PPL in 21 days!?

[187nj]

Hello.

Been looking into various schools over in the states.

There are two schools that say you can complete your PPL in 21 days. While I can get the time off work, I'm not convinced that personally I am capable of completing all the exams and flying in that time.
I've decided to go to ground school over here in the UK and once I have passed a few exams I will apply to one of the courses.

I'm a little unsure about doing this because I don't know weather I can sign up to one of the courses with already having a few exams passed and 5 hours in my log book. Also, what if I went onto one of the courses and still didn't manage to complete all of my training, would I be able to return to my school in the UK and finish off?

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

187nj,

To answer you question you can mix and match flight schools, but you must have a copy of your student records and exam certificates to take to your new school, so don't worry about that.

I think you have a sensible attitude with regard to the exams. If you can have them all done, it will make you life alot easier with regard to your flying. I did my PPL on one of these 21 day packages, infact I think all the flying was done in just over 2 weeks :eek:. Looking back and knowing what I know now about instructing, it was a little too much. I remember getting through the first few days and thinking I am not sure whether I can cope with this. This simply was the result of being so bloody tired! Anyway, as long as you put the work in and you have the weather, you will be fine and complete the course in the alotted time, but you will be knackered!

Enjoy your flying, it really is good fun.

[187nj]

CAT3C AUTOLAND

Thanks for the help.

What made you so tired?
How many hours per day were you studying for? (inc. gs, flying, exams etc)

I did ask one school if they could send me a student time table but they didn't have any.

[Re-Heat]

My logbook shows that many years back it took me:


4 weeks to do the first stage on a Flying Scholarship + paid for hours of my own
20 days for a holiday in which I did no revision / flying
6 days to complete in minumum (then 40) hours

All the exams done around the flying, and while I did not feel particualrly pressured at any time, weather was an issue.

I would say that if weather, aircraft and instructor availabililty, and ability are no issue, I would budget for 30 days. If you study hard / perhaps pass some exams before the 21 days, then certainly 21 days is do-able.

Groundschool was minimal; confuser use was high!

[187nj]

ha ha reheat you lived the boozy student life aye!!

What do you think to coming home and finishing off if I don't manage to complete the course. Dooable or will I have issue's?

[Gav28]

I took 2 exams before i left and that helped but ideally you want to get them all done.
Doing the flying in 21 days is no problem in theory but you will need good weather, instructor availability and no maintenance issues.
Its unlikely you will get a sustained period of all 3 at a Florida school so I think you will struggle.
I did it in June 2007-I lost a week to weather and my instructor left half way through my course, took my skills test on the last day. Ended up extending my stay so was there for about four and a half weeks. I did not know of anyone who got it done in 21days whilst I was there, although I've no doubt its possible if everything goes your way.
If you do it I would not recommend coming home without finishing.

[chris-squire]

Hi All,

the 21 day PPL is a thing of the past I'm afraid. OFT did do it and may even still advertise it but they are currently turning out students in roughly 6 - 8 weeks at best. There is a massive shortage of instructors in the US and 21 days just simply isn't realistic anymore. I would contact the FTO and take everything with a pinch of salt.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I looked at the 21 day PPL not long ago but have opted for a bit longer out @ MFC in the end.

CS :ok:

[jono1978]

I agree,

I went to OFT in FL last year to do the 21 day course, when I got there and said I need to have it done in 21 days they just laughed and said 'nobody does it in 21 days!!!' I managed to log about 30 hours and I had done all of my exams before I got there.

Despite all the advertising its unrealistic and I had to finish off back in the UK so altogether was very pricey.

[187nj]

What do you think is the main problem with coming home and finishing?

Just for example:

Go there with 5 hours and 2 exam certificates.

Come home with a total of 25 hours and 4 exam certificates.

That would leave 17 hours and 3 exams to finish in the UK.

Apart from money I don't see a problem unless I have to go back FL to finish.

[Irish_Stu]

I went to EFT in Nov/Dec '07 to do a PPL and came home with 27 hours flying after 6 weeks. Again, mainly due to aircraft availability, maintenance issues, and the odd spell of bad weather (but not much).
I had no problems joining a local club at home to finish. Main issues are getting used to the local airspace and RT (which I guess you'll have to do whether you finish in Florida or not) and getting used to the different aircraft. And obviously you will pay twice as much to fly in Europe as you will in the US.
Personally, if I was starting again and looking to do a PPL in a reasonably short time, at this time of year i would go to America and budget for 8 weeks to complete the course. It really is a major bonus having consistently good weather. Trying to do a PPL in Europe at this time of year is a case of two steps forward one step back due to the bad weather and cancelled lessons all the time. If I was doing it in summertime, I'd stay in the UK and do it. By the time you pay for your flights, visas and TSA clearance, accommodation for two months, food etc, and take unpaid leave from work, I just don't think it's that much cheaper to go to America.

