WSO - WSOp

[NDW]

evening all

merry christmas, and i hope you all had a good day.

My question: Im hoping soon to join the R.A.F as a Wizzo, but i have heard they are a dying breed, but i still want to aim high, so when Nav's finally stop, will i be able to transfer to a WSOp?

many thanks for your time

NDW

[Pontius Navigator]

No .

[SirToppamHat]

NDW

I don't think PN got what he wanted for Xmas.;)

My understanding is as follows:

WSO = Weapons Systems Officer; ie commissioned aircrew.
WSOp = Weapons Systems Operator; ie non-commissioned aircrew(NCA).

The actual Q you ask implies that you would be trained as a Nav, which requires you go through the commissioning process at Cranwell. It would subsequently be difficult (though it is not unheard of) to re-muster as NCA, and then become a WSOp. I doubt very much you would want to do this having qualified as a Nav.

However, I suspect the Q you meant to ask was whether you could be re-trained in another specialisation once Navs were no longer required, and I believe the answer is yes. You might be somewhat limited in choice to where they wanted to send you, and you may find specific routes blocked.
I suppose the other thing to bear in mind, though, is that whatever they tell you now, the rules may well have changed by the time Navs are no longer required.

STH

[Pontius Navigator]

STH, oh I did, which was why my answer was short :)

The No to the original question still stands.

However having qualified as a WSO navigator in the next couple of years a nav could expect aircrew employment for the next 15 years or more. True there would be increasing competition for jobs but equally staff jobs woud open up.

There is the question of loss of flying pay but you never know how that will work out - I am not up to speed on that now.

[SirToppamHat]

Aah, I apologise PN.:)

Within the last 2 years, there have been a couple of groups of navs come through Fighter Controller training. They undertook an abridged course (WC only) with distinctly variable degrees of success. The stated aim was to get them straight to the E-3D, where they are employed as FCs, but I believe they continue to where N brevets (and I would guess they serve under their original terms of service). The flow dried up shortly after the extension in service of the F3 was announced.

I also know of one individual who arrived at the School of Fighter Control as a Fg Off, and gave controller trg a good attempt but didn't make it. Their preferred option for disposal was NCO Aircrew. I understand this happened, but I don't know what the mechanics were of transition (this person had to complete the full NCA course). They had been pursuaded to go down the commissioned route by the CIO/OASC despite originally applying for NCA.

STH

[NDW]

thank you PN and STH for your replys

[camelspyyder]

I may well be pre-empting a question the recruiters will ask here but:

Why don't you want to be a pilot?

CS (AEOp as it happens)

[NDW]

thanks guys

the reason i would love to be a pilot, but sadly can't is because i am shortfighted in my right eye only by a few notches, so i am still aiming high and aiming for WSO

thanks

[Ivan Rogov]

Hi NDW, all the advice so far seems quite reasonable, espescially why not pilot. If you can apply for it do, let OASC do the testing and selection.
Your profile has you as 15, if correct then you will not be joining for a couple of years, 2010 earliest?
As you have mentioned the WSO trade will be reducing, this may make it difficult to extend your initial length of service. Direct entrant WSOp join for 12 years initially and then usually get signed on for further service, it takes 22 years to get a full pension. Don't forget that the RAF may change the initial length of service it offers to suit it's future manning requirements.
FWIW I would apply for Pilot (If allowed), WSO, WSOp in that order. I don't know any WSO who have retrained as WSOp after starting thier training, however I'm not saying it doesn't happen, if it does I think it would be the exception rater than the rule.

[Sven Sixtoo]

The front left seat of the green helicopter fleet is mostly occupied by people with a single wing brevet. Have I missed something or are all newcomers in that field not WSOs? And given our need for helicopter crews, is that not a secure sub-specialisation?

[Door Slider]

The front left seat of the green helicopter fleet is mostly occupied by people with a single wing brevet. Have I missed something or are all newcomers in that field not WSOs? And given our need for helicopter crews, is that not a secure sub-specialisation?


Not really true anymore. Not that many Navs (Apart from flight commanders!!)left on rotary anymore and the last have gone through Shawbury. Rotary will be dual pilot up front.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sven,

When they created one brevet - WSO - but WSO/WSOp and put most non-commissioned rearcrew into a generic WSOp pot they really screwed up a system that had worked for years.

If it said AG on the tin it was not expected that he could do anything else except fire the guns.

[Tiger_mate]

.....and the last have gone through Shawbury

Over 4 years ago, and there is no longer a formal Rotary Nav Course or even a military QHNI at DHFS to teach one if there was.

[minigundiplomat]

Used to say N for Nav on the brevet, but most couldnt find a barn door if they were nailed to it!