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Heffer
4th Feb 2008, 14:02
I thought this might be of interest to some wannabes as I couldnt see it mentioned on pprune.

Silverjet are advertising for low hour pilots BUT with a type rating for second officer positions (cruise relief pilot). Upgrade to handling pilot F/O after 2 years. More details on their website.

Gator32
4th Feb 2008, 14:45
we are exploring the possibility of giving the opportunity for employment to low hours type rated pilots

Current Second Officer salary scale starts at £27,810 pa (£28,644 year 2)

This has got to be a joke!
They are not only expecting the applicant to accept this pathetic package, but they also expect the successful applicant to have stumped up for their own type rating prior to application!

CABUS
4th Feb 2008, 14:56
Thanks for pointing that you, I have already applied and would love the chance to fly for such a great airline! Thank you again.

Gator32
4th Feb 2008, 16:25
Thanks for pointing that you, I have already applied and would love the chance to fly for such a great airline! Thank you again.

Cabus, can I assume you already have a type rating on the B757 as per the MINIMUM requirements?
If so, can you explain what would possess you to accept this package when you could go elsewhere and command upwards of 40k basic & more importantly get to actually fly the aircraft.

CABUS
4th Feb 2008, 17:45
I didnt post that to get into a typical pprune debate about my position, which is frankly none of your business. I just wanted to thank the other chap for the information which has allowed me to apply for an airline that I have great respect for.

assymetricdrift
4th Feb 2008, 21:24
CABUS: It's an interesting vacancy and one I am quite undecided upon. Despite the fact that it would be "cruise relief" work, after 2 years, then you'd be "guaranteed" (or so it says!) to hold a F/O position.

Do you have a 75/767 type rating though? That's the bit that worries me - I don't really want to spend another £30k in this current market on a generic type rating, which would mean that the way you were taught when you did, it was not the way that Silverjet wanted it. And besides, there's the golden phrase of: "No guarantees".

So in reality, I'm relunctant to do anything towards it yet. But we will see how it develops.

islasdad
4th Feb 2008, 23:27
I am quite curious about your assumption that on posession of a 75 rating you can automatically attain a more lucritave and fulfilling position.

I do possess a 75/76 rating however have unfortunately got low hours so where are all these wonderful 75/76 jobs that I can get so easily then.

ID

Tartan Troosers
5th Feb 2008, 11:37
I think gator 32 seems to think if you have a T/R you can just choose what airline you want to work for! I have a 75TR with low hours, and have been applying to airlines since last summer, with no luck yet. I have had some interviews but the furthest I have got is a hold pool for one operator. This is great, but when you are not sure how big the pool is, or where you stand in it, means you have to keep searching. I have heard people waiting a few weeks to a year, so you can see the problem. :hmm:

Airlines at the moment are short of experienced aircrew. Yes there are plenty of jobs out there, but reading the min. requirements 500-1000hrs seems to be the norm.:(

There are a few good operators that will take low hours guys, but it means the job market is quite a bit smaller than it might be, with a disproportionate number of people applying.

We just need to keep on applying, we will get there in the end. It is just a matter of hoping the money doesn't run out before we get there.:E

Good luck to all job hunters!! :ok:

Fair_Weather_Flyer
5th Feb 2008, 11:56
Just don't pay them any money up front, unless you can afford to lose it. If the economy starts to struggle even more then Silverjet will be one of the hardest hit airlines. Their competitor Maxjet recently went bust. So, no guarantees to say the least.

islasdad
5th Feb 2008, 16:17
I agree I have only recently done my type and have had one interview so far.

However I am extremely bored with all this dont pay for your type it makes it worse for the rest of us and why dont you just wait around and a job will eventually show up.

I have a family to support and have already spent a small fortune getting to this point. If I have to lay out a little more in order to secure my families future then that is what I will do. Anything I can do to make me more marketable and I can afford it I will do it.

Are these sanctimonious idiots advising against it going to pay my mortgage or any of my other bills I DONT THINK SO.

I will get there in the end perseverance will out eventually.

ID.

Stpaul
6th Feb 2008, 07:39
......and an empty wallet!

rbr919
6th Feb 2008, 07:42
It amazes me that low houred pilots still do a 757 TR, do they not realise that the fleets in the UK are drastically diminishing.

fade to grey
6th Feb 2008, 08:03
Who's 757 fleets are 'drastically diminishing' ?We have loads of low hour 757 FOs who have paid for the TR and got a job, and what about :
BA
Open Skies
First choice/thomson
DHL
Titan
Astraeus
Thomas Cook
Monarch
Jet2
Globespan
Silverjet
If you are going to buy a jet rating it is still a reasonable throw of the dice,not forgetting all those contract jobs out there

Grass strip basher
6th Feb 2008, 08:15
Before jumping at this I would suggest doing a bit of research as to the future of Silverjet... Jan passenger loads were only 54%.... down from the 58% achieved last year. Shares fell 19% on the news. Many people questioning if the airline has a future (could it go the same way as Maxjet?)... think I read somewhere that a 65% passenger load was needed to break even (based off an assumption of much low fuel prices).... would be a shame to blow all of that cash on a type rating for the airline to be in bankruptcy when you finish!

