Iranian Patrol boats threaten US Warships

[Razor61]

Although not Aviation related (although i'm sure the US Navy put up their Helo's)
News is reporting that five Iranian Gunboats approached US Navy ships transiting the Straight of Hormuz with transmissions picked up saying "We are coming at you, you will explode in a few minutes".
According to unamed sources, the USN were 'very' close to opening fire.

So, what would happen if the USN did open fire on 5 Iranian patrol boats even though they approached with threatening action?

I wonder what would have happened if it was a Nimitz class or any other type of Carrier that was being approached?

[GPMG]

Surely the SOP is to put your hands up, surrender, and sell your stories to the National Inquirer?

[ORAC]

CNN: (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/07/iran.us.navy/index.html) ........In one radio transmission, the Iranians told the U.S. Navy: "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," the U.S. military officials told CNN.

When the U.S. ships heard that radio transmission, they manned their gun positions and officers were "in the process" of giving the order to fire when the Iranians abruptly turned away, the U.S. officials said.....

One of the Iranian ships had been dropping white boxes into the water in front of the U.S. ships, the officials told CNN.

[Mike Oxmels]

So, what would happen if the USN did open fire on 5 Iranian patrol boats even though they approached with threatening action?

The Iranians would deny any provocation, claim American aggression and use it as an excuse to escalate, possibly including more overt cross border meddling in Iraq and The Stan. Despite his 'eccentricities' I would have thought ImMadAsADinnerJacket would hold back from trying to kick off anything too serious until he had a funtioning nuclear weapon. Therefore I wonder if this was the result of a local commander getting over excited without top level authorisation.

[round&round]

"So, what would happen if the USN did open fire on 5 Iranian patrol boats even though they approached with threatening action?"

Hummm,

I think they'd sink!!!

[ORAC]

Or an attempt at provoking an incident to overshadow/disrupt Bush's one week visit to the Middle East starting tomorrow (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/18/bush.mideast/index.html?iref=newssearch)....

[Woff1965]

Surely blow up and sink!

[Double Zero]

I don't know of any details of course, but on the face of it, whether this was a local 'commander' trying to make a name for himself, or something more organised, it seems some U.S. Officers are to be highly slapped on the back for cool judgement - it were me, the heroic patrol boats may well have had nasty pointy things coming their way ! :D

[EchoMike]

US military budget in 2005 alone was $421 Billion dollars plus another $75 Billion for Iran/Afghanistan operations.

Iran's military budget in 2005 was $4.9 Billion dollars.

This does not take into account inventory left over from previous years, nor does it take into account qualitative differences in the equipment OR the personnel. It also does not take into account the cooperation (public or covert) of some other nations in the area, who are not exactly best friends with Iran. (I can think of at least one such neighbor with a very capable military.)

If the US does decide to move against Iran, it is going to be an unholy mess and the Iranians are going to quickly come out very second best.

The politicians on both sides are stupid - the US has a one-track mind right now about Iran, and Iran is convinced that the US is about to attack, so they keep on yelling about how tough they are, and trying to prove it by continually tugging on Superman's cape - which is a mistake on their part.

This is going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy - Iran will lose the fight, big time, everyone will lose the war.

I don't want to think what a barrel of oil will cost . . .

Best Regards,

Echo Mike

[Double Zero]

I wasn't commenting on the 'big picture' personally - though I have to sadly agree with your summary, the gist being that 'Iran would lose any fight, big time, while everyone would lose the war'.

I was simply saying that from the small amount of info' on earlier posts I can glean here - and not knowing the ranges or actual U.S.warships involved - I think it appears to show admirable constraint & discipline from the U.S. involved.

Myself, and I haven't a big red 'phone on my desk I'll admit, I don't think the U.S. are going to deal with Iran except possibly in more subtle but still effective ways, for the foreseeable future.

[Razor61]

Surely the SOP is to put your hands up, surrender, and sell your stories to the National Inquirer?

Perhaps the Americans have the balls to do what we didn't. I can't see any crew from a US Warship in the Straight of Hormuz surrendering.
As the sources said, the Iranians turned around "right at the moment" the USN were going to open fire...

What did we do? Sit there and watch them take RN and RM personnel hostage of which took what, 15 days to get them back without their boat and weapons...

[Double Zero]

I think you refer to a sad example of 'everything that could go wrong, did go wrong'...and the simple fact that the R.N. have vastly inferior kit ( in every way inc. intel' assets / access not just boats ) compared to the U.S.N; and I doulbt the latter were low-crewed or daft / inexperienced enough ( take your pick ) to put young apparently under-trained people inc. women into that situation - it may well have seemed a 'jolly' on a sunny day - .

If you were an Iranian gunboat type, how would you rate your chances of getting away with it a second time ?

[Razor61]

Two F/A-18 Hornets collided over the Persian Gulf today (Monday) and all three crew were rescued and taken back to the H.S Truman in good nick.

DoD stresses that they were not in relation to the incident involving Iranian Fast Attack boats and USN Warships.

[Razor61]

Maybe the Iranians smoke weed like the Afghan Army do when fighting alongside the British in Helmand...
As was shown on TV, the weed smoking Afghans stood up and stayed up firing in full view of the Taliban afterwards to the amazement of the British.

Perhaps the Iranians have the same 'head on' when going about their daily jollies in the Persian Gulf.

With the communications intercepted "We are coming at you, you will explode in several minutes" it wouldn't surprise me one bit.... sounds like they could have been on something just to say that sentence!

[mr fish]

er, we've been here before i think, gulf of tongking 1963, when vietnamese boats supposedly fired on uss maddox(destroyer). later proved to be a hoax which paved the way for usa to massively increase forces in the nam;). still what the hell, (coughs to clear throat) BLOW THE UNGODLY HEATHENS TO KINGDOM COME, etc etc:E

[Double Zero]

Well I can honestly say, happily, I know very little about narcotics - but I thought 'weed' refers to Hashish or Mariuana - both forms of 'pot' as far as I make out ( what's the difference between them ? seriously ...) , but also both well known for making the subject 'mellow' & peaceful, as I've heard, so hardly the most fearsome fighting Terminators !

I'd have thought alcohol is one of the worst drugs for causing aggresive behaviour ( or I suppose in this example one of the 'best' if it's against foes ) - but the stuff the Afghans are keen to farm & sell - basically Opium in it's several end-product low-life forms - is apparently indeed powerful, though whether it makes one incredibly brave or just plain stupid is up for the more stable minded present to comment if they can.

All in all sounds a bit like a poor 'Boy's Own' story - " the drug cazed fuzzy-wuzzies ran at them ..."

[GeeRam]

.....the drug cazed fuzzy-wuzzies ran at them....

Getting close to Cpl Jones speak there.....:D

They didn't like it up 'em either........them fuzzy-wuzzies.....:p

[EchoMike]

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/iran.pdf


Someone might want to tell this particular batch of Iranians that there are far less complex ways to commit suicide.


Reminds me of a similar situation off Somalia last summer - local talent in three speedboats attack a US navy guided missile cruiser and a destroyer, come on with all guns (couple of AK-47s and a grenade launcher) blazing. Action over in 15 seconds - three speedboats sunk, half the bad guys dead, no damage to the big gray ships at all.

When asked "what the f**k were you thinking?", the surviving leader of the bad guys said "We had you outnumbered - there were three of us and only two of you."

Sheesh.

Best Regards,

Echo Mike

[Double Zero]

Yes,

The phrase 'suicide squad', as in Monty Python's ' Life of Brian ' occurred to me too...still I suppose if one get's away with it, what's the Iranian for " Oh my feet are killing me ! " - " Anyway, what did you do at the office today dear ? "

Gee-Ram - " Don't Panic !" it worked for us Brits' in both Corproral Jones' time and the Hithchikers' Guide to the Galaxy - so must be right.

I still say,it would seem the U.S. are to be commended for their judgement on this latest fast boat call.

[brickhistory]

er, we've been here before i think, gulf of tongking 1963, when vietnamese boats supposedly fired on uss maddox(destroyer). later proved to be a hoax which paved the way for usa to massively increase forces in the nam. still what the hell, (coughs to clear throat) BLOW THE UNGODLY HEATHENS TO KINGDOM COME, etc etc

Interesting. The Iranians demonstrated the ability to do such a thing and capture your personnel, but for us, it's a self-driven pretext to escalate.

Did I capture (no pun intended) your point?

[Two's in]

Not to be too harsh on the Royal Navy, they were lifted from a couple of lightly armed rigid-hulled inflatable boats, having left the saftety of their BGT (Big Gray Thing). At least the US Navy remembered that size does matter where it counts, and stayed in their BGTs while being threatened by MyDinnerJacket's latest would be Martyrs, although you can be sure if any of those vessel commanders had felt the threat warranted it, they would have taken the appropriate local action and sorted the politics out later - just as it should be.

[brickhistory]

Two,

I'm not casting aspersions on the RN/RM or the earlier incident. I just want to make sure I understand mr fish's point.

