Job opportunities for a 737 pilot

[rasper90]

Hi guys

I am an indian pilot on 737s thinking of immigrating to canada .Just wondering if i would get a flying job if i landed up there and got my licence converted.
I have got about 6000hrs of flying with about 1000hrs as capt. on b737 ngs and about 5000hrs of co pilot time on b737 and turboprops like the ATR 72/ Kingair b200/caravan F406 .
I make a take home salary of about 7500 usd .Any inputs to help me take a call would be really welcome.As you can imagine,its a big decision for me and my family.I expect to take a hit on the saving /earning potential but I am looking for a change in my family's way of life.Any positive /negative pointers would be welcome......
Thanks in advance

;)

[737-700pilot]

Hi there how are you.

I was born in India never lived there however. Been in Canada all my life. And I going to tell you one advice from my side. Don't leave your current job. I'm a captain here too. With you salary you can live like a king in India. After taxes and other deductions which are almost 50%, and I have to save 20% for a savings cause I don't have a pension plan. I take home $3600.00 a month. Then I have to pay a mortgage of $1400.00, Utilities, food, insurence, gas, etc almost an additional of $600.00. Then other exspenses for entertainment. I am single so I get by pay cheque to pay cheque. But if you have children it's very difficult. And if you come you'll be coming as an F/O. We don't have DEC's in North America. So your starting wage will be 1/3 of what I make. The grass is always greener on the otherside, so you think. But it's not, it's the same pile of **** everywhere. STAY PUT. Cheers:=

[asiarocks]

Hi,

Couldn't agree more. Starting from scratch in Canada will put you at about 38-40K a year. Losing half of that to tax and having to support a family makes it nearly impossible. Let's hope this Canada can catch up with the rest of the world in terms of salary in the near future. The pilots here have been abused too long.

[dash8pilotCanada]

Its not the airlines who are at fault its the government. A 3rd year FO at westjet flying the B737 NG makes 100K per year or 8333CAD/ Month. More than a captain in India, but after takes that becomes 4150$..

[clevlandHD]

Canada is a great country for average labourers but it hits hard on people who are making above average income. That's why so many Canadians pilots move abroad.

Right now, India is booming (comes with its pains, I know) and Canada in holding its breath about the recession South of the border... If I were you, I would stick to India.

[rasper90]

Thanks alot for all the feed back.the info is as i suspected it might be.I suppose I really need to think things out carefully before plunging in.Once again thanks for the frank replies from every one relly appreciate it..
cheers

[v6g]

Canada's taxes aren't as bad as they all make out. Someone on 35-40k won't be paying 50%, more like 15-20% on their paycheck. Sure there are other taxes (gas tax, property tax, etc...) but let's consider it all into perspective.. True, the top marginal tax rate is almost 50% but that's only on earnings above about $120k a year.

Besides, you get a lot better value for your tax dollar in Canada than you do in most other developed economies (health care, law enforcement, public recreation facilities).

[northeast canuck]

True, but an experienced 737 captain should be earning over $120k a year, not $38-40k. The problem with Canada is there aren't really any jobs available that provide an income commensurate with his experience.

[saudipc-9]

an experienced 737 captain should be earning over $120k a year, not $38-40k

Which company pays only 38-40K for a captain?

He would come over as a FO and get paid as such. I have over 5000hrs military experience but that does not give me a leg up on the financial ladder.

just my 2cts (before taxes) worth.

[northeast canuck]

That's my point exactly. He's a pilot with command experience on the 737. In most parts of the world, he would be able to find employment as a direct entry captain, albeit not in a legacy airline. There are almost no such opportunities in Canada and most experienced pilots would not want to "start again". Especially at those terrible wages.

[pic_on_B737NG]

Sunwing Airlines in Toronto is actively looking for Direct Entry Captains for its fleet of B737-800. First year base salary is $80,000 second year base salary is $100,000.

www.flysunwing.com (http://www.flysunwing.com)

[H2Opirate]

Hey but no one has HOCKEY like in O'Canada...:D
Im an SWA pilot in the US and have been considering a move, lots of variables...

[V2-OMG!]

Excellent comments from those in the know.

WestJet, which is now the #2 airline in Canada and only has 737s in its fleet and is based in Calgary, a city with very high housing costs. The average home price in Calgary is approaching half a million. In Vancouver, the average home price exceeds that.

That certainly would be a major consideration for anyone thinking of immigrating to Canada - particularly Western Canada.

[st7860]

Taxes in Canada are nowhere near 50%, unless you make over $100,000 per year. There is plenty of real estate in Calgary AND Vancouver that doesn't cost $500,000. You just have to not expect a 2000 foot house.