Saxon Ops
6th Feb 2008, 09:24
This isn;t a new or innovative idea. VS did this when they launched HKG flights in the early/mid 90's. Admittedly, they didn't ask pilots to buy a T/R but the world has changed and self funded T/R is now a fact of life -move on and acept it; pilots have no right to demand airlines fund T/Rs in the same way that any other career can demand other voacational course costs.

VS used cruise pilots as a form of cadetship that gave many of them the opportunity to get on the career ladder - some of them are now four stripers so it has some value - even with a modest salary pakcage.

Go for it! If you do nothing you'll be left grounded and if they do go down the pan after you have the T/R then you have improved your chances but there are no guarantees.

badboy raggamuffin
6th Feb 2008, 09:39
Two years as a cruise relief pilot? What exactly does a "cruise relief pilot" do exactly? Sit there and watch the auto pilot for 10 hrs? Two years of that sounds thrilling. Mind you, you'd be getting paid £28000 a year for doing absoulotely f###k all, could be attractive to some. Would be a bit like Homer Simpson's job in sector 7G. Personally I reckon it'd piss me off after a while, 2 years without so much as one landing!
This scheme sounds to me like a bit of a scam by silverjet. They want to cut costs and avoid paying a cruise pilot a full first officer's wage, saving what, 15-20k a year per cruise pilot. How can we do that? I know! we'll get a load of desperate low hours pilots in to do the job and pay them a reduced wage. Yet more exploitation of wannabe's by an airline.

Stpaul
6th Feb 2008, 11:27
I've had a 757/767 rating for nearly 2 years and although there is a longish list of airlines that have 757s and 767s you will find that it is very difficult to get into those companies with low hours, even more so if not impossible if they only have 767s, due to their high hour requirements or their own criteria.
To run through that list above.
BA; Do not take low houred pilots that are type rated. You do not fall into the category of non rated pilot nor direct. (new pilot has strict criteria, certain schools, certain grades and only intergrated and normally you have to be referred by your school). Getting rid of 757s to Open Skiies that recruit experienced rated pilots.
My travel - No 757/767 left.
FC/thomson - Not recruiting at the moment and still a huge holding pool exists. They also tend to be very selective as to which schools they recruit from. Their have got rid of several aircraft.
DHL - About 12 months ago they did take some low houred TR pilots, previous criteria was 3500hours and currently looking for those with experience.
Titan - only apply if your Father works there are you have experience.
Astraus - they only take a select few from the bond course.
GSM - Plenty of experience required, as mainly based on 767.
Jet2 - will take low houred with a TR, but have now recruited
Thomas cook - looking a phase out 757, mainly looking at all airbus fleet.
Monarch - experience required or direct from Jezez and dont expect to get paid.
Silverjet - FOs need experience.

If i was to pay for a new TR without the prospect of a job I think that it would be wise not to look at the 757 but look seriously at only the 737.

no sponsor
6th Feb 2008, 11:56
The 73 rating is a bit of a dead rating in Europe to be honest with you, unless you want FR. When I look out of my 737 window, I mostly see Airbus 319/320 here in Europe. Certainly if you want to fly the 737 in the UK, there's not much choice of airlines to go to, even less if you are 300-500 rated.

The 757 rating is very overpriced, Bond charge GBP27K! I don't know of any other establishment with a 757 JAA rating which offers non-airline bods a go, as I think GECAT and Alteon don't accept private applications.

soutie48
6th Feb 2008, 12:20
Grass strip basher is dead right.
In today Motley Fool a report shows that Silverjet are probably not the most attractive long term option at the moment, http://www.fool.co.uk/news/investing/company-comment/2008/02/05/silverjet-shoots-itself-down.aspx?source=ioowfeml0040008 ,
At least wait until the Ides of March. :confused:

Canada Goose
6th Feb 2008, 12:40
Saxon_Ops

pilots have no right to demand airlines fund T/Rs !

I beg to differ - by the same token; Airlines have no right to demand pilots pay for TR's. They are their aircraft (systems) and if they want qualified commercial pilots to fly them for them, so they can make a profit, then they should pay for them to be trained on their 'systems'. END OF !

