Gutersloh, Mid 70s [Archive]

GPMG

21st Dec 2007, 08:22

Really enjoyed my weeks visit to Gutersloh as an Air Cadet in 89. The Harrier squadrons, the explosives demo with the 200 mtrs of det cord, the rock apes, a dodgy amusement park etc. The Bombing range was one of the best, with a couple of Jags and a few Harriers doing their stuff on an old bus. Then came the ultimate, a brace of A-10's came in and worked over the bus a few times, when we were allowed out onto the range, we were gobsmacked at what was left i.e swiss fromage.

The Naafi that was over the road by the new sports gym, and a great Pizza van nearby. Then you have those crazy, funny little WW2 german officers and the fake falling beam made for Goering.

Was it a great base to work/live at or was it just rose coloured glasses worn by a snotty little space-cadet?

benzonar

21st Dec 2007, 10:21

I lived at Gutersloh from 88 to 93 as a scaley brat, loved every minute of it.

I worked on the Swo's gang in the summer of 89 and had such a laugh, eventually got caught driving the gliding club's beetles in one of our many attempts at skiving. There was always plenty to do in and around Gut, it was a shame when they handed it over to the pongos.

spanners123

21st Dec 2007, 11:20

I'm feeling old, I was posted to Gutersloh in 89!

sled dog

21st Dec 2007, 11:56

I left Gutersloh in `69...( :E )

Tiger_mate

21st Dec 2007, 16:28

79-82..ATC..lived in Blankenhagen
87-91..230...lived in Avenwedde

If I entered a time machine, I would not change a second of it.

Green Flash

21st Dec 2007, 18:09

86' to 89', Blankenhagen (Blue Square then Spiekergarten). Tiger Mate is right. Twas the best 3 years me and Mrs Flash had. :ok:

piran

21st Dec 2007, 19:42

I served at Gutersloh from Jan 1986 to Dec 1989. It was a great unit with excellent people. I even remember Santa arriving by 230 Sqn Puma at the Childrens Party! I was in Harrier Plans and I also did some logs support for the SH exercises with 18 Sqn and 230 Sqn. People worked hard but we did have such a great standard of living with the skiing in the winter, duty free allowances and really worthwhile jobs. The station had a great feeling of comradeship. I look back now and am sad to see such great stations handed over with the loss of the true aviation spirit.

4mastacker

21st Dec 2007, 20:04

ISTR that it was 26 Sqn RAF Regiment that arrived at Gutersloh in the early 70's with their Bofors guns - their numberplate may have changed after I left. At the time, the shiny Lightnings had two squadrons of glossy Hunters as companions and the stackers had their own full-size train set - Gutersloh was definitely a fun place to be. :ok:

ex_rigger

21st Dec 2007, 20:11

Yep did two tours at Gut. 67/70 on 92sqdn then 78/81 on VASF.
Lived in Gut town, Hamm, then in a farmhouse off the Blankenhagen road on first tour. A few of you out there will remember the shortage of housing late 60`s.
Second tour good old Speikergarten.
Anyone remember the sub-aqua club in the late 70`s. That cellar saw a few good times. Brilliant bunch of lads and lasses.
As a family we had a great time. :D

mpb277

21st Dec 2007, 20:22

26 Sqn RAF Regt were at Gutersloh from 1970 until they exchanged Sqn numbers with 58 Sqn at Laarbruch in 1976 when they re-equipped with Rapier, a role they will finally relinquish with Sqn disbandment on March 31st 2008.

63 Sqn (currently Queens Colour Sqn) were later based at Gutersloh and took part in the Falklands conflict.

threeputt

21st Dec 2007, 21:20

Dad was a post war Air Trafficker, having been a wartime Catalina pilot. He was posted to Gut in '53. One thing I remember was that as a Fg Off he was entitled to a four bedroomed, three store house with a live-in cleaner, a nanny and a gardener/handyman. Apparently he also had some form of booze allowance. Happy day's or what?

P:ok:

sparkie

21st Dec 2007, 21:24

Crikey I was at Gutersloh 1963 - 1965 as a Wireless Op with the Helicopter Control Squadron (HCS) we worked alongside 230 and then 18 Sqn. I even got married at RAF Gutersoh in 1965,( to the Sally Ann Captains daughter) in the PMUB church block, which eventually became accommodation for the Army Air Corps.

Only been back once since, in 1995 whilst I was serving at Rheindahlen, by then it was full of Army vehicles and was called Princess Royal Barracks! :mad:

jez_s

21st Dec 2007, 22:19

1990-1993 Worked in MTSS.....went there as a boy came back as a man:ok:

Green Flash

21st Dec 2007, 22:26

Er, so far, I think we can say that Gutersloh, RAF GUTERSLOH, was Probably The Best Base In The World.:ok:

Romeo Oscar Golf

22nd Dec 2007, 08:54

You can lob in the other RAFG bases with that accolade. A great place to be in the 70's. Flying over the (boring) N German Plain with a million others looking for low level action.I still remember climbing to our cruise height of 250ft and the indomitable Chapple saying " What a brilliant day (vis was better than 5nms) where are you you barstewards, come and try me!!":E

soddim

22nd Dec 2007, 10:40

Not a lot of bases in the 60s could boast 5xSquadron standards - 2,4.18,19 and 92. Felt sorry for the 92 guys who let off the day end of a day night flare one dining-in night. Very expensive to clean those standards!

Great place -good beer, good company and excellent flying.

