DAE Dubai Flight Academy

[FlyingArab]

Hey fellow wannabes - just wondering if anyone has heard of the Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Flight Academy? I think they call it the DAE Flight Academy for short - I heard they were going to use real twin turbine jets for the ME phase of training!!! Quite extreme!

If anyone has any info on the FTO please let me. Might be worth looking into for us that might not want a JAR licence - I wonder if training with them would get us into the UAE carriers? hmm..

[.Aero]

FA, your right - found this on Google news.

DAEFA will use the Eclipse 500 jets in its new ab initio training program. DAE University plans to open the Flight Academy in March 2008 in the emirate of Ras Al Khaimah at the site of a former air force base. It will be the first school of its type to use the Eclipse 500 and the program will offer a 12-month course starting every month with up to 400 students in training at any given time. DAEFA takes zero-time pilots and trains them in Technically Advanced Aircraft (TAA).

Sounds like they're going to be a quality FTO in the Middle East.

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/index.php?option=com_newsroom&task=viewpr&id=1329&Itemid=52

[FlyingArab]

$150,000 ???? :eek: Quite steep for training in the desert! That works out to be 76,000 pounds - more than what the most prestigious UK school cost that DO have airline relations, that DO have a history and reputation....

Oh well - Thanks for the info! :ok:

[.Aero]

Amanda - check out these two sites:

http://wwww.daeflightacademy.com/

and

http://www.daeuniversity.com/portal/CourseOffering/FlightAcademy/tabid/126/Default.aspx

[crippes]

I'm new to PPRuNe, but I thought I might have some insights to share on this topic.
DAE is trying to become the next "big thing" in the aviation industry. $15+ billion is being invested, a portion of which is goin to the start up of the flight academy. These guys are the real deal, and have a interesting approach to flight training and career development.
I've had first hand experiences here in the states with many of the newly recruited employees going to Dubai to run and instruct at the Flight Academy, and must say that they are among the best and the brightest. I'm curious to see how succesful the program will be, I'm confident that they will one day be synomonous with other well respected pilot training organizations arround the world. :-)

[.Aero]

I read a very interesting article about the DAE flight academy in Civil Aviation Training (CAT magazine)

http://cat.texterity.com/cat/2007-6/?pg=14&pm=2


Starting on something as powerful as the SR22 G3 then moving onto a twin turbine EA500 VLJ for multi-engine training is pretty impressive! Every student/instructor's dream perhaps? I don't even think the RAF get to toy with aircraft as advanced during their initial training. :}

[BlueSky1]

Has anyone actually worked or currently working for DAE Flying Academy in UAE? The job scope and salary seems quite attractive on the net, however I am also told that the cost of living in the UAE is quite high.

Are the conditions of this job good? And will I be able to make ends meet (as well as save money) while living and working in UAE? Is it worth while applying?

[phantomcruiser07]

$150,000! you really have to wonder who on earth will train there for so much

[.Aero]

I don't really think it's all that bad to be honest - the most reputed companies in the UK cost around 130,000+ USD, this figure is even higher if you look at FTO based France, Germany, Sweden etc.

For comparison's sake, for the extra 20k you get to train on sophisticated, technologically advanced aircraft (SR22 and the Eclipse EA500 Jet) PLUS you walk away with not one but DUAL type rating on the EA500 and a jet transport aircraft of your choosing which will either be 73 or 320 variants if I'm not mistaken. This is all offered under one roof. Sounds pretty impressive if you ask me.

The cost of living in the emirate of Ras Al Khaimah where the school is based will be much cheaper than anywhere else in Europe and rentals are no where as extorsionate as they are in Dubai.

[phantomcruiser07]

^^a dual type rating? never herd of that........I assume then that all the 150 k you pay at dubai covers all training, type rating, living costs etc

its sounds a better place to be an instructor than a student, I would love to be instructing the eclipse jets

[.Aero]

a dual type rating? never herd of that

Never heard of dual type rating? or never heard of an FTO offering dual type rating?

Tuition fees don't cover living expenses - but then again, living in Ras Al Khaima isn't expensive - nothing like what FTOs in europe charge you to live on site for a pokey little prison cubical... ~120 pounds a week!