I know it's been said time and time again, but guess what people won't listen. If people stopped paying for ratings, certain airlines would have to changes their ways, rapidly. It annoyed the f*&^ out of me to hear MOL on Monday banging on about how Europe is facing a mighty recession this year and air travel will suffer, but then, using as an opportunity to put on some spin and add, "but I'm not concerned because Ryanair will survive because people will still want to travel but do it cheaply and as we are Europe's cheapest airline they will all fly with us!" C&^% !

shaun ryder
6th Feb 2008, 15:18
Paying for type rating blah blah! Ok lets say you do, you would then have to be an idiot in my eyes to have no job waiting for you at the end of it. As much as I disagree with certain outfits for making you pay your way, at least you get some work at the end. Massaging your ego and spending a small, hh,hhmm large fortune on a rating out of choice i.e 757 with no hands on experience seems like a foolish choice. Tell me those of you with a rating and six circuits to your name, was it wotrth the money? Because the longer you aint flying the more worthless that rating becomes, no hands on experience you see. Beware paying for types with no job prospects, because it does'nt improve your prospects of getting a job, except in exceptional circumstances.
The silverjet thing is a joke in my opinion, if maxjet are anything to go by they wont last the course.

Dreamshiner
6th Feb 2008, 15:48
All future posters please read the thread title before posting and digressing away from the main issue. As normal this thread has stayed a little from the proposed vacancies at SJ into a debate on self funded TR's.

So in an attempt to bring it back on:

Its £27,810 + £2.75 per hour away from base. That makes it low 30's total?

How many flights per month could a SO expect and hours logged? I'm doing about 4 flights (10 sectors) and 95 hours a month at present.

Good company to work for? Conditions, etc. or is that a question for Terms and Endearment forum?

It says 2 years till promotion but any chance that can be moved forward?

Future routes? NY and Dubai are not the worst but any new ones definitely happening, not just conjecture and rumour?

Financial stability? I don't want to leave a stable job on a wing and a prayer for a company who's jacket is on a shakey peg.

Do you spell 'shakey' with an e or not?

Brian Fantana
7th Feb 2008, 09:57
Dreamshiner
You are already flying 10 sectors 95hours a month. PLUS you are, I'm guessing, getting a take off and landing,what type are you flying, for which airline, what routes are you operating and whats your pay like, what total time do you have? Are you 75/76 type rated could you apply else where for a F/O position with your experience? TCX MON Globespan, Excel,DHL.
I would seriously think twice about leaving a stable job to end up sat in the right hand seat only logging cruise time. I'm gessing it wont be all the cruise time either, only when one of the operating crew wants a rest.
Dont think Silverjet have crew rest area so a lot of time spent sat on jumpseat, or will they make a passenger seat available - looking at the load factors there should be plenty spare.
£27810 after tax?? mmmm. Flight pays not too bad.
Sim session every 3 months - ouch!! - not nice.
What route would you be on. Dont need cruise pilot for New york or Dubai. so only ever going to be flying to the same place rumour of South Africa, LA, San Fran, I'm guessing they wont start all 3 routes. Looking most likely as West Coast US, after their latest recuitment.
All the above are just my twopence worth.
Lots to be considered. Silverjet share price currently at 25p!!
I spell shakey with an E doesnt mean I'm right though:ok:
BF

Dreamshiner
7th Feb 2008, 10:21
Brian in answer to your questions:

You guess incorrectly on a number of things and to be honest I don't really want to divulge too much extra however as a) its an open forum and b) I have no idea of who will view my comments and c) I don't want anyone else second guessing me.

I've sent you a PM explaining all.

I also checked dictionary.com and found out there's no 'e' in shaky.

mightymouse111
7th Feb 2008, 11:02
Looks like initially San Fran & LA.

The 3 month sim I expect will be for the landings rather than full OPC.

Not too sure how much time will be logged, expect minimal but still not a bad wage for doing very little! & promise of FO position.

On the other side - poor wage if rated & very little experience obtained.

BottyTotty
7th Feb 2008, 11:15
Dreamshiner, you makes reasoned observations, and inside the calm well written serenity, I am sure there is a fire and hunger to get in a right hand seat. Though don't look for tits bits to confirm that desire, always look at the whole picture and stay objective. I was there many years ago, desperate for any job.

Tread very carefully with SilverJet for all the reasons mentioned. The reason they are looking at cruise pilots, is to lower their costs because THEY ARE going backwards financially.

all new starts are very volatile, and economic factors point to an economic slowdown.

Maxjet had more of the fundementals to succeed and still couldn't, I doubt SilverJet will make it through.

The salary is rediculously low for someone expected to have a rating. and cruise relief time is pretty worthless to you if it all goes pear shaped, (as their figures suggest), which could result in a big finacial hit and useless time with no take off and landings.

You won't get better than the Lo Co's for first job, experience, hand flying, rapid hours, job/company security and you will earn a lot more than that at Ryan or Easy.

This is a MASSIVE gamble and the odds are you'll lose.

Good luck to you if you do roll the dice

Dreamshiner
7th Feb 2008, 11:39
Oh the contrary BT, I'm more than content to serve my apprenticeship and learn the ropes before given the reins of a 180,000kg beast.

