Has Cloud 9 Aviation Gone Bust???

[pilotinthemakin]

I have heard a fair few rumors that Cloud 9 Aviation have gone bust!

Some people have telled me that Leeds Flying School is closed but Yorkshire Flight Training at Sheffield City Airport is still running and vice versa.

I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about it... They were due to start ATPL's at Sheffield and Gamston.

Any info would be good!

[FO Anonymous]

They were due to start ATPL ground school!?! Man alive!

I'll be very interested to hear whether or not this is true that they've gone bust. Would be a shame if LFS & YFT shut but not a surprise sadly.

[Miles_JAN]

LFS Definately gone - They lost the contract with Leeds Uni for PPL flight training and couldn't compete against Multiflight next door.

Cloud 9...I believe is dead but could be wrong (Had lunch with 2 people that were involved with LFS before christmas and can't remember the intricate details).

[shaws360]

did i hear u say rumours? thats exactly what they are rumours cloud 9 is still up and running at lfs and yft? new website just up

[flybywire2007]

Thinking off doing the theory course that they are advertising on there website. Is there anyone who has done it previously that can shed any light on what there REALLY LIKE? Have heard lots of rumors like they have gone bust and have a really poor reputation when it comes to training but would like to hear some ACTUAL stories of people that have trained with them recently and not just rumors. Any info is greatly appreceated.

FBW07

[horsebox]

I think its fair to say they that the old Leeds Flying School had a decent reputation. It was then bought up by Cloud9, and from personal experience its reputation slipped downhill.

As far as cloud 9 go , I believe they are still in business, still offering cpl & ir at leeds at knockdown prices. I don't know how busy they are, buyer beware and be very careful of parting with money up front...

[shaws360]

call them for info

[BillieBob]

Thinking off doing the theory course that they are advertising on there website. Is there anyone who has done it previously that can shed any light on what there REALLY LIKE?Hardly likely, they haven't got approval to do the theory course yet so nobody can have done it previously.

[davey147]

I don't think they will be too successfull in selling the ATPL ground school at the price of £3,995, it seems way too much for a new service provided by a company that doesn't have the best reputation. It should be priced nearer to the £2,000 mark to get the customers in.

[pilotinthemakin]

Hardly likely, they haven't got approval to do the theory course yet so nobody can have done it previously.


How can you advertise something that doesn't exist yet? Can they still be turned down? :confused:

[RVR800]

Bust Gone
No Future

[pilotinthemakin]

No Answer on the phone!:ugh:

[pilotinthemakin]

I agree! But there maybe people who have put deposits down already cause I seen them advertise in Pilot mag's about ATPL course's starting in Jan 08!!!

Just hope nobody has done that!!!

I will be checking out other schools and visiting...

[De-fault]

I think there are a lot of rumors from friends of friends that are being posted as fact on this thread. As I have been to the LFS office since the dates on some of these posts. As far as I am aware the company is still around in some form but I'm not quite sure where. There were struggling last time I had contact and were in the process of submitting an application for ground school approval.The best bet if you want to find out what's going on is to head down.

As for the comments about Flyer magazine advertisements in Jan. This could be an old advertisement as my experience with Flyer is that they sometimes carry on your advertisements unless you specifically tell them to stop.

[shaws360]

hi , has actually anyone here got or had anything to do with cloud 9 aviation?? who can shed light on this situation because as abouve these are rumours of friends of friends of friends who have never even had any business with cloud 9 , it shocks me really as i want to spend money to fly , i live up north near leeds nowe and multiflight dont seem bothered so i was hoping to fly with cloud 9, ive spoke to people there in depth i hear they got a real good h.o.t. now so im going to give them a call and see what they can do for me ,, cheers 4 listening to the rant :) :ok:

[horsebox]

Shaws - a sly dig at Multiflight.

As you seem to be plugging the school & its website in earlier posts on this thread - why don't you follow your own advice and "give them a call"....

[shaws360]

ok you guys dont know but i might as well tell you i work there and know the people very well not a sly dig at multiflight its what customers say on the phone we'll leave that there im not bad mouthing any company , , and also yes whats with the mister? stuart yeah hes been in hiding hasnt he , really i dont give a **** nowadays , we have gone through a hell of a lot with bad mouthing from people who get sacked for embezzlement and then WE are the bad guy ! well wateva,, to eye fly , i know of him very well and the trouble he's caused us so its not accusations and horsebox your probably an EX- instructor so get on with your life and dont get involved

[PPRuNe Towers]

So what you are saying is you'd never tell a lie unless it was absolutely convenient?