[Leezyjet]

I completed my PPL in South Africa in 19 days from 0-40 hours.

Spent 15 days flying and 4 days on groundschool/days off to get it all done.

Granted I did have a very good understanding of the basics, as I had done a BGT course in the Air Cadets when I was 16, so breezed through those all in the first lesson and also having an interest in aviation and working in the industry I knew alot of the background knowledge stuff already.

I would NOT recommend doing it this way though. I was flying up to 3, 2 hour flights per day and studying in between flights and on an evening. :eek:

Looking back, it was just too much in such a short space of time.

For anyone who is going afresh with no knowledge/previous flying experience, I don't think it would be possible to complete in such a short time.

:\

[chris-squire]

I really don't think that these types of 'PPL Quick' courses are a good thing. I totally understand why a market exists for them and would never criticize anyone heading down the commercial road for doing this but I see it as a really important foundation to everything else thats to come. So, I would have to say that whilst the 21 day PPL seems to have come to and end I don't think this is a bad thing because it can only be a good thing if people have taken a bit more time over thier initial flight training.

In my somewhat humble opinion I think it's criminal for people that do a PPL with just a weekend hobby in mind to complete it in a few weeks. I don't say that with a view to pissing anyone off but the more safe flyers around the better right...

Happy Landings!

CS :ok:

[mcgoo]

Horses for courses surely, some people are suited to intensive learning, others are not, you still have to pass the skills test regardless.

As with driving passing the skills test is where the learning begins, gaining experience.

[MidgetBoy]

I've seen a PPL+CPL finished in 9 weeks.
21 days hurt, especially when it's not a specific course, but it's the student's own motivation that brings the pace up that fast. If you can, choose a specific instructor and stick with them the whole time.

[oliverpollard]

Hi.
Have to be honest, your chances of completing it in 21 days are extremely low, near impossible these days. There are so many factors that will need to go in your favour - weather, m/t, availability of planes, instructors, your aptitude etc.
I went to the States two years ago thinking I could do it in approx 21 days and it just doesnt happen. Took me five in the end.
However, there is no doubt that you get it done in 4-5 weeks if you have completed the ground exams beforehand. Not only will these ease the pressure on you, but you will be able to focus on the flying a little more and should also have time to enjoy yourself.
Good luck.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Oliver, you contradict yourself.

I went to the States two years ago thinking I could do it in approx 21 days and it just doesnt happen. Took me five in the end.


It only took you 5 days ;).

[oliverpollard]

LOL - CAT, I'm sure your joking....I expect someone of your intelligence realises that I mean 5 weeks! :)

[Long Taxi]

21 days for a PPL - luxury! When I took my PPL, MEP and IMC at OFT in 2003 they were still offering a VIP 14 day PPL!

Needless to say the success rates in 14 days was low and to even have a hope of achieving this the non-VIPs (everyone else - including me) were regularly bounced from aircraft slots that had been booked. Instructor assignments were often changed.

I like OFT - facilities & location work for me. However, it is not a place to go if you need your hand held and that is true even if you are planning to be there for more than 21 days!!

[187nj]

Hi Guys,

I finally did it - I enrolled with Anglo American in California. I am hoping to pass Aviaion Law, Meteorology and Pilot Performance before I go. I will be there for 21 days as of April 1st and hope to pass my PPL in that time (fingers, toes and whatever else crossed!).

I will report back to you all so that you have a better idea of what is actually happening in the 21 days.

All the best.

Neil

[Irish_Stu]

187nj,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but make sure you get complete TSA clearance before you go to America. I had most of it before I went, with only the fingerprints to be done when I arrived at the flight school. I think generally it takes around 3 days to get the Fingerprints approved, but for me it took 10 days. Obviously if this happens to you then you'll come home with a lot less flying than planned.
I'm pretty sure you can get the fingerprints done in the UK before you go, (not exactly sure where but farnborough rings a bell, perhaps someone else can comment?) At least then you could start flying pretty much as soon as you arrive.
Also, if you havent booked your flights yet, I would say to try and give yourself as many extra days as you possibly can, 21 days to complete a PPL really is the best case scenario...

