Hi everyone can everyone chip in here and help list all the airlines/organisations that offer a type rating with line hours? Cheers

Diamond1:)

Pegasus airlines - Turkey - B737

http://www.flypgs.com/

Menikos do u know much about them? I may be going there on the next course.

Has anyone had any recent experience with Bond Aviation?

If you look at flightglobal you'll find some recent ad's for TR and line training vacancies. Storm Aviation - A320 rating and 300 hours. All yours for 25 thousand quid! Whether you agree with the morals of it are a different issue:=

none will employ you if your total time doesn't exceed 1500h-2000h.
this market is already filled with pilots with 500-600tt, and 200h or 300h of airbus/boeing, and still looking for a job.
few or none have reported something positive...

if airlines were employing this kind of guys, we would know it!:(

So why are companies like Parc Aviation and others on PPJN constantley crying out for pilots with 300/500 hours on type for 737 or A320?

believe me, they don't have to cry for pilots with 300/500h ON TYPE.They are not desperated to see you with a type rating.
not only you need 300/500h , but they want see your 1500-2000h total time.

these requirements are to apply, it doesn't mean they will give you a job.
Parc aviation received thousand of email every week.
When they have a job opening , 200-300 pilots apply for maybe 5-10 jobs.

So they will pick up the guys with 10'000h, not the guy with 300h just coming out from line training.

about Bond? some of my friends didn't finished their type or their line training. Once you have paid, they put you on stand by after 2-3 days flying, then you wait and wait , and wait, until your license are expired,...and with no curent license, you have 2 choices, you pay more, or you leave...

I've just had a quick look to clarify, and Dartagnan is correct. Almost all ads for Type Rated crew on flight global were TR + Min 500 on Type + 1500TT
A very odd one stated a TT of 1000 but still required 500 on Type.
(Bearing in mind these were for airliners)

Two friends of mine went the SSTR route. One on an A320 with 300 on type and one on a B757 with 100 on type.
That was 9 and 18 months ago respectively..... still nothing.

I think the bottom line is if you are going to pay for the rating:* then at least get a job confirmed first. Otherwise IMHO Its complete madness.

How in the world do you guys afford this extra 20k+ after all the training costsask your daddy !!!
the chance to find a job with 500h tt, and 300h airbus/boeing are close of 0.1%.

with 1500h, not even 1%

Can anyone who has tried and failed or alternatively tried and succeeded with the sstr route add comments?

How in the world do you guys afford this extra 20k+ after all the training costs

I work and save. Unfortunately this means taking gaps in my aviating.

Can I point out a depressing point with these shemes. The line training you get on most SSTR is near on worthless. You are effectively put in the right hand seat and quietly asked for the gear up and the gear down. You do very little handling and the organisations 'training' you have little worry about the standard they produce as they are not looking to employ you for the long term. Thus, you have 100hrs or so in your logbook nut no real handling experience - and all the other airlines know it!

Ok let get some facts about SSTR's

1, Not everyone gets "Daddy" pay for it, some do, might even go as far as saying most do, but not all of them. I took a break from flying for a few years worked very hard at a job over seas to fund all my training.
Also the selection for the more respected company's is every bit as tough as for and other airline, not just a simple as "do you have the cash?"

2, Like any other type of training establishment there are good and bad TRTO's, but all are bound by the same rules, checked and audited to the same standard as all the rest ( well within the same country anyway). So they are not going to sign off on a LST unless you can operate the aircraft to the required standard. You have to be up the grades, if not your gone.

3, Line training, Unless you end up line flying at some cowboy outfit you are not just going gear up and down, no way, not a chance. I was trained to just the same standard as any F/o at the airline i was with. Not one inch was given on standards where i trained, if you was not up to the standard you didn't get the line release. If you passed you stayed on on F/O pay scale for the summer.

4, Jobs, the big one. Lets see, people are saying that you wont get a job with the hours. Not true, i finished my " Line training" and started a contract job the next week, also been offered a permanent position with the airline i trained with at the end of this contract. And not just that i am in three hold pools as well as being offered more contract work.

5, The morals of SSTR's. Don't bother getting all principled and start shouting that they are evil and no one should pay for them.
I agree, BUT, this is a very cut throat industry. I decided that if i didn't take it ten other people would, and what would that have achieved? Nothing!
I was asked in the interview how a felt about paying for a rating, i gave them the honest answer, i didn't want to have to pay, but the world has changed.

So to sum it up am i happy i did an SSTR? Yes i am, it has more than paid its cost for its self already. The future is, as the advert used to say, orange ( and no i am not at easyjet at the mo).


Cheers

Polar :ok:

p.s sorry if the typing and spelling is c**p, rushing to much as i have to be up early tomorrow to go to the land of the pyramids.

polarhero
" i didn't want to have to pay, but the world has changed."

Not exactly...IMO I would say students pilots change (well some, not all).
If a company asks paying for TR it is because it knows some wannabes will pay for that not because the company cannot pay.