Anybody remember the chap who wrote in the mess suggestions book after almost every happy hour "I suggest draught beer be made available in the upstairs bar"?

newt

22nd Dec 2007, 13:01

Fun fun fun!! LLSP over the Mohne and cleared to bounce anything that we saw!! Back to base, fill it up and do it all again!! Sometimes 4 times in a day and still be in the bar before 19 Sqn!!

THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!!

Akrotiri bad boy

22nd Dec 2007, 16:50

I was at Gut '87 to '90, lived out at Senne in the only high rise block of flats in the area. Had a nice little earner going in the evenings as the "Eier Man", oh and I turned up at HSF on occasional days!

benzonar

22nd Dec 2007, 19:57

We lived in Topferstrasse initially, but later moved to Avenwedde.

What was the name of the pub/bar that was just down the road from the camp entrance? I think their was a speed camera just outside of it.

Also used to play footie for PCSF (later PCMF) and have a fond memory of Taz Taylor being sent off in nearly every match I was involved with.

Green Flash

22nd Dec 2007, 20:06

Flugies! 'Zum Flughaven', just past the back road to Blankenhagen and the railway spur onto the base. All Brit Mil were banned when I was there! It's a dodgy looking nightclub now with a tax free motors enterprise operating from the same place.

Tiger_mate

22nd Dec 2007, 20:26

While I was there a murder (stabbing) occured in Fluggies, the bad guy made off across the airfield to escape the gestapho and offered himself for supper to one of the RAF PlodDogs patrolling 3 sqn.

Gestapho recovered the weapon which had been stuck (stabbed) into the ground whilst crossing the airfield.

The insurance company behind fluggies was Mike Meagers (ALM) lair, or at least his wifes. Medallion man (& survivor of a Belizean stingray) not heard of in a long time.

lsh

22nd Dec 2007, 20:49

Was just at a reunion with "MGM".
We hadnt met since '84, by the way, same old Mike.
Yep, Gut was Good!!!
lsh

DHI

23rd Dec 2007, 01:14

Great place to visit! Went there in 88ish, recovered jets. back again in 89ish, beat Gorillas to go to Gatow for rafg finals!

Ouch

DHI

bombedup6

23rd Dec 2007, 13:13

I was a brat there in '61 when the Berlin Wall went up. For a few hours/days we really thought we were going to war. Truck sirens around the patch at 3am to get everyone up, Regiment running around digging fox holes in people's flower beds, my father (airframe/engines) strapping a pistol on in the bedroom..... Never did that even in WWII.

Scary stuff. What distance did they say it was from Gut to the inner-German border? 60 miles? 4.5 mins flying time for MiGs?

TheChitterneFlyer

23rd Dec 2007, 22:16

RAF Gutersloh was my last groundcrew posting before I departed to 6 FTS in 1977.

I had a trip lined up in the Lightning T4 but OC 92 'phoned me to ask if I would defer my trip so that he could take OC 4 Sqn for a ride. As things turned out it was a blessing in disguise, because a double hydraulic failure forced them to bang-out on final approach! As for me, I was on crash guard duty that very day and I ended up guarding an engine that was precariously balanced in a tree... it was a bloody cold night!

Great place Gutersloh... fond memories.

RETDPI

24th Dec 2007, 04:51

Actually it wasn't O.C. 4Sqn (Tony Chaplin), it was one of his exec's (Hoppy G. W.) They ejected over the middle of the airfield following the main leg extension failure, watched by just about all of us .(Gets you off any subsequent BOI)

4mastacker

24th Dec 2007, 13:53

.(Gets you off any subsequent BOI)

That explains why every man and his dog was watching 92 Sqn jet do a one-legged landing in the early 70's. Superb skills by the gentleman in the hot seat at the time. :D

Riskman

24th Dec 2007, 15:47

Even after 2 tours at Bruggen and 1 at Laarbruch spanning the years 76-99, the best tour of all was Gutersloh 81-84. To echo a well known musical, here are a few of my favourite things:

Zeitung 47 (the exploits of SAC Gruntfuttock in particular)
The fair in Hovelhof during the admin break on ex-Handy Forge/Hill Foil/etc
The cellar bars and the Mally
Taking visiting family round Herman the German and the Adlerwarte
Having a gluhwein in the Marktplatz downtown in the run-up to Christmas
Giving directions to somewhere in town by saying "Go to the centre of the universe and turn left..etc"
Dickie Johns after I got admonished (going rate £200 and a severe dig) for being trashed and found in a police land rover

Happy, happy days. Even my wife agrees!

Best wishes for Christmas to all.

X767

24th Dec 2007, 16:01

Many happy memories of life at this outstanding base. Served on IV Sqn with a fine bunch of pilots under Eric Smith, and Tony Hopkins. The highlights were winning Royal Flush, the many happy hours in the keller bar, and finishing up as no 4 in the middle of 92 Sqn's diamond nine in my T7, when one of their Lightnings went tech( I had been giving the SMO a famil flight, and he got a lot more than he had bargained for !

Hummingfrog

24th Dec 2007, 16:51

The joys of being a batchelor at Gutersloh!! 76-79 on 18 Sqn.

Highlights of OPLL at 50ft agl avoiding the fast jets who seemed to be everywhere.

Taking a Lightning pilot on a famil and demonstrating a hover - asking him if he wanted a go and taking the autostab out while giving control - oh how we laughed as he explored most of the grass area between the runway and pan!! he then said the immortal words "Its not as easy as it looks is it" :E

Missed my chance of a return trip as the T bird was abandoned after a Hydraulic failure.

Gutersloh KOS and the teachers' parties;)

Happy memories

HF

matkat

26th Dec 2007, 09:40

Laarbruch 78-81 XV Squadron.
Gutersloh 82-83 (short toured due fitters course) PCSF both great times never knew how lucky we were at the time.

