I believe he's holding it the wrong way round

[Maxibon]

RAF boss draws his pistols

4 Jan 08

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, has been practising his pistol shooting at Bisley for the Air Officers and Station Commanders Pistol Match. He hopes to demonstrate to younger members of the Armed Forces a central part of military life - being able to defend themselves. Report by Ian Carr.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/PeopleInDefence/GenerateThumbnail.aspx?imageURL=/NR/rdonlyres/475A45E9-DD9E-48F3-905C-B79D3A66AC09/0/Torpy.jpg&maxSize=210 (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/475A45E9-DD9E-48F3-905C-B79D3A66AC09/0/Torpy.jpg) Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy takes aim on a target 15 metres away
[Picture: Harland Quarrington]



Having emptied a full clip into the target from 15 metres, Sir Glenn Torpy rendered safe his 9mm Browning pistol and slipped it back into his holster. He stepped up to the target to see how good his practice session had been and to get a few pointers from the safety officer advising him:"It's not been a bad effort," the range officer whispers to me. "Actually, he's something of a natural. If he put in a bit more practice I reckon he could be one of the lads on our team."Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, President of the RAF Small Arms Association, is preparing to face a band of senior hot shots in the Air Officers and Station Commanders Pistol Match.
This is Sir Glenn's third year competing for the winner's trophy, something he achieved the first time he took part, but which he modestly passes off as "a fluke". Last year he came third. Something about his approach to the practice session makes you sense that he wants to improve on that this year.


Looking at the 20 other competitors, it appears the determination to win may also be burning very strongly in some of them. And why not? How often does someone still climbing the greasy pole of RAF command have a chance to challenge the man at the very top in a friendly contest on equal terms:"It's a good gathering," says Sir Glenn. "Not quite as many as last year because of commitments."Apparently no one in uniform is immune to the time sapping influence of two major operations.

"It gives us a chance to practise a central part of military life: being able to defend ourselves. I'm really keen to encourage that." Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, Chief of the Air Staff



This is a rare day away from the job for Sir Glenn, although it does not quite qualify as a day off:"It's going to be great fun", he says. "But at the same time it gives us a chance to practise a central part of military life: being able to defend ourselves. I'm really keen to encourage that. I want to instil in all youngsters in the Service that if they find themselves in Iraq or Afghanistan they need to be able to look after themselves and their mates. If they see their senior officers taking time to do something like this, then they know they can too."So how did he do, blazing away at the cardboard commando charging towards him? Not bad at all. Just as he did last year, CAS grouped his bullets nicely around the heart of the target, achieving third place with 107 points out of a possible maximum of 150.
He's clearly chuffed, but the shooting is not over yet. In the next event, each team of three will blast away at clay tiles on a rack ten metres away, shooting against the clock.


This time the rest of the competitors may be taking more notice of the career pecking order. Then again it might be sheer skill. Whatever, CAS and his team achieve a comfortable second place. Does he mind failing to achieve first position? No, not really. Well, maybe just a bit:"Its pretty noticeable that competitiveness is getting more fierce," he says. "There's evidence of more practice going on around the bases."You get the feeling that he is planning a few more practice sessions himself.

[Ivan Rogov]

Good to see he is interested in a real core millitary skill rather than all the ethos tosh, ie: Where shall we get pissed or wouldn't it look good on my SJAR if I were an AP Mentor.
He might even see fit to replace our 1967 vintage pistols, a good design in it's time but designed before WW2!
I've been too busy to attend Bisley (RAFSAM) for the past 5 years, will be the same again this year :(

[RETDPI]

He's in the Army.

[Maxibon]

Thanks SRENNAPS

The whole point of this website is so one can express themselves. You can call me a pathetic individual and I can express my displeasure about who I perceive to be a weak and misguided leader i.e. Torpy. I'm not bitter and twisted about the Air Force - I thoroughly enjoyed my 6 years there. I feel its terrible that a fine service such as the RAF, from when I joined in '88, has been left to rot through a dreadful lack of investment into the much needed areas through poor leadership and outdated visions in procurement.

Perhaps c**k was a tad uncalled for but I resent mindless news articles by the MoD especially concerning such an ineffective individual.

So no offence directed towards you or the rest of the RAF, I have my views and am just as entitled as the next man to express them.