[combineharvester]

that was quick, read the thread once, refreshed it and someone was banned! big brother it seems, is everywhere;)

[cowl flap]

Could be more problems with them now, with the imminent closure of their home airfield:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=310041

[Shunter]

Spoke to them on the phone just this week, all seemed ok, but who knows. Some friends and myself have all done ratings and conversions with them recently at Leeds and been very happy. I was discussing the prospect of doing my IR with them.

If they have gone down it will be a shame. They were friendly and accomodating, and quite happy to work with a bunch of guys who often asked for things which don't appear on the average school price list...

[Doormat01]

Shaun360 is the son of the owner of the company. So beware what he says about the company.
They never answer the phone. Regarding any students who fly with them? If you can find one at all you will be lucky, and the ones who have been with them have all moved on.
DO NOT part with money in advance, If there is no-one else then choose these.
And no they havn't got the ground school, its not been approved,

[No Country Members]

Lifted from http://www.cloud9aviation.net/prices-brochure

"Cloud 9 Modular do not believe in making customers pay “up front” for ALL of their training, but we do like you to pay up front for each INDIVIDUAL module. Therefore, if you intend to purchase more than one module, we would expect an initial deposit to book your place on the first module, then, just before commencing that Module you complete payment for it, and also pay the deposit on the subsequent Module to ensure a training slot is secured."

Hmm, with the old Leeds Flying School you paid lesson by lesson, at the end of that lesson, no deposit required. Can't see the advantage to the student in the system above, but I can see a lot of risk.

Do Multiflight take deposits and other money up front?

[cowl flap]

Not sure about Multiflight, but the standard advise to all students whichever school they go to is not to pay large amounts up front.

[OllyMacc]

Hi, did my ppl through LSF as part of leeds uni course. LFS lost the contract with Leeds Uni after i had finished my ppl (thankfully), this was because of the purchase of LFS by Cloud 9. They disbanded LFS to get what money they could (shame cause the instructors were excellent). Im afraid to say the rumours regarding Cloud 9 seem to be substantiated, not only is Sheffield City airport closing but the owner, last i heard, is being investigated by the CAA. Seems he lost control of a multi-engined plane out of Leeds Bradford Airport because it was trimmed for A-symmetric flight, the reason he's being investigated seems to be due to the fact he didn't have a multi-engine rating!!! There are lots of excellent schools in that region so be careful before handing over lots of money!

[pilotinthemakin]

Ok still not 100% sure on this one. I was interested in IR with them but not sure now :uhoh:

I tried to call them but no answer last Mon???????? :suspect:

[Doormat01]

BEWARE:
They have had the baliffs in trying to reclaim money for unpaid maintenance bills.

Dont part with any money upfront,

[cowl flap]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Approved%20Courses%20of%20Flight%20and%20Ground%20Training%2 0Doc%2031.pdf

Niether Cloud 9 or LFS listed on the lastest CAA list of approved FTOs.

[pilotinthemakin]

BEWARE:
They have had the baliffs in trying to reclaim money for unpaid maintenance bills.

Dont part with any money upfront,

:eek:
Ok now i'm 100% sure. Think i will try somewhere else... Thanks for that...:ok:

[DOM1]

Bloody hell! Can it get much worse for this guy! :eek:

I trained with LFS as part of my degree just before Cloud 9 stepped into the frame. I've never heard a good word said about them or the owner.

Deary me.

[shatstabba]

yeah they have approvals at LFS , looks ages since caa site was updated,,

[Pace152]

Looks like I had a close call there!!

I rang them in about December time to see if I could do my CPL with them, I got through to the boss man one time then whenever I tried to ring him again he was always 'in a meeting' he did however get in contact with me by starting to text me details. Whenever I tried to ring him I'd get no answer but then abit later some more texts.

Strangely enough I thought that was just plain weird and a seriously odd way to run a business.

I've learned the hard way that in this industry if something doesn't seem quite right then follow your instincts and stay well away.

[horsebox]

I believe G-BOOE their Twin was moved away from Leeds last weekend. It looked like it was taking a bit of effort to start, probably because it hasn't moved in months. A couple of their other aircraft are at Sturgate, last reported with props removed .... draw your own conclusions..

