RAF Aborted Rescue

[NavyTorque]

Good to see the survivors from the Scillies rescue now safe in hospital at Treliske.

I watched with interest the SKY News description of the Horrendous storm conditions and sea state that caused the RAF Rescue crew to abort the rescue. I am a little confused because as I looked at the IR footage taken by the RAF Rescue Helicopter as the crewman described the conditions I didn't notice the 180' 15000 tonne vessel moving very much - was it the actual vessel in question or a large vessel from library footage?

If it was the vessel in question - It is interesting to see how 2 crew members could be clearly seen on the massive deck, standing unaided and smoking a cigarette throughout?

I listened with interest to the Royal Navy crew describing the calm conditions they encountered shortly afterwards - a strange met phenomena also?

Crab - perhaps you could help us out here? - good job we weren't relying on Civvy SAR boys eh??

Good Job at Blackpool lads!

[Shackman]

Didn't take long for the willy waving contest to start!

[Gainesy]

I am a little confused

Navy Torque,
The vid to which you refer was of the previous night's (Thursday) rescue from the Riverdance (dodgy name for a boat?) which was listing and aground off Blackpool, not the one last night in the Western Approches where the Master was injured. Sky was showing the vid whilst also covering the first SK attempt from Cork.

[renfrew]

Navy Torque re civvy SAR

The Stornoway coastguard S92 has just rescued 14 crewmen from a trawler aground on St Kilda way out in the Atlantic.
"In extreme weather conditions,a very hazardous operation"
A female pilot also involved,Captain Liz Forsyth,ex RAF SAR.

[Widger]

Shackman,

It is not about willy waving, it is about journalistic competence. There were 3 organisations involve in rescues yesterday, the RN, the RAF and the Coastguard. It is frustrating when if it flies it must be the RAF, if it is wearing green it must be the army, if it is Iraqistan it must be the army also.

[St Johns Wort]

The story is unfolding of an amazing rescue undertaken in mid atlantic by a lone Royal Naval Airman. It appears that a one eyed monoped Naval pilot rescued 32 people from an upturned umbrella 2000 miles off the coast of Ireland in his autogyro.

After landing at Shannon this naval hero, wearing his eye patch at a jaunty and heroic angle, was suitably modest about his acheivment saying that his only regret was not being able to take the umbrella under tow to claim the salvage and bolster his rum bum and bacci fund.

He denied that he was starting a willy waving competition as he had had his bitten off by a kai tai round the back of 'Ned Kellys' back in '65. However, he is more than willing to enter into a stump wiggling competition with any Crab or Brown Job who thinks that they are not man enough.

[Beeayeate]

The story is unfolding of an amazing rescue undertaken in mid Atlantic by a lone Royal Naval Airman.

My gawds I know that bloke. Stout fellow, gets all his footware free from the displays outside shoe shops.

[HAL9000]

Navy Torque,

Another post full of insight, well done.

[St Johns Wort]

I would never ask anyone to justify how many people he can get in his autogyro.

BTW I hate to sound pickie but an autogyro is'nt, strictly speaking, a helicopter.

[Shackman]

When I first logged on I was set to praise the competence of all those involved in the rescues over the last 24 hours, whatever colour of their uniform - again expecting to see something in similar vein in the first post. However it would seem that point scoring came first.

I have done night rescues, albeit in the days (nights) before NVG and other goodies that are now available, and would be the first to admit that it was bl**dy hard and I was quite glad that most went to the SK and us Wessex guys were only used in extremis by RCC. However, even harder is the point where you say NO, whether because it is just too dangerous for the winchman and/or crew, or fuel/PLE becomes a critical factor, or for weather or any other of a myriad problems. The ac captain has to make a decision which may not always be the one that people sitting safe in their ops room like, or allow others like NT to make snide comments about, but it is why he is captain. Luckily, when that crew returned another one from RNAS Culdrose was available to go - a Rescue crew, it matters not RAF, RN, Coastguard or otherwise.

That is why it is called teamwork. It is what we do, but there are always those who wish to score points (and wave their willeys inthe air) in favour of one service. Yes the press frequently get it wrong, but that does not alter the opinion of the professionals who go out there and get the job done. They know who, what, where and when.

I raise a glass to you all this evening. :ok:

Shackman

[[email protected]]

Navy Torque - when a crew try for an hour to get a winching opportunity and then knock it on the head, you know the conditions were bad. 200 miles out in the dark (the light levels were less than 1 millilux) in 8m seas is not a nice place to be.