Maxibon

[Green Flash]

Back to thread, slightly. The last time I fired the SLP the rounds would have more effect if I'd thrown the damn things. Made a loud bang though. Do aircrew still carry PPK's? What would be your shooter of choice?

[ShyTorque]

I left for similar reasons but at least this leader is getting off his backside and attempting to show some proper leadership from the front.

[moggiee]

Back to thread, slightly. The last time I fired the SLP the rounds would have more effect if I'd thrown the damn things. Made a loud bang though. Do aircrew still carry PPK's? What would be your shooter of choice?
I always found them pretty accurate - I suppose it'd the old adage about the bad workman and his tools! :)

[Green Flash]

Oi! My tool is very accurate! Sorry. OK, close in it's going to ruin your day, granted. But this day and age is there a pistol that can keep the baddies a bit more than arms length away? What about the MetalStorm wunder gun?

[rmac]

20 years ago, Glen Torpy was a good egg. Myself and a few other junior officers had a fine night getting pissed with him in the bar at Bruggen not finding out that he was the new Station Commander until he walked in to breakfast the next morning...:eek: Followed by frantic mental revisions of last nights conversation for anything incriminating :uhoh:

Not a word on his side other than "morning chaps !"

Can't believe that he would have changed that much. Good on him !

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Green, I would go for the Gloc 17.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:lN_GN_3FK9iF9M:http://www.airsoftgi.com/images/kwcg17.jpg (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.airsoftgi.com/images/kwcg17.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php%3FcPath%3D139_87_115%26products_id%3D432&h=300&w=420&sz=7&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=lN_GN_3FK9iF9M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgloc%2B17%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa %3DG%26ie%3DUTF-8)

Light, accurate, well balanced and reliable...... just like the PPK or Browning....... Not.

Advo

[Green Flash]

Advo

Heard alot about them but never used one.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Small amount of moderation required there chaps. Please try to avoid naughties.............

Happy New Year.

PPP

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Mile,

Great choice, but a bit heavy for our FJ friends?

Advo

[BEagle]

Desert Eagle Point Five Oh!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/DE_MattBlack.jpg

Actually, I'm surprised the RAF isn't still using these:


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/yepiftole-1.jpg

[GeeRam]

Glock would be the sensible 'head' choice........:ok:

But, a Colt 1911 in .38 Super would be my 'heart' choice....:cool: or a new aluminium Colt XSE in .38 Super for a compromise between head and heart......:}

[Maple 01]

I think you'll find that BEags was issued with the trusty flintlock for dispatching the enemies of King Grorge on basic at His Britannic and Imperial Majesty's Collage for Aviating Gentlefolk back in 1783 and is therefore entitled to look down on your new-fangled revolving pistol contraptions that are clearly the work of the devil

I'd go for a Skorpion myself.

[RobinXe]

P229 Dak :o

[eagle 86]

AIDU,
Everywhere you go you are a pain!!
GAGS
E86

[FakePilot]

I prefer anything that uses blackpowder. Gives you a smoke screen to retreat if necessary.

[diginagain]

I often thought that carrying a PPW was more of a placebo than anything else - if you were that far forward to use it deliberately, you were carrying something with a bit more clout as well; if you were there by accident, questions about calibre amd mag capacity become rather academic.....

[Biggus]

I take it this has nothing to do with the new standards of 'markmanship' that I hear are now part of CCS.

CAS showing he is up to the mark, and 'anything I can do....'. I can't really complain about leading from the front I suppose - the sign of a good leader they say.

I've got a good idea for future recruitment. Let's get people off the high street and put them through infantrymen training. Keep the really fit guys and marksmen and weed out all the rest. Then give those that are left apptitude tests to decide what they will become, aircrew, ground trade, etc.

See most of you on the range at remedial pistol shooting!

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

No glasses? They make you wear glasses on the ranges over here.


Plus aren't you supposed to hold the gun with the handley bit horizontal?

[minigundiplomat]

I take it this has nothing to do with the new standards of 'markmanship' that I hear are now part of CCS.



Oh god, not another new initiative! How about flying aircraft? Can we launch that as an initiative?

[flipflopman RB199]

Is it a criminal offence to want to shoot you, AIDU?


Flipflopman

[BEagle]

Maple01, yes, you're right!

I never trusted the new-fangled idea of putting the bullets in the other end. Ramrod and ball down the muzzle, that's the way!!

[flipflopman RB199]

But just think how his family would feel, it isn't very nice to be threatened with being shot etc etc......

