Crunch time in Australia - degree or not?

[rudy.fidao]

Hi there guys - I'll have to admit this my first post. I did see the notice saying something about non-ATPL/professional stuff to be in the Private forum, but I wasn't really sure that my post would qualify as much related to private flying. I apologise if my judgement will prove to be in error!

My name is Rudy, I finished College in 2006 before doing a gap year working for an engineer here in Tasmania (College being Year 12 for you chaps interstate) with high results. I am almost about to do what is the inconceivable to my friends and pull out of a offer to study Medicine, in pursuit of a career as a pilot, which is what I have always wanted to do. It's a tough decision really, as every day pilots' pay and conditions seem to be getting worse, airlines are getting less and less caring about staff etc. - and I'm sure I don't even have half an idea as I'm not actually in the industry.

Anyhow, I tried at the Qantas cadetship but unfortunately didn't manage to proceed past the psychometric tests (bloody folding cubes!) I recently went to Europe to see some family on QF and visited the flight deck (after landing) of every flight with them, and spoke to the pilots on their aircraft. There seem to be varying views about whether or not it is useful to get a degree (whether related to aviation or not) amongst those to whom I spoke. A couple of 737 pilots seemed to think that getting hours up and just getting some training would be more useful than spending large amounts of time and money doing a degree first/during training. On the other side a 744 FO seemed to think that a degree can definitely help separate you out in the selection process later on at a larger airline such as Qantas. I also notice they send their cadets through a degree type program (aviation degree that is).

So I suppose the question is - what's the best way to set myself up for a career later on with a larger airline such as Virgin/Tiger/Jetstar/QF?

Is a degree really that useful in the selection process?

Should I do a Swinburne/General Flying Services-type aviation/training course, which gives you an aviation degree?

Or simply start flying (much harder than it sounds when I start to think of money)/try out for the Rex cadetship?

There is a school/airline here in Hobart called Tasair that offers Cert IV/CPL training - I don't suppose anyone knows anything about it/has any views?

Everyone (including the QF pilots) is saying there's never a better time to get into flying - but are jobs getting easier to find (as the flying schools keep telling me) after your CPL to build hours up for a larger airline? Is there still a lot of "out bush" stuff needed for hours?

I'm not particularly enthralled at the idea of doing an unrelated degree FIRST, then starting to learn to fly - imagine the debt! But seriously, I posted here to ask anyone in Australia/outside of it that has an idea, what their ideas or opinions are. I hope this isn't a thread you see every day - I did have a look-see around at the FAQ degree question (semed to be specific to England) etc.

I'd really appreciate some advice - airlines tend not to give it, flying schools want your money etc...

Kind regards, and thanks to anyone who can help.
Rudy Fidao

[atminimums]

Rudy,

A valid question indeed. I tend to think that a degree does teach you skills, whether or not aviation related, that can only help in situations such as getting a job. Additionally, a degree serves as a plan B, or something to fall back on in times of a crises.

Alternatively, building a flying career without a degree seems perfectly viable as well, especially at the moment. Either way, your going to be flying, and if you're persistant you will find yourself in the right seat (eventually the left!) of an airliner.

Swinburne seems like a great solution, as it mixes the two.

Bottom line is, do what you love. If you love flying, then do it. On the other hand, if your passion is medicine, then follow that path. Remember, you will get there eventually :ok:

Keep your confidence, and don't worry too much about the negative points. Every industry has its downs.

Regards,

Mins

[737pnf]

Rudy,
thought about Griffith University's Gadiate Diploma of Aviation Management AND/or Bachelor of Aviation? It seems a great way to get into it if you don't have the money (but PLEASE, have your heart in it. Don't do it 'cause "...looked like a good idea at the time?!" Accidents happen like that, and as my instructor pointed out to me very early, you will literally kill yourself if you don't pay attention)

I believe it's a good thing to have in case of the unexpected (imagine an injury that meant you were unable to fly ever again)! Also, if you think this may interest you, try a career in ATC? I hear they pay almost as well as pilots? If i had my time again, I'd have done it straight out of high school (assuming there weren't any age restriction)

[rudy.fidao]

Hi there guys - thanks a lot for your advice. It's helped me take a little step back from everything and look at the big picture. I am still deciding how so, but both of you had made good points. I'm pretty sure the degree in QLD you pay for the flight training up-front yourself, and the degree is covered by HECS (same with Swinburne).