Good luck

Stu

[WALSue]

I'm having no luck getting my hours in here in England (26 lessons booked and only flown for 4) so thinking of going to the States.
Very much doubt I can take the full 21 days off work - was thinking of maybe a 2 week stint.
Anyone got the hours up that way?

[suraci]

I did the ground exams first and managed the PPL course in just under 14 days in Florida, but it was hard work; I hit the ground running (2 flights on the first day, 3 on the second) but that's a bit harder now that you might lose a couple of days at the start until you get your fingerprints taken.

That particular school now uses an aircraft which may take a little longer for studes to master to solo level - not helping if time is tight.

When I did it the advertising was very much "guaranteed pass in 21 days", (albeit with some small print caveats!) but I don't think the school is saying that now.

I would still recommend the intensive US training approach, but plan on 4 weeks to build in a comfort margin.

[Irish_Stu]

I'm just not sure how productive 2 weeks would be... If you were going to do it, make sure you have full TSA clearance before you go, like I mentioned in my previous post. Took me 10 days alone to get clearance, so that would be most of your two weeks gone (although I think I was quite unlucky).
Also, it'll take you some time to get used to the flying out there, different aircraft, different RT, different area and airport etc.
I'm doing things the other way round, did 26 hours in Florida and now finishing the rest in UK, and I'd say it'll be a good 10 hours before i feel confident with the planes (newer 172's, more powerful), and the different radio etc.
You could go to America, hit a patch of bad weather or whatever and end up coming home with very few hours of any real value...

Personally, I wouldn't do it, but what would I know... :}

Stu

[JONNY99]

Did you not get printed at the US consolate before going Irish Stu? Do you still have to wait for clearance after getting them done on arrival?

[FougaMagister]

Even if it's still advertised, I wouldn't recommend doing a JAA PPL in 21 days -even provided the weather was OK and plane availability at 100%. The PPL should be seen as the foundation of your fluture flying career (I guess you want to go commercial since you post in this forum). It's very important to have sound bases, and I cannot see this done in 3 short weeks.

I did my JAA PPL in 5 weeks back in 2001, and that meant 2 flights/day most days! Bottom line: even in 5 weeks, it was hard work! I didn't pass any ground exam in GB before heading off, but had read the Trevor Thom books and sat 6 out of 7 PPL exams within a few days of arriving; so most of the 5 weeks was just flying. Airmanship and good habits are not best taught by rushing through the course. Obviously I'm not saying you should do it at "UK speed" (4-6 months), but 21 days seems awfully short. Of course you might want to make it fit your holiday; but remember, aviation is about hoping for the best and planning for the worst. In other words, you should have a 20% time (and $$$) "buffer" in case you should need more training, aircraft go "tech", the weather doesn't cooperate, or the TSA doesn't play ball, etc.

One can certainly do a CPL in 3 weeks, but then again it's only a 25-hr course and goes over material you've already seen at PPL!

My advice: take (a bit) more time. As previous posters show, you'll be glad you did.

Cheers :cool:

[187nj]

Walsue,

You sound a bit like I did a few weeks ago. The decision I came to after reading lots of forum stuff and speaking direct to the schools was to just go for what YOU think is best. If two weeks is all you can spare then fine, the US (especially California) has great weather all year round (fact). So, I believe that in 2 weeks you could get a chunk of your training done. This of course depends on aircraft and instructor availabilty but if you call up the school you wish to attend and explain your situation they will tell you exactly how it is going to work for you.

There is a way that by the end of the two weeks you could get to the point where you are only a few hours and/or exams short of a PPL. This would be if you sat some exams before you went. My instructor advised that I complete Avaiation Law, Meterology and Pilot performace before I go. I also have 5 hours so this to will help.

Basically, don't worry to much, go and get yourself out to the states with an open mind. Rather than think you are going to pass in two, three or even four weeks just believe that you are going to learn as much as possible. You do not have to pay for all your training up front so if you don't fly you don't pay.

I hope this helps you out, I know there is alot to take in and some big decisions to make. Don't believe everything you read on forums, get on the phone as speak first hand to the schools and you will feel much more confident.

All the best with your training.

187.

[XL319]

I did my PPL in 21 days and that was with 3-5 hours a day flying and about 3/4 days not flying so it is very doable, as long as the weather stays on your side.