My time in the RHS will come, I am in no rush, I am just content to absorb information and assimilate it at present.

I do agree that SJ looks not peachy at the moment. For some reason a post on this thread this morning were removed either by moderators or the poster, I only know because I am subscribed to it and it was sent to my inbox. It did not make pleasant reading.

LeavinonaJetplane
9th Feb 2008, 10:38
Usual "Down with Silverjet" comments are out again I see. Why does it have to be a scam or a rip off? Well it wouldn't be worth posting on pprune i suppose.........

I think this is a great opportunity for type rated pilots with no experience to get on the big jets. Compare the wages with elsewhere and you will see they pay more than double. I think some of the pilots on here quoting higher salaries, are for pilots with more experience. I hope the opinions on this forum doesn't scare off those who would genuinely benefit from this, (as unfortunately there are vunerable people that base their career decisions on this website??? Madness.....)
There are posts on another thread moaning about Silverjet and indeed other airline's minimum requirements where pilots felt more jobs should be offered to low experienced pilots jobs. Now they are offering out jobs which would help build experience - the gloves are back on?? The hours all count and they don't have to worry about long seniority lists and working for managers they hate, politics and everyone who works there has nothing but good to say about the company/people.

If the company continues with its current amazing sales (despite all the bad press - I see those figures haven't been published on here) then they are still on track for a stab at success. Look at what they have achieved since launching, the load factor for 3 operations is higher than other start ups, expansion plans are still on track and BA are trying to compete - says it all.

I know a few of the pilots there and know that they are promoting from within and are keen to do so, so IMHO they will look after those joining their venture in the future. A great opportunity for the SO's. Good luck to you :ok:

CABUS
10th Feb 2008, 10:41
Well said!:D I think Silverjet are a great company and I look forward to them announcing their forcast profits in March and as you quite rightly have pointed out they have caused a stir within BA.
I think this opportunity with Silverjet is an excellent way of gaining experience in an extremly professional company with great opportunities of new routes and a long term career for any type rated low hour pilot.

BottyTotty
10th Feb 2008, 11:03
Didn't realise the Silverjet HR team are tapping away on Pprune on the weekend.

"This ships unsinkable" said the captain of the Titanic.

Blind optimism in the face of factual loads real finanacial performance and economic conditions doesn't change facts.

I have no association with Silverjet or BA, but if one is thinking of handing over heanous amounts pf money for a 76 type, to work for virtually free. in jet terms as a cruise pilot:yuk: then at least get your facts straight.

The results havn't been released, wonder why?

Don't let desperation lead you into rash decisions, many any Airline pilot has been without job overnight as out of nowhere the company went bust. Silverjet may well suceed, but the financial fundamentals are not great and the success talked about on here and the laughable suggestion that with 2 routes out of Luton that BA is quivering, is built on delusion and mere optimism over substantative fact.

Whatever you decide good luck and safe landings,

Thomas coupling
10th Feb 2008, 15:16
Does anyone genuinely believe SilverJet will be operating by the end of this year???? C'mon get real guys.

Brian Fantana
10th Feb 2008, 15:48
For those of you too young to remember.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2283244.stm

Hope Silverjet dont do an encore to Sir Freddie.

Chicken Leg
10th Feb 2008, 18:45
I think gator 32 seems to think if you have a T/R you can just choose what airline you want to work for! I have a 75TR with low hours, and have been applying to airlines since last summer, with no luck yet

I have a family to support and have already spent a small fortune getting to this point. If I have to lay out a little more in order to secure my families future then that is what I will do. Anything I can do to make me more marketable and I can afford it I will do it.

Are these sanctimonious idiots advising against it going to pay my mortgage or any of my other bills I DONT THINK SO.


Sanctimonious idiots eh? It's you that's paid for the TR and now can't get a job and you have the gall to call others idiots! I also like the way you explained the cost of your TR as 'a little more'!

I know that I'll get a virtual kicking for saying this, but I chuckle when I read of how people like those above can't get a job. Not because I want to see anyone struggle to put food on the table or a shelter over their head, but because they're responsible for their own misfortune, yet blame everyone else, but themselves.

islasdad implies that his motives are dictated by his need to secure his family's future and yet he is willing to pay thousands for the privilage of going to work. I suggest that his motives are more to do with him getting the job that he wants, which is fair enough, but don't lecture us about family values. If it was all about doing what's best for your family, you wouldn't have spent tens of thousands on getting the 'dream' job. You would have chased one of the millions of other vocations where the employer pays you to work, not you pay them!

Sanctimonious maybe, but the above posts suggest paying does nothing more than increase your debts. I know it's not fashionable anymore, but in my job, they pay me. They haven't yet expected me to pay them.