[Doormat01]

Cloud 9 is one too keep away from,
If you can get through on phone your lucky. They have no instuctors, last two left unpaid, all bar two planes have been disabled at diffrent airfields ie Sturgate due to unpaid bills.
The other two at sheffield I would check ALL documents, insurance, logs, engine logs airworthiness etc..:(

[Miles_JAN]

Interestingly no input from Shaws360...Don't know about anyone else but I got a snottygram PM after my post...

[horsebox]

Shaws360 got banished.

Looking at the unpleasant PM I got earlier, "shatstabba" has taken up the gauntlet..

[Miles_JAN]

A quick plod around G-INFO and my logbook shows that some of the C9 aircraft have CofA's expiring in the next few months...Writing sounds like it's on the wall really. No base, no serviceable aircraft...

[Pace152]

Shatstabba has been busy with his PM's.

[BillieBob]

According to Standards Document 31, Version 82, published on 5 February 2008 (11 days ago), neither Leeds Flying School nor Cloud 9 Aviation hold any approvals for JAA training. Let's face it guys, Cloud 9 is dead, deceased, it is no more, it has gone to meet its maker...etc, etc, etc.

[PPRuNeUser0173]

So that leaves just the one approved CPL/IR training establishement at Leeds then!!

[pilotinthemakin]

According to Standards Document 31, Version 82, published on 5 February 2008 (11 days ago), neither Leeds Flying School nor Cloud 9 Aviation hold any approvals for JAA training.

What so, they aren't even approved to do any Flight Training including PPL, night rating etc!! F:mad:K!!! I did have a look at that and couldn't see when it was updated...

Let's hope this gets resolved soon...

I'm not sure how it all works but how would a flying school with this many problems not be investigated by the CAA?

I did recieve a pm along time ago that was claiming that the company or the owner had a law suit against them but this could be speculation.

[BillieBob]

What so, they aren't even approved to do any Flight Training including PPL, night rating etc!! PPL training does not require approval.
...how would a flying school with this many problems not be investigated by the CAA?Possibly it has been investigated by the CAA and the approval has been revoked in consequence.

[shatstabba]

ill tell you why no caa investigations , because what is there to investigate?? and yes they have approvals at leeds,get facts right, i think there should be a wooden spoon award for a few people on here

[I-LBF]

Arr Shatstabba you spoke, so nice to see you working on your people skills :D

So which memeber of Cloud9 are you?? Shaun, Tom, Emily

I see that Shaws360 has been succeeded.

I think there should be an award for the most obvious employee for someone.

Back to the thread :} Been watching this thread since it started as i looked into C9 for my training, instead went to MF. Last two weeks ive been flying i havent seen any C9 aircraft in leeds (apart from the GA7 that managed to leave). So with it being 2 months until EGSY closes down not much happening in Leeds at the moment.

No phones answered, no emails replyed to, as other posters have experienced.

Wondered even if they were still going as theres no movement at EGNM, no activity at EGSY.

Maybe Shatstabba can tell some truth instead of shatstabbing at everyone on pprune, whats happening???

[cowl flap]

Best bet, contact the CAA directly to check the current status of approvals as the list on their website can sometimes be out of date. Although this appears to have been updated fairly recently.

[I-LBF]

They'll update it if theres ever a change of status, the CAA aren't lazy, if anything they are perfectionists. If a FTO loses or gains approvals - they'll update it asap

[pilotinthemakin]

thats good..

[cowl flap]

CAA list of approved FTO's has been updated again as of 29th Feb 08 with no mention of Leeds Flying School of Cloud 9, so doesn't look like they have any current approvals. Sheffield must be almost closed now too. A look on G-INFO also shows most of the fleet have an expired C of A with a "No Flight" declaration.

[I-LBF]

Oh well, looks like they are dead (as a company). Looks as though they have nowhere to go for help. Wonder if they are still flying a/c without CoA anymore?? Thats if they can afford fuel, landing fees???

Love to hear some insider news so we can lay this thread to bed??

[KarlwithaK]

I am advised the Head Of Training, resigned at Leeds, no HOT no FTO. So they cant do any training for CPL or ATPL ground school. Cloud 9 aircraft on the Sheffield apron have baliffs notices on them seizing them for unpaid bills. Both offices at Sheffield have been emptied, late one night apparently. Three Cloud 9 aircraft at Sturgate have had their props removed to prevent them being flown out because of unpaid engineering bills. I will leave it to your imagination as to whether Cloud 9 is still a viable entity. Try ringing their number now. Regards Karl.

[cowl flap]

So, looks like they have finally finished. Has anyone done any training there recently?