[AvEnthusiast]

Hey 187nj,

please do so. When you are back please let us of know of every odd and ends. Because I've also mind to have a training with Anglo Amercian.

Regards,
AvEnthusiast

[Airbus Girl]

I did my PPL at Anglo in 3 weeks, my IR there in 2 weeks and my Airbus course in South Africa in less than a month. These things are possible but you need the right mental attitude and be prepared.
Treat your time not as a holiday, hit the ground running, and get into the studying. I treated the whole time as a course, that is I was at the flight school all day every day, I did loads of preparation and studying myself, had thorough briefings from the instructors and put the work in. Having a "can do" attitude will get you through.
If you know you are the sort of person who takes a few days to settle in, wants time off to rest or go sightseeing etc. then you ain't gonna do it in 3 weeks.
I found it a good way to learn, I did two flights a day, the second one consolidated some of the earlier lesson well and then we moved on to the next stuff.
Same with the IR.
It is possible if you want to do it.

[Irish_Stu]

Jonny 99,

You only go to the American Consulate for your Visa interview. I remember they did take my fingerprints at that but that's only for your visa. The fingerprints I'm talking about are for your TSA "Alien Flight Student Program" clearance (details here https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov) which is a separate issue, and there are only 3 locations in the UK where you can get your fingerprints taken for it (locations listed here http://www.tsc-csc.com/printoffices).

The other option is to wait till you arrive at your flight school in America, which can result in delays to starting training. Generally when you enrol at your flight school, they give you fingerprint cards which you then drive down to the local police station, have your fingerprints printed onto the cards, take the cards back to the flight school and they send them off to to TSA. You then have to wait until you receive an email from TSA saying you have been approved. This can be as quick as 3 days but for me it took 10 days and I know of others who waited 2 weeks. You can't start flying until you receive the clearance. Generally people use this waiting time to hammer out as many exams as possible.

Backpacker wrote a very good thread a while back which details the ins and outs of the visas, TSA clearance etc.. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=278995)


Stu

[thesexypilot]

PPLs shouldn't be rushed I found a few hours theory in the morning and 1 hr a day to start with was enough to take in. I got mine spread over time. I also found that things took a while to all click and come together.

Its funny, once you know how to fly, you forget the worry and complete unknown you had prior to solos, x-counrties etc. You forget what an achievement it was as much becomes 2nd nature.

To all those who read 21 days PPL etc, don't let this make you think it easy and just matter of hours. I feel it can be misleading. This would be very intense work. I take my hat off to all those who have the ability to complete such a task.

If you want to really enjoy your flying best to do 5 days per week, you don't run the risk of hating it from pressure and spread over 2 or 3 months.

you may think different

[WALSue]

I never intended to complete my PPL in 21 days in the States, just build up a few more hours as its been a very long process staying here in England.

Some great tips on this thread!!
I've E-mailed Anglo American and will be trawling round a few more schools.

Hopefully I'll get some more flying in soon.
One of my main reasons for getting more hours is I dont think I'd be allowed back to the Gatbash if I haven't at least completed one solo by then:)

[Irish_Stu]

I know what you're saying Walsue, I'm supposed to have a lesson tomorrow but it sounds like the wind outside is about to rip my roof off. Also forecast is showing a high likelihood of snow. Yay thumbs up all round! :ok:

We'll get there eventually....

[WALSue]

Just heard back from AAA.
They have a Solo in 10 days course; £16 hours in a C152, 15 hrs ground school, FAA medical and accommodation for $2500.
Rather tempting!

[waveydavey]

21 days is possible, but you would need to have read the theory before you go out. Last year I completed my PPL in 21 days, including taking the exams. I had completed all the study prior though.
Most of the people I was flying with also completed on time however approx 30% failed to finish in 21 days.
It depends on your preperation and how you pick up the skills you are taught, along with some luck with the weather.

[flyre8]

I completed an FI rating in seven weeks in the UK over November and December last year. I was working at it weekdays full time except for two days off to attend to family matters.

The FI course is similar to the PPL in that the instructor flies each lesson in the PPL syllabus. Instead of learning the lesson (which by this stage we ought to rather good at) the trainee FI is learning how to teach it. Instead of doing PPL groundschool (again we should know this) the trainee FI is studying how to teach, how do students learn and what to say, or perhaps more importantly what not to say in the aircraft!

I was in a hurry, like you seen to be (no income) but in my view there can be no substitute for doing a job well, and I enjoyed my course one hundred percent. It is possible to fly nearly every day in the UK (at some time of the day) so my advise is find an instructor in the UK who will teach you the PPL full time over six to eight weeks. Weather good = go flying. Weather poor = Go groundschool.