SAM 2M
11th Feb 2008, 00:07
Thomas Coupling....The answer to your question is YES.

BottyTotty
11th Feb 2008, 00:19
From mail on Sunday - Sunday Feb 10th 2008

Silverjet woe for tycoons

The billionaire Rueben brothers, who are bankrolling the struggling Silverjet business class-only airline, have decided not to convert their £10 million loan to the company into shares.
Property tycoons David and Simon Reuben, who could have swapped the loan for shares tomorrow, have decided to keep it in place. A conversion would have given them 22% of Silverjet equity and two seats on the board of the airline, led by Lawrence Hunt.
The decision not to convert reflects the nosediving value of Silverjet shares, which closed week at 24p.
The airline operates two daily round-trip flights on the New York Newark route and a daily return service between Luton and Dubai.

Good luck to you if you go for it, wish I had more money than sense.

islasdad
11th Feb 2008, 21:29
Sanctimonius idiots is what I said and what I meant. I am in the fortunate position of having paid for my training entirely myself with no assistance from mummy and daddy and with no debt to my name.

I had a succesfull business of my own after having spent many years in the airforce of The business however took up far to much of my time and the family suffered so with my families full support have chosen this path.

Without the type rating I was getting no response from my C.V. s. However one cannot continue without an income indefinately. The difference in responsed since I have done one has been extremely marked.

Please stop telling me what I should or shouldnt do with my money and what is best for me and mine when you know nothing about me or my circumstances.:=

Chicken Leg
11th Feb 2008, 21:45
Please stop telling me what I should or shouldnt do with my money and what is best for me and mine when you know nothing about me or my circumstances.

That's absolutely fair enough, but at the same time don't play the guilt trip card by saying you're only doing what's best for your family; You're not, you're only doing what's best for what you want to do. Again, that's fair enough, but don't try and kid yourself (or us/me).

If you want a particular job so badly that you are willing to reverse Economics Lesson 1 (you go to work, you get paid) still fair enough, but don't get too surprised when those of us who work in order to earn money get excited and accuse you of damaging the industry.

In spite of the above, I hope that you find the means to support your family soon.

islasdad
11th Feb 2008, 22:01
There is o guilt trip involved I am doing what I believe to be right in face of the fact that the industry has reached the point where you get a job easier if you have a t.r.

And yes I have studied economics so I do know that aint going to change any time soon.

The guilt trip is al from people who say dont do it cause I cant.

Dreamshiner
13th Feb 2008, 12:20
Whoop Whoop ALERT ALERT!!!!

DANGER .... Off thread, denegrating into a Pay for TR vs not debate, not the thread title or topic.

Can we keep it Silverjet orientated please, God Almighty, please

Whoop Whoop ALERT ALERT!!!!

clunk1001
13th Feb 2008, 14:15
Just a thought…

lets say you got the job, and in 24 months time lets say silverjet are still going strong. That would give you 24 months experience of the right hand seat. And when I say experience of the 'right hand seat' I mean just that - you’ll have more experience with the seat adjust lever than actually flying the plane.

This is all fine if you stay with SilverJet and move to FO, but what if you want to leave, or Silverjet go bust? You’ve spent a lot of money and a lot of time learning how to fly - can you put up with being bumped out of the RH seat when any real flying needs done – for 2 years?

If you’re at a job interview for another airline, how much advantage is 24 months A/P monitoring actually going to give you over a guy with a new TR, you’re CV may still be put in the pile marked ‘never actually landed the thing’. Although you'll have an advantage over new TRs of knowing exactly what the best seat position is for you. You'd be looking for £35k+, and the low hour guys would probably take £20k+

I know I’ve over simplified this, but 2 years monitoring seems a very long time to me.

…just a thought.

TurboJ
14th Feb 2008, 18:08
I know I’ve over simplified this, but 2 years monitoring seems a very long time to me.


yep, you forgot to mention the wide body heavy jet experience, as well as the transatlantic, trans polar experience, with logging 757/767 P2 time.....

how much advantage is 24 months A/P monitoring actually going to give you over a guy with a new TR,

.........substantially more experience, I would say - you would be an expert at the aircraft systems, the routes, the sim and probably 500hrs or so in the log book......and £31k ish to pay the bills.

TJ

Thomas coupling
14th Feb 2008, 20:36
17p today, flying down in the weeds and no chance of extra lift methinks. Bye bye baby.......
Shouldnt have castigated ken L.:E

Dreamshiner
14th Feb 2008, 22:54
And the winner of most obscure post on a thread goes to . . . . . . . (drum roll) . . . . . . THE ONE ABOVE

Congratulations

mightymouse111
15th Feb 2008, 07:28
If the aircraft they were going to get to fly to the West Coast have been put on hold, then I presume that the Second officer positions needed to fly there will have also been put on hold.