Thanks again for your helpful replies, I appreciate it!

Kind regards
Rudy

[downwind]

might try to look at these programs;

qantas link http://qantaslink.bfound.net/detail.aspx?jobId=58265&CoId=189&rq=7

cathay http://www.flighttrainingadelaide.com/scholarship-program/scholarship-welcome

rex http://www.regionalexpress.com.au/cadetpilot/Default.aspx

atawa http://www.atawa.com.au/

jetflite http://www.jetflite.com.au/

sharp airlines cadetship http://sharpairlines.com/

[miss_pilot]

no, with the griffith one the cost of the bachelor of aviation goes to hecs, and the cost of the graduate diploma of flight management (= flight training) goes to fee help. so its not up front. the good thing about uni is that you learn things that will help you on the job, espicially out bush, that isnt flying, eg everything that goes into being a cheif pilot in NT. as well as that you get to meet people that are going to be great contacts in the future, have alot of fun and if ur lucky get into the cadetship as well.

[Mark_1990]

Hey Guys,

Thought i'd post a comment since we are basing our conversation on the degree or not decision. Well i've just commenced my bachelor of aviation course at griffith university and all is going well so far. A few weeks back a qantas 747 captain emphasized the fact that getting this particular degree will better our chances for the future and will make us work ready in no time. With the pilot shortage predicted for the next 10 years, he did say now is the best time to get onboard and that this particular degree which has been established with Qantas is a never before seen opportunity. To all out there that are considering this opition, as mentioned above, the uni aspect is covered under HECS whilst the flying/grad diploma (qantas cadetship) is covered by HELP. There is however a catch ..... flight tests, CASA fee's, medicals etc etc etc are all self funded and total to about $16,000 ..... so be prepared.

One more thing, choose your subjects in school wisely, it's only my second actual teaching week and the workload is massive. I done physics, biology, math B and C in high school and the workload is still horrible. First semester will involve human biology, physics and math, so be well prepared!!

Cheers,
Mark

(p.s. i've noticed a lot of people doing my course aren't really there to become Airline Pilots, so please those who have their hearts set on something else please don't waste your time :) )

[flyboy55]

hi

i seem to think that these days it wont madder much if you have a degree or not. With the so called ''pilot shortage'' it wont madder much. However dont get me wrong its still great.

the money spent on a degree in aviation is much better off spent on practicle flying hours...in my opinion

[Mark_1990]

Yer mate ..... it is proberbly well spent on flying hours, but what you have to remember is that this course is fully paid for by the government, and you only commence repayments when you start earning a taxable income. This has been the barrier for most potential pilots, and it's not every day an oppurtunity like this arises. As well as the bulk of your flying paid for, during this course, providing you get into the qantas cadetship in the 3rd year, you will complete the cadetship, and then be placed into the 'compulsory industry placement program' which obligates you to work in the GA for 2 years to gain experience under Qantas supervision. If you have progressed at an appreciable rate, then you may just be flying for qantas soon after. Mate some say its not worth it some say it is, but all in all its how you yourself perceive the whole situtation, but it is definately a worthy oppurtunity to get your foot in the door much quicker than normal :)

cheers

[blow.n.gasket]

I hope spelling isn't part of the Qantas cadet selection criterion!
Judging by the above posts, pickings would be quite slim ,that might explain the pilot shortage!:ooh:

[Mark_1990]

yer mate forgive me for my atrocious spelling, it's what happens when you don't proof read (Y)