[GBB]

I would say its a good deal if u make ur money in europe and US $ (AED is tied to US $) is all time low to any currency in EU! or if u have rich parents :)
R-A-K is nothing like DXB, its more like Fujairah or Al Ain when it comes to day to day living. (I would say cheap) :ok:
With today exchange rates u would pay for ur training (exl. accom. and food+fun) around 97450 EUR.

[phantomcruiser07]

I thought you were only allowed to specialise on one aircraft at a time, but rules maybe different in ME .

So living expenses are'nt covered in the 150 k, so that means the cost is a whole lot more than they say on the website.

[samee380]

So is the frozen ATPL given at the end compliant to JAA ? As it says on they website it is. Does this mean you can get a job with any airline in the world? Would BA accept students from DAE?

[.Aero]

I believe that it is simply JAA compliant at this point which means on paper, the course would meet or in some cases exceed the required JAA minimum standards for an integrated frozen ATPL course. As far as I'm aware you will not be issued with a JAA licence.

This will probably change in the near future as JAA aviation authorities such as the UK CAA can approve overseas pilot training courses as they have done with schools in the USA, Canada, Australia in which case your issued with a JAA licence issued by the authority that approved the course.

[Zitoon]

Hello!

How is considered the GCAA frozen ATPL at the entry of airlines, here in Europe?
Is dual type rating a real asset when you are in the european pilot's market?

[Zone 2 Alt]

There seems to be some confusion here. DAEFA according to their website are offering a conventional GCAA Intergrated ATPL. It is JAA based but you will not get a JAA licence. If they want to offer a JAA licence they need to be a satellite station of a JAA member state school and go through the expensive JAA accreditation system. Even then some elements of the course have to be done in a JAA State.

An ATPL (A) does not give you a type rating. MPL will do this, but that is not what DAEFA appear to be offering and an airline partner is needed. They could set up as TRTO to do a full type conversion after completion of your ATPL(A) but I am not sure this is what they are doing. Anyone from DAEFA care to throw some light on their Course.

[.Aero]

Zitoon, Your right. The licences you earn are approved and issued by the UAE's GCAA. You'll hold an international licence issued by the UAE (which is an ICAO signatory state). You wouldn't be able to start flying for a European carrier without holding a JAA licence being issued by a JAA member state first.. I think.. :bored:

The fact that the course is based on or compliant with the JAA system/syllabi might signify that the conversion from your GCAA to JAA might be nothing more than an administrative matter.

Zone 2 Alt, I think they are basically offering training towards the issue of a frozen ATPL on an integrated course, BUT with dual type rating thrown in at the end. I know they don't or house any level D FFS, but I reckon a partner UAE based TRTO such as CAE-Emirates will probably carry out the jet transport type rating element of the course.

The Eclipse EA500 type rating will probably be conducted in-house as you'll be studying the ins and outs of the aircraft and actually spending some 50 hours in it.

My two cents

[Brachetta]

Hi all;
This thread is a bit old but this might help.

In fact it's not 150K USD, is 125K

They offer:
- GCAA frozen Airline Transport Pilots License (JAA Compliant)
- Eclipse Jet Type Rating (removes the need for traditional “jet bridge” course)
- 800 hours Classroom Instruction
- 66 hours on Flight Training Devices
- 240 hours of Pre/Post Flight Briefings
- 135 Flight Training Missions -fly international routes (Like RAK to Mumbai, RAK to Jeddah, RAK to Muscat ,RAK to Athens and more)
-135 hours of training in the SR22 piston powered aircraft )
-50 hours of training in the EA500 jet powered aircraft
-200 hours acting as a crew member (Multi Crew Course)

And for extra 25K they offer Jet Transport Type. The options are: Airbus A320 or Boeing B737-800 NG

Lot of money? hell yes, but I'm myself talking to my bank to get some funding since modular will take much longer.

[BlueSky1]

Is the DAE Academy actually going to fly international routes to Mumbai, Athens etc? I was looking at employment there and last I heard from sources is that they are still in the development phase and not fully operational yet. I also heard that some of the instructors are not happy after being employed for flight ops and kept in the ground school for 2 or more months.