Polar hero
Thanks for that and well done, hope all continues well for you.

Avoid FSB in Berlin, they offer a B737 TR in which they tell you that there is a very good prospect that you will get 100 hours of line training.

I have stayed in touch with my training mates from FSB, and nobody got those 100 hours. It is just a way of getting students to their school.

Go ahead guys, we only live once....Spend your money for some useless rating.
Your impatience cost you a lot.. What about getting a FI licence and instructing for a while??? Then you'll have a nicer logbook..etc...

We all want to be Jet Pilot, some at any price.... Go for it if you're naif enough to spend up to 150 000 euros for a job (basic training + TR + interests).

My useless rating gave me a job!!!!
And Bambe.... Im Pretty sure we have ALL heard that song before :ugh:
Maybe you should start you own " Dont pay for your own typerating" thread. :ok:

VNA,

I agree with you its when you say "because it knows some wannabes will pay for that not because the company cannot pay". I don't like it, but thats exactly how it is. And thats what i was saying by the world changing.

Bambe,

As topper says " my useless rating gave me a job". You say do a FI and instruct for a while (very good advice), I did. And I think it was the best thing i did, it helped to make me a better pilot.

Brainstorm,

I don't know about FSB, but i decided i was not taking any rating that didn't include the line hours. Make sure it is in the contract. There are too many people with a rating and 1 hour on type out looking for jobs. And you realy do need the time to get anything.

:ok:

Polarhero,

You make a very good point, any line hours should be in the contract. If not then you will most certainly never see them.

If you must go down the self sponsor type rating route, why not try the Ryanair scheme for type rating B.737 pilots, at least you get a job at the end of the training, should you come up to their training standards.
Standards which i am told are closely monitored by the IAA.
Ryanair are not the most popular choice, but I know that they are very selective in whom they take and that many guys are getting their first job with them, and building hours, whilst not earning high salaries initially the potential after reaching 1500 hours as an F/O is higher than some new Captains make at 3000 hours.

No I am not employed by Ryanair, or connected with them but many of my fellow pilots have joined them and are happy with the work and the New 5/4 rosters.

If you pay for a rating you could get advice from people in the industry before committing your hard earned cash.
Some Training Managers were not happy with the product from some training establishments, and found that the pilots had to be re-trained almost from scratch to achieve the required standards.

Low Cost training = BIG RISK = Lower Job prospects.

Most airlines prefer to do their own training or go through organisations like CTC who have a proven track record.

The moral of this story is, Research before you Buy.

I agree -

I know people rabbit on and try to tell you what to do with all your hard-earned (or otherwise) money on here, but there are so many other reliable SSTR options to look at first rather than giving in and going down the impatient, blind SSTR-without-a-job-lined-up route:

-Flybe/FTE
-BACF/FTE
-CTC
-Ryanair
-CityJet/Storm
-Other regional airline schemes...

There are more, but there's a start. At least there's a job in it for you at the end of it all if you work hard at it.

I hope you change your mind before it's too late. It's so easy to fall into the false sense of security that any SSTR will kickstart your flying career and get you flying sooner and that it will all work out as you see it through your proverbial 'rose-tinted specs'... I know coz I've been there and I really believed that an SSTR would get me that 1st job, but in reality there are so many more factors involved in pilot recruitment than just meeting the minimum requirements. Like - did you even make it to the short list? Will the interviewer like you as a person? Did you answer the tech questions proficiently? It's like the swiss cheese principle - If you make it through all the filters you may get through and be offered that job.

Look at it another way - You are a newly qualified, low experience pilot looking for an airline job. You should be looking to take a job with ANY airline to get you on that ladder. Then you buy a TR. You've just narrowed down the list of potential employers to just those who fly that type. Next, you only meet the minimum type experience for some of those airlines. Then you may be shortlisted for interview by a handful of those. Then you may fail the interview/assessment for some of those... You see how you are narrowing your chances?

Luckily for me I was talked out of it before I made that mistake and I got my FI rating instead.

It really is worth holding out for that golden opportunity, you won't be the first or last person to wait a while longer for it, but boy will it be worth it when it comes and you have that job offer in writing! Earn some money and keep flying in the mean time, FI or otherwise, and don't give up/in.

This was only meant to be a quick reply but I'm sorry, I just had to say all that and try to help you.