[Capt Apache]

Hi buddy.totally understand your predicament.but the fact is that if you apply for migration as a skilled worker to canada today while you are still in India your application wont even come up for processing until another 3 years atleast.with your salary it wont be a problem for you to apply now.all you have to do is fill up a form and send it to the embassy with the processing fee which is about Rs 50000 for a couple.The canadian authorities are trying to streamline and expedite the process of immigration but trust me the number of desi applications they get is not funny.if you apply today you will only get the permanent resident status after about 3-4 years.by then you will have a lot more savings and experience.Also if you decide not to go all you lose is the processing fee.and if im not wrong once you get the resident status you have an additional three years within which you must move to canada or you would have to reapply.that means you have about six years to plan.I agree that the pay in canada would be sad but there are a lot of benefits that they get for paying those high taxes.I strongly suggest you fill up that form tomorow.You can decide whether or not to move depending on your mood and situation when you application is approved.Atleast that way you will have an option and all you stand to lose is about half a lac.check the canadian governments website on immigration.Good luck

[st7860]

it is true that desi applications under the skilled worker category take over 3 years. but after you get the visa, you have until the date your medicals(immigration) expire, which is usually one year from the date you took your immigration medical.

after you arrive, you are allowed to spend up to 2 years out of every 5 years outside of canada. time spent outside canada while working for a canadian company qualifies as well.

[Capt Apache]

Thanx for correcting me St.
The thing is that once your applicaton is approved the Canadian immigration authorities give you a visa to go to Canada.Once you go to Canada you then get your Canadian Green Card.If for some reason you do not go and your medical expires you hav to start the whole process again.But I believe that once you get your GC you must then spend atleast three years out of the next five years living in Canada.So it seems that you can technically still live in India for another two years after getting your Green Card.This is what a friend who recently migrated told me but I havent found it written anywhere.If some one could please verify.

[northeast canuck]

Capt Apache,

Almost right, but it's two years out of every five in Canada (730 days technically). So you get three years to move there once you have "landed" yourself. There is also a get-out clause which states that days outside of Canada but with a Canadian citizen also count towards this total, so if you are married to one, then no worries about counting the days. Its all on the immigration website, although the fine print requires digging.

[st7860]

so, fulfilling ONE of a or b or c qualifies someone to keep their status.

a) being in Canada at least 730 days every 5 years or b) living with a Canadian Spouse overseas or c) working for a Canadian company(such as Westjet, AirCanada, etc)

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/canada-europa/france/visas/res_retour-en.asp
Permanent residents comply with the residency obligation if, for at least 730 days in every five-year period:
they are physically present in Canada or,
they are outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent or,
they are outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province or,
they are outside Canada accompanying a permanent resident who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent, and who is employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province

[Capt Apache]

Okay guys that was great help.
I have about 3000 hrs on B 737(F/O).Now the 737 is endorsed on my Indian license.If I were to clear the Canadian Atpl would I also have to do some sort of simulator training on 737 in Canada to endorse it on my Canadian license or would they recognise my experience here in India and endorse it anyway.Also,I understand that there is a provision where you get a years permit to fly in Canada without converting your license.Is that right?

[northeast canuck]

st7860,

"There is plenty of real estate in Calgary AND Vancouver that doesn't cost $500,000. You just have to not expect a 2000 foot house."

Just published today, the Feb 2008 real estate figures for Greater Vancouver state that the AVERAGE house price was $623,517.

[st7860]

I know. Houses in Vancouver are sky high. Thats why I said if you want Real Estate here you have to not expect a 2000 square foot house.

Instead, think of a flat.

[northeast canuck]

Not exactly an attractive prospect for experienced captains who most likely have families!

[st7860]

Yes, you're exactly right. So, houses are expensive in Vancouver. and that $620,000 you quoted as average probably would get you no more than 1200 feet, and even if you found one that cheap, it would probably be older than the boeing company itself! and so, most people would have to go for a flat or a town home to be able to live in Vancouver.

The reason why Vancouver houses cost more than Calgary is because there's more to do. Suppose a Captain lives in Calgary and flies for Westjet. So when he is off duty, what can he do in Calgary? Calgary is still a city, and so there's things to do in there(parks, shops, and so on but not much else) Suppose his family wants to drive somewhere outside the city? there's not that many places to go nearby In Vancouver, its a short 1 hour drive to the United States, or a half hour drive to the ferry terminal to Vancouver Island, or an hour or so to various mountains.


http://www.realtylink.org/prop_search/Detail.cfm?MLS=V694870&REBoards=All&From=MLS
$419,000 1116sq ft town home, 2 parking spots, near the future train line to the airport. 20 years old. this is in VANCOUVER

http://www.realtylink.org/prop_search/Detail.cfm?MLS=V692848&REBoards=All&From=MLS
$548,000 178 feet, house. 29 years old. it is in RICHMOND. Richmond is a city just beside the airport.

suppose the buyer doesn't have the typical 20% down payment required for a house. if he/she has a decent job its easy to get a mortgage with as little as 5% down, and its guaranteed by the government. there is no sub prime mortgage crisis in Canada, just in the USA.

[northeast canuck]

I'm with you all the way on the reasons why Vancouver is a great place to live. Personally I think it's the best place to live, in any country!

Interestingly the BCREA market report attached to the recent "average" prices indicates that the Vancouver market is having one of its slowest starts in five years, so maybe things will start to become sensible again. Good news (or bad news) depending on your position I guess.

