New BA carry on rules

[mickjoebill]

See new BA carry on rules below.
Around 35kg of hand luggage is now allowed per passenger. (23kg for a bag and no recommended weight limit for a briefcase)
This is good news for the business traveller in general, but with every ounce/gramm of excess checked baggage being charged at the gate what is the chance of long haul flights becoming top heavy as budget travellers avoid excess charges?
How much can the bins safely hold?
Surely a couple of hundred 23kg bags belong in the hold?
Or are they grooming SLF to eventually accept no checked baggage at all?

Mickjoebill


From BA
"We've got some great news: thanks to new guidelines from the UK Department for Transport, we're increasing our cabin bag allowance. As of 7 January 2008 you will be able to carry two pieces of hand baggage through security when departing or transferring from London Heathrow, London City, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow or Manchester airports.
The British Airways hand baggage allowance is as follows:
•
One bag no bigger than 56 cm x 45 cm x 25 cm (22 inches x 17.5 inches x 9.85 inches) (including wheels, pockets and handles)
•
In addition, one briefcase or laptop sized bag
The maximum bag weight is 23kg and you must be able to lift the bag into the overhead lockers in the aircraft cabin unaided.
The restrictions on carrying liquids have not changed so make sure that any liquid containers you plan to carry do not exceed 100ml and that they are in a clear, re-sealable plastic bag.
Other UK airports are expected to phase out restrictions in line with the new guidelines. Until this happens, the one-bag allowance still stands for all other UK airports. If you are flying from or transferring through other UK airports, it's worth checking with the transferring airline or the airport operator before you travel. Also check if you are flying from another UK airport and transferring through Heathrow.
I hope you find the increased allowance makes travelling th[COLOR="Blue"]at much easier and more convenient. Thank you for flying with us and we look forward to seeing you again soon.
Warm regards,
Executive Club Manager"

ends

[World of Tweed]

Whilst one commends the new rule as a return to liberty it leaves us still with the futile 100ml rule on liquids.

Also may I add the liquid rule is only applied in asia on international routes.... not domestic? Am I missing something here apart from my toothpaste?

[ZFT]

Whilst one commends the new rule as a return to liberty it leaves us still with the futile 100ml rule on liquids.

Also may I add the liquid rule is only applied in asia on international routes.... not domestic? Am I missing something here apart from my toothpaste?


You need to be more specific as every domestic Asian sector I've been on this past 6 months or so does implement this daft rule.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Surely 23Kgs for hand luggage has to be a typo. None of the internal comms mention 23Kgs but it does specify 23Kgs on ba.com as long as you can lift it yourself. Who would be able to do that in a crowded aisle? There may be space for 5 wheelie bags in a locker but I really doubt it could support 115kgs. Would you want that over your head?

[bealine]

Surely 23Kgs for hand luggage has to be a typo

It is not a typo. However, in reality, if the maximum size trolley bag that fits the gauge was full of wine bottles, it would only weight 14-15 kg maximum! If it was full of bits of engines, then that might be a different matter. Fortunately, we don't get too many people wanting to carry engine bits and bobs on board!

Mind you, I am still not too happy about having 14-15 kg bags over my head!

[VS-LHRCSA]

Still doesn't sound right though and that line doesn't appear on BA News Interactive or in the article on the front of the latest BA News, so it does make me wonder. I've checked in LOS with trolley bags over 20Kgs being passed off as handluggage, so it can be done. If I hadn't weighed the bags, we would never have known. I've also crewed plenty of LOS with all sorts of things being brought on board, including engine parts.

If you're right and it IS going to be 23Kgs, that actually might save some time in the terminal but I'm really surprised the unions have agreed.

[bealine]

If you're right and it IS going to be 23Kgs, that actually might save some time in the terminal but I'm really surprised the unions have agreed.

You and me both! However, British Airways prostituted itself after EasyJet removed the weight limit on cabin baggage. The management argued that we needed to compete with EasyJet on a level playing field if we were not going to lose the business travellers.

