MORE than your TIME WASTING AND BANDWIDTH WASTING post. Bit OH NO.... you just couldn't NOT post the above ****e, could you?

[chris-squire]

Ok well this all seems to be getting a tad personal now. Calm down guys. This area of pprune is designed to discuss the problems we all encounter in acheiving our common goal.

I am not getting involved in this feud which clearly spans beyond the realms of pprune but to be fair Katherines tone is bound to piss a few people off Rick0!

That's the end of my comments on Katherine.....

Anyone got anything constructive to add about OAT or Cabair assessments then let the thread recommence.....

Cheers

The UN :)

[rick0]

Ok well this all seems to be getting a tad personal now. Calm down guys. This area of pprune is designed to discuss the problems we all encounter in acheiving our common goal.

I am not getting involved in this feud which clearly spans beyond the realms of pprune but to be fair Katherines tone is bound to piss a few people off Rick0!

That's the end of my comments on Katherine.....

Anyone got anything constructive to add about OAT or Cabair assessments then let the thread recommence.....

Cheers

The UN :)

Okay well perhaps I overeacted a bit... apologies! but its infuriorating when trying to get useful information whilst trawling threads and just coming up with endless arguments and general useless posts!

[3Greens]

When there is a slight slowdown in the amount of people prepared to shell out shed loads of cash for a fATPL OAT will soon ditch the assesment in favour of relieving absolutley anyone who is able to find £70,000.
At the moment they can afforfd to be slightly picky, however, in the early 90s' it was only the Algerian airforce students that kept the place afloat.
Katherine, whilst you no doubt mean well, i suggest you tone it down a touch when it comes to airline interviews - don't be fooled by the Oxford bull****, they tell you any old pony to get your cash.

[Bennycookie]

Ok some useful information. Despite what has been said above you really don't have to be good to get in to OAT. I am a very average individual with average grades, average achievements and below average English languages skills so I am living proof that you don’t have to be god or even goddess of the universe to become an airline pilot.
To put it another way most people pass or at least get asked back to re-sit one section so it can’t be that bad.

Once you get here, which you will, the work is hard but also a lot more fun than studying at school and college. You wear uniform, which makes you feel more professional, and most of us even take pride in it.

As Mikey_Boy said join facebook groups and stuff and look at the OAT forum. You find some nice people on there who will give you their msn and tell you all you want to know. Join the AP279 facebook group. There are loads of pictures on there and if you ask questions about assessment people will get back to you, just ignore any comments from anyone talking out their behind but most of us talk sense so don’t worry.

Good luck

[chris-squire]

I think they're all good at pedalling their product. It's a personal choice when it comes down to the FTO and type of course that you choose. Personally I'm still convinced that Cabair AES is the way forward.

It is kind of funny how everyone comes out with the same licence but different people are prepared to pay more or less for the contacts that the FTO has. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the quality of training at OAT is good but form what I've heard from friends outside of pprune, it ain't actually any better than many other FTO's. Just the contact list at the end!

[Yahweh]

That contact list can be worth its weight in gold when it comes to finding your first job :cool:

[bajadj]

and which airline have most of oats graduates ended up at this year????

ryanair.

do you need oxfords help to get into ryanair???

no.

i'm not oxford bashing..I'm actually training at oxford right now, but some of the bollocks that is spouted by the pro's and anti's is just silly.

is oat a good fto... you bet it is.

is it the best value fto... you bet it isn't.

[clanger32]

Ok, I too am at OAT. One of the BIG problems that OAT suffers from is that so much Sh1.... is spouted about it, both pros and cons, on an almost constant basis. The best bit of advice here as far as I'm concerned seems to be Bajadjs comments. The school is excellent. If you put the work in, I'm sure you'll reap the rewards, however what people who criticise the organisation [in particular, the excellent marketing materials] forget is that it IS a commercial organisation. It's entire purpose in life is to provide the best return on capital that it can for it's parent organisation. Remember, NO airline operates on the basis of providing YOU a job, or ferrying passengers from A to B...the purpose is to turn a buck.

Anyone, ANYONE, who thinks that OAT, Cabair, FTE, SFC, Bristol, Orlando and all the rest are out primarily to train students is a fool. ALL of these organisations prime goal is to remain in business and turn a profit...training people is the means by which they do this.

Secondly, the whole thing about Katherine's post. I suspect the intention was good, but the wording was terriblly naive. For what it's worth, however, every single organisation will have people who are harder (and find it harder) to get along with than others. Every organisation will have people who are more opinionated than others. Every organisation will have people who don't quite live on the right planet.

OAT suffers from the perception that all who go there are the same as the image put across by a few posters, such as the post by Katherine [which I suspect is just poorly worded]. That is not the case. There is a huge range of personalities, backgrounds, maturities and so on. For anyone who wants to know about the place, go and have a look. For my money, it's incredibly professional and there are some cracking people there.

Finally...on the subject of assessment...WHY, WHY, WHY do people want to know to minutiae levels what it entails. The point of the assessment is to stop you wasting >£60k of YOUR money if you don't have the propensity to do it. I understand not wanting to fail the assessment, but frankly I'd rather fail than pass it because I'd been told exactly what I needed to do and then find myself £60k in debt with no chance of a job. Some of it is fair, but come on guys, it IS actually there for your benefit...

[chris-squire]

Clanger 32 - Best post I've read in ages!

There are far too many people on here trying to find out exactly what the assessments and medicals are all about and I agree with you 50% in that I had to find out the hard way by just revising what I could and praying that my natural aptitude was enough to get my through the rest not really knowing what to expect or how well I would do.

But the other 50% thinks.....the horrible feeling when your sat there waiting for PILAPT to start knowing that this could be the test that decided the next few years (or more) of your life isn't great. So on that basis I would like to at least try to help people know what to expect. Anyone can sit here and sprawl out a load of detailed info about the assessments but biggest part of the assessment is the one part that no-one can help you with!

When all's said and done these assessments are in place for a reason and I do support them whatever their critics may say. More people are needlessly in debt than ever and if these test help to ease that a bit then good on HSBC for enforcing it!

:)

[captainjohno]

I completely agree with clanger and chris, very sensible posts. Half of everything is luck, the other half is what YOU put in to it. The sooner people wake up to the real world and realise this the better.That dream job is not going to float its way over to you, you are going to have to chase it and work very hard to get into that cockpit.

[chris-squire]

I think that anyone prepared to put in the work deserves success but there seem to be far too many people around who just expect it on a plate. I've found this particuarly true with Uni grads. And before anyone shoots me down I AM speaking from experience here. The number of people that I've interviewed with a degree in Accountancy that expect a to start tomorrow on £30k plus benefits etc is unbelievable.

Im expecting nothing less than a long, uphill struggle to my first RHS. But f**k me will it be worth it!!! :ok:

[Joffyh]

I was reading through the forum and started getting a little annoyed with all the crap which seems to come out about OAT, was a relief to see the comments made by the likes of Clanger32 and chris-squire.

When there is a slight slowdown in the amount of people prepared to shell out shed loads of cash for a fATPL OAT will soon ditch the assesment in favour of relieving absolutley anyone who is able to find £70,000.
At the moment they can afforfd to be slightly picky, however, in the early 90s' it was only the Algerian airforce students that kept the place afloat.
Katherine, whilst you no doubt mean well, i suggest you tone it down a touch when it comes to airline interviews - don't be fooled by the Oxford bull****, they tell you any old pony to get your cash.They actually brought the assessment in soon after September 11 2001, anyone who knows anything will know that was a major downer. OAT have admitted that before 11/09/01 if you had a credit card available then they'd take you without question. The assessment was introduced to ensure that airlines can minimise their risk when recruiting low hour pilots and it works! Can you think of a single integrated course where you can get on it without taking an assessment!?!?! When there is a downturn in the industry those who will suffer AT FIRST are the low-hour pilots who haven't taken an assessment because of the increased risk to airlines from recruiting these pilots.

