Great airmen/airwomen

[Bluntend]

Afternoon all, I'm after some advice. I'm off to staff college soon and need to write an essay on a notable airman or airwoman who has demonstrated exceptional leadership. All the usual suspects have been done to death on previous courses so any suggestions for someone a bit obscure or out of the ordinary would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers all.

Bluntend.

[english_electric]

I hope you don't mind me suggesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Louis_Aaron

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Olds

[camlobe]

Bluntend,
One of the most notable Airwomen to display exceptional leadership, by example and result, was WO Eilean Beasley, recently retired from the RAF as the most senior WO in HM forces. I got to know this lady in the 80's and she left the most lasting of impressions. Highly recommend you consider this outstanding person for your essay.


camlobe

[Two's in]

Try Lady Sophie Mary Heath

[kiwi chick]

Hmmmm... bit of a reverse here, and I fear I may get bashed, but...

Just finished reading a book about Jean Batten, and, well.... am I the only one who thinks she's not actually worth of all the accolade she got?

:rolleyes:

[ZH875]

Wasn't Eilean Beasley originally a PTI, until someone took exception to a refereeing decision she made in a game of rugby and decked her, so she became GD Admin.

I can remember when she took over the SWO'ship of Lossie in the mid 80's when the outgoing SWO told her how much bedding she had, and to sign here, so she insisted on counting it and discovered over £5000 worth of bedding was missing.

As to her actually doing her SWO job, she really did kick *rse, and didn't give a monkey's what excuse DoE/PSA had, the work was done, and double quick. Scared the troops rigid, but was totally fair. One of the best SWOs the RAF ever had. :ok:

She also used to drive around in a BL Mini, and for those of you that don't know her, this was like putting a quart into a pint pot.:O

[Bluntend]

She sounds like a really interesting person and to be honest I'd much rather write an essay on her specific leadership style than that of say, Bomber Harris or Trenchard. Sadly though unless somebody knows of a biography on her I'm going to have to go for somebody a bit more noteable.

[Green Flash]

There's a certain liney on 12 Sqn who has done wonders for morale and raised dosh for charity!:ok:

[camlobe]

ZH875,

Eilean was indeed a PTI prior to her transfering to GD. I hadn't heard about the rugby match. Ouch.

Before she was SWO at Lossie (which is where I met her), she was SWO at Valley. Certainly woke up the sleepy Welsh base. At Lossie, in the famous Motor Club, she even donned overalls and learned from others how to maintain her own car.

And I totally agree about her capabilities as a SWO. As well as dishing out the grief to anyone who deserved it, Staish and Sqn bosses included, she helped out a lot of the youngsters who were losing their way.

Feered by many, but respected by all. Quite an accomplishment.

camlobe

[GPMG]

I suppose that Hans-Ulrich Rudel is one of those that has been 'done to death'?

[snapper41]

How about contacting the RAF Leadership Centre at Cranwell? They publish the sort of things you're after.

[Bluntend]

Cheers Snapper41. I'll give that a try.

[snapper41]

You might also like to try Sqn Ldr Vera Atkins (Sqn Officer in the WAAF, I think) who was part of F Section SOE. She was responsible for dispatching female agents to France, and, after the war, made it her personal goal to discover the fate of all those she sent out who didn't return, and bring those responsible for their murders to trial. Fascinating book about her called 'A Life In Secrets'. Great leadership, showing dedication to her 'girls' even after they had died.

More here:

http://www.64-baker-street.org/also/also_vera_atkins_her_story.html

[Melchett01]

Have you thought about Constance Babbington-Smith MBE?

She was highly regarded as a visionary in the field of tac recce during WW2, not only forging links between the UK and US intelligence agencies but was more famously responsible for first spotting the pilotless ac that were the forerunners of the V1 & V2 at Peenemunde.

Could be a fascinating delve back in time to an interesting period that given the priority place on ISTAR today could, if you thought it out properly, be linked back into current air ops to give it a smattering of 21st century relevance.