[Fliegenmong]

I did hear an American on the radio this morning suggest that possibly they were getting as close as possible to guage a response, as the Americans did themselves during the Cold War........I'll go looking for it....

[Tourist]

It seems that the times' ship recognition department needs some work.

[Like-minded]

Ahmadinejad is trying to derail Bush's visit to Israel and the push for peace by creating the impression of a crisis just beforehand.

[Fox3snapshot]

....to the incident involving Iranian Fast Attack boats and USN Warships

The statements and local newspaper reporting of this incident quotes the US Army officers as only describing them as '...five Iranian speedboats' and that incident occurred up north of us in the infamous Straight of Hormuz, which has been the epicenter of many incidents of this nature.

Of note the threatening manoeuvres described by the US reports involved 'dropping boxes in the water in front of the US ships Would probably more than likely be attributed to the fact that this seaway is also a notoriously busy smuggling laneway between Iran and UAE and they were madly throwing overboard their stash of Marlborough ciggy's, satellite TV antennas and stash of Playboys for fear of being intercepted by the 'big grey official looking Navy boats'. By the way the Iranians drop of Caviar and carpets in return for these 'illicit items' under the current Iranian regime :sad:

The whole thing is, as to be expected, been completely blown our of proportion (not the water at least which was the case previously!! :eek:)

:cool:

[Wiley]

I think Fox3's version of events is probably the more accurate. Someone's already referred to the Gulf of Tonking (non)"incident", which was the main pretext for the US mainstream ground troops going in to Vietnam, and it would be all too easy for someone to trigger a major incident either in error or on purpose in the very crowded waters of the Straits of Hormouz in a fit of deja vu.

Reference the smugglers: anyone in a position to get themselves up to Kashab (well worth doing - the fiorjd tour and the dolphins, especially at this time of the year, is fabulous), should go to the harbour (or even better, to the headland to the west of the port) in the early evening and watch true free enterprise in action. The smugglers' long boat fleet, both in number of boats and size of individual payloads, is an impressive sight, and, as they set out every evening, resemble a mini spectactor's fleet at the start of the Sydney-Hobart yacht race.

Pity the poor USN ship that was unfortunate enough to be passing through the Straits at that particular time of (every) evening - its crew could be forgiven for thinking Mr Dinnerjacket had sent the whole Iranian Navy out en masse (and at full power) to get 'em!

[West Coast]

Rather than the Gulf of Tonkin think of the USS cole and what a small boat did to it. Its still fresh in the minds of the USN.

[GPMG]

Fair point West, which is why I was surprised to read that the boats had been allowed to get within 200yds of the US Navy. I wonder if th emain gun could depress enough to hit it? I didn't think modern warships had much in the way of secondary armament, unless they had Phalanx, would they have much more than a broadside of squids with M-16's?

[Razor61]

Most major RN and USN warships have now got the "Minigun" capability as well as GPMG's.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.

Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.

Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.

[ORAC]

Iran Denies Threat Against U.S.
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

Iran on Jan. 8 rejected U.S. charges that its naval forces threatened to blow up American ships in the Strait of Hormuz, amid renewed tensions ahead of U.S. President George W. Bush’s visit to the region.

U.S. defense officials said five speedboats from the naval forces of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards menaced three U.S. warships in the strategic waterway on Sunday, radioing a threat to blow them up. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described the incident as "provocative" and "dangerous" amid fears such an encounter could spark a major confrontation between the two foes.

But Iranian officials expressed bewilderment over the U.S. version of events, saying the encounter was a routine question of identification that ended with nothing special to report. "What happened between the Guards and foreign vessels was an ordinary identification," Ali Reza Tangsiri, commander of the Guards naval forces in the region, told the Mehr news agency. "No special engagement took place between the Guards and the foreign side," he said, adding that the Guards’ naval forces had a right to monitor and identify "any vessel entering Persian Gulf waters" to the northwest.

State television quoted an unnamed Guards source in the region as saying: "No threatening message was transmitted."...............

[Ivan Rogov]

I hope they DF'd the comms, I have a feeling the Philipino Monkey could be involved :eek:

[sitigeltfel]

Most major RN and USN warships have now got the "Minigun" capability as well as GPMG's.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.

Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.

Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.

Demo here, although the target splashes a bit close for comfort;

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17d_1199775322

R2D2 with attitude!

[mr fish]

brickhistory, er, not yank bashing or suchlike, just making an observation that history as an unfortunate tendancy to repeat itself, especially with two countries with " previous convictions",shall we say!!