How soon are there international routes planned? And have they got the operational approval from the local authority yet? Are international routes (overfly permits/landing clearances/fees/refueling etc) already approved? And more importantly, is it worth while moving to the UAE for this job? :confused:

[gilderoy lockhart]

150,000 us with the A320/737NG type rating is not unreasonable. What links do they have with Emirates for employment after type rating?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I know some of the guys there, but this post is without talking to them, but based on knowing the area:

Bed spaces are available for 600 aeds per month.......just ask all the Pinoys.

The international routes are still pie in the sky.

I was not aware of the heavy metal type rating.

A few students there at present, and NO 500's flying as I yet.

Nice facility, and RAK is an interesting if slightly boring town. But you will not have much free times so don't moan.

Have fun, while the sun shines. glf

[Desert Budgie]

As good as it all sounds, I would be very careful when spending so much money for a GCAA license. Unless you are a UAE national or at the very least a GCC national, there are no jobs available in the UAE for a pilot with low hours fresh out of flying school. The only airline offering a program close to that is Etihad and that is a full sponsorship program conducted at the Horizon Flight Academy in Al Ain.

So if there is no job in the UAE, where do you go. You can't fly in Europe, Australia, Canada etc without doing a costly conversion. Remember, JAR compliant means nothing if you don't get issued with a JAR license.

As far as I am aware there is no such thing as a 'Frozen ATPL' in the UAE yet. Although it is in the pipeline. You would be issued with a bog standard CPL. At the moment when a pilot wants to upgrade their GCAA CPL license to a GCAA ATPL, they must be issued with a foreign ATPL license and then convert to the GCAA with an ATPL written exam and a check from a TRE at the AIRLINE they work for. I know this because Ive done it, as have many of my collegues past and present. Believe me, if it could have been done locally it would have.

As far as the type ratings are concerned, they will also prove useless if you cannot get a job in the UAE or at least in the GCC. If you are a 250 hour pilot with a type rating and no hours, there are no airlines in the Middle East that will be willing to take you on. Lets say you do spend the money on converting your GCAA license to a JAR license, that type rating you paid for will still be a waste of money if your check was not done by a current JAR TRE and the JAR paperwork was not completed when you passed your checkride.

Don't get short sighted and think that because you did your training in the UAE that one of the local carriers will hire you after graduation. Even with a type rating the airlines over here won't look at you until you meet the minimum hours requirements set out on their websites, which is normally an ATPL and 2000+ hours.

I am not against this new school, I think it is great that they are setting up a school with such a high standard of training and equipment. It will be superb for middle eastern pilots with middle eastern passports. But for foreign nationals, for now at least, I believe it would be a waste of 125,000 dollars. Your money would be far better spent getting a JAR license flying Warriors and Seminols for half the money.

Cheers

DB :ok:

[Nello]

Interesting points...
I am in a huge dilemma now:
One option would be invest my savings on this integrated, knowing that I’ll be training fulltime in top equipment and with jet type rating.
The other is go modular and take my time training in 172…Seminole, etc
Since I have PPL already, modular would be the more convenient way, but It’ll take me more time.
Now, I have passed the first assessment and been invited to the cadet tests and screening to DAE.
Is a 2 days Math and physics exam + interview and psychometrics, etc… but I’m a bit surprised that with the acceptance letter they stated that I have to pay 705 AED for the process.
I’ve been to University and post grade with extensive selection process but NEVER paid for admission screening before. Is it normal?
Any word of advice for this poor (still) private?

[BlueSky1]

No company in the world should be charging a potential student for the screening process. If a new business such as this wants to attract the customer, they should be on their hands and knees with offers for you, and not make you pay.

And look at what you get out of it at the end...a so called 'frozen' ATPL license which is no good unless you have a passport belonging to the GCC region and a dept for US$125000.

If I was you I would spend the money elsewhere...in places like the UK, Asia and Australia where they are desperate for pilots you will have little trouble finding a job first/second officer or instructor even with low time.