Dreamshiner
15th Feb 2008, 09:11
I would still be surprised if they didn't hire the cruise pilots for 4 reasons:

a) The main restriction of an airline is rules, regs, etc. Captains aren't in the greatest supply plus they cost a lot so you want to optimise their usefulness. A cruise pilot extends the duty time of the more critical to flight F/O and Capt. Where I currently work a crew of three can have a duty time of up to 15 hours and a crew of 4, 17 hours. As a result and correct me if I'm wrong anyone but potentially SJ's layover time may be reduced if they fly with cruise pilots to current destinations of NY and Dubai. (that may cause a whirlwind on this thread now)

b) You expose someone to the airline industry gently without having to worry about flying a 180k aircraft. Over the two years the cruise pilots will be assessed, maintained in sim landings and licences kept current. The airline can also determine, based on their performance and character how likely they are to be a strong asset in the future. You'd be niave to think any airline does not look at and grade its young pilots for future commands, their work ethic, look at their sickness', demeanour and how they interact with other employees. Silverjet would get to do this over 2 years and cherry pick.

c) Don't quote me but IATA brought in a reg back in September about flights over water at night and a need for a third pilot. North American to European NATS are primarilly an overnight jaunt.

d) When/if they do roll out new routes then they are able to hit the ground running. Plus basic for a FO is £47k and £27k for a cruise pilot.

no sponsor
15th Feb 2008, 11:33
I would doubt S/O would be hired if the longer routes do not materialise. A company which is focusing on cash flow and consolidation will be putting S/O recruitment below other priorities. Do not blow your hard borrowed/earned cash on chasing a 767TR for these guys. Wait and see what will happen over the next 6 months or so.

As for the use of S/O, many ultra-long haul airlines use them, specifically Cathay and SIA. TNT are advertising for 744 S/Os now, which I suspect will be for some very long sectors. An F/O from my airline is about to join Cathay as a S/O on the 777, and he will only be a cruise pilot for the first 18 months, then gain a promotion to a F/O. I suspect he will be bored out of this mind after being a F/O on 737s and ATRs. I think he has around 2500hrs!

As a low houred pilot, you really need to build up experience in all phases of flight, from climb, cruise and descent. Descents and landings are the ones you'll need most practice on; so the more landings the better. This is really best done on short-haul flights, so you can get at least one landing per day, if not more. But of course, you'll take anything you can get, but just don't blow money on a TR without at least working out that if SJ go under, then what are your other options.

Dreamshiner
15th Feb 2008, 16:55
I can only speak for myself nosponsor but I have a 757/767 TR on my licence.

If nobody is hiring FO's to do the numerous t/o's and landings then you got to go with who is hiring. We all have to keep a roof over our heads.

I don't know how airlines or recruitment agencies work but I'd be interested to know if they place more emphasis on 12 months cruise pilot on a widebody trans-atlantic and 1 year FO opposed to 2 years on a ATR/Q400 short hops. I suppose it would depend on what your career aspirations are.

Last time I looked UK based companies looking for FO's were thin pickings except Ryanair and you need to pay for a TR there too.

Granted no hands on flying below 20,000ft but experience watching from the jumpseat beats working in an 9-5 office while holding a fATPL.

You can never get what you want in life, so you make do with what you can. Plus its not always about the quality of the flying, sometimes its about the lifestyle of longhaul vs. shorthaul.

I do echo your sentiments about SJ's position though, will be interesting to hear the financial predicitions in March when they are published.

littco
17th Feb 2008, 18:17
2 Articles in the FT last week and another in the Telegraph today, all hinting at the impending doom of the company. They need a 65% seat occupancy to make a profit and currently running at 60%. Read what you like into this but possibly not an ideal company to go and work for, from what i've read this week it doesn't look good for the company..

BIG MISTER
19th Feb 2008, 20:57
Quote from Silver Jet :-

On behalf of Silverjet I would like to thank you for your application.

Please note we are only able to consider those with a current 767 type rating and those that meet the requirements as advertised. If you do not meet the minimum requirements, I regret to tell you that your application will not be processed further on this occasion. Any future changes to the requirements will be advertised on our website.

For those that have the experience as advertised, thank you for your interest and we will be in contact in due course.

Unquote.......hope this saves some of you sometime ! :ok:

JB007
20th Feb 2008, 09:22
Take it from me, this deal is cr@p!!!!

The 3rd pilot is a CAA variation required on flights in excess of XYZ hours (Can't remember without getting my Part A out!) in order to gain more flying duty period. In Silverjet's case, at the cheapest way possible! I can see where they are coming from but it ain't a good deal for some poor SO who's paid 30k just so they can stretch these B762's to the US West Coast...

Certainly not an issue when flying to EWR or DXB.

But...

If the longer routes are not happening...then I would guess, the 3rd pilot isn't either...