And so went the rest of the PM from AIDU :rolleyes:


Flipflopman

[Spiro]

Just amazed torpy managed to talk about something other than the typhoon!:}
Now he can talk about FJ's and shooting - cant wait for the next station visit:ugh:

[FFP]

I must say I'm always intrigued by the follow line that I hear at CCS / in the Crewroom / in the cruise.....

"The PPK is sh!t. You'd be better off throwing the thing at them !"

And I see it posted here too.

I'd love to test that hypothesis out one day. Shoot someone in one leg and then throw the gun at the other, see which one hurts / inflicts more injuries. Can't see it being the throwing option myself, but it seems that there are a lot more smarter people out there than I is that think it will, so maybe I'll be shocked ......;)

I'm afraid I have nothing to say about Torpy and the shooting incase you're hoping for an on-topic post. Sorry.

[Ivan Rogov]

Seem to remember reading in Tornado Down that one of their PPKs failed to fire when the bad guys tried it?
Hope they are both doing well and Iraq is a distant memory. They showed me round a jet in 92, a few years before I joined :ok:

[stiknruda]

Many years ago, I was r-d'ed to be O i/c live pistol firing for a whole summer. Candidates came from far and wide, the ranges were top notch, the DIs and armourers were top notch, too.

The ammunition that was supplied lacked a certain "friction".

The rounds in question had been issued and signed for: 5 straight into the revolver, 5 to rattle around in the ammo pouch - for an eight hour shift. At the end of the shift, 10 rounds and a revolver handed back to the armourer. This occured 3 times a day! This had gone on for 25 years.

After 25 years and an incident where the bullets bounced off the bad guy's leather jacket (ISYN) , it was decided to withdraw ancient ammo and consign it to range duty.

I recall standing behind a portly WO, who favoured the "John Wayne" method of range shooting - hold it belt high, forewent the advantages of the double trigger and just cycled the hammer with his left hand. Of his 5 rounds, I saw 4 exit the barrel and land short of the 15M target!

The 9mm hi-power was quite sweet, as long as your thumb web was well clear of the cocking action!

[Samuel]

I'm surprised you're still using the Browning, it was replaced by the Glock years ago...but in the days when we 'suits' in the Head Shed had to do our annual pistol qualification, we attended as we were, wearing the obligatory suit, followed by a duty lunch at Shelly Bay and a few glasses of whatever....I blame various COs, all GDs, of that wonderful establishment who didn't have enough to do.:D but knew how to start a party.

I line up on the range, in the classic two-handed, knees bent, take aim....and loud ripping noise as trousers split from front to back..

I spent the rest of the day wearing a long mac like a flasher. Got all the shots off however, and a marksman.:ok:
The Browning was a noisy little bugger.

[SaddamsLoveChild]

Fired the Browing in Baggers, made enough noise, kept some jundies head down and made my ears ring for a few minutes while I managed to run away with the American I was with, His beretta made more noise though...

One round did go through a car door at 10m, if I am honest it should have been the car next to it but hey I was sh*ttin myself and breathing like an RAF policeman on GDT:eek:. - it was an aimed shot though.

[rmac]

Does anyone know when was the last time shot down aircrew decided to shoot it out with the opposition like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid". ?

Surely the weapon is issued as part of the survival pack for shooting rabbits ;).......or yourself if Terry is coming to get you :eek:

[rmac]

Not exactly......................:hmm:

[airborne_artist]

AIDU - Terry is a mate of Al :ok:

[airborne_artist]

Al and his mates are friends of Ossie :ok:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Al is in fact Alice which begs the question Alice? Alice?...who the f@ck is Alice? :E

[airborne_artist]

Terry is properly called Terry Taliban. The Taliban is closely connected with Al Quaeda, which is largely run by Osama (Ossie to his mates) Bin Laden :}

[MadsDad]

I did mention to a FJ pilot once a facetious comment I had read to the effect that aircrew and guns were a dangerous mixture.

The response was "It's safe enough really. The only way you can hurt someone with one of the PPKs is to hit them with it".

[Maple 01]

Alice? Alice?...who the f@ck is Alice?

More like Aliice? Alice? were the f@ck is Alice?....sung to their long suffering boss after a night in the Shepards...wasn't me

[TMJ]

Back to thread, slightly. The last time I fired the SLP the rounds would have more effect if I'd thrown the damn things. Made a loud bang though. Do aircrew still carry PPK's? What would be your shooter of choice?