[I-LBF]

Demise of a good company, due to the poor capabilities of another so called 'company'

shame to see LFS go down the drain! Not such a shame with cloud9 in other words

[pilotinthemakin]

I found this subject very interesting and decided to have a look into it a bit more and to find out what has really happend.

Now, from what I have found from many people I have talked too is that the owner is a 'fantasist', 'a liar' and 'a cheat'. (Comes from more than one source) If you happen to fly to ANYWHERE in the north of England at any point then just ask anyone at the airfield you land at what Cloud 9 was/ is like!!! You will be surprised at what you hear.:eek:

A good friend of mine was based at Sheffield City Airport which sadly is closing soon. He tells me they got a bad reputation at Sandtoft, Gamston and Sheffield City.

I didn't know about Leeds Flying School but it seems to be a shame that this has happend to once a great school.

I thought i'd pass on what info I have to lighten this thread. Let's hope they have gone under to prevent anyone losing money. I did read on another forum that one guy had money in the company ready to do his Commercial Flight training!!!

Are there any students from Cloud 9 still out there??

[cloud9slayer]

Having a friend who is taking this company to court for a a second unpaid website, i can vouch that Mr Wilkinson (i believe Sean) is in fact a bankrupt from the Leeds area, who formerly was director of Cloud9 Recruitment based in Leeds:

The company i understand to be absolute con merchants, and i have reason to believe that the last poster is completely correct in calling him an absolute fantasist, a cheat and a liar....and no stranger to the court system in the Yorkshire region, i wonder why!!

Ironically i hear he also has a website named: www.injustice.biz ...Brilliant!


DO NOT GO NEAR A MR SEAN MICHAEL WILKINSON OR ANY VARIATION OF CLOUD9 IN ANY WAY IF YOU VALUE YOUR TIME, MONEY AND SANITY....BE FULLY WARNED AND REMEMBER THAT NAME!

"CLOUD NINE: Insolvency Service Serves Seven-year Ban on Director
----------------------------------------------------------------
A director of two recruitment agency businesses that failed with
total debts estimated at around GBP270,000 has given an
Undertaking not to hold directorships or take any part in
company management for seven years.

The Undertaking by Shaun Michael Wilkinson of Bentley Square,
Oulton, Leeds, was given in respect of his conduct as a director
of Cloud Nine Industrial Recruitment Limited and Cloud Nine
Charters Limited, which both carried out business from premises
at Waverley House, 14 Woodhouse Square, Leeds, LS31 1AQ.

Acceptance of the Undertaking on December 7, 2004 prevents Shaun
Michael Wilkinson from being a director of a company or, in any
way, whether directly or indirectly, being concerned in or
taking part in the promotion, formation or management of a
company for the above period. Industrial was placed into
voluntary liquidation on July 30, 2001 with estimated debts of
GBP195,837 owed to its creditors. Charters was placed into
voluntary liquidation on August 14, 2002 with estimated debts of
GBP74,933 owed to its creditors.

The Insolvency Service, on behalf of the Secretary of State for
Trade & Industry, has responsibility (under Section (6) of the
Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986) for the
investigation of the conduct of directors of failed companies
and for the disqualification of those who are considered to be
unfit to be involved in the management of companies in the
future."

Matters of unfit conduct, not disputed by Shaun Michael
Wilkinson solely for the purpose of the undertaking, were that
he:

(a) Caused Industrial to trade in breach of its statutory
obligations to both the Inland Revenue and HM Customs and
Excise;

(b) Caused Charters to fail to deal with its VAT and PAYE/NIC
obligations and to trade from November 1, 2001 in respect of
VAT and at the very latest from February 19, 2002 in respect
of PAYE/NIC, to the detriment and at the risk of HM Customs
and Excise and of the Inland Revenue;

(c) Failed, as required by the administrative receiver, to lodge
a sworn statement of affairs for Charters as at August 14,
2002 or to submit a completed director's questionnaire,
thereby hampering the administrative receivers in the
exercise of their statutory duties; and

(d) Caused Charters to continue substantially the same business
as that of Industrial, which went into liquidation on July
30, 2001, without providing any additional capital and
consequently without reasonable grounds to expect that
Charters could succeed where Industrial failed.