Just a thought - Google her name, plenty comes up and there will be stacks of stuff in the various museums and MOD archives about her, including an MBE citation no doubt floating around.

[snapper41]

Hmmmm - how did Constance B-S demonstrate leadership, exactly?

[A2QFI]

Probably been done to death by others and in former times, but you could consider Leonard Cheshire. Not just for his military career but for his humanitarian work after he had left the RAF.

[Melchett01]

Hmmmm - how did Constance B-S demonstrate leadership, exactly?

Possibly through the same things that got her an MBE? Pioneering new techniques and procedures, forging links with multi-national agencies ..... all sounds a bit like leading by example through a period of change and operations.

But then again, if you wanted to take the how did she demonstrate leadership exactly line, I could ask exactly the same thing about many of the senior officers we see getting operational honours and awards etc. But bear in mind, C B-S was a Flight Officer at the time - I'm guessing the WAAF equivalent of a current day JO. How many current JOs do you see floating around demonstrating leadership of change?

I think it could be quite a good topic - if approached correctly.

[snapper41]

I'm not denying she deserved an award for the valuable work she did, but I doubt she got it for leadership. Imagery analysis was, and largely still is, a solo effort (stereoscopes only had one set of eyepieces!).

[Maple 01]

Gp Capt (as was) Joan Hopkins - ask any ageing FC or ASOp

Video available on request (BBC doc before anyone gets excited)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Although she batted for the other team, how about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanna_Reitsch (why do I dislike using Wiki?) as an example of a determined, skilled and very brave military test pilot?

I would imagine that you are trying to find an airman who is not one of the usual suspects. Well it's been a big Air Force with lots of stars. A rich seam to mine from without even looking inside more junior formations.

[Delta Hotel]

A few suggestions:

Guy Gibson VC

Ray Hanna (ex Red Arrows leader)

Air Marshal Saundby of 1930s Air Control fame

AVM Sanderson from the Malayan Emergency

DH

[ZH875]

How about ACM Sir Gus Walker:

An extraordinary house, an extraordinary hero.
ON December 8 1942 Lancaster bombers under the command of Group Captain Augustus Walker were preparing to take off on a night raid over Turin. All were fully armed, many with l,000lb bombs, and fuelled for the punishing raid over Italy.
While taxiing to take off, Gp Capt Walker saw something fall from the bomb bay of one of the heavyhttp://www.pocklingtonhistory.com/archives/people/memories/guswalker/GW1.jpg bombers and, thinking it might have been a bomb, instinctively rushed across the airfield to warn the crew to abandon the sortie.
Suddenly there was an explosion. He was within a few metres of the aircraft and was thrown nearly 80 metres by the blast, severing his right arm. Incredibly, as he was being taken to hospital he asked one of his staff to telephone the RAF top brass to ask if they would take back a one-armed station commander in two month's time. Two months later, he was back on duty.
Only a month after that he became an Air Commodore at the age of 30 and continued to lly. having an artificial arm with leather loops which he wrapped around the control column. During his 36-year RAF career he rose be Air Chief Marshall and ultimately became a deputy Commander-in-chief of Nato.

http://www.pocklingtonhistory.com/archives/people/memories/guswalker/index.php

http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Walker_G.htm

[Climebear]

Bluntend

What is meant by airmen/airwomen?

Does it mean the non-commissioned members of the RAF or does it mean people whose profession involves flying (ie the airmen bit in NOTAM)?

If it is the latter then AVM Don Bennett (http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/BennettD.htm) is a good case study. The RAF's youngest ever AVM (at 33) and commaner of the Pathfinder Force. He ran the group with a rod of iron but he got results and his aircrew liked and respected him.

[Bluntend]

Climebear.

The brief, such as it is at this stage as the essay won't formally be set until early next month specifies a noteable airman or airwoman who has during their time displayed exceptional leadership. It also hints at the individual having a relatively large sphere of influence so I guess the implied requirement would be for someone WO or above. But there are plenty of NCO's over the years who have been highly decorated so if any fit the bill, please let me know.