Dreamshiner
24th Feb 2008, 23:33
As always someone on here reads a post, jumps the gun and goes in both barrels smoking without looking at the thread title or relevance, just because they saw one little comment that pinched a particular nerve ending and the rest mist decended.

What I said wasn't a statement (however your little rant could be justified possibly - and only by IM if it were), it was a question, granted I omitted to use the '?' which I understand has been universally adapted by most of the planet (except the Spanish who insist on turning it upside down).

The question was asked due to a conversation I had with a recruitment consultant who confided that he was not putting any turboprob guys forward for heavy jet jobs (quite why I don't understand but as it was less competition for me I wasn't going to argue why to my own detriment). Therefore I was looking to see if anyone (from personal experience) could back up or quash the premise.

However I do appreciate the condescending and patronising tone of your reply and I'm sure there are a number of cruise pilots out there who find your comments about their job being akin to Microsoft generated frolics equally offensive.

You may want to remove that sizable chip from your shoulder before the draft from your turboprob blows it off. I suggest altering your little blue lever to 'full fine' as this helps ..... so I'm told, I have yet to get to the lesson from Martha King on FSX.

Evident you love flying the Q400/ATR as you moved to India to pursue it. However I defy any newly qualified pilot to turn down a cruise pilot job 'No no, I am waiting for a turboprop job as it will make me infinitessimally a better pilot'.

Sorry to everyone else who has subscribed to this post and who may read it from now on, I advocate keeping threads on topic and get annoyed when they stray. However Flyerguy 'properly' just got on my tits.

Also for any aspiring or newly qualified pilots out there, be aware you will encounter a few people like this who insist that either your ability or morals are lacking for not following a certain path. I suggest you take what you need from what they say and swtich to autopilot for the rest. However ensure that you don't bring out a paper, magazine, novel and/or warm beverage in the process otherwise they will get rather upset.

dougy24
24th Feb 2008, 23:50
Question?

Has Flyer Guy actually flown a jet and done any long haul trips? he seems very well imformed as to what cruise pilots may or may not do !!!

Dream shiner.... i totally agree with what you say..and yes maybe the chip on his shoulder does not permit him to climb above FL240 !!

Mister Geezer
25th Feb 2008, 01:22
The Times - 6 Feb

Exclusively business class airline Silverjet plummeted by 23 percent, losing 8.75 pence to 29.25 pence, after the group announced its aircraft were only 54 percent full in January and that it will continue to lose money until the end of next month. Chief executive Lawrence Hunt nonetheless expressed optimism the group can make up January's shortfall in February and March. He said: "The board continues to be confident that Silverjet will achieve its first month of pre-tax profit and be cash generative in March 2008."

FT - 11 Feb

Billionaire UK property developers the Reuben brothers are ditching plans to take an equity stake in Silverjet , the first UK all-business-class airline, after a sharp decline in the company's share price. The brothers agreed last November to a 10 million pound convertible loan to the airline, which could be converted no later than Feb. 11 into equity at 60 pence a share. But with the share price falling on Friday to a new low of 24 pence -- having floated at 112 pence in May 2006 -- the airline is expected to announce on Monday the loan will remain as debt.

Come on folks... as they say you can't polish a turd! The future is hardly rosy for Silverjet, as much as I would like them to succeed!

The deal as a S/O is in all honesty a crap one. No hands on flying at all whilst doing the same if not at best, a very limited selection of routes. The only thing stimulating in the cruise will be reading the woeful tales of the airline industry in the broadsheet newspapers in between fuel checks. All for £28K as well and quite clever from Silverjet’s point of view since in that 2 year period you won't leave since you will be as attractive as a chocolate teapot since your flying skills will be rusty at best! So they get cheap 'labour' for a ‘guaranteed’ two years and you have to be type rated as well. Finally you can guess who devised this cunning scheme - yep the beancounters! :D

mightymouse111
25th Feb 2008, 07:37
Heard from inside the SJ camp that lots of CVs have gone missing, they have now selected those for interview but apparently lots lost in the system.

Pick me Flybe!
25th Feb 2008, 18:41
:ugh:

why the **** would anyone shell out 25k to get rated on the 767/757 to become a cruise relief pilot for 2 years and only get to fly when the FO wants out of his seat to go for a slash

If your gonna pay for a rating, pay for one where you are gonna get to fly the bloody thing, like Ryanair?

A mate of mine did an ATR rating at exeter for 16k and got a job the day after he finished his course as an fo with air aurigny

Stpaul
26th Feb 2008, 07:35
Agree, if you are going to pay for a rating, do one where you get to fly. BUT, if you already have a 767 rating, limited experience and no job, surely this is an opportunity to get that first step on the ladder.
I understand that they are only interviewing those with a rating, therefore the discussion about whether or not to pay is irrelevant.
It also does not matter what the future of the company is, because some experience and salary is better than none.