They're PPs not PPKs, whatever the Bond wannabes say... As OC Arm at Honington I wa asked by a Major going to the sand whether he could have a PP rather than a Browning; my armourer chief and I advised him to stick to the Browning, as you'd do more damage with it when you swing it at the enemy's head...

[Rheinstorff]

The PP's round (the same as the PPK's) transmits more energy into the target at typical pistol engagement ranges (F*cking close) and is potentially more lethal, albeit it carries fewer of them.

The Glock is not impressive and has not been approved for military use by the Ordnance Board.

The whole debate is over which pistol is best for aircrew is largely pointless; you're only given one in order that you have something to hand over as a tangible sign of surrender.

[MightyGem]

Ahhh...the Browning 9 milly. The only weapon that I could achieve marksman status with on range days.

[Al R]

Although the point about it being the PP has been made, the story behind its introduction is possibly, typical of procurement.

The RAF only got them when a member of the DPG had a stoppage with one during an attempt to kidnap Princess Anne in London, back in the 70s. They decided to get rid of them, and only realised afterwards that they had made a blunder with servicing (I think). A small pin should protrude at the rear of the slide above the hammer indicating a cocking action, but it was reported that this occasionaly broke, causing possible feeding problems. I think I'm right in saying that the officer's PP wasn't modified.

Not a massively effective wpn across the baord, but for close and immediate protection, more than adequate. The half cock style capability especially, and light action, being ideal if you've been injured in the descent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Princess_Royal#Kidnap_attempt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4139187.stm

http://www.ianball.me.uk/

[Archimedes]

That last link is.... interesting.:uhoh:

[Al R]

I used to receive mail from someone in Rampton (long story). The writing started off ok, it was neat, calm and horizontal. As the letter wore on though, it would start going all over the place. The pencil would be dug deeper and deeper into the paper and before your eyes, through the medium of the writing, you could visualise the guy losing the plot.. as he put his thoughts onto paper.

Scary. And sad.

[StopStart]

That last link made for a cracking late afternoon read! Having perused all the now very obvious facts of the case, I can safely say -

http://tippinthescales.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/fruitcake.jpg

in a caring sort of way, obviously...

[BEagle]

Al R - are you sure it wasn't from someone at Brampton?

The writing style you describe sounds familiar.....

[Al R]

I rather thought it looked like one of my F6000 written responses.

"Such mental pain over such a long period of time has resulted in the complete destruction of my personality. This means that, when I sue the authorites, I will get record damages - at least £2million."

[Pontius Navigator]

Does the Walther have a slide? IIRC you just had to squeeze the trigger.

Personnally I prefered the Sterling - now with 30 rounds and full automatic you could scare a few crows.

Biggest draw back of the 9mm weapons was the Indian bullets. Somene must have made a fortune short charging the cartridges. Sometimes they didn't leave the barrel even.

[Al R]

It has a slide and a double action trigger.

Explaining to people the importance of keeping ammunition dry used to be a bugbear, Indian or otherwise.

Still. In the grand scheme of things..

[RETDPI]

Al R - are you sure it wasn't from someone at Brampton?

The writing style you describe sounds familiar.....


F*ck off Beags, I've long retired!

(We didn't all live in the Brampton Old Peoples' Home - Some of us were in the now demolished Salvation Army Hostel -when we weren't detached)

Advice given for when meeting the "Viet Mick " of old.

"Chuck your 9mm well to the left , and whilst they're scratching about there -

smartly exit stage right."

[Al R]

Mike,

Ref Lyneham FS.

I know who you're talking about. He became a Bootie Reservist, last seen at the Albert Hall a few years ago. Career finished under a cloud if its who I think it is. Smallish, lithe, black hair, 'tache?

[RETDPI]

Smallish, lithe, black hair, 'tache

Well, I must say that narrows it down a bit.:8

[Al R]

Initials CC? Into his martial arts..?

The rest fits. He was a JNCO on my basics course at Catterick. He wasn't much fun there I can tell you. :hmm:

[Basil]

Recollect this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUC6SX-DBVA&NR=1) happening once or twice.