Stitchbitch

26th Dec 2007, 22:27

It's not too bad now, however the 'fluggies' bar shut, re-opened as 'sammies', shut and has now re-opened as 'paradise bar'....not the type of 'paradise bar' some of you may have been thinking! The pizza place near the gate has moved on, the KGB has shut and a shed load of singley blocks have spouted up. There's no longer a dry ski slope, the swimming pool doesn't get used and the air trooping terminal (1987 vintage?) is a post office...but, hell, it's still Germany :ok:

Have a good new year, I'll sink a few 'wobblys' for you all :E

1.3VStall

27th Dec 2007, 11:01

4mastacker,

It wasn't a one-legged landing. The torque link on the port (I think) mainleg had sheared. The leg extended fully and locked down, but the wheel was free to rotate around the vertical axis.

There was much considered debate about whether the leg would fail on landing and whether the pilot should eject. In the event the considered wisdom was that he should land, which he did successfully.

The pilot was Norm Barker and the aircraft returned to flying after a Cat 3 repair.

And yes, Gut was a wonderful place to be in the 70s - the original work hard play hard ethic - happy days!:)

Krystal n chips

27th Dec 2007, 15:52

Whilst I was never based at Gut, I served there by default as it where ( approx 21 months of the standard singly 30months tour c/o 431MU ) and very enjoyable and profitable it was too.

My thanks to all those who used the 431 "King Edward" distribution service for ehancing my salary at the time....the Canberra guys from the UK being amongst the most regular and well organised customers as I recall :ok:

92 didn't have much luck with u/c legs did they......spent about 10months repairing "P" after the left leg sheared on landing, (the aileron went for a can of worms due to an "oops!" moment as well ) ....reason for the accident as I understand it was a spurious fire warning shortly after T/O and a rapid return to Gut after which the leg duly sheared.

Our boss at the time once asked....he was serious as well....as to why he had left Bruggen after us and arrived at Gut before us....not being a regular commuter he was blissfully unware of his troops contribution to the local economy at Recklinghausen restplaz...

Distinctly

27th Dec 2007, 15:56

Here's an Air Trafficker who was at Gutersloh from '88 until the end (as we knew it) in '93. Lived in Blankers (Spiekergarten then Dresdner Strasse) and fondly remember cycling home extremely unsteadily down Nottebrocksweg after Happy Hour. Moved to Avenwedde (Kastanienweg) where getting home was more of a problem but didn't seem to spoil the enjoyment of Happy Hours or Beer Calls in the Block 3 Bar. It was definitely a Top Tour for all sorts of reasons (the Gutersloh Christmas Market springs to mind at this time of year)but I'm surprised that we've almost filled two pages on here and no one has yet mentioned Wobbly. The town of Warstein certainly had a lot of headaches to answer for!

droschke7

27th Dec 2007, 22:46

I spent over 2 years on VASF as a sooty (engine Mechanic) at wonderfull RAF Gut, I was there from 74 till 77 on VASF was then sent to Brawdy and then Kinloss, but within 6months was back in Guetersloh as a Civi. the RAF regiment was 63Sqdn, 18Sqdn Wessex choppers were there too, and 2 Squadrons of the best Aircraft the RAF ever had or ever will have, Lightnings but then I was posted to Guetersloh from 5 sqdn and My father was on 11 sqdn same base. I seem to remember that there was also a group of 21 signals on RAF G and a small contingient of Bundeswehr Radar people. Fluegies is a place I sort of remember well, was never sober then, but in later years I was the only Brit cab driver in Gutersloh so I was sober then and remember it. After living in Guetersloh for over 21 years I came back to Scotland. Only thing I didn't like about Germany was the Divorce laws, nuff said.

droschke7

27th Dec 2007, 22:57

it was called Fluegies or "Zum Flughafen" was latterly full of Pongo's

droschke7

27th Dec 2007, 23:02

I was in VASF and had to guard that crash site too, luckily I was one of the few that could speak german so I had to run about on my motorbike telling the Germans that it was a restricted area. even got petrol coupons for doing it. That was the crash where the Camp CO and the CO of a visiting Belgian Squadron were flying a T5 isn't it? I was on the VASF pan watching them take off and thought oh oh something just fell off the aircraft, only then did I realise that it was 2 Martin Bakers saving lives

bonajet

28th Dec 2007, 07:45

A nostalgic thread...
Anyone else watching the Lightning pairs departure to UK as the squadrons left? With the wire down the pan and the reheat failing to light? Lightning sinking below the tower?
The guy from public buildings and works, who connected his quarter's electricity supply to the airfield power grid.
Hermann Goering's bending beam in the Officer's Mess tower.
Draught Wobbly in the Kellar Bar - plus the flooding of the Kellar bar for naval battles. (earlier, more a Lightning pastime?)
Ad hoc ten a/c DACTs over the Dummesee.

RETDPI

28th Dec 2007, 11:11

"Hermann Goering's bending beam in the Officer's Mess tower."

Officers' Mess.

Although admittedly sometimes hard to believe, there was usually more than one of us.

Tiger_mate

28th Dec 2007, 11:36

Anyone else watching the Lightning pairs departure to UK as the squadrons left?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2143860264_dfbc7fca1b.jpg?v=0
They did'nt all go. This photo was taken in winter '79 and there are 5 Lightnings on this photo and as many more out of shot.

1.3VStall

28th Dec 2007, 12:21

Aaaah! FMk2 and FMk2As - now they were:) real aircraft!

