RT - bet there are many experts on this one!

[heli_ben]

Ok, bear with me on this...

I'm after an example of all conversation between pilot & atc for a flight from say EGBK (Blackbushe) and EGTB (Wycombe)... pretty simple!

This is a heli flight in a piston heli.

I realise that the RT would change given daily circumstance, but all the important stuff & any extras you fancy!

Thanks in advance,

HB

[helimutt]

You gotta be kidding tho?? Talk to the airport you're leaving (after receiving atis, talk to tower, then app) Talk to enroute , (whoever necessary), Talk to the place you're going into. who you are, what you are, what you want to do or what your intentions are.

easy.:)


Don't try talking to ATIS. Very ignorantand never get a reply.

[Torquetalk]

Ben try:-

LASORS 2004 "Cut the Chat" in the GA safety section near the back: pretty much what you are looking for.

You could develop the very good example to suit your purpose with resources such as:-

Relevant chart - who should you talk to on departure, en route and approach to landing?
Aerodrome manual (Pooleys etc) for service available (air-ground; AFIS; ATC?)
CAP 413; Oxford RT media; many similar such resources, for standard phraseology.

Plan the RT for your flight, what you expect to say and hear; type it up: Get another pilot or FI to check it over with you...

Make up helper sheets (for chart or kneeboard?) to remind you of the order of things to be said in flight: e.g the items needed when requesting a Flight Information Service.


TT

[heli_ben]

Thanks for the responses.

Sorry this isn't a "I don't know how to do it - please can someone do it for me".

I was just looking to reference what you pros do, vs. what I do.

Thanks,

HB

[Doc Cameron]

Helimutt - you still talking to the ATIS? You know its a recording, yes?

TTT, well spotted, it made me giggle though!

[heli_ben]

Surely someone must be able to provide an example...

Don't care on airports, perhaps from ones you use regularly?

Thanks,

Ben

[FiveSevenAlpha]

Ben

I don't know if it would help, but I used a scanner to listen in on ATC comms when I started my PPL(H) course. I was already used to operating radios, but was concerned that bad habits would creep in and I'd start using non-standard phrases when using airband. It really helped me and I've suggested a couple of friends do the same. To my knowledge, they all found it useful.

I realise that your request is for a different purpose, but it may well help if you're able to listen to several different "levels" of ATC. Not to record them, though, for obvious reasons.

57A

[Torquetalk]

Omg - ATIS is a RECORDING! I just thought they never let you get a word in edgeways. :}



Ben

I have given you a good example - it's in LASORS 2004.

TTTs has also pointed out the 413 examples.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

TT

[the beater]

It's not what you say that matters, it's how you say it. The pilot landing at the local flying club in the R22 could be a multi-thousand hour ATP out on a jolly, whilst the person calling overhead in the S76 could be a low hour PPL simply operating the radio. All other things being equal, the person in the tower will form an impression of your ability based on the only evidence he has - that is how you sound. You will appear professional if you sound confident and keep it short. Who you are, where you are and what you want will often suffice.
The problem with answering your question is that every pilot, professional or overwise, will have differences in their mannerisms and exact phraseology. You can't work to a script. Having said that, if you comply exactly with CAP 413, you will sound like a TYRO. I don't know of any experienced pilot that would ask for a radio check on two frequencies on each radio; if you call them and you hear them reply, it's working! Asking an A/G operator for a clearance is also a give away.
The simple way to sound experienced? Get experience! Professional pilots have the same RT licence that you have.

In short - keep it short, speak with confidence, don't be concerned about using exact phraseology - you'll be surprised at what you can get away with!;)

[Snarlie]

I think what you were hoping to hear was:-
Wycombe Tower for departure.
When clear of Booker ATZ round about Henley area change to Farnborough Radar 125.25 - request Flight Information
6 miles to run to Blackbushe call Blackbushe on 122.30 request joining instructions. Avoid Yateley (NE of Blackbushe at all costs)
Aim for H and park on one of the designated helipads near the Tower.
Watch out for light plank traffic in and out of White Waltham along the railway line, they have to concentrate so hard on following the line feature that they never look out.
Once shut down proceed to flying club, locate knackered looking old git in corner and buy him coffee - that`s me!

[heli_ben]

I assume that's you Graham?

I was doing some prep work for Sunday, and wanted to compare my "private" efforts with the "commercial" lot on here! ;-)

Are you about today, I was going to give you a call...

HB

[the beater]

So you were just after a crib-sheet for a qualifying cross-country flight after all!:mad:Do you not employ an instructor to teach you the rudiments? Enough time wasted; QSY (no, I'm not telling you what it means) to youtube.:(

[manfromuncle]

From Blackbushe to Wycombe? I wouldnt bother with Farnborough. It's only a 10 min flight. Hardly worth calling them.

[heli_ben]

No, I'd say your assumptions are more unbelievable. You are totally incorrect.

Graham, is not my instructor and this flight is not a qualifying cross country.

I believe radio is my weakest area of flying and so I am using what resources I can find out there to compare what I do, to what other (more experienced pilots) do.

I don't think that's insane, after all if I can use collective knowledge to make me, and therefore the airspace around me safer then I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks,

HB

[NickLappos]

heli-ben,

Don't let those pprune sour pusses ruin your day. I know EXACTLY what you are asking, and why, and your are right to ask.

In flight school, we used to sit in our chair and "fly" around the area, making calls to each other, one acting as ground ATC, to be sure the patter was burned in our brain. While flying, observing and navigating, adding the radio and verbal workload can vastly overload a new pilot, unless the verbal patterns are run through so many times that they are nearly automatic.

Some basics of how to train yourself on radio usage (best done with an equally motivated newbie as a partner):


Draw a simple map of your route on a blank paper
Draw the typical ATC functions as circles on the map, barely overlapping, so you know who you will be talking to. there should be few areas where no commo is required (in the UK, that is! In the US, the opposite is true)
In each circle, print boldly the ATC function's name, like "Bumfolk Ground" and "Pprunehater Center"
Now "Fly" across this map in your mind, telling each in turn what they need and what you want (the essence of your call) and then anticipating what they will tell you.
Burn this sequence in your brain so that the string of info is familiar to you
Do NOT get hung up on the precise phrases. Speedbirds sound like they are strolling through their living rooms as they call Heathrow, they do NOT use typical "by the book " phrasology, and you do not need to worry if you flub a phrase. The things ATC needs to know are simple - Who the hell are you, where are you, what is your height, and what do you need him for? for example: "Tower (he knows which Tower he is, and you called on his frequency so even saying his place name is redundant!), Bell 1234 is on the south ramp with Foxtrot for departure westbound."I still recall sitting in the mess hall, calling "Salt Shaker center, this is Bell 1234 at Plate, 4,000, estimating Water Glass at 35, Centerpiece, over!" Makes you a better pilot, but a lousy date.
Keep asking, and tell those real pros in the posts below who make fun of you to piss off, they were in your shoes a few months ago, I would bet, but NOW they are way above all that. ;)

[heli_ben]

Thanks NickLappos, I enjoyed reading that!

* sets off for kitchen to procure condiments *

[Bilbo Bagover]

Speaking on the radio is like learning a foreign language. In the early days you have to think about every word you say. As you become fluent you just open your mouth and talk.

Like foreign languages it just takes plenty of time in country!

Bilbo

[heliski22]

Good man, Nick!

You beat me to it - what a lot of inconsiderate tossers! My own first attempt at R/T in front of an examiner nearly twenty years ago (it was done separately across a table that time!) was a dismal failure, redeemed only after I'd had a stiff talking to by an instructor and spent some time talking out loud to myself in what my family thought was a very strange language indeed as I carried out circuits of the sofa in the sitting room!!

After a little while, you obviously get to know what to expect, broadly to know what you can expect to be told and how you're going to be told to do it and, obviously, what you ought to say in response.

Heli-Ben, enjoy your flight!!

[heli_ben]

Thanks for the positive comments chaps!

I shall keep learning, and when I'm one of the more experienced I'll try and remember this time before I reply to any less experienced folk...

Cheers all,

Safe flying, HB

[Pandalet]

It's probably worth having someone handy who is certain of what they're doing - I tried this when training for my PPL with my other half and a copy of CAP413, with some really odd results.

I'd suggest this might be a good topic / activity for one of those helicopter pilot get-togethers I've been hearing so much about; all you need is one of them experienced folks who doesn't mind talking funny while you buy him or her beer.

[the beater]

I don't know what you are doing, but it sounded as though you were rehearsing a flight. Maybe it's the practical RT exam?
It's difficult to give advice when you don't have the full picture, but what I said in the first post applies to all scenarios - except - if it's for the RT exam you do need to ignore what us old crusties do, as we live in the real world; something that is not quite the same as the world you inhabit whilst undergoing training! Learning RT from us lot is akin to spending the morning before your driving test in the company of a white van man. I'm sincere in offering my apologies for the second post, but please be aware that we are not all as good at guessing your intentions as some.

P.S. if it is your RT exam, the one thing that sounds really professional in reply to your clearance to land is to reply (in a Texan drawl) "got the Dunlops danglin' ".;)

[nigelh]

i spent years trying to sound professional and getting all the words and order correct .....now a bit wiser i realise that the most important thing is TO talk and not sit there going thru it in your mind as you get closer and closer to their ATZ !! Open up a dialogue early and in plain english say who , where and what you are and what you want .....it is as simple as that so no need to get tongue twisted any more :ok: ( dont try this going into heathrow tho, !!) The controllers can tell how experienced you are from your talk and may nanny you a bit more if the think you are low time ....or they may just keep you out of the way ...