Team,

Have searched the threads and web - lots of contradicting info... Seriously considering importing an a/c from the US. Mainly this is due to cost and availability over there.

Every month I import a couple of 40' containers of gear so freight costs, VAT, import duties etc are easily dealt with.

The main question I have is one of certification. For example, if I was to buy a luscombe 8, is it possible to get a PFA Permit? How about a cessna 140/170/180? Is the procedure specific to a given a/c model or generic to all a/c?

Cheers!

You might want to send a PM to IO540. He knows a lot about this stuff.

Two suggestions.

If you are looking for an aircraft that you want to fly as a PFA type give them a call as they are the definitive source of information on the subject.

If you are doing anything on the VAT front other than importing the container and paying UK VAT get professional advice in this particular subject. (Unless of course the containers you import are full of aircraft ;) )

Also, the type of aircraft you seem to be looking at are not good ferry candidates so they need to be economical to crate and uncrate.

No more Luscombes allowed on a Permit to Fly - if imported they would have to achieve a C of A. Other vintage PFA types have the same problem.

If you could import Luscombes for a Permit issue then there would be dozens coming in every year. Lovely machines but not financially viable on a C of A (compared to a Permit).

Lack of supply (of UK Permit Luscombes) and an increase in demand has meant silly money being paid for aircraft that require a lot of work on them.

Shame, as very nice Luscombes can be picked up in the US for less than $20000.

The only Luscombe that remains for sale in the UK, AFAIK, is the only C of A example - G-BVEP at Oaksey Park.

I've never physically imported a plane but have sent Pudnucker a PM with some info relevant to N-reg ownership / transfer to.

Get onto the LAA web site and look up TL 1.06 on importing permit aircraft. Give them a ring about what aircraft are on the Annex ll as the aircraft you can put on a permit has grown hugely over recent months with Austers, 4 seat Jodels and several more moving across. I know of several people who have imported RV’s and I understand the RV4 is very inexpensive in the US at the moment.

Rod1

I imported a new Mooney Ovation 2 GX in 2005.
It was ferried across the Atlantic with an interim stop in Reykjavik only (long range wing tanks provide >2000nm range at economy cruise).

If it is to stay on the N-register (made most sense for me to do this and will for the forseeable future despite reports to the contrary on this site) then the aircraft needs to be "owned" through a US trust company. I use Southern Aircraft Consultancy who have been very straightforward.

VAT is payable unless you import the aircraft through the Danish loophole (OPMASet al - which has not closed yet despite reports that it would from Jan 2008).

If you operate the aircraft as a leaseback to yourself you can claim the VAT back then only pay the VAT per rental hour. This is perfectly legal and as long as the rates are realistic and the aircraft gets plenty of use (i:e the revenue see a reasonable return coming in) they will probably leave you alone.

I operate the Mooney and an R44 helicopter (G-reg and bought in the UK)through a VAT registered Partnership. If doing it again I would use the OPMAS route for the Mooney.

Now is a good time to buy with the dollar being weak and the OPMAS route still being available.

Good luck,

SB

Pudnucker,

Ensure the aircraft you wish to import is able to go on a LAA(PFA) administered Permit BEFORE you import.

Aircraft on Annex II (List of aircraft EASA are not supporting so CAA responsibility - NOT LAA(PFA)) are NOT automatically entitled to go onto the LAA Permit system. Annex II aircraft are a National resonsibility, this falls to the CAA. It's up to them to decide what system the aircraft is admistered by/on.

Just because there is already a type (ex Factory - not Kit built. Eg in the USA on a CofA) with a LAA administered permit does NOT mean yours will be given the same treatment. The rules have been changed many times over the years since some types have been taken onto the LAA(PFA) system. There was talk of some aircraft having to go back to a CofA.

April'07 - The PFA would not take ANY new historic/ex CofA aircraft as they had been told not to by EASA/CAA. Recently (June'07) this appeared to have changed to allow historic but again the rules have changed (Nov/Dec'07).