Dominoe

28th Dec 2007, 17:21

Anyone remember the stone engaving over by 3 (F) Sqn that said something (in German) along the lines of "Here lies the bodies of 17 soldiers from Russia", who were killed there during the 2nd WW? Legend had it that the Russians didn`t know it was there or they would have been allowed to visit under the Commonwealth War Graves Commission rules - or so rumour control had it anyway. Anybody else out there throw any light on this?

RETDPI

28th Dec 2007, 18:17

The Russian war graves (behind 3 Sqn Harriers in the woods ) were indeed a feature of life at the Station, as it was used as a pretext for an annual "visit" by our friends with snow on their shoes.

Also, there was the case of the remains of an Me 109 by the main runway threshold, some bits later appearing in the Goering Zimmer

In addition, the covert removal of an American WW2 1000lb UXB very close to 4Sqn . (The RIC did have some purposes!)

The Ghosts.

The ongoing discovery of various items of WW2 "memorabilia" in the roofs of the airmans' blocks.

All about 30 years ago now.

Tiger_mate

28th Dec 2007, 18:18

They did know of its presence and on occasion the airfield closed down totally for a day to allow a formal 'visit' to take place. I have a photo of it somewhere, I shall dig it out.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2144615600_5467243bd6.jpg

Here lies 17 fallen Russian Soldiers

1942-1945

teeteringhead

28th Dec 2007, 18:30

Anyone else watching the Lightning pairs departure to UK as the squadrons left? With the wire down the pan and the reheat failing to light? Lightning sinking below the tower?
.... well if you will let the JP (Pete Stone) fly the last jet out ....

... and I thought it was Handbrake House he was "mushing towards" 'til the burners lit - it was impressive tho'....

..... was met on arrival in UK by a diverted Puma trainer to bring him back for the AOC's b%ll%cking ....

...... which took months to arrange so he had to spend all this extra time with his 6 foot blonde German girlfriend ......:E

.. got posted to the Sim as punishment - then finished up flying Harriers .. and speared in ..... at Gutersloh .......:(

Top Bloke

Tiger_mate

28th Dec 2007, 18:38

Another grave, this time above ground. One of a pair.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2143862407_6292d1d46c.jpg

benzonar

28th Dec 2007, 20:57

Was there ever any truth in the rumour of the large concrete swastika that was "hidden" under the grass of God's Acre by the camp entrance?

It apparently could be see in the summer from the air when the grass dried out a bit.

droschke7

29th Dec 2007, 16:51

I seem to remember that in either very late '76 or early '77, we had a visit from a Belgian A/F Squadron. Being on VASF we had to work with the Belgian Groundcrews on their Dasault Mirages. Rumour control had it that our C/O had been boasting to the Belgian C/O about how much better the Lightning was. Unfortunately he decided to prove the point and took the Belgian C/O up in a T5 to do so. The aircraft went hurteling down the runway with half the camp watching it. The C/O did a perfect Tactical take off. "up to speed , retract undercarriage and rotate. The aircraft shot up vertically and was almost out of sight when we noticed 2 wee black things that appeared to fall off the aircraft, at this point the nose went down and the T5 landed vertically in a field close to Fluegies. As luck had it, the 2 objects seen falling off of the kite were the ejector seats. Never did find out what the Belgian C/O thought of our aircraft.:=

goudie

29th Dec 2007, 17:01

Another grave, this time above ground. One of a pair.

Tiger Mate, that's a very sad picture.

AliasBoris

30th Dec 2007, 00:08

Not a happy place for 2 x Wing Co and 2 x Gp Capt in the 70s and early 80s.

One was suspended from Admin and dispatched back to Blighty PDQ for something he should not have been doing with PSI Funds.

Second, a pilot, was court martialled for drink driving and also went away.

Third was too volotile to command and went away less than happy, never to get a 'star'.

Fourth eventually got a 'star' but a dismal post up north, where the least effective of his rank were sent as a last resort before taking a pension.

Wwyvern

30th Dec 2007, 13:41

I spent only one night in Gutersloh, in March 1973. Our Wessex detachment had been on exercise in Norway, and, because the fuel crisis meant there was a paucity of fuel up country, had spent a lot of our detachment time in Bergen. It was a tough call, but our new Boss insisted that he stay with the field party in tents, and I had to be with the flight crews in the hotel. The imprest holder had done a good deal with the "Bristol Hotel" and, during our protracted stay, we acquired a large number of "Bristol" stickers. The younger members of the detachment reported that many young ladies in down-town Bergen had their fronts adorned with these stickers.

En route back to UK, we night-stopped in Gutersloh. Many of the Gut icons were "Bristolled", including the bald head of the officers' mess barman and the inside of the Goering bending beam. But, when the Lightning pilots came into the mess after night flying, they became particular targets. They all seemed so very young, and much more immature than when I had been on 1 (F) Squadron with their flight commander. Every time their flight commander was zapped, on of the JPs would delicately peel the sticker off him. The only time our stickers were left in place was when we invited him to stand up to see something special (I can't remember what) and when he sat down again on the bar stool, he sat on a sticker.

The next day we transitted back through Wildenwrath. There was a messaqe waiting for me to contact the Officers' Mess at Gutersloh. Did I have in my possession the OM Board with the gold-plated list of office-holders? Unable to find this in the short stop-over, the crews were assembled on the tarmac back at Odiham, and it transpired that by some amazing coincidence, the board had been smuggled, without our knowledge, into one of our aircraft.

Some days later, I was summoned into the Boss's office to meet the PMC of the OM at Gutersloh. He happened to be travelling in UK and was interested in retrieving his Board. Fortunately, he saw the funny side, and the Board was returned, almost certainly with a Bristol sticker on the back.

charliegolf

30th Dec 2007, 14:49

Alias

Second, a pilot, was court martialled for drink driving and also went away.