The aircraft Captain showed great maturity (he is just coming to the end of his first tour) in electing not to put the winchman onto the deck. I suspect that since the boat crew's injuries were serious but not life threatening, he made the right decision in this case rather than risk breaking the winchman and endangering the casualty (who had spinal injuries) further.

It is only a few years since an RN crew broke all their hi-lines trying to get the winchman on a nasty night deck in similar conditions and had to leave it to an RAF crew who got there later and did the job. Does it prove anything? No, other than SAR can be a nasty, difficult job and even the best crews can struggle in horrendous conditions.

Well done to all the SAR boys and girls:)

[Tourist]

Crab, you are quite right about that time when we couldn't get someone off the deck, and the RAF did the next morning in daylight.

But did you boys give my crew some banter?
Oh yes you did.

And your guys got AFCs

[kelper]

Any SAR crew, military or civilian, who risk all, to rescue those in distress have my utmost respect and admiration.:ok:

P:mad: contests between units are puerile.

[skyepup]

Doesnt matter who did it.

Over the past few days, all the different crews (RAF, RN, CG) have performed pretty damn good rescues.

Well done all.

[OmegaV6]

According to the reports I read there was around 3 hours time difference between the attempted rescue and the successful one.

The change in weather in 3 hours can be considerable, and I know of no SAR helo with a 3 hour loiter time at a range of 200 miles.

Full marks to both crews, the first for trying in deplorable conditions, and having the sense to know when enough is enough; and the second for a successful rescue.

IMHO some of the comments in this thread say more about their writers than they do the subject in hand.

[St Johns Wort]

Why are you all taking NTs crap so seriously. He's a wind up merchant. Give him some back or ignore him but whatever you decide to do, ditch the self righteous indignation as its faintly ridiculous, given the result of the job which speaks volumes for itself.

[[email protected]]

Tourist - banter between professionals is expected:)

[Thelma Viaduct]

I can only talk about the Cleveleys rescue because I was there. The flying skill of the pilot that night/ Friday morning is something I won't forget in a hurry. The ship was pitching, yawing and rolling as well as the crew having to deal with the very strong winds and heavy spray.

Whether it was RAF, Navy or Civvy I have no idea.
Not that it matters.
The whole crew deserve a big pat on the back for what they did/do.

No doubt some anally retentive karsehole will disagree. :ugh:

[NavyTorque]

Guys - I only asked whether the footage was the correct footage because it didn't seem to match up and I was concerned that people might get the wrong idea?

I am heartened that as Harmonisation approaches that all of us agree that the Navy, RAF and Civvy SAR units all have much to offer and that we are best represented if we understand each others differences and don't just jump in on the back of which service did it and commence the debrief accordingly.!!

Crab, just one point concerns me - I am confused that you have to mention that the aircraft captain was only just coming to the end of his first tour - surely you are not putting forward the argument that there are possibly other RAF crews who could have done the job - or are you saying that you are not sure he was ready to be a SAR Captain?? must be one or the other else no point mentioning it???

Crab good to see that you are getting ready for Harmonisation - The recruiters at Bristows and CHC can't wait for your application mate!

XXX

[Vie sans frontieres]

Navy Torque. Please stop torque-ing. Wind-up merchant you may be but you're just embarrassing yourself.

[[email protected]]

Nice try NT but if you read the post properly (without dribbling:)) you will see I highlighted the maturity of the first tourist captain in making a difficult decision.

Harmonisation?....ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Vie sans frontieres]

More to the point, you're embarrassing the Navy and in particular the Culdrose crew who did the job. Their Captain (I presume he was the Captain) was quite modest about the rescue and the conditions at the time compared to the night before, despite the best efforts of the Sky News presenter to sex it up.

[[email protected]]

NT - just out of interest, the footage that was released was taken by the crew and they removed the previous 30 seconds where the winchman got slammed against the vessel as it rolled violently towards him (he didn't want his family to be distressed since he was still in Cork with no phone and the footage went out straight away). Despite the difficulty of the situation, he still managed to deploy the hi-line but the genius boat crew threw it overboard!!

After that, the vessel had to change heading to avoid a cable-layer that wasn't responding to RT leaving an even trickier winching scenario (parallel deck at 130' with limited references in a 30 to 40 foot swell). Eventually they had to bin it because they were down to chicken fuel.

I have watched a lot more of the footage and it is clear how much the boat was moving.