[ricardian]

Re Mr Fish's post. The USA has released a History of American SIGINT and the Vietnam War (http://www.fas.org/blog/secrecy/2008/01/nsa_releases_history_of_americ.html) which mentions that the Gulf of Tonkin attack and shows that not only is it not true, as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told Congress, that the evidence of an attack was "unimpeachable," but that to the contrary, a review of the classified signals intelligence proves that "no attack happened that night."

[Archimedes]

Just for clarity there were supposedly two attacks on the Maddox.

The first, on 2 Aug 64, certainly happened (General Giap acknowledged this, and he doesn't exactly count as a pro-US source) , and may, stress may) have been enough to trigger retaliatory action and get the TGR anyway. That's a matter for debate, but there is little doubt that there was a confrontation between Maddox and Turner Joy and NV PT boats that night.

The supposed 2nd attack is the one that didn't happen - something that was known and accepted within parts of the USN at the time, since the F-8 and A-1 drivers sent to provide support against the 2nd attack spent their time trying to find enemy PT boats but couldn't. US Naval Aviators were expressing doubts about the 2nd attack from the early morning of 5 August 1964, and the consensus at the time was that the crew on watch on the Maddox were jumpy after the 2nd August, and a series of c*ck-ups led to the crew believing (genuinely) that they were under attack. This was then exploited by LBJ's administration to reinforce efforts to gain approval for the executive's actions in Vietnam in response.

[Razor61]

Demo here, although the target splashes a bit close for comfort;

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17d_1199775322

R2D2 with attitude!

That is the Phalanx though, 20mm CIWS primarily used for airborne targets.
I was on about that they actually have 7.62 miniguns on RN and USN Warships now. The same type fitted to the Chinook etc. Makes a right mess of a small boat in a few seconds....HMS Scott and other survey vessels have the 7.62 fitted as do FFG's and DDG's for secondary anti-surface...

[GreenKnight121]

And the threatening radio messages from the Iranian boats?

i suppose those are just more yankee lies to try to justify a war, eh?

Sorry, your explanation doesn't jive with boats maneuvering between the USN ships, not "trying to get away"... or are those more exaggerations?

[Dewey101]

MK38 Mod 2 25mm stabilized gun as fitted on 2 of the three US Navy ships involved...for close in.

http://www.defencetalk.com/military_videos/navy_videos/mk_38_mod_2_20060901.php

[walter kennedy]

Well, after the Gulf of Tonkin incident .... :E

[brickhistory]

Another poster put a very succinct digest of the Gulf of Tonkin incident on the Iranian gun boat thread:

archimedes:Just for clarity there were supposedly two attacks on the Maddox.

The first, on 2 Aug 64, certainly happened (General Giap acknowledged this, and he doesn't exactly count as a pro-US source) , and may, stress may) have been enough to trigger retaliatory action and get the TGR anyway. That's a matter for debate, but there is little doubt that there was a confrontation between Maddox and Turner Joy and NV PT boats that night.

The supposed 2nd attack is the one that didn't happen - something that was known and accepted within parts of the USN at the time, since the F-8 and A-1 drivers sent to provide support against the 2nd attack spent their time trying to find enemy PT boats but couldn't. US Naval Aviators were expressing doubts about the 2nd attack from the early morning of 5 August 1964, and the consensus at the time was that the crew on watch on the Maddox were jumpy after the 2nd August, and a series of c*ck-ups led to the crew believing (genuinely) that they were under attack. This was then exploited by LBJ's administration to reinforce efforts to gain approval for the executive's actions in Vietnam in response.


I find it an easy explanation for the loss of the two jets (and all three crewmembers are ok): Simply, they were from the USS Harry Truman and as he so famously said, "The bug stops here......"

[Pureteenlard]

I can't help thinking that the what the Navy really needs out in the Gulf right now is half a dozen MGB's . . .

[Razor61]

Video footage is available now, although blurry does show Iranian boats coming at and then circling the warships.
USS Hopper, Ingraham and Port Royal were the ships involved.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=652_1199828142

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ff_1199829583

[Andu]

Anyone out there who speaks Farsi and has actually heard the comments made by the radioman on the Iranian gunboat?

Shades of the Gulf of Tonking incident(s), I can't help but feel this story might have grown somewhat in the (re)telling - or been embellished just a little to fit in with someone's agenda.

[ORAC]

Video of the incident. (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/briefingslide.aspx?briefingslideid=320) Still think they were smugglers?

[TEEEJ]

The audio is in English. Why would they use Farsi?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5cf_1199836752

[GeeRam]

I can't help thinking that the what the Navy really needs out in the Gulf right now is half a dozen MGB's . . .

Hmmm.....Dog Boats...:ok:

[HILF]

Didn't know that the classic British sports car floated?:}:}:)

[sitigeltfel]

It was all a fake, concocted by the filthy Yankee imperialists :rolleyes:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/09/iran.boats/index.html

Predictable, or what?

[Like-minded]

This will prove to be the biggest propaganda victory for the US since Gulf War 1.

Iran shown clearly to be bad for regional oil stability, and a lot of countries from Europe to Asia depend on this shipped oil. It's no laughing matter.

Iran then shown clearly to be lying saying nothing happened, raising questions as well of whether the government is in control.

In the face of blatant evidence, Iran shown lying yet again saying that the video is fake.

A rogue state, a renegade state, uncooperative, aggressive, having evil intent. After a few years of sanctions, they'll be ripe for the pickin'.

[Razor61]

A snippit taken from an interview from a defector in Iranian intelligence in Europe.
He goes on to say that Iran has plans to close the St of Hormuz in any event that the US will strike nuclear facilities, ending trade for a considerable amount of time...
"Iran plans to begin offensive operations by launching successive waves of explosives-packed boats against U.S. warships in the Gulf, piloted by "Ashura" or suicide bombers.

The first wave can draw on more than 1,000 small fast-attack boats operated by the Revolutionary Guards navy, equipped with rocket launchers, heavy machine-guns and possibly Sagger anti-tank missiles.

In recent years, the Iranians have used these small boats to practice "swarming" raids on commercial vessels and U.S. warships patrolling the Persian Gulf.

The White House listed two such attacks in the list of 10 foiled al-Qaida terrorist attacks it released on Feb. 10. The attacks were identified as a "plot by al-Qaida operatives to attack ships in the [Persian] Gulf" in early 2003, and a separate plot to "attack ships in the Strait of Hormuz."

A second wave of suicide attacks would be carried out by "suicide submarines" and semi-submersible boats, before Iran deploys its Russian-built Kilo-class submarines and Chinese-built Huodong missile boats to attack U.S. warships, the source said."

Note this paragraph:-
In recent years, the Iranians have used these small boats to practice "swarming" raids on commercial vessels and U.S. warships patrolling the Persian Gulf.

That looks to be what they were doing here, swarming around the convoy all over the place. The fast attack craft he was on about was not military types but commercial speed boats fitted with explosives and suicide bombers at the helm.
(the fact we hear "We are coming at you, you will explode in a few minutes - gives more in the direction of what they were training for perhaps, as above)

The boats we see in the video are exactly this...commercial type speed boats.

[Like-minded]

they can be foiled by the simple expediency of popping smoke.

[Pureteenlard]

Dog Boats! Exactly. Nothing like a fully automatic 6pdr to ruin your militant persian boaters day out.:)

[tonker]

Has Phalanx been given an IR sight/tv point and shoot capability?

I would have thought given it's rate of fire and elevated strutural position this would have been better placed at dealing with swarming attacks than the rather slow 25mm gun featured in a previous video.

Thank god the navy has rid itself of earlier type 22 frigates with no main gun, albeit having a 40mm Bofors.

The next time the Iranians try circling one of our ships we should launch a rib and tow 6 big matlows behind waterskiing like on Jaws 3, all dressed in very tight Borat style swimsuits, hairy brains bulging forthwith.:E

[Utrinque Apparatus]

Tonker, Yes, a (British) dual fov TI Camera with a range in excess of blurble kilometres ideal for shooting down Pasdaran peasants. Don't know about FIAC but depression angles to cater for close in Cruise Missiles should do the trick.

A few dozen GPMG would be much better though - best weapon ever invented to deliver the Iranian wannabes to "Firdous" for their ludicrous 72 virgins and rewards which they will never see in Iran in this miserable life of theirs

[PPRuNe Towers]

I'm sure many of you already know of this but it has been covered again in the OpEd section of today's IHT:

In a war game in 2002, Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper of the Marines was called from retirement to lead a surrogate Iranian force defending against a U.S. attack. The general was recruited for his special talent, devising creative ways to fight stronger, technologically superior opponents.

Using motorbike messengers to keep his communications secure from high-tech eavesdropping, he launched a surprise attack on the U.S. Navy from a fleet of small, fast missile boats.

The barrage was intended to saturate U.S. anti-missile radars, allowing at least a few missiles to reach their targets. This worked perfectly. A U.S. aircraft carrier and 15 other warships went to the bottom.

It was a rout of the Donald Rumsfeld theory of high-tech warfare. In response, the Department of Defense stopped the game, changed the rules, and pretended nothing had happened. By so doing, the department reprised the first act in the worst naval defeat in U.S. history.

Full article here:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/09/opinion/edstern.php

[Gainesy]

they can be foiled by the simple expediency of popping smoke

Ah, yes. I'd overlooked flamethrowers.:E

[despegue]

Here is my opinion on this "incident"...

As a former Deck officer with a Western European Navo Navy, I feel the need to remind all of you here about one detail:

The "so-called" threat "We are coming to you, you will explode in 2 minutes"
is broadcasted very clearly. An IMPOSSIBLE thing on open-deck fast moving speedboats. It is therefore clear that this transmission did not come from any Iranian Speedboats.
As the Street of Hormuz is one of the densest navigated parts, it is therefore my professional opinion that the "threat" came from another ship in the vicinity. Incredibly stupid obviously, but a lot of deck officers and crewmembers only use "channel16" (the channel on which the threat was made In my opinion) for stupid remarks. eg. "pilipino monkey, Russian Donkey,etc..." It is therefore plausible that someone overheard the transmissions of the American fleet and decided to "participate".

I must stress again that the broadcast could NOT have come from these Iranian speedboats.
This is also the opinion of all my former collegues in the Belgian Navy, and we've been patrolling in that area before.

[brickhistory]

Interesting, but not relevant, is it?

The fact that the Iranians came at the USN flotilla at high speed, zipped in and amongst their formation, as well as heaving things overboard in the path of the oncoming ships to cause them to change course repeatedly would seem to be enough.

Guess I'm a typical Yank because had I been in command, I would have opened fire. As mentioned previously, the USS Cole is still fresh in our minds.

Not firing was the correct call in this instance, but what if it had gone the other way and a USN ship now had a big hole in it and dead sailors? That captain would have rightly been court-martialed for hazarding his ship.




Also very interesting tactics used and written about, i.e., the war games and the Iranian defectors debrief. Another case of overwhelming a billion dollar system with low-tech. Gotta give 'em credit for brains.

[GPMG]

It is therefore clear that this transmission did not come from any Iranian Speedboats.


Ah nuts....... so all of those messages thatI sent to other sections and my troop commander whislt travelling at blah blah knots on our Rigid Raider Mk2's werent recieved? And the quite clear comms that I heard from the 'jellyfish' attached to my ear were just my imagination?

Perhaps you Belgians should invest in throat mikes, then people might hear you whilst traveling at speed.

[Dewey101]

Tonker,

Phalanx Block 1B does indeed have FLIR and surface mode. However Port Royal is also equipped with MK38 Mod 2, and this would have been weapon of choice for this type of threat - fully stabilized, remotely operated, Toplite electro-optic flir sight, with laser range finder, 168 rounds of 25mm high explosive incendiary with tracer on mount. Bye bye speedboats.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Apparently the Iranians are now saying that what was shown in the videos was simply routine ops. Perhaps they want to change their 'routine' before they get hosed with lead.

[Double Zero]

When I first heard about the incident I remarked the U.S. warships had shown commendable restraint; having seen the video of just how close the nuts in speed boats were, I'm not so sure !

I would suspect it will be made extremely clear to the Iranians that ' if they do that again...'

As for the source of the radio broadcast, I can't believe for a second it was just a spectator joining in - DF will sort that out so the answer is known I imagine.

May even have been a pre-recorded message as part of nutter training, set off in error - seeing as this lot weren't all that suicidal ( in as much as pressing home an attack ); what they did was very like what's now known as ' suicide by cop ' though !

As for 'popping smoke', well even little things like my sailing boat have radar, probably able to show a bl**dy great warship in calm seas even if mounted on a fast moving speed boat...

As it turned out, the right call was made ( I suspect some senior officers might feel differently )- but I must say if it was me, the speed boat enthusiasts would still be coming down in tiny fragments right now, and I suspect that will be the reception decreed for any repeat perfomers.

The Americans have proven they're not trigger-happy as some make out - but they should be able now to feel free to react to threats like that.

[WhiteOvies]

Both US and Iranian vids show the same incident but some interesting editing from both sides can twist what happened. At least one Iranian vid shows the speed boat transmitting still in the water some distance from the USN whilst his oppos can be heard revving off in the distance (also sound and picture jump at one point). Also some fairly close 'recce' pictures but the destroyers are clearly going max chat (30ish Knts?) with the speed boats matching them whilst the camera pans left and right. Too close for comfort in these stressful times. One persons 'routine ops' becomes someone else 'hostile act' too easily.
Did they or didn't they threaten to blow them up is the question? Either way we can all be thankful that this scenario didn't go downhill very quickly.:uhoh:

[tonker]

Next time these fockers turn up we should follow them round with these....:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjzlerNjjA&feature=related

[West Coast]

despegue

I suppose you and your contemporaries within the Belgium navy also pan the Iranians audio. As suggested, time to invest in a better pair of walkie talkie's for your navy. Radio shack if I may suggest.

[despegue]

And may I suggest you US Navy to rely more on seamanship and common sence then technology, seeing that during joint manoeuvres in 2000, your Navy wasn't even able to use the sextant nor understand flag signals...

[despegue]

hahaha! The Pentagon have now admitted that the threats most probably did NOT come from the Iranian Speedboats...but from some unknown broadcaster...
To those who commented on my earlier post, your ignorance is forgiven.

[Archimedes]

The 'unknown' broadcaster could easily have been someone from IRGC ashore...

You said that it was 'impossible' for the transmissions to have come from the speedboats. As noted they could have done so with the correct kit, and it was this bald assertion that was picked up by people who have experience of using that kit for real - so accusing them of ignorance is just a tad arrogant.

[Double Zero]

Haha yourself chum...

While the transmission could have come from the speedboats or elsewhere as now mentioned, I think it a fair bet it will have been D.F'd & by various means & the transmitter source will be known.

In mentioning that transmission is possible from speed boats or similar, no-one showed any ignorance but was rather trying to be informative for you - I rather doubt you are who you say you are.

As for sextants, well they have their place for tuition but not ready use on a 21st century warship, & I suggest the U.S. ships could have flown International Code flag 'U' but what are the chances of the speedboat chaps recognising it ?!

All the signals these types need come neatly packaged, at high velocity.

[brickhistory]

And may I suggest you US Navy to rely more on seamanship and common sence then technology, seeing that during joint manoeuvres in 2000, your Navy wasn't even able to use the sextant nor understand flag signals...

The ENTIRE US Navy?! Or just whomever you were liaising with?

In the event it is the entire USN, then fortunately, we've got spares.

And you?

[West Coast]

As for them, ask about the Belgium central government as of late.

As to your navy, did you discuss your findings will all three of your colleagues? Fishery protection isn't sexy, but its vital isn't it?

[GPMG]

It is kind of funny when you look at the size of the Belgium fleet list, it's almost cute.

However thanks to Labour it will probably be twice the size of the Royal Navy in a few years time.

[Tourist]

A couple of quick questions.

1. If the situation were reversed, and the Iranian Navy sent 3 large and immensly and unopposably powerful warships (hypothetically, I know they don't have any) to cruise 50 miles off the Florida coastline, would the US Navy :-

A. Stay in port.
B. Zoom out in whatever boats they could get hold of and give the Iranians some sh1t.

2. Does anybody think what the Iranians did was unreasonable (foolhardy yes, but that is often called bravery)in the face of, what is to them, a serious threat from a beligerent foe?

[West Coast]

Russian bears make their way off US shores without threat. Intercepted yes, threatened no. I have no problem with the Iranians coming out for a look see, just do it right.

BTW, those aren't questions, its **** stirring.

[Tourist]

Not at all West Coast, I go to war against who I am told.
I just don't feel the need to demonise them first.

know thine enemy and thyself

[despegue]

Must I remind some people here that the US Navy themselves trough NATO asked the Belgians to take care of the mine sweeping in the street of Hormuz in the 90's as we are well known to be the best in the world in it? (and the best equipped ships for that matter). We still find WWII bombs in the North Sea and English Channel.

Oh, and no, on a voyage in 1999, near the Cabo Verde Islands, we lost our GPS system and did not have spares indeed...we continued on celestial navigation to Gran Canaria. So indeed, we have no modern equipment like the US Navy or the Royal N. No budget for that I'm afraid, but I doubt that the Iranians have their guys in the speedboats equipped with the most modern gimmicks...

[brickhistory]

1. If the situation were reversed, and the Iranian Navy sent 3 large and immensly and unopposably powerful warships (hypothetically, I know they don't have any) to cruise 50 miles off the Florida coastline, would the US Navy :-
A. Stay in port.
B. Zoom out in whatever boats they could get hold of and give the Iranians some sh1t.
2. Does anybody think what the Iranians did was unreasonable (foolhardy yes, but that is often called bravery)in the face of, what is to them, a serious threat from a beligerent foe?

If by sh1t you mean shadow them, collecting all the sigint and elint as well as snapping a gazillion photos, then yes, that's what the USN would do. Cut in and amongst a formation, dumping unknown objects in their path and making fairly explicit statements of the interceptee going 'boom' in the next few minutes, no.