Used to consider position if Basil and chums found wandering by bad infantry.
Couple of 9mm pistols vs grenades, AK47s etc., esp if one had recently slotted one of their mates or civilians :uhoh:

Edited to say the video is probably of a misfire rather than a jam :O

[Al R]

Count yourself lucky you weren't this guy.

Yee ha, ride 'em cowboy. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&feature=related)

[rockape2k7]

which Basics were you on? CC was an instructor on mine too (BG5A/82)

[GeeRam]

The RAF only got them when a member of the DPG had a stoppage with one during an attempt to kidnap Princess Anne in London, back in the 70s. They decided to get rid of them, and only realised afterwards that they had made a blunder with servicing (I think). A small pin should protrude at the rear of the slide above the hammer indicating a cocking action, but it was reported that this occasionaly broke, causing possible feeding problems. I think I'm right in saying that the officer's PP wasn't modified.

Aah, Jim Beaton, my late Father knew him quite well from their days together in uniform on the beat, before Jim ended up in RP, and later on when my Father ended up in RP as well.

I do remember my Dad's conversations afterwards about "unreliable autos" and after the Princess Anne incident RP quickly changed to revolvers. This is the first technical explanation I've heard though, and your explanation seems to fit in with the reality, and a typical knee jerk reactions by the brass. I do have vague recollections of my Dad saying some of the RP officers were in favour of the PP's being replaced by Colt Commander's as they were compact enough, and they wanted the one shot stopping of the .45 as well as the proven reliabilty, and some didn't like the stronger 1st pull needed with the double action PP.
I suspect that idea got chucked out on cost and politics grounds.....

I am surprised the Met had enough PP's for RAF use (unless the RAF ordered more later?) as I would have thought only the relatively few Royalty and Ministerial CP officers had PP's at the time...maybe Special Branch as well...?

The DPG being uniformed still had issue revolvers at the time IIRC.

[Al R]

rockape2k7,

The one after you, no sprog bashing please. The one too, which used to have to carry railway sleepers everywhere :{. Didn't most of you go to 51/58?

Nice to see you. Lots of aircrew, but despite that, a sensible debate isn't unknown here.

[Al R]

GeeRam,

Sorry about this abbreviated reply, but the 'server busy' crisis wiped out my long and boring answer.

Needless to say, thanks for your polite correction about the differences between Diplomatic and Royal protection duties, and yes. That last point did make me wonder too.

[Al R]

rockape 2k7,

As a PS,

My favourite speech impediment story about CC (behind his back of course) is about a navex briefing he gave us one night in BCTS. We were of course, always shagged weren't we, and wanting to nod off.

Anyway, he goes around the class confirming the basics of the exercise.

"Ok, which direction is South... SMITH!!"

And Jim duly points it out.

"Good. North..? JONES!!!"

"That way Corporal".

"Right. Good. Rhich direction then is.. Rest? BLOGGS!!" (I'll spare him)

Bloggs comes to with a sudden start.

"Sorry Corporal?"

"You rill be you ranker. Rhere's the rest?"

"The rest of the course Corporal? On the 4 tonners I think"

I'd never seen someone lifted up and thrown down a spiral staircase with such consumate ease before then.

[rockape2k7]

Al R - Good tale - all I remember is him calling everyone a 'cwow' and taking us up Sutton Bank for a 'fun run' one saturday afternoon :uhoh:

You are right about postings alot of 5A went to 51 and 58, but a batch (me included) went to QCS. A surprising number of the guys on that course are still around - mostly FSs now. :D

[Al R]

Mike,

Puhhlease. No one likes a smart arse.:=

rockape2k7,

Sutton Bank. That takes me back. I remember being confused on an FT navex one night ('89), when I realised that Land of Nod Wood had become Land of Nod stumps without anyone telling me or updating the map. Good lesson that one.

I was the last on that intake to get out, shame really. After 20+ years I was just starting to get the hang of things. And lasted the longest too I think. One went AWOL from Cyprus and was discharged after being caught by the police escaping from the MGR at Uxbridge in those powder blue denims. He took over the family business but is now a train driver making 36k for sitting on his arse. He ran someone over (a jumper) which is sad.

Another is now one of only a handful of people who train police RTA investigators to train others. I saw him on a police camera action type thing dragging a truck driver from his cab and tackling a hoodie, which was good drills. Another wrote a book (he went AWOL too) about his time in 2REP in Africa and that can be found in Smiths still. One got out to sell photocopiers, and then drove a rig out of Glasgow, one went back to University and the couple of others, who knows?