Personally, I just want to avoid having to submit an essay on Trenchard or the Red Barron...

[polecat2]

I have been impressed by the accounts of many of the subjects in The Daily Telegraph Book of Airmen's Obituaries, which now runs to two volumes.
Many are positively inspiring and would be worthy of further research.

Polecat

[Jimbo27]

A suggestion.

Group Captain J R Jeudwine DSO OBE DFC.

Pre-war regular who served pre-war. Went out to the far east and was caught up in the Japanese invasion. The bit that could demonstrate leadership well was when he escaped from Java in a boat with 11 men and they reached safety 47 days later. Ths was what he got the OBE for.

After that he returned to UK, commanded 619 Sqn and eventually became a master bomber with 5 Group. Died right after the end of the war in a Typhoon crash.

There is a biography available, Global Warrior.

HtH

[musclemech]

I'm guessing that Bader has been done to death, but you could look at Bob Stanford Tuck, my personal WW2 hero. His biography Fly For your Life by Larry Forrester (a real Boy's Own story, and my Desert island Disc book) has plenty of examples of his leadership, not least when he took over a demoralised Canadian squadron (257 sqn IIRC) and turned them into a highly effective outfit in double quick time. And another when he deals with a couple of NCO aircrew who keep turning back from their scrambles.

HTH
MM

[EyesFront]

If it's leadership you're after rather than exceptional airmanship, many of the main WW2 examples are obvious, but people like Leonard Cheshire, Johnny Johnson, Douglas Bader, Bob Tuck and Adolf Galland will have been done many times. My favourite of this bunch is Alan Deere, but I wouldn't argue against any of them. Gus Walker would be a good choice too. If you want someone higher up the tree, there's Dowding, or if you go back to WW1 you can't go far wrong with McCudden, Boelke or Mannock. Pre WW1 you've got Louis Strange, or Trenchard of course

If the emphasis is on airmanship rather than leadership, the field opens up to include pilots like Cunningham, Beamont and Duke, and maybe some mavericks and eccentrics, like Albert Ball and Don Bennett

Choosing from that lot is quite a nice problem to have!

[Bluntend]

Well, given today's sad news that at the age of 88 Sir Edmund Hillary has past away, I think I'll write my essay on him. He did, afterall serve in the RNZAF and he was a leader in both the physical and social sense. He was certainly inspiritaional.

[kiwi chick]

What????? When did you hear that?

Am searching "stuff.co.nz" right now, do you have any links?

[Bluntend]

Try www.TVNZ.co.nz or www.bbc.co.uk/news.

[kiwi chick]

Just read all about it. Tis a bit sad, end of an Era really.

I never realised he had so much tragedy in his life. :(

[John Hill]

Ah yes, Sir Ed, there could hardly be a better choice though I have always rather fancied the story of the life of Mary Russell, Duchess of Bedford, DBE FLS 1865-1937

[air pig]

What about Squadron leader Roger Bushell shot down 23rd May 1940 then eventually ended up in Stalag Luft III until his escape with others and eventual murder, or the SIB team who hunted the murders down and brought them to justice in very difficult circumstances.

[SRENNAPS]

An apology for thread drift but with reference to posts 4, 7 & 10, was Eilean Beasley also the SWO at Bruggen in the nineties. Or have I mixed her up with somebody else.

She was also a formidable character.

[peppermint_jam]

I'm sure that Eilean Beasley was the SWO at Cosford in 1997-1998 also, she was hilarious! When I was on guard she banned a Wing Commander from driving his car onto camp, the staish backed her all the way!

[Double Zero]

Bader ?!

A great airman & leader in his own ego, but nowhere else - read up about him !

How he actually got his tin legs, the dubious circumstances of his downing, and the way he treated his 'bat man'- THAT man deserved a medal...

I worked with a chap who was groundcrew on the squadron when Bader got downed - a party was held that night !

