Get in Quick!

[Baskitt Kase]

If you haven't done JOCC or ICSC, get in quick. Not only are they getting longer very soon, but I found out today that the bloke that tried to paralyze the AT world with the god awful BOCS system, is now involved with rewriting the courses and that they'll be delivered by computer! No prizes for guessing how this IT project will end up given the track record...

[Archimedes]

Unless something major has changed in the last 24 hours ICSC is not going to be delivered by computer...

JOCC is still (no pun intended) up in the air.

[Arty Fufkin]

My advice would be as follows:

If you havn't done JOCC or ISS well done! Keep it that way! The only qualification that of any use is an ATPL. Leave the rat race, abandon any asprations for promotion and kick back and relax untill your 38 point. You know it makes sense .:ok:

[drugsdontwork]

Couldnt agree more with Arty. Having just finished the pointless, tedious hassle that is ISS, Im staying well away from the JOCC. I really, really wish I had done my licenses last year instead, its narrowed my departure options now. If you missed the ELC registration first time round, your last chance is a 8-8.5 year window. I missed both!!

Get the impression that very few are considering going past 16 yrs.

[Monty77]

A word of caution. True, the ATPL is the most important, but I also did ISS as a kind of insurance policy. My 38 point coincided with the aftermath of Sep 11 when recruitment just stopped. I successfully applied for an extension beyond 16 years. I knew a bloke in the same situation who hadn't even done OCC and was out on his ear. Not even a ground tour. It's the RAF's opportunity to get shot of you as well, so not doing these things may not look good when you turn around at your 38 point and ask to stay in. There were loads of people back in 2003 who were asking just that.

You never know what the circumstances will be when you approach an exit point and may end up competing to stay in. After all, no salary is no joke. Nauseous as it was, ISS wasn't a patch on the jumping through hoops we had to do for an ATPL a few years back- ALL the bloodly exams:ugh:

So if you have the time, do ISS as well and keep your options open. There's talk of recession after all.

[2Planks]

Do both Flt Lt courses, continue to breathe and fly, get promoted to Sqn Ldr, leave at 38 anyway and take 40 years of Sqn Ldr pension vice Flt Lt- the difference is huge.

[whowhenwhy]

That's the plan! I've also heard that ICSC is going to be 8 weeks from Sept 08 - try and talk your boss into releasing you for 2 months to attend that. 3 weeks for guys to do OCC/AMLC etc is hard enough nowadays

[Lurking123]

Work a little harder and leave as a 3 year wg cdr at a 2 year deferred 38 point. Now that is a nice pension to start a second career.

[Monty77]

True, Lurking. But there's a price to pay. The road to Wing Commandery-ness is invariably strewn with unexpected cowpats. Not least your peers. The competition for that 'plum' Air Attache posting can get quite vicious, let alone the exchange tours over which lesser mortals tussle.

In the good old days if you kept your nose clean and stayed in, you could expect to tip out as a Groupie, with attendant pension. Without wishing to sound like the proverbial boring old fart, the economy pretty much dictates exit rates from the RAF. During a recession, you will be glad to be getting a regular pay packet, believe me.

[Monty77]

I've just noticed I've mentioned recession twice in a day.

For the record, I am a natural optimist who's glass is half full, not empty.

Er....that's it.:ok:

[Oggin Aviator]

really cannot see the point of them wasting their time when their colleagues in the Army and Navy don't.

The Naval ICSC is 8 weeks long and I believe Army Captains do a six (??) month course (!!). The Navy one has no distance learning (like ISS) - we do the staffwork (defence writing) bit in the first few weeks and then do the broader stuff (which makes up most of the light blue syllabus) afterwards.

IMHO the RAF have always been excellent at staffwork - if you cant now release people to do the course (due to obvious committments) then you will have less candidates down the line for ACSC and hence your always top notch staffing skills at the higher levels will suffer (again IMHO). Something to think about for the future.

Generally the Dark Blue strives to place people (with the correct seniority) on the course in between postings. I got bumped off it 5 times due to more important stuff going on with my Sqn(s) but managed it in between appointments. Bit of a laugh it was too, if you enjoy caffeine at 3 am !!

[Archimedes]

ICSC (Land) is for Army majors (it replaced the Captains' course), with two cohorts per year enjoying 32 weeks of learning about everything from international relations to hoop stress, via COIN, auto frettage [sp] and procurement.

All of which comes as a bit of a surprise to the LE RAVC chaps who know the remainder of their career is going to be spent looking after horses and regimental mascots...