[chris-squire]

Yeah it will be the low hour pilots that get hit first. And unfortunately that will include me should anything bad happen in the next 3 years or so! :uhoh:

Its not just integrated courses that now require assessments for funding. To get any funding through HSBC you now have to do a recognised assessment and train at one of their two recognised schools (Cabair or OAT). After passing my asessment etc I had the choice of which way to go and ended up going for structured Mod (Airline Entry Scheme, formerly Pathfinder) through Cabair in the end, but thats bye the bye.

As said earlier, I can't comment on OAT as I don't know too much about them and whilst I'm sure they have their flaws, so does every other FTO. That's where the personal choice bit comes in weighing up what suits YOU best.

As a bit of news..... HSBC have just agreed to fully support Cabair Modular Training via HSBC Bournemouth. I don't know the in's and out's but it's a positive sign. I've got a funny feeling that they may now recognise Compass as an acceptable form of assessment as opposed to only PILAPT etc at present.

CS :ok:

[Katherine Alexandra]

Eek...slightly concerned about whether I should reappear again here!

All I was trying to get across was that the be-all and end-all is not maths and physics etc., you don't need to be amazing at anything to get in to OAT (or anywhere else for that matter). I know well enough that there's no guarantee of getting a job anywhere regardless of where you train in reality. Enough of my friends have CPL/IRs and are doing things that are anything but related to aviation. Saying that, one's just got a job after 18 months or so in the CTC holding pool, so there's hope yet :)

In hindsight, it was a somewhat badly worded comment and all I can attempt to do is blame JAA revision!

(On the note of the one personal comment that's since been deleted, it was a little harsh but, on a lighter note, maybe it's just me but I didn't know that long hair was such a bad thing!?)

[geet88]

wow my original question has turned into quite a little page turner, controvesy, bitching and in also lots of very useful information in there, i have but a month to go until i take my assesment and find out if I am good enough or am relegated to selling cars for the rest of my life, sorry i who am i kidding I couldnt sells cars forever, one way or another i will fly for a living.
However i would like to thank you all for your comments and advice and do take it all in however i agree with likes of chris, im not about to waste all that money so it is with many long days at work and long nights with all the software i could possibly buy to help me revise and prepare, that i pray to what ever god there is that i get in, So thank you all for advice and if there is anything left to add please feel free to comment because all information is useful, although as has been said it all comes down to me. a quick note on the facebook group, how do i join this group, i am already on facebook but cant seem to find this group.
Thank You all and Merry Christmas
Kind regards
Tom

[k77]

Getting through the OAT is one thing. Getting through the immense work load, dedication and commitment one has, flying is so glamorized these days, what happened to just wanting to sit behind at 747-400, just before the flare and twitching to put those spoilers up?

OAT Skills Assessment should be prepared for like anything, but its one step on the ladder of many. So many people get in, get out OK and in debt and still have trouble finding employment, suppose the airline wants to do a credit check? :{

And OAT never mentions Type Rating / Line Training.

Nonetheless, there are many good talented Pilots out there, OAT is one route. Patience and hard work IMO is a different route. Trust me, I have just about managed to cover my student loan, at 21, just about to get out of debt I feel incredibly grateful. But to then step back in the deep end with 80k :D

Peace everyone

[Propellerhead]

Don't think airlines are allowed to do credit checks on applicants! And anyway, an 80k loan doesn't give you adverse credit, only if you default on it.