The sub-prime mortgage crisis may not exist in Canada (however I wouldn't be surprised if the banks eventually admitted otherwise) but it is soon to become everyone's problem. This is happening very quickly, worldwide, right now. Have a look at this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/03/14/cndollar114.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox)

Canada's property cycle is lagging few months behind many other western countries, just watch what is happening in the UK - it will be coming to Canada shortly!

Watch this space!

[V2-OMG!]

I don't know where some of you are getting your information about Vancouver real estate.

The market is definitely not cooling. That $600+ average home price is now closer to 1 million. A 50 year-old rundown 1,200 sq. ft. bungalow on the west side of the city will be listed over that...and many sell higher than their listing price. A city condo goes for about 1/2 million.

Vancouver is one of the world's most desireable cities to live, according to umpteen "quality of life" lists which are published yearly. That, coupled with the hoopla of the upcoming 2010 Winter Olympics is adding to the real-estate boom.

However, we may be so desirable that we are becoming undesirable....because of our high property costs. How can spending 70% of a dual-income family's budget on housing enhance one's "quality of life?"

[st7860]

there are plenty of indocanadians and chinese bumping up prices.

[northeast canuck]

The information was released by the British Columbia Real Estate Association. Make of it what you will. But the figures are for the "greater" Vancouver area.

Anecdotal evidence is usually misleading! And remember that asking prices will always have an element of "drag" on them - ie people will continue to ask prices based on recent history even though reality may be different (and selling prices take time to filter through to statistics).

In my opinion, you need to spend at least $800k for a decent family home in a decent school catchement area.

[V2-OMG!]

The information was released by the British Columbia Real Estate Association. Make of it what you will. But the figures are for the "greater" Vancouver area.


My apologies, canuck. I understood your info. to be reflective of real estate within the Vancouver city limits - not the greater Vancouver area.

Yes, the 600G figure would be an accurate reflection of the average home price in the GVRD. (Greater Vancouver Regional District).

[northeast canuck]

No matter what way you look at it, "greater" or not - it's HUGE cash! Let's face it, as an airline pilot you are looking at renting someone's basement suite.

Solution? Give up aviation, get a Realtor's licence and start earning those commissions!:ok:

[J.O.]

Solution? Give up aviation, get a Realtor's licence and start earning those commissions!:ok:

Take it from someone who's tried it. Most professional pilots don't have the personal makeup (i.e. the inner scumbag) that it takes to be a realtor, particularly when the market takes a dip and peoples' standards get tossed out the window in order to keep making money.

[V2-OMG!]

Take it from someone who's tried it. Most professional pilots don't have the personal makeup (i.e. the inner scumbag) that it takes to be a realtor, particularly when the market takes a dip and peoples' standards get tossed out the window in order to keep making money.


As they say, 20% of the realtors sell 80% of the listings.

Are 20% of the pilots doing 80% of the flying?
I don't think so!

[northeast canuck]

Most professional pilots don't have the personal makeup (i.e. the inner scumbag) that it takes to be a realtor

What about management pilots?

[er340790]

If you can cope with 100 consecutive days of rain, that is.......

Get east of the Rockies and enjoy 2200+ hours of bright sunshine a year - over 6 hours a day, every day - even if it is -35c! ;)

[DHC6to8]

edited at the request of another

[Wolfman]

Hey Rasper, check out Sunwing, I hear they're hiring DEC's for their 737-800's.

[MidgetBoy]

Heh, housing in Vancouver is through the roof.
My house value went up $100,000 a year for the past 10 years. That's better income than working in an airline.

Housing on the East Side went up about $400k each in the past 5 years for a small house.

And Richmond is obviously cheap. It's like buying yourself a sinking coffin.

[Willie Everlearn]

Sunwing??!
That's a joke.
I have over 10000 hours and they never even so much as acknowledged my application.
If a Canadian can't get into Sunwings, how the hell can a newly arrived immigrant???:ugh:
My advise would be to stay in India and make a decent salary for your trouble. The money will go a lot further there than the same amount will in Canada, after taxes. :ugh:

Good luck in the future.

Willie :ok:

[bigmc]

Willie, if you have 10,000 hours and can't get a job with Sunwing perhaps there are some skeletons in your closet. Remember this industry is small and people remember people from all walks of life on this earth.
Having said that, try again, [email protected]

[Willie Everlearn]

bigmc, thanks for the encouragement.
I won DISGRUNTLED EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH once. Fuctup my probation.

I'm doing fine without Sunwing, thanks. But, I don't think I said I couldn't get a job there. I haven't played my "who you know" card yet. It just sounds like a fun outfit to work for. (maybe that's why the disgruntled flavour to my previous post)

Unfortunately, not much has changed in the Canadian Airline "industry" in the last 25 years, salary-wise, has it? :ugh:

It's still nice to submit your resume to a company and get something in return? Even if it's blow it out your ear. Just like the old days. For some of us, I guess, that would be old fashioned. Maybe that says a little bit about my age and a lot about the industry. :ok:

never let 'em think ya give-a !

Willie

[bobobs1011]

If your India lic is ICAO recognized, you simply apply for the same here.