UK JAA CPL and spanish ME/IR ???

[acuba 290]

Hi everybody, i need advice, just to doublecheck http://www.atpforum.co.uk/images/smilies/confused.gif:
At the moment i have british JAA PPL. If i do ATPL theory at Bristol, then ME/IR in Spain http://www.aerodynamics-malaga.com (http://www.aerodynamics-malaga.com/)
and after that for example JAA CPL in one of british schools in USA, OBA for example, should it work like that? Can i put spanish ME/IR into british JAA CPL?

[acuba 290]

any idea, somebody?

[crap pilot]

The ME/IR is a rating which meens that it can be done in any of the JAR member states, so yes, it can be done in spain. You have to complete the CPL in the same JAR member state as you have taken the ATPLs, so if you do the ATPLs in the UK then you have to do the CPL in the UK (with one or two exeptions, OBA being one of them).

[mau mau]

This answer is Definitely false

If you do ATPL theory in UK after you can do CPL/ME/IR in SPAIN and in GREECE, as they are mutual recognized.

It is not true that you have to finish practice where you did your theory ATPL.
I have confirmation from CATS (ATPL school UK) and 2 flight schools in Greece and one in Spain.

SO DEFINITELY YOU CAN DO ATPL IN UK AND DO TRAINING/CONVERSION IN SPAIN, IN GREECE OR IN ANY OYHER PLACE WITH MUTUAL RECOGNITION.

[acuba 290]

well...sounds good :)

[crap pilot]

mau mau is correct, although you would have to get the permission from the authorities over the state to do the CPL in a different state to the ATPLs. The flight school does not give you the permision and they will make it sound much easier than it actually is. Personally I would speak to the CAA and ask them (and the equivelant in the state that your looking to train in) rather than ask the FTOs that want your money.

[mau mau]

Crap pilot did you have some direct experience??
think about it: To get IR you need or ATPL or IR theory examination...to get CPL idem, you need ATPL or CPL theory examination.
Well....how many people from UK go to Spain to make IR course after ATPL done in UK? and how many people from Florida (Naples for example) go to Spain after their ATPL there?
If the ATPL is not recognized as theory to do training and exame for CPL in other country, it is not good for IR as well, even if one is a rating and the other is licence; always ATPL it is.

Anyway, get information from CAA is always good, but in the JARs I've don't found anything regarding prohibitions.

Follow what EGNATIA AVIATION in greece wrote to me:
There is no problem completing your ATPLs in the UK and do the practical and skill test here in Greece. Greek and UK CAA have a mutual agreement to accept each others examination results. We do that all the time so there is really not a problem

And what CATS (cranfield ATPL's in UK) wrote:

My question: If I do ATPL there in UK with CATS is it compulsory for me do CPL (flight exam) there in UK or can I make practice exame in Spain or Greece?
answer: Yes students have done their CPL / IR in Spain or Greece

Flights schools or ground schools can not lie....they can make it better than what is, but don't give wrong informations.
Anyway, I wait last answer from UK CAA, but I'm quiete sure. :)

[redout]

I would stick to doing the CPL in the same state as the ATPL's to err on side of caution. Although in theory what has been said is possible, sadly in practice it very seldom occurs. Most authorites are not willing to do this and it is at there convenience whether they decide to or not. The only countries which definitly do this are the United Kingdom and Ireland which have an agreement in place between the CAA and IAA.

[redout]

Also a word to the wise about the Spanish Caa (DGAC) and UK Caa. Comparing these two entites would be like comparing BA to Ryanair. They are in different leagues altogether, one is an efficient well respected and professional set up whilst the other is a part time couldnt give a F#:* havent got there head screwed on nightmare to deal with.

[mau mau]

UK CAA is the best ok.

But if different CAAs are mutually recognized one another, mean that you can get licences and do examinations indifferently between these nations, even if UK is the best and Spain is ****.
If UK CAA accepts this, you have to accepts too!

[Daniel777]

So after reading the comments above, would this be possible?

ATPL's and MCC in UK, CPL in Florida( JAA flight school e.g OFT or Naples), ME/IR in Spain?


Thankshttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Danny

[BigGrecian]

Mau Mau. I think you misread the question - the answer isn't false.
I have plenty of students who have done this.

If you have a JAA PPL, and completed a UK ATPL theory then you can complete your Instrument Training in JAA state and test in any JAA state. Through mutual recognition the authoirty of your Licence issue has to add it to your licence (Even if they don't want to i.e a Spanish IR! :E)
The Greek authorities will accept your ATPL results but you must get pre-authorisation of this before you start a Greek CPL.