Personally, I always felt Virgin was right in sticking to its guns on cabin baggage and banning wheelie bags from the cabin! (Two reasons: (a) The pressure transmitted through the wheels does severe damage to the cranium if the bag falls and (b) the "trolley bag" allows passengers to carry heavy stuff on board with relative ease. If you had to lug a grip or a shoulder bag around the terminal, you would only pack it with things essential for the flight!

Unfortunately for us all, commercial pressure won! :rolleyes:

[RevMan2]

Overhead bins are weight-limited to a certified figure.

(I seem to recall a labelled max weight of 70kg on B737. Can anyone confirm this?)

Let's say you have 3 (or even) 4 items in a 744 (drop-down) overhead bin. That's perhaps 100k.

Question 1
Who's going to close the bin?
Question 2
Who's brave enough to sit under it?

Not me, for sure...

[172driver]

You guys just don't get it, do you ? This puts BA in a position where they can - finally! - deal with the baggage handlers the way they should be dealt with. If everyone can bring what amounts to ALL bags on board, these people cannot hold BA or the travelers to ransom any more :E

Well done, BA, you just might get me back as customer :ok:

[apaddyinuk]

Just remember....If you cannot lift it yourself....dont expect the crew to!

[VS-LHRCSA]

Ok, humble pie time for me.

I confirmed it with Internal Comms, passengers WILL be allowed to bring 23kgs board, as long it the bag meets the dimensions.

So, yes, it will hopefully reduce lost baggage claims. Time will tell whether it will lead to other problems. I'm choosing to say positive over this one - maybe that's the hypoxia talking.

[Momo]

I can't see the restriction on wheeled bags anywhere on the Virgin website. Anyone got a pointer?

[VS-LHRCSA]

There was no such restriction when I was working for VS. As long as the bag fitted the dimensions was weighed no more than 6kgs in Economy, it didn't really matter.

[bealine]

I can't see the restriction on wheeled bags anywhere on the Virgin website. Anyone got a pointer?

It's no longer the case. I believe the restriction was lifted in 2004.

There was no such restriction when I was working for VS. As long as the bag fitted the dimensions was weighed no more than 6kgs in Economy, it didn't really matter.

There was definitely a restriction on wheeled bags which Virgin, British Midland and British Airways enforced rigidly after the British Midland crash at Kegworth where the CAA recommended a maximum 5 kg limit as cabin baggage was responsible for most of the fatalities in the passenger cabin.

Certainly, in 1997 Virgin was still rejecting wheelie bags, but BA started to relax and so did BMI. The legal culpability for passenger injury from insecure overhead items has also legally shifted from the airline to the bag's owner!

Commercial pressure by EasyJet removing any weight restriction has led to the free for all we are seeing now!

[hippotamus]

I tend to agree with the sentiment "if you can't lift it don't expect us to" , but as a 4ft 10 ish person I have severe problems on a lot of commercial jets. I flew recently from LHR to YYZ on AC's new 777 in first class. There is no place to put your bag under the seat in the new suite arrangement (this is my usual solution to the can't reach bin scenario) and I seriously could not reach the overhead bin , my husband was stuck over the other side of the cabin (we didn't realise that although the seats are side by side on the seat map , you can't get to or talk to each other!!) . He had to walk all the way round , through the galley and back up to put it in for me!

Personally I think all carry on baggage should have to fit under the seat , I get very nervous with those heavy bags above my head!
Having said that I also think that planes should be designed so that there is room under the seat .

[MidgetBoy]

I brought my laptop onboard a Cx flight with some important documents in the laptop bag, it ended up being 14kg, heavier than my check-in. If anyone carries a 23kg bag (ie. not on wheels), they're in for some pain.

[10secondsurvey]

I have never had a wheelie case refused as cabin baggage by VS, so the rule must be very old.

One important point is this, just because a wheelie bag is used, it does not imply the luggage is heavier than say, someone with a holdall. I use a wheelie case whlst travelling on business, to avoid knackering my arms, as often changing flights three times in one day involves a great deal of walking and standing around. My wheelie usually weighs around 7kg max, because I still have to lift it at some point. Any airline refusing a wheelie case would immediately lose my custom.