DAE Flight Academy promised a friend of mine a whole heap of stuff on paper when he applied for a job there, but after some research he found that their instructor pilots have left very good jobs to be there and they are not happy. A few of them have even skipped town without saying goodbye to avoid local hassles with the contract. This is what stopped me from applying for work there as an instructor.

[Ronnie1982]

I looked into this
It is very new and therefore not yet proven
The $150,000 is all required up-front!!!
The license is GCAA and not easily convertible to a JAA license
The 'type rating' seemed very vague and is not convertible to a JAA type rating at allTo convert the GCAA license to a JAA license:
You must do all the JAA ATPL study and exams from scratch; there is no recognition of the GCAA training or exams
You need to do 'training as required' with an approved JAA school for the CPL and then a CPL flight test
You need to do a minimum of 15 hours training (max 10 of which can be in a simulator) with an approved JAA school for the IR and then an IR flight test
You need a JAA Class 1 medical; no recognition of the GCAA medical
You need to do an RT testSeemed to me that it was not an efficient way of obtaining a JAA license; far better to train with a JAA Approved school. If you then want to get the jet time, you could always pay for a jet type rating out or the savings you would make against this course, and the extra cost of converting your license.

If you are after a GCAA license, and are not price sensitive, it might be great!

[FANS]

I have the possibility of relocating to Dubai - are there are JAA schools there?

[Ronnie1982]

Hi Fans

I lived there for a short while. There are no JAA Approved schools that I'm aware of in the UAE. Beware those that claim to be "JAA Compliant"; it is a con, as it means nothing.

[FANS]

Thanks Ronnie.

If I have a PPL and then hour build over there - do the hours still count (as I am not up to speed on training overseas)?

Many Thanks

FANS

[fibod]

Hello FANS, Ronnie has obviously gone away.

Yes, the hours will count for JAA license issue, and for pre-entry to JAA Approved modular CPL training. However, other than a PPL gained in the UAE, the value of any ratings are limited when it comes to JAA conversion.

[gilderoy lockhart]

I know of no JAA accredited schools in the UAE. Fujairah Aviation Academy started on that route but have now abandoned it. As Ronnie says beware of JAA based and Complient, if you want a JAA Licence it has to be accredited!

The schools in the UAE work best for nationals as they will get employment with a GCAA Licence.

Perhaps MPL may be a solution if an Airline is prepared to get involved in training and offer conditional employment at the end of the course!

Etihad are also offering sponsorship to overseas students but I would imagine there is huge competition.

At the moment with the downturn in Europe and the US the Gulf airlines can stick to there type rated 1500 hrs on a jet minimums for non GCC pilots!

Heard a rumour that DAEFA may not be getting VLJ's now?

[sispanys ria]

Regarding VLJs, beside the current Eclipse situation (just relate it to Grob and Adams...) I really wonder how they expect to conduct safe multi engine training (meaning single engine flights) with a machine loosing loads of thrust above 25 celsius... it would be interresting to discuss this questionable choice of aircrfat witht the academy. For a flight school that would be very demonstrative to ground its fleet during summer.

[Nello]

Just got an email confirming that they'll be receiving the first Eclipse 500 in Feb 09...

[sandboxteacher]

We have all been watching and waiting for something big to happen with this flight academy and, while I know this is said way to offten in this thread, just wait. Things are happening and they will get better really soon. The price has come down, the airlines are knocking on the door again, and things will get better. Other than that, nothing else to say except be patient.

SandBoxTeacher

[Subzero-911]

Hi guys, I am new member but I have been on touch with DAE for some time and I got some INFO maybe can help you ..

*the training which they offer seems to be good but pretty expensive as in the end you need to work in the airline only,,thats all
I was wondered about after all this amount DAE can't give you job guarantee.

*The program is not approved by JAA or FAA only from UAE which mean you will need to convert your license.

*for your information the manufacture of EA500 jet Get bust!!:ugh:

Student accommodation is available for USD 10,000 per year
$125,000 USD program
and if you want to do the regarding type rating in a Jet Transport type category it will be additional costs USD 25,000.
Total of $160.000
So please advice.