Though it doesn't come easily ( re. the Nazi creed, but I reckon it doesn't apply here ) - I have to admire Galland for his utter balls for the " give me a Staffel of Spitfires " line to Goering.

I once met an ex-Spitfire pilot who'd been in the same POW Stalag as the great Douglas -

" we all had a good word to say for Bader - but I can't say it in front of your wife ! "

[Launchpad McQuack]

A great airman & leader in his own ego, but nowhere else


Here here...Bader was an arse. Not only have I read up about him in the past, but my Grandmother worked at the Air Ministry during the war and dealt personally with all the big names in the RAF many times, and has many stories about dealing with them (mostly positive)...but thought Bader was an arrogant tosser, or words to that effect.

If it were me choosing? I'd do Ray Hanna...check out Flying Lawyer's tribute thread and then you'll get some idea of how highly regarded he was (and still is).

LP

[Double Zero]

I agree, certainly Ray Hannah seems up there with the greats though I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but did see some of his displays - there are so many others who will not even get a mention, some still with us, most who aren't.

Test Pilots - well just read the TartanTerror's tribute site...I had the honour of flying with Frank Bullen for instance, who declined from making an entry in Don Middleton's excellent book ' Test Pilots -the history of BritishTest Flying' as he was too modest - though he admitted that when he saw how well the thing had turned out, not just a line-shoot, maybe he should have gone for it.

Another is Robin Milne - 99% of readers will say " Robin who ? "...

It has long seemed to me that a 'knighthood' is nowadays actually an insult - ' Sir Elton John' etc, also 'Services to Floristry'...

Maybe there ought to be a seperate form of approbation, along the lines of the FRAES but voted by the more common man who's seen people do great things and apparently get no credit - suggestions as to how this might be done please ?!

[EyesFront]

Well, given today's sad news that at the age of 88 Sir Edmund Hillary has past away, I think I'll write my essay on him. He did, afterall serve in the RNZAF and he was a leader in both the physical and social sense. He was certainly inspiritaional.


No argument on the inspirational bit. I saw him in 1991 at Lukla while waiting for a helicopter back to Kathmandu. I believe this was the first airstrip he built in Nepal back in the '50s. No road to bring equipment in, so he simply got the sherpas to line up and go up and down the 1:10 slope, picking up all the boulders until only gravel remained. He was on oxygen and not looking very well, but he still insisted on making his annual visit to Nepal. He was regarded as royalty in Nepal - well, better than royalty in the light of recent events there - so whichever aircraft came in first was his!

Purely for leadership, one might suggest that John Hunt is worth considering too ... a band of strong-minded heroes like the '53 Everest expedition is a major challenge for any leader!!!

[225Turbo]

I know of plenty of airwomen who have done wonders for moral in the NAAFI bop at Brize !

[papajuliet]

Turbo - do you mean morals or morale?!

[Green Flash]

'The Naafi bop' & 'morals' - now there's some words you don't often see together ..... :E

[Hot Charlie]

You might also like to try Sqn Ldr Vera Atkins (Sqn Officer in the WAAF, I think) who was part of F Section SOE. She was responsible for dispatching female agents to France, and, after the war, made it her personal goal to discover the fate of all those she sent out who didn't return, and bring those responsible for their murders to trial. Fascinating book about her called 'A Life In Secrets'. Great leadership, showing dedication to her 'girls' even after they had died.

One could argue though that her connection with the RAF was entirely an adminisrative exercise to obtain the necessary authority for her investigations - maybe prompted by the RAF/RCAF etc connections of some of "her" agents.

Spymistress: The Life of Vera Atkins, the Greatest Female Secret Agent of World War II (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spymistress-Atkins-Greatest-Female-Secret/dp/1559707631/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200081152&sr=8-2) is also well worth a read too, although I'm only half way through it, and I think "A Life in Secrets" is probably the better of the two.:)

As for the original question, I'd probably go for someone like (the recently passed away) Willie Tait, Cheshire or Bob Palmer.

[225Turbo]

Jeez, I meant morale. ok?