[geet88]

Well once again thanks for the advice, it less than a week to go for know and i think im as prepare as can be, it comes down to the day now. thanks all

[egrayton]

hi
i did my skills assessment in may last year and i failed my compass test (by 2 marks) and my group exercises and now i've booked to re-take the two test in a couple of weeks time

i just have a couple questions

first can you tell me if the physics exam is part of the compass test or if its a different test
because this is what i found on the compass test website:
Control A compensation task looking at basic hand / foot / eye co-ordination. Slalom A tracking task looking at hand / eye co-ordination. Mathematics A test of basic applied mathematical understanding and speed. Memory Accuracy of short-term memory recall and ability to 'chunk’ information. Task Manager A test of the candidate’s ability to scan the screen and manage two concurrent tasks accurately and quickly. Orientation Instrument interpretation, comprehension and spatial orientation
and as you can see there is no mention of the physics exam so that led me to believe that i wont have to do the physics test in my re-take

is there topics i should revise for the maths (physics?) test
currently im going through the OAT maths and physics CD's but i remember those cd's not being as useful, so thats why i'm looking at the GCSE bitesize website as well

also some people i have talked to have actually had the exact same maths questions as me has anybody here noticed that?

in the group exercises if i dont know much about the topic they want me to talk about what exactly should i do?
ie. should i ask them to explain the subject or ask them to change the subject?
(i'm reading aviation news on the internet and watching the news everyday is this enough?)

can people who have done their test give examples of topics they have been asked to discuss?
also will there be any major differences when i do my group exercises for the second time ie. different topics (most people i've spoken to have done the walking through the desert exercise and build a bridge to support a cup of water)

what other exercises can i expect?

hope you can help
advice will be appreciated

thanks

[hollingworthp]

The tests won't have changed since last time you did them so you should have enough clues already on what to prepare for.

[egrayton]

i know the tests wont have changed but i just want to know the subjects of the topics that people have discussed recently (group discussion (general news and aviation news))

i'd still like to know what people do during the group exercise when the observer wants you to discuss a topic you dont know much about

also i cant remember if the physics test is actually part of the compass test, thats why i am looking for confirmation
(im not sure but i think only the mental maths questions are in the compass test and the physics question are not part of compass)
then i dont really need to revise for the physics test and can just focus on the maths

[nickmanl]

They will more than likely look for you to have an opinion on something which is currently in the news and topical. Therefore, something along the lines of global warming and the impacts of airlines etc or whether it is morally right for a business executive to fly a private jet over scheduled flights.

As the subject is topical you really should know a little bit about it, otherwise it may come across that you are not particularly interested in the wider aviation world. Just keep up to date with aviation news and debates on forums and news websites and I'm sure you will be fine. If you do however become unstuck listen to what some of the others are saying and just show you can reason with what they are saying and come to your own conclusion from the information they may be telling you!

Just don't sit there like a plum in silence and show you have the ability to offer opinions whilst being able to accept the views of the others whilst drawing your own conclusions. Basically just show you can be a team player whilst being able to work independently!

[egrayton]

thanks
basically i searched for aviation news on google and im reading those sites
can you recommend some aviation news related sites as well?
thanks for the advice nick

but i still cant find anything on there being a physics test on the compass
all i have done so far is go through the maths and physics bits on the bitesize website

the maths test is basically multiply, divide, add, subtract, percentages and speed distance calculations (i cant rememeber if there were fractions) so if thats what all the questions will be about then i'll be fine

the only thing i'm still concerned about is the physics exam (i dont even know if it will be included in the compass test)
can someone give me topics to revise incase i have to do the physics test?

and i went on the OAT website but i seems to be down (at the moment of writing this post)

[oli4]

Hi, i haven't taken the test but i am taking it next tues+wed.
I think the best thing you can do is either.... prepare for the worst and expect the best so just study the physics i'm sure it won't hurt to know it as physics and maths are interlinked.
or contact Nick mylne at oxford he's the head of skills assesments and just ask him, you could've saved a lot of time by just calling and asking. they're really helpful
a good aviation news site is www.abtn.co.uk (http://www.abtn.co.uk)
good luck.
Oli

[egrayton]

thanks oli
so i take it your assessment is on the 13th and 14th
as i said in another thread i know someone who will be doing their assmenet on those dates.

your group exercise on the 14th right?
maybe you will see him there
do you know how many are going to be doing the assessment on those days?

also how are you revising for the compass test especially for the maths and physics exam?
has anyone told you the type of question you can expect?

[oli4]

Hi
No i'm taking it Next week the 19the and 20th. and i have no idea how many people as i have posted on here and on ask.oxford forums but no reply.
goodluck
Oli

[egrayton]

ok no problem

can you just tell me what you are revising concerning the maths and physics exam?

[oli4]

i e-mailed nick mlyne and he sent me a revision list which is quite worrying. i'm just glad i've had it for ages. :ugh::ugh::ugh::8:\:eek: feel sick yet? i do lol.

PRE – APP STUDY GUIDE

A basic understanding of the following topics to GCSE grade ‘C’ standard prior to attending the APP Course is strongly recommended.


MATHS

Algebraic Substitution
Simple equations
Subject of the formulae
Factorisation
Expand and simplify
Indices
Functions
The line
Travel graph
Numbers
Percentages
Areas and volumes
Pythagoras theory and trigonometry
Problems in bearings
Geometric terms
The circle
Vectors
Practice Mental Maths !!

PHYSICS

Mechanics

Work and power
Energy
Potential and kinetic
Input and output energy
Pressure - solid liquids and atmospheric
Principles of Hydraulics
Gears and cogs
Linear motion equations
Gradient
Distance time graph - Velocity time graphs
Force and momentum
Resultant force
Newton's Law
Forces
Mass, weight and density
Vectors and scalars
Center of gravity (moments and balance)
The turning effect of forces
The law of moments: levers
Parallel forces in equilibrium
Couples
Principles of gyros
Principles of piston and turbo jet engines
The Otto cycle (engines)
(You must be familiar with both Imperial and Metric units and be able to convert one to the other)

Sound

Longitudinal waves
Sound waves
Stationary waves

Optics

Sources and reflectors of light
Magnification
Reflection Laws
Refraction
Convex and concave
Magnifying glass
Dispersion

Heat

Heat and temperature
Internal energy
Temp scales: including Kelvin and converting temperature from one scale to another
Heating and cooling curves
Melting
Boiling
Evaporation
Gas pressure
Pressure and temperature of a gas
Volume and temperature of a gas
Volume and pressure of a gas
Expansion on matter
Heat transmission: - Conduction - Convection and radiation
Boyles, Charles and the General Gas Laws

Magnetism (Ideally you should understand the following but it is not essential)

Magnets
Theory of magnetism
Magnetic fields and neutral points
Magnetic effect of current through wire - coil and solenoid
Electromagnetic
Motor effect of current through a wire
The simple D.c motor
Electromagnetic induction in a straight wire - solenoid
Transformers
The transmission of electrical power
Fields and rule

Current electricity (Ideally you should understand the following but it is not essential)

Circuit components and diagram
Electric circuits
Potential Difference
Electrical resistance
Ohms law
Series parallel and mixed circuits
Heating effect of an electric current
Electrical power
Direct current and alternating current
The live, neutral and earth wires
Circuit Breakers, fuses and switches
Principles of electric generators

General

General outline of metals and materials commonly used in aircraft
The principles of aerodynamic lift
Cloud formation and general principles of meteorology
Confidence in handling numbers and ability in mental arithmetic

[egrayton]

wow thats a lot

when did you e-mail him, because i e-mailed about 40 minutes ago and have not got a reply yet

i think most of this stuff is on the GCSE syllabus so i think its better to just keep revising off the bitesize website

[oli4]

i e-mailed before christmas i've been revising for ages but have forgotten what i revised first lol. i have covered most of it except parts which i feel have no relevance to flying if u know what i mean.
there is loads on this list that isn't on bitesize though just so u know.
good luck
oli

[egrayton]

isnt't the physics test at the assessment a multiple choice questionaire

[oli4]

i don;t know i haven't taken it but i am suprised you past the memory test. hehe.
anyway back to my studying!
Oli

[egrayton]

i know you havent done the assessment yet i was just asking people who have if the physics test is multiple choice

anyway i nearly got a perfect score for my memory test, which even surprised me

i only failed because i misunderstood the orientation part of the test and as i said i only failed compass by 2 marks.

i think they would have let me join OAT if i had passed my group exercises

i wonder if they will let me join (even if i fail my test) if i give them all the money as a one time payment and signed a contract to not sue them if i fail, because i think one of the reasons they have the assessment is that if the student fails they have to pay something in the region of £35,000 back

[egrayton]

i would like to know how much it would cost and how long it would take to go from oxford station to OAT by taxi and how far is it from the station to OAT (is it possible to get a taxi from station?)

also can you actually get a bus from the station to OAT and how long would the journey take?

[oli4]

how'd your test go?

[Sierraindia]

Anyone taking the skills assessment at oxford on 3rd and 4th march let me know and we can hook up for a beer. Its obviously a good idea to get to know others in the group, and remember, we are all in the same boat!:ok:

[Joffyh]

Egrayton, a friend of mine went for assessment a couple of weeks ago. He said that the Physics paper isn't part of the Compass test, it's a separate one done by OAT and it's 15 multiple choice questions.

Oli with regards to the list provided, that's the content recommended for those who are going to start the APP course and have passed the assessment...is that correct? That's my understanding of it. I appreciate there are elements of it that will be in the assessment (I've revised most of it anyway and like you have forgotten the first things I did!).

[egrayton]

thanks joff
i was curious about the physics test being in the compass thats why i asked

anyway can anyone answer my travel questions?

' i would like to know how much it would cost and how long it would take to go from oxford station to OAT by taxi and how far is it from the station to OAT (is it possible to get a taxi from station?)

also can you actually get a bus from the station to OAT and how long would the journey take?'

[Potential]

You can get a bus from the centre of Oxford (I think it might have been called Magdalen Street), which is about a 10 min walk from the train station. I can't remember the bus number now, but I just asked one of the other bus drivers when I was there. From memory it took about 30 mins and stopped right outside the airport.

You could get a taxi, but I think it would cost around £20.

You could ask about transport on the OAA forum, you might get a better answer from one of the current students.

[egrayton]

cheers potential
as i remember from last time i think you can get a taxi from outside the train station
unless i'm mistaken?

also i've been reading aviation related news on abtn.co.uk but can anyone else recommend any other sites regarding aviation news?

also in the maths test can anyone remember if there were any trigonometry, quadratic, pythagoras or probability questions?

[hollingworthp]

From memory, the maths test is far more practical than that: i.e. Aircraft A leaves at 10:00 travelling at 175kts, Aircraft B leaves at 10:45 from the same point travelling at 235kts, what time will the cross and how far will they have travelled.

You won't be using a calculator and there is no advanced algebra. You will want to be able to do long division / multiplication / addition and subtraction.

[dhc1180]

isnt it just speed = distance / time??

[4KBeta]

Yes it is using Speed / Distance / Time calculations but no it is not that answer as you don't know the time they have been travelling for do ya :}

[Joffyh]

I'm aware that I said to you the Physics test isn't part of Compass and was a OAT test, this is what I was told by someone who sat the assessment. However, I was looking at the Compass website and it says that one of the Compass tests is a technical physics test...I think your best bet is to phone them.

[egrayton]

thanks for the heads up joff
i actually got in contact with mike at OAT and he confirmed that the tech test (i take it that its the physics test) is not in the compass test

anyone got any good advice on how to pass the group exercises?

anyway i'd still like to know some good aviation news related sites
and can anyone tell me some of the big aviation news related things that happened this year?

[Joffyh]

Hollingworthp, did the example you use actually come in your test?

Aircraft A leaves at 10:00 travelling at 175kts, Aircraft B leaves at 10:45 from the same point travelling at 235kts, what time will the cross and how far will they have travelled.It seems like one hell of a question to answer with something like 30seconds per question. Is there a formula which can be used? The only way I did it was using simultaneous DST formulas etc.

Cheers
Joffy :)

[Halfwayback]

egrayton

anyway i'd still like to know some good aviation news related sites and can anyone tell me some of the big aviation news related things that happened this year?