5A had Flynny and Taff Powell didn't it? What about #### (Mark maybe, I forget) Wilkins?

[Al R]

AIDU,

One of the reasons I didn't post here for a few weeks was because you followed me around the board making sarcastic comments and generally, trolling anything I posted. Now, I'm sure that that admission gives you a nice warm fuzzy glow, but I come here because I like the ambience. The place has a nice feel to it; it could even be a NAAFI.

I accept that all military bars have an irritating little sod in the corner with no mates and all they do is snipe at people who walk past, but give it a rest will you? I may not have been aircrew, I may not have had such an interesting career as you, I might not even get paid as much as you or have as much going for me as you.. but I did do my little bit in my little way. So, do me a favour mate?

Shove off and keep your silly comments for someone else in the real world.

Cheers. :ok:

[Kitbag]

Al, since I put AIDU on the ignore list life is so much more pleasant ;) Things are so much more chilled, shame its not possible to do the same with important things.

[Pontius Navigator]

Kitbag, oh it is, it is.

We had a particularly obnoxious staff officer. His emails all had the statutory disclaimer - these are my opinions alone etc. I set up a rule. Everything from him went straight into the Delete tray. :}

If it was important I would get a nice phone call from someone else.

Got back to work on Monday. Not too many emails but the machine speed was pants. If there was an attachment it could take 30-45 min to load. If there was a deadline date on the emails of Monday or earlier I simply deleted unread :}

[Al R]

Kitbag,

:ok:

Cheers, what are the benefits? Does this mean I get to miss his posts?

PS: How :mad: 'king annoying is it getting this?

<<The following errors occurred when this message was submitted:

This forum requires that you wait 120 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds.>>

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

PS: How :mad: 'king annoying is it getting this?

<<The following errors occurred when this message was submitted:

This forum requires that you wait 120 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds.>>It's probably only really annoying if you are now a civilian who should have way more better things to do with his life but is still trying in vain trying to out do Beagles daily average PPrune posting record on the Military Aviation Site...........................:rolleyes:

[Al R]

Seldom,

I might have better things to do, true. But than again, I now have a choice what to do.

And just imagine it. If I had joined up 10 or 15 years later, I too could have spent my evenings after the Mess had closed, surfing the internet for a couple of hours with all my cyber friends, and telling other people where they were going wrong.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

AlR,

"I might have better things to do, true. But than again, I now have a choice what to do."

And with all the marvelous opportunities the world has to offer once you leave the service, travel, recreation, hobbies, new career to pursue, new horizons etc etc you choose to spend most days posting in here, new average is 3.85..........:(

Said it before but will say it again when I leave in just over 4 years time I am going to be way to busy enjoying my new life to spend every day posting in here.....................and of course there is the added fact that once I have left I wont be "Military Aircrew" any more so wont really fit the "A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here." descriptor :ok:


Timing..............:E

[Al R]

Seldomfitforpurpose reiterated for our benefit: "said it before but will say it again "

Lucky us. :)

It would be remiss of me not to remind a serving member of the military that much of what the RAF does is now done by civvies? Honestly, its true. Not like in my day of course, but then again, time marches on and things improve. When I joined up lad, admin clerks on units still actually used.. 'cardex' :eek: and didn't have sophisticated computerised systems optmised for administrative efficiency and performance that you seem to benefit from today. But it seems that you can't wait to put it all behind you? Surely it hasn't been that bad? Think of all those years wasted, doing something that you cant wait to forget about . So although I seem to have committed the cardinal sin of having 3.85 posts during billable time, at least I tend not to do it in my own time.

(.. tamps down baccy in pipe and looks down affectionately at the misty eyes youngster) I look back with much happiness on my time nipper, but I don't and won't deny it ever happened. Since leaving, I've travelled the world in a slightly more salubrious manner than I was previously used to, I have taken phone calls from F1 champs (no, I don't work on the BBC switchboard) and the highlight? Going up the Hill at Goodwood. And you know something? When the Reds went over afterwards, I felt 100% proud that I had been just ever so loosely, a part of that. There, said it - 'proud'. Ughh!!

