Watch this HALF CUBAN, that nearly wasn't
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9fe_1199633828
:mad::ugh:

Watch this HALF CUBAN

Actually, it wasn't. It was a reverse half Cuban. A half Cuban has the roll on the 45 down line, not the up line. It wasn't worth any more than 0.5, or maybe 1.0 out of ten, anyway.

TheOddOne

Well, it was mucking about, not aerobatics. :hmm:

Well, as I recall, the military for some reason deem a half cuban with the roll on a 45 up line as a half-cuban, and with the roll on a 45 down line as a reverse half-cuban....

Anyway, looked more like a quarter-clover (up) to me - maybe he was practising for the the Apprentices - personally, I'd say he was just brushing the base of the box there, honest Guv - you know how it is, you turn up for a competition in something big and grey with military markings, half the judges will call it low on general principle, whereas the other half will claim they couldn't see it on account of the grey camoflague paint-scheme (but still call it low anyway). Bah humbug.

I'd say he was just brushing the base of the box there, honest Guv - you know how it is, you turn up for a competition in something big and grey with military markings, half the judges will call it low on general principle,

There's a solution to this, y'know Ed; you get drawn at no 1, then do the box flight at 800'. You never heard that idea from me, all right?

Bah humbug.

A little late with the seaonal greeting, aren't we?
See you at the AGM?

TheOddOne

ps
Well, as I recall, the military for some reason deem a half cuban with the roll on a 45 up line as a half-cuban, and with the roll on a 45 down line as a reverse half-cuban....


...which shows how much the military know about aerobatics!

Well, they did invent them!

Half roll on the 45 up = Half Cuban eight
Half roll on the 45 down = Half Horizontal eight

What do the civvie aerobaticists call the 'half roll on the 45 up'?

half the judges will call it low on general principle, whereas the other half will claim they couldn't see it on account of the grey camoflague paint-scheme (but still call it low anyway). I don't usually see ANY of you when you are flying (which is probably just as well) - I spend my time writing down the judges remarks so you can all discuss them later and then tell me either I wasn't paying attention to what was said or I didn't hear properly what they told me. :E
Just joking
PS: The link no longer works. :(

DX - how about a mini digital voice recorder? Saves RSI on the writing hand, and sorts out the squabbles later ;)

Now there's a good idea. :ok:
EH, you know how it is, you turn up for a competition in something big and grey with military markings, You wouldn't by any chance be referring to a certain YAK (I know the markings have changed recently but those were the ones when I had a trip in her)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/DX_Wombat/P1011051.jpg
would you? :E Plenty of coloured bits on that one. :ok: BEagle, keep in mind that you are dealing with a scribe, not a competitor or judge, can you explain to me whyHalf roll on the 45 down = Half Horizontal eight
something which is apparently performed when flying at an angle of 45Deg is called a Half HORIZONTAL eight? :confused: :confused: :confused:
I'll catch up with the rest of you at one of the competitions, in the meantime, a belated Happy New Year to everyone. :)

Ready to get shot down in flames here......

I saw no big probs with that clip:

He entered at warp speed at a given/known height.

He then barrel/Cubanied around and just relaxed the back pressure to make the ensuing loop look more dramatic.

Rule One at Display Flight School is - make it look exciting but just don't try the impossible.

Whether or not he scores a one or two with the Odd One (and he actually isn't!) or with EHarding (and he might be!). That chap was being paid to do what he did!

BEags - the term that I think you are looking for is a "reverse half Cuban". An incredibly unforgiving maneouver for airshow pilots! And as for being invented by the military, I beg to differ - in '32, Len Povey an American barnstormer was contracted by Cuba to teach their neonate Air Force to fly the Curtis Hawk. Whilst 'batting the aircraft at the Miami Airshow (IIRC) he realised that his loop apogee was not high enough to recover, so pushed and rolled. On landing the crowds, 'cos aviation was a closely followed thing in those days', asked him what the maneaouver was: A Cuban Eight, said Povey on the spur of the moment.


Hope that helps,

Stik

It wasn't worth any more than 0.5, or maybe 1.0 out of ten, anyway.

Coincidence. I've been studying the judging school notes on the aerobatics.org.uk website today, 'cause I hope to be competing (at the Basics level) later this year. What he did looked more like half a barrel roll followed by half a loop. With a loss of points at the end of the loop for not being exactly CGT - it's impossible to judge the loop itself from this angle. Oh, and because of the half barrel roll, the entry axis was not nearly the same as the exit exis.