This again proves that you shouldn't believe what you read on PPrune you should just look it up yourself! (But then why believe me ;))

[birdlady]

Ok slight hijack but Im hoping one of you can explain this to me as I've spent the better part of a month trying to get the answer from the DGAC.:ugh:

I have a UK JAA PPL that is about to expire (next mayish). I am living in France for the summer and before I go back to ICAO land I want to renew my licence. After a long absentisim from the skies (four years due to being totally skint and living in the gulag) Im a happy bunny. :ok::ok: Its JAA so I think I should be home and dry. :hmm::hmm: I thought I might kill two birdies with one stone and get a night rating as well as getting my licence renewed. Apparently (according to any aeroclub within a hundread mile radius) one cannot do this in France as for some reason they are not willing to sign off on a Uk JAA licence even for revalidation. Can someone please explain this lunacy :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ta :{:{

[LH2]

Apparently one cannot do this in France

One cannot do what in France? The reval or the night qual?

The revalidation of your licence must be done by the issuing authority (in your case that being the CAA). The revalidation of your class ratings can be done by any authorised JAA examiner. Lastly, the training for the night qualification can most definitely be done in France, although you will apply for it to the CAA--that's precisely how I did mine, so feel free to ask if you need further clarification.

Have you tried calling your local BRIA, or DCS Paris? 01.58.09.45.96 for the latter.

[birdlady]

Hi LH,

Your quite right about the revalidation of the licence. However, as I havent flown for four years I need to renew my class ratings. I will be going home to Sa next year and it would make my life much easier if I can fly on my JAA PPL and not have to do a South African PPL. (if rating isnt valid licence isnt valid according to CAA in south africa). I have contacted all the schools in my area and they seem to not want to sign anything off on my licence. :confused::confused:

[LH2]

they seem to not want to sign anything off on my licence

So what's the word from the DGAC? And whereabouts in France are you?

[birdlady]

LH,

This is what I received from the DGAC this afternoon.

Bonjour,

If your Single Engine Piston class rating has expired you have to pass a
skill test with an examiner on this class. You can pass it I think with a
french examiner who has a JAR licence.
If this class rating is already written on your licence I think that the
French examiner can write the new validity of the rating. but if it is not
the case you will have to send to the UK CAA the copy of the test to have a
new licence.

Perhaps you should ask to the UK CAA to have a confirmation of what I said.


So it looks like it may be possible. :confused::confused: However the schools I have been in contact with are not willing to sign off on my licence. All very frustrating and confusing. :ugh::ugh::ugh: I am based near Dinard so if you have any suggestions it would be most helpfull. I will contact the UK CAA tomorrow and see what they say. More bureaucracy :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Daniel777]

Quick question:

After passing the ATPL exams in the UK is it possible to do the CPL in any JAA registered flight school located in the US?

After that maybe Spanish ME/IR...

Thanks,

Danny

[janrein]

acuba 290

The answer to your first post is yes and yes, from personal experience and nearby experience of many others
e.g.
Holding non-UK PPL
ATPL’s done in Bristol
ME-IR rating done in Spain
CPL done in the UK, above rating entered in the UK-JAA-CPL
Note1: CPL - if you want it to be UK-issued - must be done in a UK-CAA acknowledged FTO (located in UK, or the few in US, Oz, note UK-acknowledged FTE in Spain say they don’t do modular)
Note2: IR can be done in any JAA-FTO, but must be done on JAA-territory, i.e. not in US or Oz


birdlady

Similar to your posts, there exist various posts/threads here on PPRuNe (use search function) that indicate an apparent reluctance from the side of the French authorities and or french FTOs to operate in the harmonised way that is the intend of the whole JAA thing. Issues about FI’s alledgedly not being able to instruct in France, bizar experiences with the english language LPE tests in France. Anomalies that – if true – are not likely to be resolved until the EASA license will have come fully into effect (later than your planned return to SA).

If you have the possibility, then start looking outside of your area, e.g. UK (from whom you have your current PPL) or Spain (where various schools do IR’s and other ratings that are thereafter entered into UK-licenses). Whatever you do, call the UK-CAA (+441293573700) for first-hand info as your current license is issued by them.

[LH2]

there exist various posts/threads here on PPRuNe (use search function) that indicate an apparent reluctance from the side of the French authorities and or french FTOs to operate in the harmonised way

Hmm... Might be worth pointing out that this is a British-centered site. The majority of posts I've seen of the kind you describe are simply based on hearsay or misinformation and are not accurate.

There are only a very few people here who are familiar enough with French aviation to be able to compare reliably. Most of them seem to hang around in the Private Flying forum.

Not to say the DGAC don't have their peculiarities, but that's a discussion which would be only tangentially related to the above.