Just because the CAA tell you a new type could go onto the LAA system get it in writing from them before you import as they may change their mind later!

Take care it will not be an easy process.

Tim.

The above does not apply to experimental/homebuilt.

Obviously my search terms weren't up to the job, as I have just found this thread only 3 days old!

Keep the good stuff going, and I'll post here as I go on with my, hopefully, purchase...

Sam.

Dear all,

1. I am trying to import an N registered Maule MX7 180, to Belgium. I would like to keep it on the N register for the moment.

I apologise for any incorrect use of terminology - hopefully you understand what I mean!

I need:

FAA licence (piggyback on JAA for the moment, although I aim to get standalone).
US Radio operators certificate
Trustee ownership (non-US citizen)
Insurance
To pay import VAT on arrival EU

1st one I have.
2nd is just a paperwork and USD150 (I think) payment
3rd apparently relatively easy, about GBP800/year (through professional company)
4th still looking at options (brokered through US or Belgium most likely options)
5th - this is the interesting one! Denmark

The law changes possibly on March 1st, more likely April 1st. If the paperwork has already started (contracts signed) before then, the Danish 0% vat applies - once 'in' you are free to go. You have paid EU VAT, it just happened to be EUR zero. So, if you want your N reg here in europe, without actually paying any cash for your VAT import, get your paperwork done by 1st March...

After the law change in Denmark (March or April probably), normal VAT applies (ie 17.5% in UK, 21% in Belgium or 15% in Luxembourg - the cheapest option).

Hope this is useful to someone!

Sam.

Sam,

I am thinking of doing the same as you. Keeping the A/C on the N register also has the advantage that it can legally fly as soon as it is reassembled and signed off.
Changing to the G register requires inspections and if they find anything they are not happy with or non standard, then it can take an age to sort out.

I believe Anglo American do trusts and can sort out a single insurance to coverflying in the US, shipping and flying in Europe.

One question;

If I was to consider changing to the G register, I have been advised to get an Export C of A before the A/C leaves the US (this might not be exactly the correct name). Apparently, this makes the registration change much easier. Does anyone know how much this would cost on a small single engined aircraft and how long it is valid for? I might wish to change registration sometime in the future and wonder whether this might be useful to keep in the filing cabinaet even if I leave the A/C on the N register.

ZA

I'm actually planning on flying it back, that's on the 'things to do once in your life' list!

I'd be interested in an answer to your CofA question - or indeed any advice about things to do immediately 'easily' in case they need to be done later 'with difficulty'.

I'm also a great believer in keeping options open (might also make it easier to sell later on if it's on a local register, or if new owner has a painless choice of either local or N).

Sam.

Anglo are here, for info...

http://www.anglo.co.gg/contact.html

I've sent you a PM, Zulu.

A smart strategy IMHO with any N-reg is to do nothing to the plane which would prevent a transfer to G when necessary.

This is somewhat limiting especially if you want to fit some slick modern avionics, but with care the overall picture can be managed so that a transfer to G would cost "only" 4 figures in paperwork.

Basically you use a company to do the (big) job which also has EASA approvals and tell them to make sure, as far as possible (and you will never know if they are honest in this) that they do the job in a way which would be EASA certifiable had they done the same job on a G-reg.

But you never know what will or will not be EASA certifiable in the future. IMHO, EASA will have to accept more and more FAA equipment (because America runs the aviation world, basically) but they might get shirty regarding FAA field approved mods which should either be done in a manner that is not readily detectable (and documented in separate documentation which can be witheld) or be done in a manner enabling the item to be stripped out. As an example, I looked at fitting a RH light cluster to the TB20 (which has only a LH cluster) which would drastically improve night visibility when taxiing but this would be an absolute total nightmare to recertify under G (5 digits probably) and it is also rather visible ;)