CONTACT: THE INSOLVENCY SERVICE
21 Bloomsbury Street
London, WC1B 3QW
Web site: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk (http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/)

Disqualification Unit
Phone: 020 7291 6807
020 7291 6832 (Vetting)
E-mail: [email protected]

Criminal Allegations Team
Phone: 020 7291 6841
E-mail: [email protected]

[cowl flap]

Doesn't sound good. Does anyone know what happened to the aircraft that were impounded at Sheffield now that it has closed? Seems to have gone quiet from Shaws360 etc

[cloud9slayer]

This one from "truth" 24th April 08:

------------------------------------------

You have received a new Private Message from truth

Subject: read

plese find message on pprune :) if you can emphasise on the liar cheat manipulator then please do ???

------------------------------------------

He has such a way with words, here is a follow up dated 25th April, annoyed, perhaps a bit i think.

------------------------------------------

You have received a new Private Message from "truth"

Subject: oi

come on message me back , i would like a chat with u................... u ****stirring mutha fukka

------------------------------------------

I would love a chat to "truth" and teach him how to speak english properly.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Posters on this thread should make sure they understand the laws of libel.

Time and again decade after decade I tell people to go to schools near to where they live who have been around a long time and who enjoy a good reputation. Given how easy it is to find schools with a good reputation by posting on this forum I'm constantly amazed by how many people go to cheapest school with no reputation.

Many people seem to put less research into their flying school than they do their television set.

WWW

[I-LBF]

You'll find that cloud9 didn't really publicise its take over of Leeds Flying School. Where the owner of cloud9 was already a disqualified director so the company was doomed from the start.
LFS had a very good reputation, so much so that multiflight were trying to drive them away with expensive fees for storing the aircraft at leeds.

As cloud9 never changed the name, or made it open they they owned the company, people were getting very good recommendations, not knowing the company was under different, and rather idiotic hands of a man who can even run a company, with more than one attempt!!

[birdman69]

The latest news is that Mr W. and Shatstabba allegedly arrived at Sheffield with a couple of heavies, filled up G-LFSK and promptly departed runway 28 hotly pusued down the runway by the Police and court order waving baliffs. Then with the ultimate cheek flew back did a low pass and wagged his wings. Not sure if he was followed on radar but does anyone know the whereabouts of this aircraft? Pretty desperate measures for a "successful" business man? No doubt he will try and re invent himself somewhere else and con more people out of their hard earned cash. Featured on Look North as "Dispute of ownership".... "Not Arf" as the late Alan Freeman would say.

[I-LBF]

Would be interesting to see if a flight plan was filed, or if any comms was made to any ATSU. Not long before some unsuspecting plane spotter snaps another picture and we know where it is.

Mr W must be gaining money from somewhere, to be able to fly out, as i can't seem to believe that G-LFSK was pursued down RWY28 like that, he must of pulled a fast one and paid off the bailiffs and legged it.

Somebody must of seen it come into land, or heard it en-route.

[cowl flap]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=327786

Still one aircraft at Sheffield apparently.

[Shunter]

Blimey, you lot are crap detectives. The spotter community was well on top of this and google soon coughed up the facts. It flew to Bagby, along with a couple of other C9 aircraft.

[I-LBF]

Apologies Shunter, we don't spend our lifes sitting on fences, we have jobs to do.

[No Country Members]

Well well well. Haven't bothered checking my PM's and didn't notice I had any until now. This from Feb 14th this year:

[/URL][URL="http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=224508"]shatstabba (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=224508)

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: house
Age: 32
Posts: 2


hi mate
your obviously a ******* brain dead you really must be ! :mad: off

(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=224508)
No idea who this twonk is, or what he's on about! Must have offended him in a former life.

[cowl flap]

There was a new message on the thread that seems to have disappeared. Was suprised to see anything as had assumed C9 had long since vanished, although the website is still going and so does it seem the talk about Burn International.

[OldManJoe]

Looks like Mr Wilkinson is readying to start up again at Teesside.
FlyTeesside is Mr Wilkinson's next venture. Wonder how many get mugged this time!!!

[OldManJoe]

Oops. Not having much luck!!

Durham Tees Valley Airport: Ex-special forces serviceman in emergency landing drama - Gazette Live (http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/durham-tees-valley-airport-ex-special-5430928)

Ex SAS.... you're having a laugh!! Ex con more like it :)

[cowl flap]

Oops. Not having much luck!!

Durham Tees Valley Airport: Ex-special forces serviceman in emergency landing drama - Gazette Live

Ex SAS.... you're having a laugh!! Ex con more like it


Ha ha, amazing he still persuades people to give him money

[peter1234]

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/532163-teesside-flight-training.html#post8270610

[LFS]

And so it goes on.......