If what he attempted was indeed a reverse half cuban, it should be a hard zero, IMHO.

Anyway, do carriers use QFE or QNH?

It looked like the QNH he nearly collided with... :eek:

Somehow doubt if he (mis-)judged the pull-out by reference to the altimeter...

You wouldn't by any chance be referring to a certain YAK


Not that one, but a stablemate ... but you should be seeing that one at a competition this year.


What he did looked more like half a barrel roll followed by half a loop.


A quarter-clover - traditionally a glider figure, also appearing in various guises in power sequences.


Somehow doubt if he (mis-)judged the pull-out by reference to the altimeter...


That was exactly what did for the Thunderbirds F16 flying the same figure(ish) a couple of years ago - mis-set altimeter meant the gate height at the top wasn't met.

On the basis that the popular mnymonics for QNH and QFE are "nautical-height" and "Field elevation" respectively, I'd go with QNH...

On the basis that the popular mnymonics for QNH and QFE are "nautical-height" and "Field elevation" respectively, I'd go with QNH...

Yeah, but does QNH take into account the tide and the height above (actual) sea level of the deck? Zero feet on the QNH may thus be well below sea level.

A quarter-clover - traditionally a glider figure, also appearing in various guises in power sequences.

Isn't a quarter-clover essentially a loop with a 90 degree roll in the up- or down segment? In other words, when the nose is 90 degree up or down? In this particular video, I don't think the nose got that far. Therefore it looks more like a barrel roll segment to me.

I was thinking about this last night. A barrel roll doesn't gain as much height (I guess about 300 feet in the R2160 I fly) as a half-loop loses (about 500 feet). So that might be the reason that the bottom part of the loop was a bit, well, spirity. Am I right?

He then barrel/Cubanied around and just relaxed the back pressure to make the ensuing loop look more dramatic.


Not the way I saw it - if that had been the case the nose would have been fairly level at the bottom then a pitch up would have had him climbing, as it was he had the nose well up and still descending - and the water showed how much:eek:

What do the civvie aerobaticists call the 'half roll on the 45 up'?


BEagle,

Stiknruda has already answered that detail, but it does highlight the general confusion over names for various aerobatic figures and the manoeuvres contained therein. For instance, we have a figure called a 'stall turn' that the Americans refer to as a 'hammerhead' and a 'flick roll' to them is a 'snap roll'. To avoid/reduce this confusion, for the purposes of worldwide competition a Spanish bloke Count Aresti produced a coded drawing system that describes each figure, with a unique catalogue number for each element. Different sorts of figures are grouped into Families. Thus it is possible to add complexity to simple basic figures. For instance, that basic half roll on the 45 up line could have either been 2 1/4 hesitation rolls or 4 1/8 hesitation, or, or, the list is almost endless. The catalogue figures for what appeared in the video would have been from family 8, an 8.32.1 with a family 9, 9.1.2.2 on it.

It is tremendously difficult to accurately fly these precision figures in a fast jet, though we did once have someone compete at Beginners in a Jet Provost (including the stall turn without the fire going out, quite a feat!)

Cheers,
TheOddOne

It is tremendously difficult to accurately fly these precision figures in a fast jet, though we did once have someone compete at Beginners in a Jet Provost (including the stall turn without the fire going out, quite a feat!)

Did he stay in the box, or not?

I am impressed, all that from one little clip. Most enjoyable.

By the way I forgot to say the pilot was French!:}


The low exit, reminds me of a lecture that Neville Duke gave at Cranfield, about the first Hunter Display at Farnborough in front of a record crowd when he did the same thing and pulled out of the dive at some 50'.:eek:

They sold alot of Hunters that week, but it was years later before he admitted to not setting the QFE at Farnborough!!!!:ok:

:mad:

I wonder if he caught any fish in his intakes? :hmm:

http://vmphoto.photobox.co.uk/album/album_fullsize.html?c_photo=1420471797

Re: Ken's image - found it, nicked it, rehosted it...

http://www.plus7minus5.co.uk/images/wok/wok52.jpg

Is that you Ken? I cant believe you would go beyond 35 degrees of bank!

Did he stay in the box, or not?

Mostly! I think those of us judging were more impressed by the spectacle than by being too picky on something like positioning. He didn't win, anyway...

'twas at Sandtoft sometime in the 1990's.

TheOddOne

you should be seeing that one at a competition this yearAnd about time too. :E

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg224/kenwells_photo/cj.jpg 35 feet at least