I accept some pax take liberties with the weight of their hand luggage, but it is completely wrong to assume that all wheelie cases are really heavy, whilst anything else would be ok.

In addition, my wheelie case is actually below the max size guidelines. It's actually smaller than many holdalls.

All we need now is for the lunatics in charge to ditch the stupid liquid nonsense, although that seems unlikely with the newly announced (absolutely bizarre) battery limits just announced by the loonies in charge in the US

[MrSoft]

That is a very sobering thought. I wasn't aware of that Bealine.

[perkin]

the CAA recommended a maximum 5 kg limit as cabin baggage was responsible for most of the fatalities in the passenger cabin

Why was this never enforced? It makes me quite nervous to see the size and apparent weight of some of the luggage some people carry on. 23kgs is frankly ridiculous!

I think airlines/handling agents should be a bit braver and remove more oversize/overweight handluggage at the gate, to be returned immediately on disembarkation, as per many of the smaller regional aircraft types. The safest place for heavy and hard objects is the hold in my opinion.

[Final 3 Greens]

Why was this never enforced? It makes me quite nervous to see the size and apparent weight of some of the luggage some people carry on. 23kgs is frankly ridiculous!

In the event of a jet crashing into a motorway embankment, then I would not rely on 5kg baggage to save my life.

Heavy bags falling out of a locker would be more of a concern for me.

[bealine]

One important point is this, just because a wheelie bag is used, it does not imply the luggage is heavier than say, someone with a holdall

Whilst I studied Physics at school, I am no expert but someone at the CAA who investigated the Kegworth crash was! In the case of a trolley bag, the pressure transmitted through one wheel of an empty bag striking someone's head would be equivalent to a soft bag, or grip, weighing about 15 times as much.

That was the reason the CAA quoted 5kgs as the recommended maximum cabin bag weight and no trolley bags! Unfortunately, it was only ever a recommendation and never fully enforceable!

Whoever noticed the "plated weights" of overhead lockers is quite right. Those weights are the absolute maximum the fittings that hold the locker in place are designed to hold, factoring in a bit of leeway for turbulence. Every day, now, these plated weights are being exceeded and, yes, passenger safety is being compromised for the sake of "free enterprise and healthy competition!"

THANK YOU EASYJET FOR COMPROMISING OUR SAFETY - WITHOUT YOU, THE CABIN BAG WEIGHT LIMITS WOULD STILL BE IN PLACE!

[perkin]

Heavy bags falling out of a locker would be more of a concern for me

Exactly my point :) Even worse if an overloaded section of locker comes down with potentially a couple of hundred kilos of baggage in it... :eek:

THANK YOU EASYJET FOR COMPROMISING OUR SAFETY - WITHOUT YOU, THE CABIN BAG WEIGHT LIMITS WOULD STILL BE IN PLACE!

Many of the airlines I've flown with recently have advertised a 10kg limit in the small print, unfortunately its rare for bags to actually be weighed at check-in...surely if the aircraft weight and balance is calculated assuming 10kg of hand luggage per pax, if everyone arrived with 23kg, this could make a significant difference to gross aircraft weight, even on a 737/A320 type? In my opinion the volume of hand luggage is a problem which really needs to be addressed by the airlines on the busier routes...it really isnt fair when someone turns up with nothing but a large briefcase, only to find no locker space as many others have oversize luggage or more bags than permitted.

[Final 3 Greens]

Whoever noticed the "plated weights" of overhead lockers is quite right. Those weights are the absolute maximum the fittings that hold the locker in place are designed to hold, factoring in a bit of leeway for turbulence.

Can any qualified professionals confirm whether these bin limits are included in the aircraft C of A or any other airworthiness documents, or are for guidance only?

[VS-LHRCSA]

I was wondering when you would show up Final 3 Greens. I always like to get your take on these things and no, I'm not being sarcastic.