This one was brutally punished as I recall.......

........ he was posted to Hong Kong!

CG

Romeo Oscar Golf

30th Dec 2007, 16:36

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v150/roghead/16Sqn1972.jpg

Tiger Mate, that's a very sad picture.

Agreed, so here's a much happier one.:ok:

Tiger_mate

30th Dec 2007, 17:41

That was when we had a Royal Air Force
Happy days long gone
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2300/2149713844_bac8b87285.jpg?v=0
Back to reality

One for the Lightning boys:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2411/2149757098_ecc9eff061.jpg
There was at least 8 Lightning airframes still present in 1980.

...& the new kid on the block:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2382/2149809718_e758affa17.jpg
..whose driver may well now be CinC Air Cmd

BEagle

30th Dec 2007, 19:37

ROG - great to see proper aircrew in proper uniforms and proper aeroplanes....

How did it all go so wrong......:{

soddim

30th Dec 2007, 20:16

Also jolly nice to see the pilots in the front row and the navigators behind.

Awaiting incoming navigator retaliation!

AliasBoris

30th Dec 2007, 21:10

Charliegolf,

Yes, quite shocking result!.........On promotion, too! ;)

Stitchbitch

31st Dec 2007, 12:08

The memorial to the fallen Russians is still there, or was the last time I ran past it...and looks a lot more healthy than in your photo Tiger_mate. Tonight is 'blitz night' here in Gut, with every German armed with at least three packets of fireworks the evening should go with a bang..if the fog lifts.:ok:
If anyone is intrested in any 'then and now' type pics, let me know and I will try and get some (within reason).
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s9/an_ancient_soul/harrier/Harr5_3_ZD412AH_1091_wsb.jpg
whoops...
:E

Heimdall

31st Dec 2007, 16:58

Ah Gutersloh ........................ great memories of probably the best RAF station ever, as those who were fortunate enough to be posted there will readily testify and probably the station with more available cash for station ‘goodies’ than anywhere else, thanks mainly to SAFAIR.

I was lucky enough to do two tours there – as a bachelor in the late 1970s when I saw the end of the Lightnings and the arrival of the Harrier and then again as a married man with a 'fun detector' and 2 kids in the late 1980s early 1990s when the Cold War ended and the first Gulf War took place - I eventually departed not long before the station finally closed.

Here are some photos I’ve dug out from the attic which might bring back a few memories:

These shots were all taken by a local farmer whom I got to know. He used to spend hours hanging around the airfield with his camera and probably has more photos of the Gutersloh Lightning F2As than anyone else:

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Lightning over the Emms.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/lightning over the emms 2.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_1.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_2.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_3.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_4.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_5.jpg

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh lightnings_6.jpg

Pete Stone on Q - he must have been one of the few blokes who could fly a Lightning but couldn't drive a car! I watched his farewell flypast from the balcony of the Tower and regret not having my camera. After the events of that day he returned to Gutersloh and was confined to the Officers Mess for a couple of months. It didn't seem to bother him a bit as he spent most of the time in the Keller Bar with the lovely Claudia and the KOS for company. After a 'hat on and no coffee' meeting with a wheel at HQ RAFG he departed only to re-appear at Gutersloh flying Harriers during my second tour. Sadly I was also around when the T4 he was flying crashed near the Emms.
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Pete Stone.jpg

The superb Officers Mess with Gorings tower on the right:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh officers mess.jpg

You hadn't really arrived in the KOS until you'd used this in anger a couple of times:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh Officers honkatorium.jpg

Gorings Room:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh Officers Goerings Room_1.jpg

May the beam bend:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh Officers Goerings Room_2.jpg

The 18 Sqn corner in the main bar of the Mess with four well known SH characters from the late 1970s and onwards enjoying themselves:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Gutersloh Officers mess bar.jpg

The Keller Bar - scene of many KOS parties with the local teachers:
http://www.spyflight.co.uk/logos/Officers mess keller bar.jpg

Happy days .................. and my liver only just survives!!

Heimdall

Tiger_mate

31st Dec 2007, 17:13

These shots were all taken by a local farmer who I go to know.

Will that be the Farmer who was also a Journalist & Professional Photographer who lived at the 90` RH bend on the Blankenhagen Road. (Where road and rail split) The one that would have made James Bond look like an amateur when it came to gathering intelligence, for he had an entire room with literally thousands upon thousands of slides of every aircraft to have been at Gutersloh since WWII. I am crap at names but he could have been 'Eric', either way, he proved that 'friendly interrogation' works every time.

Heimdall

31st Dec 2007, 17:39

Tiger_mate

31st Dec 2007, 18:48

Stichbitches 'then and now' challenge:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2239/2151952229_f4cc68032a.jpg

Transporters
An RAF C130 & FAF C160

Fighters
USAF F4
FAF Mirage
RAF F4
.....a sqn of each

& out of sight, a USAF C130 that has just landed and streamed a 'brake chute', which has to epitomise taking the urine out of the fighter jocks.

Bofors guns visible beyond and left of the fighters.

BDiONU

31st Dec 2007, 19:04

This reminds me of all the hard work at the Gut, which I now look back on quite nostalgically. I was in ATC 83-86 and lived at Blankers in Brown Square, then 90 to closure living out at Ummeln.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/BDiONU/HarrierSite1.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/BDiONU/HarrierMWay.jpg

BD

BEagle

31st Dec 2007, 19:52

Tiger_mate, that photo must have been taken during a BOLD GAUNTLET?