The rate per hour in the UK may be a higher that in the US, but there are no flights to pay for, no accomodation and no lonely time away from home. When it comes to a CPL or IR skill test you will want to have as much experience of UK airspace as possible. If you slip up on one of these tests it will cost at least £1000 in CAA fees and aircraft hire for a retest so in my view a PPL in the UK is economic. If you want to go to the US go when you are hours building.

Good luck with the course whatever you choose.

[G SXTY]

Couldn't have put it better myself flyre8. I honestly think that going to the US to do a PPL as quickly as possible is a false economy - particularly if you're planning to go commercial.

Airspace and RT are vastly different between the UK and US, and as others have said, the PPL lays the foundations for all your future flying. OK, the exchange rate is great - you may well save a grand or two in Florida, but when you get into CPL & IR training, mistakes costs thousands - literally. Three hours extra training in a Duchess (not unusual) is a thousand pounds, a partial in a skills test is a thousand pounds . . .

The learning curve is very steep in commercial training and you want as many things in your favour as possible. Being familiar with the airspace is a big deal - I have seen people struggle unnecessarily because they weren't used to MATZ crossings, flying in class D airspace, tracking NDBs etc.

I think the old adage is true - it's better to train in the same country you want to work in.

[ross brennan]

hi everyone,are there any past students of flight safety academy in florida out there? if so could you please tell me of your time there.....

[SD.]

G-SXTY wrote -

Couldn't have put it better myself flyre8. I honestly think that going to the US to do a PPL as quickly as possible is a false economy - particularly if you're planning to go commercial.

Airspace and RT are vastly different between the UK and US, and as others have said, the PPL lays the foundations for all your future flying. OK, the exchange rate is great - you may well save a grand or two in Florida, but when you get into CPL & IR training, mistakes costs thousands - literally. Three hours extra training in a Duchess (not unusual) is a thousand pounds, a partial in a skills test is a thousand pounds . . .

As someone who has instructed in the states and around London, I find the above absolute rubbish. May I ask if you have ever trained in or a near a Class Bravo airport in the states? Or even infact landed at a Class Bravo airport? (Let's say for instance, LAX or LAS) If you have, then you'll know the airspace and RT or not "vastly different". If the flying was that easy in the states, why do Oxford send their students to Arizona?

21 Day PPL's used to be hard, now with the TSA they are near impossible. I would budget for a min of 4 weeks with a view to 5. either way, get your ground exams completed before travelling so you can enjoy the evenings.

The old adage of training in the country you want to work in, written by owners of UK flight schools. First flight I did in UK airspace was with a student, good friend of mine's first flight was punching out of Stansted strapped to an orange A319! I don't think learning abroad did us and many others any harm. ;)

[brenmcc1]

Not sure if anyone is interested but I contacted AAA re: the SEVIS situation and this is what they told me.

The school is currently for sale, we have a potential buyer who will be able to issue the I-20’s as before, we should have a better idea early next week. I forsee no problem with the July course
Regards

[6477ident]

Is there someone who can tell me more about the current situation at AAA?

[acuba 290]

it is also possible to do in Europe. I have done my PPL in 18 days of flying, plus some bad weather days (used them perfectly for theory exams). All together from zero to skill test and RT exam took 28 days in Spain ;)

[Shiver me timbers!]

acuba 290 - please can you adapt on your last post or PM me. I'm interested to know who, where, price etc...

[LH2]

I have done my PPL in 18 days of flying

17 days of flying, 18 days altogether. I suspect we've done it at the same place (David UK, do a search for the latest beta--there aren't many places in Spain doing PPLs which are mentioned here).

At any rate, it's only a PPL so of course it's perfectly doable in two or three weeks--I can't see any intrinsic reason why it should take any longer assuming a person of normal skills and intelligence.

[acuba 290]

well, it also needs some homework with study aids and lovely PPL confuser before starting training, but I agree 100% with LH2;)

[Rugbyears]

LH2 - 18 days is rather impressive regardless of location. How many hours did you accrue during this period..? I suspect the minimum 45H.

[acuba 290]

in my case it was never longer than 3 hr per day, mostly less

[Gup]

Hey 'leezy, am also looking at training in SA, can you tell me where you did it? I was looking around Joburg, but am flexible. Gotta love the value of the rand at the moment!