Raptor...

[petermcleland]

http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/video_gallery/videos/F22_AirShow_Langley.wmv (http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/video_gallery/videos/F22_AirShow_Langley.wmv)

[Rigger1]

I'm sure it may have been inmpressive if you were there but on video it looked quite boring. I honestly think i've seen a typhoon do a better job at impressing the 'muggles'.

[tonker]

Apart from the thrust vectoring, internal weapons bay, stealthy look bit!

[petermcleland]

LOL!...I don't think the fighter pilots here will find it boring.

[Rigger1]

Ok, but, Thrust vectoring, is it really that useful, point your nose in another direction and bleed of a massive amount of energy and then sit in the sky for a while virtually motionless while all the ‘vectors’ line up again and resume wingborne flight.
An internal weapons bay, ok nice to have going out, but coming back = a massive use of space and as for stealth well a strike eagle drover told me recently that he couldn’t pick a Raptor up from 1 miles astern but if you speak to people who went out with the Typhoons to the states recently some of them tell of a very embarrassing incident – embarrassing for the Americans that is, that led to the typhoons not being allowed to fly when Raptors were about! Yes it may have only been a story but I have now had it from 2 different people from 2 different companies, whom I am fairly sure don’t know each other, who were both there.

[Ivan Rogov]

Nice take off, but it ran out of steam in the climb, rubbish :}
Rigger, don't think many will argue that Raptor is not the best fighter, but fill your boots :ok:

[Phil_R]

If you were one mile astern of a Raptor wouldn't your heat-seeking missiles be of rather more use?

Genuine question.

[Razor61]

When i first saw a video of a Raptor doing it's stuff at an airshow i thought the same as mentioned above, pretty boring routine to say the least !!!

Compare the US routine of TV to the Ruskies with the Mig-29OVT or Su-30 and there is an obvious winner in display routine... the Ruskies.

Surely the Russian aircraft with their 3D nozzles are more manoeuvrable than the Raptor with its 2D nozzles?

I think the only USAF fast jet display which actually looks good and impresses is/was the West Coast Display team with the F-15C. They are switching to the Raptor also.

As for the 1 mile question.
Cannon?

[Backwards PLT]

The difference between the F22 and the Russians is the F22 is a real, operational aircraft that is good at shooting others down as well.

[Razor61]

So the Sukhoi Su-30MKI isn't a 'real operational aircraft' then?
It's in service with the Indian Air Force and we all know the outcome it had against the F-15C's of the USAF (and Tornado F3s over the North Sea no doubt).
It was infact in service operationally way before the F-22.

[Launchpad McQuack]

Yes it may have only been a story

Come on then rigger, out with it...don't keep us in suspense!

[Razor61]

Surely that is the reason to use Pirate (or IRST)?? as fitted to the Typhoon.
It picks up heat signature from a decent range... you don't need radar. And thus Raptor will/should be able to be picked up from what, 30+ miles away? Whatever the range is of PIRATE.

Russians have been using IRST on Mig-29s and Su-27 variants for years...

I don't believe the Raptor has such a capability does it?

[Ivan Rogov]

Pirate sounds great, unless they hide in the clouds Razor :} I think radar is the primary search tool. Do you think the US or RAF were using wartime modes/tactics during the Exercises with the IAF, I doubt it some how. Also the USAF had a point to prove about the F-15 and probably played more of a friendly international game, rather than the World Cup final.

[Razor61]

I thought Infra-Red can 'see' heat signatures through Cloud or Smoke?

[melaminewarrior]

The Raptor video maybe construed as being somewhat boring as the pilot appears to execute the same type of manoeuvre over and over again. Pull up into the vertical, drop the nose and throw in a flat turn on the way down. However, it's one hell of a thing for an aeroplane to do, and the 2 loops towards the end, inside the proverbial dime, are as equally impressive.

As to the utility of thrust vectoring, to 'point your nose in another direction....', it is certainly going to help in the process of launching all those forward firing air to air weapons the Raptor carries, if it ever ended up defensive in a close in fight; something I think won't happen very often.

Finally IR seekers and sensors don't see through cloud.

[Rigger1]

Sorry, I couldn’t repeat all the details on here for fears of one of those big black cars pulling up outside. All I will say is when the RAF / Industry took the Typhoon to the states, apparently, it picked up something it shouldn’t have - F22. Remember the Rapier 2000 and B2 incident and you get the idea. I was told that after this the Typhoon was restricted in it’s activities because what it picked up wasn’t even operating from the same base. I have heard this from 2 independent sources.

[West Coast]

"Yes it may have only been a story but I have now had it from 2 different people from 2 different companies"

And I've heard the USN CVN vs a Canadian lighthouse story from two different people from two differing companies as well. Doesn't make it the truth. This may rise to a snopes level before long. Until you see it, spend it, drink it or fly it, it's someone else's story you're standing on.

[Backwards PLT]

Ok the Su30MKI is a real operational aircraft, unlike most of the others the Russians do whacky things with at airshows, but it isn't necessarily good at shooting other aircraft down. If you really believe all that stuff that came out about F15 v Su30MKI then I have some Northern Rock shares for sale at a really good price!

As for against the F3s I don't think the MKI would do as well as you suppose. The recent exercise was a defence diplomacy deployment that had about as much to do with proper exercises/training as the Womens Auxiliary Balloon Corps. It's not what you do at an airshow that counts.

[Rigger1]

it's someone else's story you're standing on, I never said it was my story or true, altough I was once told by several people about a typhoon kicking 2 x 15E's backsides over the lakes ....... true or not!!!!!!!

[brickhistory]

altough I was once told by several people about a typhoon kicking 2 x 15E's backsides over the lakes

Could very well be true.

The Typhoon seems like a very good aircraft. Pity there won't be enough of them.

The F-15E has been operational for how long? Doing both air-to-air and air-to-ground, I think as well.

Finally, were shots actually exchanged, things went boom, and crews came down in very personalized air vehicles instead of the ones they started the mission in?

No, then it was an exercise, wasn't it?

[Ivan Rogov]

The Typhoon pouncing the F15E's was as much RAF spin as the US F15s beeten by IAF SU30s.

[Lazer-Hound]

I heard that the Rapier tracked the B2 visually. The B2 isn't actually invisible.

As for the Typhoon v F22, the version I heard was that the Typhoons were better close in, but couldn't actually spot the F22's unless the F22s wanted to be spotted for exercise purposes. In other words it's a similar story to the F18F v F22 incident a year or two back.

[soddim]

Nice party tricks but they don't win fights.

Nowadays success depends more upon sensors and weapon systems and they don't appear at airshows.

Didn't see any coloured smoke so maybe it does have an operational capability?

[West Coast]

"Northern Rock shares for sale at a really good price!"

Not heard that one before. Must be the equivalent of ocean front property in Arizona.

[mr fish]

rigger1, maybe i've been out of uniform too long because your use of acronyms escapes me, i just cannot get 'MUGGLES' to match 'TAX PAYER', I guess 'POTENTIAL FUTURE RECRUIT' is way off as well:}