Having read ALL your posts it seems to me that you seem to want everyone to do your leg-work. :bored:

Having flown for a Major for over 20 years, and been involved in the recruitment process, those that stand out at interview are those who have taken the trouble to prepare themselves in depth and not just followed the flock. May I suggest if you spent a little less time posting requests for information and a bit more 'searching' you would find the information more quickly.

Good luck with the interview.

HWB

[hollingworthp]

Joffy - I pulled those figures and that example out of thin air. It has been a year since my assessment so my memory of it is not too clear. However, there is a much simpler way to do that than simultaneous equations.

Google Speed, Distance, Time questions and practice those as this is the kind of thing you need to be able to do. Granted the real questions will no doubt be doctored to give rounder answers than mine but it can be worked out in 30 secs or less with pen and paper.

[egrayton]

i get what you mean HWB
i've searched the internet and read loads of articles and one of the bigger ones still seem to be open skies

is there anything else?

[roll_over]

Egrayton just go to the airliners.net forums and you will find most of the aviation news discussed to death by armchair CEOs, it is still nonetheless quite useful information. T5, BA 777 incident, openskies airline, your predictions for the future of heathrow blah blah the list can go on and on.

And i hope they don't have those aircraft A/B questions in the test, I did those type of questions for A level maths and they aren't that simple!

[hollingworthp]

The questions probably are easier than that in that they will be more straight forward in the numbers they use - but do expect Speed / Distance / Time questions and don't expect them to be as easy as: You are travelling at 60 mph, how many miles in 2 hours ;)

The problem I put up can be done with pen, paper and a bit of clear thinking. I only got B at A-level maths and that was 10 years ago so if a coffin dodger like me can manage then I am sure anyone can.

[oli4]

joffhy
work out how far aircraft a has gone in the 45 mins before the seccond aircraft leaves... this is the distance head start of 131 km
then subtract the speeds so aircraft a is effectively standing still while aircraft b is going 60km/h so then work out how long it takes for b to go 131 at 60km/h that gives u the time taken. then simply use the d=s*t to find how far they go.

[betty123]

you know that when they meet their distance travelled will be the same so you would have SxT=SxT for both of the planes so you substitute in to get 175x(T+45) = 235xT then rearrange to solve. there are a few ways of doing it you just have to think outside the box, i was stumped when i first looked at the question but when you stop and think about it, it's not too daunting. I'm sure the questions won't be this hard on the day though.
Has anyone got their assessment at oat on the 26th and 27th of feb?
Good luck to all of you.

[Joffyh]

Thanks for the comments Oli and Betty123, I have already solved the question, using the method you said...it just took me some time! It's worrying how much you forget in 3 years :ugh:

[oli4]

tell me about it try after 5!!! anyway first day of assesment tomorow prob see u tomrow night cos i think i heard u r there tomrow night. good luck for wed thurs
Oli

[speedtouch]

It is exactly that. If you knew all of the answers...then there is not much point in anyone turning up! Many people/organisations will both understand and be sympathetic to the concerns of what is possibly a candidate's first selection in aviation [maybe ever]. But to get into any half-decent organisation, you will now need to sit these tests. Just do your best and be honest. There is no emphasis on any one part. All of it is assessed. An example; having spoken to many candidates that sat the OAT/OAA tests in the past - once they had finished - the most common reaction was "It wasn't as bad as I thought and I wish I had relaxed a bit more." (The same goes with airlines and other FTO's).

It is worth keeping in mind that all FTO's are indeed run for 'Commercial Purposes'. However, as has been said: A good one will help/encourage you to get the best out of you on the day and IF you are not up to it then - they have to tell you.

Getting into a FTO is merely the first stage of what is a long, hard process to getting that first job...It is also worth reminding people that aviation is changing at an astonishing rate [Each day -is closer to a systems analyst, than to a pilot, although a good company will pro-actively encourage manual flying], it is not what it once was.

Is it still worth the time/money /hard-work.....that is you decision....for me? Definitely!:ok:


Best of luck to all,
Speedtouch.

[4KBeta]

Hi all,

Can anyone actually confirm to me how long the assesment for Physics and Maths is?