Mister Geezer
26th Feb 2008, 15:56
Generally airlines that use cruse pilots often have a fairly diverse network of routes. Eg Cathay... so even though you won't do any flying the difference in routes will provide that much needed stimulus to the work place.

With Silverjet as a Cruise Pilot, you are only probably going to operate on a very small selection of routes (unless they expand significantly). People are talking about experience etc but just what experience are you going to get sat in the cruise doing the same route trip after trip? The only decision you are likely to need to make is do we go left or right to get round that CB? :}

To sum up - if Silverjet had a diverse route network then it could be an interesting place to be a cruise pilot. Lets look at it from a different way - if you decided to move on from Silverjet imagine how you could describe your current role to your potential employer

• Do the same route or limited selection of routes!
• Potentially rusty flying skills!
• Limited oppertunities for gaining new experience.

Tempting catch for a new employer? :yuk:

Dreamshiner
29th Feb 2008, 00:56
See this is where this thread should not have went and I apologise to everyone out there who reads this little tet-a-tet.

Only thing that gets on my man boobs more than getting the someone going off on one without just cause or reason is people who insist on breaking down a previous post by copying quotes and attacking it.

I am not applying for Silverjet as I'm already in employment and I don't think leaving my secured 767 job for one not so secured is the right move at present.

If you read my original post again you can see there was no ambiguity its never questioned the competence of turboprop pilots.

I've nothing to apologise for mate except presuming by what you typed as your location was correct.

Thomas coupling
26th May 2008, 17:01
There you go: Silverjet in administration as of today. I did say they'd not survivie the year but May is a little early. The excuse is fuel costs. Smoke screen methinks?

Dreamshiner
26th May 2008, 17:08
A bit of solidarity for the 12 who were hired only a couple of months ago. Its not an ideal situation, hope it works itself out.

Now another load of pilots on the market this summer, the agencies with be getting excited.

potkettleblack
26th May 2008, 18:19
And 12 potential wannabes back on the market. If they are lucky they might pick up some work in the charters for the summer that might have otherwise gone to newbies.

world nomad
26th May 2008, 18:50
Thomas coupling says..."Silverjet in administration as of today"...can you tell me where you got this information from?

Aerobird
27th May 2008, 10:00
Yes, keen to know where this info has come from? Is this official?

LeavinonaJetplane
27th May 2008, 10:11
only place that rumour is seen..is on here?!
Business as usual at present - good luck over the next few days ladies and gents. I hope the news is good for you.:ok:

will fly for food 06
30th May 2008, 08:25
Does not seem like very good news this morning for silverjet.

wahwah64
30th May 2008, 08:32
http://www.flysilverjet.com/

heli_port
30th May 2008, 09:14
To our dear customers,
When our inaugural flight took off in January 2007, we pledged to change the face of air travel. Your appreciation of our unique values and your belief in our product has allowed us to achieve this.
Your belief in us was shared by our investors - but regrettably, due to unforeseen circumstances, they were unable to unlock the finance that we needed. As a result, we are very sad to announce that from 30 May 2008, we will cease operations and we are no longer able to honour flight reservations.
We extend our sincerest apologies to those of you who have travel plans with Silverjet in the future and at present. You are advised to seek alternative travel arrangements with other carriers, and contact your credit card company or travel agent directly for information on obtaining refunds.
We are working actively with new investors who are prepared to inject new funds so we can recommence operations. If we are able to achieve this, we will make an announcement as soon as possible and we hope to be able to bring you our very 'sivilised' flying experience again.
Thank you for your support - it has meant everything.

Yours sincerely,

Lawrence Hunt, CEO

Dreamshiner
30th May 2008, 11:49
Thomas Coupling, bit of insight there a few days ahead fo the rest, guess or inside info? Granted the writing was on the wall to a degree.

To all those affected, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

However, could you share who really killed JFK and this weeks lottery numbers forthwith (by PM naturally).

Thanks in advance

:)

no sponsor
30th May 2008, 14:15
Interesting that there are posts on this forum from those with 'inside' knowledge. It also happened with regard to Oasis, with someone posting a similar message a few days before that went under. I just hope no-one posts the same about my company.

Mister Geezer
30th May 2008, 14:25
One only needs to know if the planned investment is or is not going ahead. If it is the latter then the writing is on the wall - just a matter of time. With Oasis it was reported that the Reverend was not prepared to put any more funds into the airline. With no one else wishing to do so, then the outcome has to be inevitable!

no sponsor
30th May 2008, 16:19
I very much doubt this is a temporary shut-down. All consumer confidence in Silverjet is now lost, the brand name is a liability, and it is unlikely to ever return, unless funded by something akin the a Premiership club, which is unlikely. No doubt the receivers will be in today to sort out the assets and find buyers.

All companies seem to suggest they will return. Oasis and EOS both had messages similar to that of Silverjet.