Can't help with your CofA question but I can confirm Bealine's quote about the Kegworth incident. While the situation was unfolding, long before impact, the aircraft was shaking violently and the contents of the lockers where spilling out and injuring people.

This was 1989 of course, so no wheelie bags and laptops and locker design has been improved since then but it does pose the question of how much of risk is having even heavier bags in the lockers above you.

I can see arguments either way, so am not going to venture an opinion (too tired) but it's makes me wonder.

[Final 3 Greens]

Thanks VS.

Heavy bags dropping out could well induced by the a/c shaking violently, e.g. sev turb or even asymmetric slat, the first of which is certainly more probable than a crash I would have thought.

BTW, I am sure that I recall (last year or two) an airline using some kind of netting restraint in the overhead bins, in the last year or two, which was secured just before closing the lid.

Can't remember the carrier, but it struck me as a very good idea, if not a panacea for all evils.

Risk management is always a contentious matter, since there are may different agendas and risk attitudes, which is why I asked the question about the status of the bins, since if they are an airworthiness issue then aircraft should not be departing with limits exceeded, whereas if only advisory then the benefit-cost calculations come into play.

Having said that, I find it difficult to believe that UK airlines would fly in breach of airworthiness regulations.

[perkin]

an airline using some kind of netting restraint

I know some of Jet2's 733's have these, but that will be a relic of the previous owner (I think they have a few ex-Ansett, Lufthansa and some US derived airframes). Its just a shallow (4 or 5 inches), stretchy net which effectively extends the bottom edge of the locker upwards and is in position all the time, seems a sensible idea to me...

What is perhaps more worrying with BA's new weight limit is the likelihood of overloading the locker structure, which under more extreme loading could well break free...

[Final 3 Greens]

Perkin

Now you mention it, I believe it was Jet2, with whom I have only flown once.

[bealine]

Having said that, I find it difficult to believe that UK airlines would fly in breach of airworthiness regulations.

I agree, to a point. The trouble is, most "regulations" these days are rather woolly and the low cost operators are continually challenging them! Many of the procedures we, as front-line staff, are led to believe are "Regulations" are in fact "Recommendations" which are not the same thing at all! Indeed the 5KG upper limit on cabin baggage after the Kegworth crash was always only a "Recommendation".

Maybe the plated weights on the lockers are "Recommendations" too or "Chinese Writing" (how London Underground speed limits were often described when I worked for them, before the Moorgate disaster! We had more than one Piccadilly Line train returned to Northfields depot with dents in the roof after ignoring the limit at Barons Court when entering the tunnel!).

Going Off Topic, or digressing, for a moment we at British Airways always used to make a big issue about accepting late passengers or baggage. The Dispatcher (now known as a TRM) used to say "I've got my Load Sheet, it's too late to adjust." This was especially true on a lightly loaded machine where some seats were blocked for trim and some passengers may have even had their seats changed to shift the weight fore or aft.

Now that our "Dispatchers" have become "TRM's" (or Turn Round Managers) the responsibility for the Load Sheet has devolved to a separate department away from the airfield.

Since EZY and RYR came on the scene, we block seats for trim only very occasionally and don't seem to move passengers for trim any more. EZY and RYR, with their policy of "free seating" seem to treat their aeroplanes as if they were busses, and their "Dispatchers" seem very young and inexperienced in comparison with our people.

This begs the question, "Is all the fuss about weight and balance, and the Dispatchers giving themselves mental anguish trying to get the Load Sheet to balance all an elaborate myth to create an aura of mystique around the job?

Or, more seriously, are certain criteria that we used to worry about now simply being ignored? (and I am NOT for one second saying they are, I am merely posing the question!)

[bealine]

it really isnt fair when someone turns up with nothing but a large briefcase, only to find no locker space as many others have oversize luggage or more bags than permitted.

I agree wholeheartedly!

The only trouble is, my own airline, British Airways, has had such horrendous problems with missing baggage that many passengers are understandably reluctant to let their bag go in the hold.

(Not all the fault of BA I hasten to add - a lot of this has to do with the ancient systems at Heathrow never designed to cope with the number of bags it is having to deal with!)