I have read 15 Questions but also 90 minutes and of course 15 questions in 90 minutes doesnt make sense.

Any help appreciated

Many thanks

[ChriSat]

Physics (technical) tests have no time constraints

Maths is 24 questions in 20 mins

Chrisat

[DFLY]

Hi all,
Looking at taking OAA assesment later in the year, I have just been looking at Cabairs example questions for maths and physics, are these the sort of questions which one should expect in the assesment at OAA or are they more in depth at OAA.
Also after being out of school for near on 8 years what are the best ways to 'get back into maths and physics' any advice would help. Thanks

[Adios]

Cabair's sample paper is a joke. Because it is multiple choice, the correct answers jump off the page since the incorrect ones are so obviously not even close. I didn't have to work any of the problems on the Cabair paper. OAA's is not multi-choice, so you'll have to work a bit harder for the answers. I haven't done either assessment by the way, just did the Cabair sample paper.

[Potential]

OAA's Physics test is multi-choice, but the answers don't necessarily jump out at you.

[oliverpollard]

Hi,
I have been looking at the epst compass test - (www.epst.com/com/compas.html) and I am still unsure how you work out whether the correct answer is 1 or 3. I wonder if someone could clarify how you use the RBI to distinguish whether 1 or 3 is the correct answer (I obviously realise it is 1 or 3 as the plane is heading west a descending)
Thanks.

[Potential]

The direction that the red arrow on the RBI is pointing has to correspond to the position of the purple cross in the centre of the grid in relation to the correct aircraft symbol. Therefore 1 is the correct answer.

[Adios]

The easiest thing is to pretend you are sitting in the airplane. Pilots and Air Traffic Controllers often refer to the nose of the plane as 12 O' Clock. ATC may tell you that there is traffic you need to watch for at a clock position. It is convenient then to think of the RBI sort of like a clock. 12 O' Clock is in front of your airplane and 6 O' Clock behind your airplane. etc.

Number one shows the purple cross, which represents the radio beacon's position on the ground, directly behind the aircraft and the RBI is pointing at 6 O' Clock, so it matches. For number 3 to be the correct answer, the RBI needle would have to be pointing at 3 O' Clock. It doesn't, so 3 is not the correct answer.

[4KBeta]

Can anyone tell me if the OAT assesment includes Trigonometry without using a calculator?

Many thanks

[woskam]

4KBeta - I did the OAA assessment around 3 months ago and there was no trigonometry questions. Can't promise it hasn't changed though!

[99jolegg]

Is anyone going to the Skills Assessment on Tue 1st July / Wed 2nd July?

Drop me a line if you are!

[flyingman88]

myeguide.co.uk

[ant152]

For the ppl that have done the apptitude testing are you allowed a calculator 4 the maths nd Physics papers?

[Adios]

I hope the post two up is not from a troll. Six whole posts so far and five of them pushing the MyEguide. Should he be in marketing or is he just a grateful wannabe?

Nobody knows about it yet because the MyEguide.co.uk domain name was only registered on November 18th according to the Whois database records. Should we really believe that flyingman88 found this non-advertised, non-promoted site, bought and used the guide, booked OAA assessment and passed it all since 18th November? Given that OAA's assessment is usually booked a month in advance, I smell a rat.

If the guide is worth a darn then that's great, but I have to wonder if Flyingman88 is actually the author or at least promoting the guide for the author.

[CharlieLima]

"Coffin Dodger"Never heard that one before, that had me falling off me chair.

Some really great info in here from everyone thanks a lot to all, and best of luck to those going for the assessment.

Anyone who has used the GSCE Physics and Maths books or are using them could you say how long it would take to completely "brush up" on them, and how usefull they are or where? (13 years out of school here)

Also, For the compass question, what does RBI stand for (Radio Beacon Indicator?) are we supposed to already know or is it a guess? Does look a bit complicated.

[Potential]

RBI stands for relative bearing indicator. Prior knowledge of it is not necessary as there are detailed instructions during the Compass test.