[Master Mariner]

Now why might a cable layer be there in the western approaches....and not responing to RT.......

Good Job by all involved regardless of service:) I am sure the skipper rescued didn't care about the variety of Uniforms.

[Lurking123]

I take my hat off to the SAR Boys, regardless of service.:D

[IrishSarBoy]

I'll just add my voice to all those who said ' they don't care who does the job as long as it gets done!'. Be over to Chiv in the next few weeks for a cup of tea, see you soon lads.:)

[NavyTorque]

Crab - Don't be silly - in these days of mobile phones and modern telecoms I am sure that the crew were able to phone home! You are not bantering very well mate!

Now the Pilot is safely home and his family know he is safe - can we all see the footage of how much the boat was moving when we weren't looking?? Maybe YOU could post the scary parts on YouTube?

NT

[NavyTorque]

Oh sorry I nearly forgot

In reply to Vie Sans Frontier ...... The Navy Captain was very modest about his efforts!!! .... My Point exactly VSF ....

To paraphrase Churchill ........he had much to be modest about!!

NT

[[email protected]]

Yes NT - I believe he was the American exchange officer on 771:)

The only phone the crew had was the Radops I-phone since the 2 new aircraft mobiles hadn't had the international roaming activated - doh!

It was the winchman not the pilot (I know reading isn't your strongest suit) and no, I wouldn't post it on youtube, you'll just have to come to Chiv to see it:)

[SARREMF]

Punch him Crabb, when he turns up, punch him!

Often the best form of banter!

Well if nothing else, with this particular thread, I have learn't how to spell 'puerile'. A word I have often wanted to use but never been sure how to spell.

I have often said it, the hardest decision is saying no! Well done that Captain for showing Captaincy. Well done the RN crew for doing the job later on. And well done Liz for getting the people off St kilda - now there is a nasty little place with the wrong wind direction!

[6Z3]

I don't know Liz.......and with her nasty little place and bad wind, I not sure I want to.......
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.....but then again......:\

[Fareastdriver]

Having been to St Kilda when it has been blowing a bit I will add my piece.
I have flown with women pilots and having been brought up in an age when it was all blokes I was sometimes somewhat apprehensive. Some needed experience to mature and overcome the predudice from other male pilots but in the end they are as able as any other. Some were absolutely useless, as with others of the opposite sex. Liz demonstrated to me, and hopefully to anybody else who is living in the past, that they are capable of doing the job as well as anybody.
Taking the ATS as an example how many of the heros on this thread could climb into a Lancaster, with a page of A4 as a guide, and fly it solo across the UK.

[cazatou]

Fareastdriver

I think you meant ATA (Air Transport Auxiliary) rather than ATS (Auxiliary Territorial Service) which was the forerunner if the WRAC.

[Fareastdriver]

Must ghet mi kiboord fixt.

[luoto]

A question from a non military wallah.

How can (do?) you train for such a rescue? I understand the basic training concept in so far as winching up, down and suchlike is concerned. But how do you train/simulate something darker than a dark thing a long way from base with a lot of blowey wind and waves?

Or is it "just" down to good airmanship and training built on repetition of actual scenarios and training ex in better conditions?

No points scoring, just interested for own interest.

[Wader2]

A question from a non military wallah.

How can (do?) you train for such a rescue?

Or is it "just" down to good airmanship and training built on repetition of actual scenarios and training ex in better conditions?

You got it, training and then exposure and experience.

No different from Combat Aircrew etc. They train and train but the real thing may be doubled and in spades.

[luoto]

I can understand a lot of similarities but how can you train for winching someone down in a damn strong wind in the dark? I can understand you can "simulate" combat missions and do actual fast jet practice but short of hovvering from a fixed thing in a wintunnel it seemed very hard :)

Fair play to the crews for their skills.

[luoto]

Ah, thanks .) Seems often the obvious questions have an obvious answer. Quite a change in the risk averse society we inhabit. Thanks again

[cornish-stormrider]

Wot I heards from the eng shed at sunny chiv was that the curry had turned up at the shed and the crew were desparate to get back before the lineys snarfed it.......

That reminds me, is that big nosed freak dingy sailor Odo still hiding at chiv? and what about his mini fixing apprentice the woody??

As to the sailor boys picking up the casualties..... I heard they did it in Falmouth Harbour and then did a traditional Navy GPS buggers muddle and asked for tea, medals, a pay rise, two new flattops and a V/STOL aviating machine as a reward:ok: