KLM 747 returns to JHB on 3 engines

[Tallman]

Seems one of the engines caught fire an hour after departure today and the crew returned to JHB. A new engine will be sent from Amsterdam as per De Telegraaf. Any further news on this from one of the pro's? Did the paper get it right this time? Apparently no panic on the plane, crew handled the info in a sensible way.

[Romeo E.T.]

I actually think that its going to 3-engine ferried back to Holland..judging by http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=695692&page=27

KL592 JNB AMS B744
Flight delayed 50h. Aircraft returned to JNB after inflight aircraft defect. Aircraft will be ferried back empty in 2 days.

[SpootNICK]

Just heard about the KLM engine shut down on the 5 o'clock news.

I dont see what all the fuss is about.......especially in the local media. Engines are shut down all the time, precautionary or otherwise. I see a growing trend in SA media to sensationalise an otherwise ordinary event. Ok, an engine fire may be considered a little more serious, but I am still sticking to my origional point......the flying public in SA is growing rapidly with the advent of the various LCC's and as such is still very young and inexperienced w.r.t normal aviation events. One only needs to look the papers from the past 3 months to see how the media has reported every thing from the unfortunate Nationwide saga, to comair returning to JNB because of an engine oil filter clog light coming on.

I am in no way insinuating that SA's media is unique in their approach to these stories, but i sincerely hope they mature in their approach to stories such as this. Granted, I agree that the flying public needs to know about events such as these......but I think the manner and tone in which these stories are reported leaves alot to be desired.

My 2 c worth

SN

[Gauteng Pilot]

And this thread says a engine is being ferried down

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=776090

[Tallman]

Seems the sensible thing to do (ferrying back on 3 empty) as they have their maintenance facilities in Amsterdam but is it good practice to do such a long haul on 3 - They could take another hit and then what?

[south coast]

Then they would carry on on 2, it would be empty.

[Jamex]

Well said SpootNICK:D

One engine falls off an aircraft, no one is injured, crew does what they are trained to do, everything placed there for the purpose clicks into place and operates flawlessly but this still does not satisfy the media!! From then on every single everyday incident must be blown out of all proportion. Sunday nights e-news was a "classic" example. According to this "report" everything to do with aviation is dangerous. Pilots are reckless. ALL aircraft in SA are improperly maintained, if at all. ALL the companies in aviation are screwing the public. Not a word about road accidents. Nothing said about the wonderful taxi industry. And then, on the same night, a KLM aircraft (omigosh, a foreign aircraft!) has a problem and has to turn back! Lets see if our Big Boy media now want to go after the whole worlds aviation "problems"

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

According to the link provided by Gauteng Pilot a spare engine is being del here on KL591. Assuming this does happen can anyone advise how it will be shipped, ie, would it fit onboard or would it be slung under a wing?

[Gauteng Pilot]

Underwing


http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/middle/9/6/7/0635769.jpg

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

Thankyou for your very quick response Gauteng Pilot I'll try and look out for that one. :ok:

[Gauteng Pilot]

SAA -400 carrying one

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/middle/4/2/7/0136724.jpg

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

Another good example thanks. I noticed in both pics that it is slung under Port wing, is this a Boeing design (Port wing only) or a preference or just co-incidence. :rolleyes:

[Gauteng Pilot]

Port wing only

[Gauteng Pilot]

From inside the cabin

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/middle/9/2/4/0289429.jpg

[Gauteng Pilot]

SAA -300
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/photos/9/9/4/0264499.jpg

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

Thanks Gauteng Pilot, I appreciate your help.

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

I've only just seen reply 14 & 15 after my reply 16. Now I'm more keen than ever to see this in reality on finals ( assuming it arrives on 03L/R ).

[Gauteng Pilot]

Unfortunately the flight mentioned arrives at night ( around 10pm )

[Juliet Sierra Papa]

I guess I was being too optimistic there. I hadn't even bothered checking the schedules out yet. Thanks again anyway.

[south coast]

Is the 5th engine running at some kind of zero thrust setting to avoid any increased drag penalty from just free-wheeling?

[172driver]

Interesting to note they didn't carry on. There was an endless thread over in R&N about a BA 747 that experienced engine failure shortly after t/o from LAX but carried on (on three) to the UK.

[Aspen20]

Boeing call this setup a 5th Pod.
There are only wing attachments on the port wing. the strut is a self contained unit with a built in winch system to get the engine on and off the wing.

There is 5th pod performance figures to operate the aircraft, including a lower max flight level and a lower max cruising speed.

Not 100% sure about this part. On the JT97R4G2 engines, there was a special cowling to prevent / reduce the airflow through the engine core. some or all of the fan blades were also removed.

[Gauteng Pilot]

You cant just make out in the pictures the grey color "aerodynamic cover" that is placed in the 5th engines intake, to direct airflow through it.

The engine cannot run in that location


The 707 used to fully enclose the spare engine in a pod.
As did the VC-10

The L-1011 Tristar could carry a 4th engine on the starboard wing, and it was open like the 747 engine

[johan_jnb]

just to set things straight here... GE CF6 can't be transported as 5th pod...

KL operates 747-400Combi to JNB and the CF6 fits quite nicely on the maindeck, 16ft. pallet. Same arrived JNB on-board KL0591/07JAN AMSJNB.

[Jamex]

"KL operates 747-400Combi to JNB and the CF6 fits quite nicely on the maindeck, 16ft. pallet."

Combi with 410 pax on board?

[mactheknife]

Isn't 410 pax on a normal 744 (with multi-class cabin) a bit much anyway (let alone Combi configuration)???

[Jamex]

mactheknife said "Isn't 410 pax on a normal 744 (with multi-class cabin) a bit much anyway (let alone Combi configuration)??? "

All reports say the aircraft had 410 pax and 17 crew on board. Sounds a bit much for a three class layout but would depend on seat pitch and not sure what the layout/config is for KLM anyway. Maybe someone knows? 743's I operated in the East had 475 seat config in a one class, high density seating layout.


172driver said "Interesting to note they didn't carry on. There was an endless thread over in R&N about a BA 747 that experienced engine failure shortly after t/o from LAX but carried on (on three) to the UK."

Thats because their next stop was not Nairobi in its current mess:}

[sleeper]

KLM has only 2 class cabins. More-over, KLM's 747's come as combi or full passenger configuration. So 410 is a full pax configuration.

[mactheknife]

Must be b-all legroom with the cattle...
:uhoh::uhoh:

[johan_jnb]

on 6 JAN KLM operated a 747-400FULLPAX! PH-BFL to be exact.

KL Fullpax config 436seats, 2class cabin.
KL combi carries 280seats, 2class cabin and 7 maindeck pallets.