[Lazer-Hound]

despegue is clearly a 'wah'. Either that or he's demonstrating why increasing numbers of Americans hold Europe in contempt.

[Tourist]

No AIDU.What Sun Tzu actually said was almost certainly in a totally different language, so back in your box.

And I thought the current opinion was that they didnt make the calls?

[West Coast]

"but I doubt that the Iranians have their guys in the speedboats equipped with the most modern gimmicks"

Do you have anything other than your opinion to arrive at this conclusion?
If not, why would you even hazard a guess what the Iranian navy has or doesn't have on its boats?

[Razor61]

Must I remind some people here that the US Navy themselves trough NATO asked the Belgians to take care of the mine sweeping in the street of Hormuz in the 90's as we are well known to be the best in the world in it? (and the best equipped ships for that matter). We still find WWII bombs in the North Sea and English Channel.

Oh, and no, on a voyage in 1999, near the Cabo Verde Islands, we lost our GPS system and did not have spares indeed...we continued on celestial navigation to Gran Canaria. So indeed, we have no modern equipment like the US Navy or the Royal N. No budget for that I'm afraid, but I doubt that the Iranians have their guys in the speedboats equipped with the most modern gimmicks...

You sound like a kid in an argument at a school...
Are Belgians the only Navy finding WW2 mines are they? Think you'll find the Royal Navy and US Navy and a lot of other Navies all over the world for that matter doing the same sterling work and finding mines or bombs everywhere. There are plenty to go about and find, especially in the North Sea and English Channel.

You'll find the crew onboard HMS Endurance use the Sextent and other means of navigation other than GPS on their route down to the cold place as well.

I'm sure your budget would allow spare GPS systems, even a Garmin hand held would work for navigating most seas if not all.

Why has this thread suddenly turned into a "Yank bashing" thread?. They are on the same f$%^^& side... working alongside the Royal Navy and other Coalition Navies. The Iranians "clearly" on video were speeding around all over the place obviously testing the patience of the DDG's and CCG and getting within 600ft of USS Hopper. That is too close. You saw clearly on the video the erratic and wreckless manoeuvres the Iranians were doing to provoke the US Convoy.

So what if those 'words' didn't come from the speed boats, the fact is, the speed boats were wreckless and provoking in International Waters. There is video evidence of that.

If the Iranians want to come up the English Channel let them do it, like someone on this forum said, we intercept Ruskie Bombers and Ships(!) in the North Sea and shadow them, say hello, and wave goodbye, we don't go round barrell rolling over their bomber or weaving in and out like a tw%t.
Nor does our Government go round saying they will wipe countries off the map and have an aggressive stance in whatever they do or say against most other countries.

[November4]

Must I remind some people here that the US Navy themselves trough NATO asked the Belgians to take care of the mine sweeping in the street of Hormuz in the 90's as we are well known to be the best in the world in it? (and the best equipped ships for that matter). We still find WWII bombs in the North Sea and English Channel.

I seem to remember the Royal Navy doing some sweeping in the late 80's - Op Calendar / Cimmnel IIRC? It got me a couple of long weekends in Dubai whatever they were doing.

[GPMG]

Non agressive shadowing? Phoo-ee.

How do you explain that ace fighter pilot called Maverick giving the Bird to that baddie. Think it was in a documentry a while back. He even has a Polaroid to prove it.

[tonker]

Interesting new video with a US warship on an anti speedboat exercise. Seems the aerial proximity 5 inch rounds and Phalanx did the most damage.

Looking at the light arms fire landing, and considering some of the weapons they might carry for short range work i think these are not a viable option.

Anyway here it is, some with sound and some without.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c76_1200107941

[Pontius Navigator]

I read that 'script' over 12 years ago. It was straight from the O***** **** and word perfect. The engagement range clearly would be dependent on the defensive and offensive weapons systems.

From the video I didn't see any tube launched weapons systems so a minimum approach distance of 200 yards would possibly have been acceptable. Any rifle fire at that range would have been inaccurate. For defence, OTOH, 200 yards would have been ideal.

On the original script I mentioned the 'target' was an aircraft and the open fire range was 15 miles. The weapon system? It was the 15 inch guns of the BBG :)

[Tigs2]

Just to lighten things up a little, still as funny as ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkt_jXHm6u0

[Archimedes]

:)

Although before we get inundated with persons missing the joke, yes, we know it's not actually true and was made up by the US Coast Guard in a spot of inter-service banter....

http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp

[Like-minded]

Belgium has a navy?