And how's this for a dull story to finish off with, one that you can smugly take the p#ss out of? I attested 25 years ago tomorrow. I took the oath of allegiance next to my oldest friend and together, we travelled to to Swinderby. We were allocated bed spaces next to each other, took our rifle Tests of Elementary Training together, finished the BFT together (he physically pulled me along) and were 3 places apart when we passed out. He failed an inspection, so instead of us all going to see ET in our first weekend leave pass, we stayed to help him prepare his kit for jankers, and stagging on. Childish and freakish to someone like you, maybe. He wanted to be commisioned, but at that point in time his sense of ambition seems to have deserted him. He became an aircraft technician and it was up to me to climb the loftier peaks. Of Catterick. Per ardua.

All the best, and at least we now know we only have 4 years to wait. :oh:

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

25 years...............get some time in sprog :p.................the saddest thing is that in 4 years when I leave having completed 38.5 years of service you WILL still be posting in here...................:(

[Al R]

:eek: Dear god.

I’ve just looked at the time you posted that! First thing this morning, you must have ripped air trying to get at the ‘puter (“Is the server back up, where is it where is he, I’ll show that young b#stard. How DARE he have a future and an enjoyable life when all I want to do is forget the past 40 years?!”).

:) Calm down old 'un - its only a messageboard. I hope that your next 40* years prove to be a little happier than the past 40 seem to have been. And given that on average, a person’s best intellectual input occurs in or around their late 20’s, I reflect that it’s a shame for all of us that there wasn’t the internet around in 1983.

* estimated.

[Maple 01]

it’s a shame for all of us that there wasn’t the internet around in 1983.

Have you never heard of ASMA old boy? :rolleyes:How quickly they forget.....

[Al R]

Cheers Mapes.

I knew there was one more I had to add to the 'ignore' list. :ok:

[rockape2k7]

I have it on good authority that CC may well be on his way back into our ranks. At an Aux Sqn at a secret Oxfordshire base....

[Yeoman_dai]

I got all excited about this, a thread which is more aroud my knowledge base, and where I can contribute... but it seems to me that the last 2 pages are nothing to do with pistols, but firstly a conversation, followed by two old blokes arguing about... nothing, as far as I can see. (Steady chaps, it's all a joke ;) )



To get back on thread, i've always thought that there are three possible ways downed aircrew can behave if faced with capture - fight it out with your 13 odd rounds, and hope to be treated well at capture (yeah right), fight it out then turn the weapon on yourself (Kipling, anyone?), or just as has been mentioned, hand the weapon over and hope that by acting nice you will avoid being killed to death.

All aircrew i've ever talked to have gone for the final option, meaning what is the point of a combat pistol? Surely, what would be better is to have a survival pistol, a large calibre revolver maybe, used to defend oneself against large predators, or get some food - the basic advantages of a combat pistol, such as larger capacity magazine etc wouldn't be needed in such a situation.

If the aircrew needed a true combat weapon, then a pistol wouldn't cut it anyway, and you'd be better off giving them the Carbine L85A2 a la AAC Apache crewmen, which i've fired and isn't a bad little weapon, if badly balanced.

Hopefully that'll rile enough people up so we can get a decent discussion going again...

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Colt AR-7 to snag dinner, large tube of laxative/gyppo guts microbes to get in among the enemy if they let you anywhere near the cookhouse.

[Pontius Navigator]

Dai, not so much as back on thread but back from the dead.

[Sook]

If the aircrew needed a true combat weapon, then a pistol wouldn't cut it anyway, and you'd be better off giving them the Carbine L85A2 a la AAC Apache crewmen, which i've fired and isn't a bad little weapon, if badly balanced.


Someone must have had the same thought at Lyneham, hence the mod to add a L85 rack to the K!

[Pontius Navigator]

One reason for arming aircrew in the cold war was to guard the jet rather than fight off 3rd SA.

Arming a Nimrod crew with 9mm pistols was hardly going to scare a Sverdlovsk cruiser or capture an SSN.

I wrote up the case to put secure lockers in to the Nimrod to hold 4xSMG with 4 mags each purely for armed guarding. Fair old weight to be added down the back end. I left shortly after so don't know if it ever happened.

[Yeoman_dai]

Makes sense I suppose, but surely aircraft protection could be done by a survival pistol! .357 Makes a bigger bang amongst other things. Plus, if I went down somewhere like Alaska or Africa i'd want something bigger than 9mil.



Edited to add this YouTube - Bear Attack Easton Bowhunting TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw&feature=fvw) for the more bored members out there, and note I put this up very tongue in cheek!