Good luck ;)

My advice for the day, be aware that if it worked for a friend/somebody does not mean it will work for you.
We are different, different personnality, hours, experience, attitude etc
Don't do a SSTR just because you know your neiborghood did it or because you read something on this forum (Professional PIlots Rumours Network)
Be vigilant, be yourself and listen to yourself only : your goal, lifestyle, network etc

So if you don't have enough money in this case be very very careful how you will spend it.

the time you finish your type rating, the market will be overloaded with low time pilot (less than 1500h),type rating and line training.

with this, even a type rating and 300h, it is not easy to find a job view that everybody soon will have 300 h on type and low hours(total time).

years ago, they wanted MCC. then they asked for the t/r, today they ask for 300/500h on type, tomorrow they will ask you 1000h on type,...

ask you friends who fly since 20-30 years, they will tell you the same.
The time you finish your type rating, you will discover you need more hours on type...
better to keep your money, and look for a company which pay all or instruct as a FI.

being a canadian pilot i'm new to this strange e.u. system of sstr and line hours.

i understand paying for a tr and how that works, but what are line hours? does that mean you pay an air carrier to be a co-pilot on their revenue runs and build time after a tr?

can someone summarize the path to being employed as a f/o, ie: what happens after your fatpl and mcc course are completed?

pk

PK.

Some training organisations offer line training with no or little renumeration.
In some instances i've heard of the trainees paying for their own drinks/meals onboard and paying for their accommodation down route.

You can buy as much line training as you want. Some people take 5-10 hours others take 100 or more.
You will be trained in that respective airlines SOPs.

Once you've done your MCC and got your FATPL, it's a choice of paths to take to get that illusive 1st job.

Instructing is a great way of honing your skills, improving your flying, building hours, meeting people, flying different types etc. Most importantly, in the eyes of the CFI who may interview you, it's a way you can pass on your knowledge to teach others to fly....!!!

(CFI - Q: Why do you want to instruct? A: To teach others to fly. CFI Welcome aboard.....) It can be that easy.....was for me providing I performed in the check out.

The long-winded debate about the rights and wrongs of SSTRs is here to stay and it's the individuals choice entirely like anything in life and aviation training.

No-one says anyone has to do an FI, there's not always a guarantee there that the training provider will give you a job at the end of it, they might not like you as a person.

No-one says anyone has to do an SSTR, it's your choice again, jobs are far from guaranteed.

The market is now being flooded as others have said.

I did an SSTR and got a bunch of job offers with no line time on type.

Right place, right time, face fits....?!?

It got me the job......:ok:

thanks for the info capt y&b,

to elaborate on this "line hour" practice... what does it cost to do something like that? wouldn't it be free and in return you'd work for free? how is this arranged? are there any airlines that hire you right after you've completed an mcc?

i have just over 1000 hrs all on light aircraft, does that put me in a good position with respect to 'hire-ability' for lack of a better term?

pk

PK.

Where are you considering trying for jobs?

1000 hours on light aircraft is good but has it been useful flying ie instructing etc? Sometimes too many hours can be a disadvantage if it has just been zipping around the local area etc. Good flying is cross country flights, flying in controlled airspace etc. I used to talk to myself all the time :} whilst flying, reminding myself of scans and checklists etc, think about my techniques and improve upon weaker area's etc, that'd be most of my flying then...!!! :ugh:

I don't know how most TRTO's work with their line flying but the one that I am aware of charged you to fly the line as an F/O, something like GBP10000 for 100 hours and you did not get paid. If they liked you, if you were any good then they might offer you a job or put you in a hold pool whereby you can swim for months or longer.

As I said in my previous post, instructing is an excellent way to build hours and improve your knowledge and techniques.

It's a tough industry to get in to but once you're in it's like winning lotto.

With a 1000 hours on light aircraft i'd go for the commuter airlines, turboprop operators, air taxi companies etc, by all means try the jet operators, you might be lucky.

If you do consider doing an SSTR, research it VERY carefully, choose the TRTO wisely, read the contract & T&C's VERY carefully so you know exactly what you will be getting and don't run up against any nasty surprises. Try to pay as little as possible up front and pay in parts just so if they did go belly up you aren't left with a big hole in your pocket and nothing to show for it.

Cheers.

A Type rating and a minimum of 100 hours on type, is the entry level for expatriate First Officers in India.
This is required by the DGCA and is not negotiable.
However the carriers are crying out for pilots as their networks grow, so the risk of not getting a job after training is lower than some here would like you to believe.
I was out there at a time when flights were being grounded and routes not taken up, due to the lack of pilots.
If you can raise the money for a type rating and line training, its a good route to take as yes you do improve your chances of obtaining that first airline job.
Going to India or China to work is not for everybody, but If you can put up with being out of your home environment for a couple of years, you will get a wealth of experience and the hours to return possibly to your dream job at home.
There will always be people here on pprune who will run down anyone proposing this route, some who cannot afford this option and others who believe the world owes them and their new licence a living.
Its my strong suggestion that a proactive approach to job seeking, is the only way to land that first job, and anything that puts you that bit ahead of the others can only be good for you.
Don't let the minority on here influence your decision.
Look at the facts over 30 pilots have been hired by Ryanair from OAA alone this year all on the Self Sponsored Type Rating scheme, Plus there are many more from other training schools both integrated and modular.

The SSTR is here for the forseeable future and the choice is relatively simple, pay and fly your dream or sit and wait for some HR department to finally get to you on their long list of wannabees.