I did one of those (exactly on the 40th anniversary of the Dams raids...:E), but by then the USAF (who took it all very seriously) had F-15s, we still had the F-4 and the Frogs still had Mirages. I think there were also a few noisy little puffer jets at Gut at the time, but no-one paid much attention to them or their pilots.....

The aim was allegedly to demonstrate our willingness to escort transport aircraft along the 'passageway' (you weren't allowed to utter the word 'corridor') in transition to war. But really it was a glorious pi$$-up!

After the C-130 captain and I had given 'BOGPO' (BOLD GAUNTLET Project Officer) a one-sided debrief about technicalities such as allowances and accommodation, things became really rather civilised....

Usually.

One night though, we went back to the OM for a sherbet or few. A tool-screecher came and joined our group; after about 5 minutes she suddenly leant forwards and put her arms around some French fighterrpeelotte who was with us. This seemed to indicate that, in the modern vernacular, she was, as they say, 'up for it'. Said Frog sucked on his cigarette, carefully put it down, had a quick gulp of beer, then disappeared down into the Keller bar with the rampant schoolie in tow....

About 10 min later, having obviously DCO'd, he came back, picked up his cigarette and beer, then continued the conversation he'd been having before he'd been 'required' elsewhere. Now that was style!

Stoney. What a chap. He was one of the drunken reprobates of 7 Hunter refresher course at Valley after his AFTS course. Along with folk like Manning and Prissick! They occasionally had 'Nasty Newc'ie' nights on the Geordie brew in the OM - even getting themselves thrown off the OM lawn for being 'improperly dressed' in 1975!

One day after one such session, (perhaps Jindabyne remembers the occasion), a GT6 Hunter came into the circuit with Stoney at the helm, having announced fuel priority. He broke into the circuit, wobbled a bit downwind, then flew a somewhat erratic circuit before overshooting. This definitely got the attention of the Duty Pilot and everyone else; fortunately his next circuit and landing were impeccable.

"WTF did you bloody overshoot?", asked the Auth.

"Errm, well, the thing is that I wasn't feeling terribly well and after the break I barfed all over the instruments downwind and couldn't read the ASI. So I had to overshoot and clean the honk off with my glove...."

"Arse!"

I next encountered Stoney at Chivenor when it re-opened. Just the same as ever, but with a gorgeous German wife who was about 7 ft tall. He was awarded the 'Stoney Weave' trophy by our course - for the most impressive instructional cock-up of the course. One day, after the cine weave level break and intial pull up, instead of rolling out at the correct moment, Stoney kept pitching and rolling through a huge half barrel roll..... Which was a bit of a bugger for us to 'range and track'.

When the QWIs did the film debrief, after pi$$ing themselves with laughter, they fined Stoney several pigs for totally cocking up the exercise. They did compliment fellow student 'Bones' Jones and I for coping with Stoney's aeros and getting some quite reasonable scores - but also pigs-ed mightily us for not noticing Stoney's cock up.

It was a very great pleasure to have known one of the last real characters of the RAF before the era of the 'grey men' who now hold sway. And truly a very sad day for all when he bought the farm.

RIP, you old rascal!

Lurking123

31st Dec 2007, 20:05

I was fortunate enough to spend a few years at Gutersloh in the late 80s - Gawd it was hard :p

Names that have stuck:

Pete Stone, Paul 'Ada' Adams, Dave Sunderland, Jim McMenemy and a good few more. From those that 'survived', Charlie McIlroy, Ash Stevenson , Pat leach (saw him in a BA uniform a couple of years back), Johnny (I only had a pint before driving to the bratty wagon, officer) Lawson, Mark Zanker (was that his Jag, sorry GR5, being lifted out of the Ems?) and of course a couple of sqn ldrs (D Walker and C Loader).

I'll dig out a few photos in the next day or so.

Tiger_mate

31st Dec 2007, 20:28

Beagle, this one was a Lancer not a Gauntlet, (circa 1980) but the protocol was the same.

If Paul Adams was known as 'Grizzly' in Belize 88 and also parked a cab in the Ems he is another example of the good dying young. As was the chap who went on a one way trip to Belize, (GR3) whose name I forget sadly.

It was a USAF/USMC suicide posting in the latter half of the seventies. Thankfully not when Maj Chas Mudie USAF was driving a T4 with me in the back.

ShyTorque

31st Dec 2007, 21:26

The 18 Sqn corner in the main bar of the Mess with four well known SH characters from the late 1970s and onwards enjoying themselves:

Al Boulden, Mike Barter and John Kennedy playing with... something of the late George McCracken's....! :)

I was at Gutersloh slightly later, October 1980 till December 1983, when 230 took over from 18.

I had looked forward to meeting with an old creamie QFI mate, Nigel Storah, recently arrived there on Harriers. Unfortunately, as I drove in through the main gate a pall of black smoke drifting over the airfield; Nige's Harrier had rolled over approaching the hover due to a puffer duct control linkage failure. He ejected but too late, the aircraft was already through 90 degrees AOB and he impacted the football pitch, still in his seat. RIP Nigel :(

I got quite used to attending scenes of tent-pegged jets over the next few years, including the tragic one of Dutch Holland's terrible Harrier accident on take-off from the field location. Also the Jaguar that went in vertically just south of the airfield, in full reheat from 10,500 feet, having departed shortly before (in all meanings of the word).

Not a good time from that respect, or from our Squadron Boss losing his command after a slight bump (!) on the married patch.

By some miracle I came back to blighty with a functioning liver and an intact marriage, having been sent off to CFS(H) as a punishment for my misdemeanours.

(I blame lsh and charlie golf :p ).

charliegolf

1st Jan 2008, 13:28

I know my place. Sah!

CG

Fabulous times, 83 to 86.

lsh

1st Jan 2008, 15:08

Git!
lsh
(BMH Renal dept!)

Springer1

1st Jan 2008, 15:40

I was stationed at Zweibrucken (RF-4) mid to late '70's and we had a squadron exchange with Gutersloh. Unfortunately we had a fatal accident while the Brits were visiting us and put a dampener on what started out to be a great exchange.

Koshmar

1st Jan 2008, 21:45

BEagle:

ROG - great to see proper aircrew in proper uniforms and proper aeroplanes....

How did it all go so wrong......:{

Oh I don't know - the mob managed to get you out of our hair...

Bliss!

:p

wellsfargo

2nd Jan 2008, 10:58

Gutersloh,what a great posting that was.I went to Gut from Leconfield with 19 sqn in 1965.There was very little married accommodation then and lots of us ended up living at Osnabruck and commuting everyday.The boss of 19 was W/C Barcelon,known locally as the pink panther.
I returned to Gut in 1974 but this time on 92sqn(a great squadron).
A previous poster mentioned the T4 that piled in on base,i flew in that jet with Kevin Mason only weeks before whilst at Deci.
I didn't know about Pete Stone,very sad.
Did PS do his Lightning flypast solo or was Boots Boothroyd with him?
Great place-Great times.
Lightnings-dont you just love them.

soddim

2nd Jan 2008, 11:58

wellsfargo, we must have been on 19 together for I flew our Hunter T7 in the move to Gutersloh from Leconfield. We wore the fleet letter '?' on the fin. Popular story has it that the SEngO asked the Boss (Wg Cdr Brian Cox) what fleet letter to paint onto it when we withdrew it from Stn Flt at Leconfield. "I don't know" was the response, so hence the question mark.

Tiger_mate

2nd Jan 2008, 12:09

Selects geek mode:

? was often used during WWII on sqns with more than 26 aircraft

hence

You will never see it used in the RAF ever again

geek mode off, I'll get my coat. An anorak of course.

teeteringhead

3rd Jan 2008, 10:40

Al Boulden, Mike Barter and John Kennedy playing with... something of the late George McCracken's....! ... looks like "Platypus Racing" to me....

.... never quite the same on a wooden bar top as it was on the marble bartop at Salalah (I sense a Boulden/McCracken connection) where the platypussies (Platypi?) could achieve warp factor lots. Until they got to the U-turn ....

Great piccies Heimdall - ISTR we used lots of Eric's in Zeitung ..... ;)

Stitchbitch

3rd Jan 2008, 21:24

Sorry Tiger_Mate, I tried to find the pan (or watershed, or what ever it's called these days) in your pic today, but it was covered in green trucks. It's always depressing to drive around a disused airfield, although the odd cab does launch it's nowhere as frenetic as it once was. Your picture is missing two things though, a massive green eyesore of a hangar (ex-18 Sqn) and a very long and expensive fence....

Love the pics of frightnings scalping the spotters at the Ems end of the runway, health and safety would have a field day with that today. :E

4mastacker

4th Jan 2008, 19:34

Would that ex-18 Sqn hangar be a great big tent thing? I remember one being located at the other end of the airfield not far from Battle Flight - I think it was called a 'Frankenstein Hangar'.

In the background of Tiger Mate's photo there appear to be a line of rail tankers. Where they are parked was, according to our civvy storeman who operated the BFI, a burial ground for Luftwaffe aircraft which were captured when the allies took control of the airfield. Our tame civvy had been an aircraft mechanic at Gutersloh during the war. His claim about the burial ground seemed to have some substance because when the REs started to excavate the ground to install a second rail spur and pipeline manifold, they started digging up quite a bit of what appeared to be aircraft panels, pipework and other metallic bits. On some of the panels, the part number stencilling and grey paint was still visible and our civvy storeman identified markings which showed they were made by Messerschmidt and Junkers. Unfortunately, all the metal that was dug up went to the scrap yard - aviation archeology didn't feature in our lives. I have often wondered what would have been revealed if the REs had dug a bit deeper as Werner claimed whole aircraft had been bulldozed into the burial site.

Tiger_mate

4th Jan 2008, 19:55

There was a 'tent hangar' at that end of the airfield used by the Gliding Club. The 18 sqn hangar was very much bricks and mortar and enormous to boot. When they first opened it there was talk of an MOD sponsored Abba concert being held in there, which did not happen (it was about 1982). These days the proposal would have died a death from the onset.

The hangar also blocked a huge area of radar cover that was not predicted and if my memory serves me, the AR1 or was it 15 had to be resited.

Mr Bertalsmann operated his Rockwell Turbo Commander D-IBAG from Gut, after all, he owned much of the Stadt, and one of the VASF Cpls who flew in it hours building, eventually left the RAF to become one of the full time pilots.

In those days, I worked in Flt Planning and did good deals with incoming UK based crews bringing in Walkers Crisps & Easy Cook Rice which were bartered for transport to the NAAFI in town, and I have a pic somewhere of a 2 seat F5 (RNLAF) having its centre line pod filled with Gordons Gin.

Winter was spent with weekends at the Willingen ski slopes which being situated right next door to Warstein(er) meant a top time was had by all. Summer saw many a singlie routing to Amsterdam, but I cannot recall what the attraction was for I am sure the Banana Bar had not been invented. One Bank Holiday weekend, a mate and I departed Gut to collect passport stamps and did 5 countries in 24 hours simple cause we could, and being stopped in Luxembourg for speeding, he got a bollicking from the Politzei because he was sat in the left seat (RH drive car) and the copper did not have a braincell to his name. I have been through several albums, but the common thread seems to be that it was a 'socialable' tour!

Green Flash

4th Jan 2008, 20:11

ShyTorque

4th Jan 2008, 20:24

Oh yes, the Top Secret "Hotel Foxtrot" exercise names.... which everyone for miles around knew actually stood for "Harrier Force".

Ours were were "Spring, Summer, Autumn and Frozen Tiger". Saw some lovely farmyards and a few 7 by 5 tents with no poles, pegs or guy ropes. :hmm:

And no fridge..... unlike the Harrier "home from home", tented city sites. :p

Tiger_mate

4th Jan 2008, 20:38

Blomberg Glding Site and its porcelain. It is amazing how the human body can be trained to become serviceable as the rotor blades stop. There is an RAFG PR Photo around somewhere showing troops boarding a Chinook with a stationary Puma parked beyond it. Location = Blomberg and now you know why!!

Puma field sites: Bridge or PLJs It didnt take long to learn.

...and a hip flask belonging to JE that helped one get to sleep in "minus you dont want to go there"
Happy Days

Green Flash

4th Jan 2008, 21:01

For us it was the delights of the FWOC. Although I did borrow the RE despatch riders Harley (yes, I know, Rotax) to visit the flying sites one Saturday afternoon. Roarting around the bondu at Konigsberg on a summer afternoon - magic!:ok:

Riskman

5th Jan 2008, 23:14

4mastack - I think the vehicles you refer to are the trucks and trailers, gennies and sundry bits of wheeled kit in the deployment yard. Our battle wagon lived there unless we were Hill Foiling, Hazel Fluting or Hard Frosting.

And Handy Forging!

And no fridge..... unlike the Harrier "home from home", tented city sites. :p

The fridge was vital to stop the wobbly freezing on Hard Frost:ok:

Great time, esp on 4 Site FRT:D

ancientsoul

25th Jan 2008, 10:06

That's the fella - Erich Westersoetebier!! In the 1970s he appeared to be the unofficial 19 Sqn photographer and when they knew he was on the Bailly Bridge over the Emms they used to 'pose' the Lightnings so he could get the right shot. He even flew in their T bird a couple of times, so he was in a very fortunate position. I think he still lives in the same farm - I'm only surprised he's never made any money out of his massive photo collection.

....and he is still collecting slides. :) maybe of interest for some of you: there is a "new" website about RAF Gutersloh with a lot of photos (also many from erich): http://www.sg-etuo.de (http://www.sg-etuo.de/) ...the site is in german only but maybe the google translation link will help you. we are always looking for input for our site (photos or stories).

BDiONU

26th Jan 2008, 10:32

Nice video link in that german site thanks :ok:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tOXke5CvxzU

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NCRCJt01lzQ&feature=related

BD

Mike Read

26th Jan 2008, 13:07

Glad to see so many happy memories of Gutersloh over the years, but the real good time was 1958 - 1961 with 14, 20, 26 and 79 Squadrons ( we called it 124 Wing ). A small group returned for a looksee in Spring 06 and were royally entertained by the pongoes.

Green Flash

26th Jan 2008, 19:39

Just had a look a the Gut. Spotters Gruppe site - boy, did that bring back the memories! Tons of excellent photo's, a real trip down memory lane.:ok:

ancientsoul

22nd Feb 2010, 13:53

Will that be the Farmer who was also a Journalist & Professional Photographer who lived at the 90` RH bend on the Blankenhagen Road. (Where road and rail split) The one that would have made James Bond look like an amateur when it came to gathering intelligence, for he had an entire room with literally thousands upon thousands of slides of every aircraft to have been at Gutersloh since WWII. I am crap at names but he could have been 'Eric', either way, he proved that 'friendly interrogation' works every time.

That's the fella - Erich Westersoetebier!! In the 1970s he appeared to be the unofficial 19 Sqn photographer and when they knew he was on the Bailly Bridge over the Emms they used to 'pose' the Lightnings so he could get the right shot. He even flew in their T bird a couple of times, so he was in a very fortunate position. I think he still lives in the same farm - I'm only surprised he's never made any money out of his massive photo collection.

I just stumbled upon this old thread. Erich still lives on that farm and he celebrated his 75th birthday two weeks ago. He is still collecting slides and he kindly lets us use many of his old pictures from Gutersloh on our website www.sg-etuo.de (http://www.sg-etuo.de).

If anybody here has something to contribute (photos, infos or anything else about RAF Gütersloh) feel free to contact us via the contact form on www.sg-etuo.de (http://www.sg-etuo.de).

lsh

22nd Feb 2010, 17:56

Ours were were "Spring, Summer, Autumn and Frozen Tiger". Saw some lovely farmyards and a few 7 by 5 tents with no poles, pegs or guy ropes.

Hey, SHYTORQUE! Yours is smaller than mine!!

(I was issued with a 7 by 9).

Maybe yours "shrunk in the wash"?!
lsh
:E

ShyTorque

22nd Feb 2010, 20:56

lsh

23rd Feb 2010, 01:12

Well it was mine so I washed it as much as I wanted.

And if you've only got one guyrope and three pegs it's difficult to know how big the tent was supposed to be....

(At least I was never forced to share a tent with Eric the farting nav... )

But it was you that shouted at him:

"I dont know what you are wearing Steve, but it needs ironing"

when he was standing stark boll*ck naked in our barn.
God! What a sight!

lsh
:E

ARINC

23rd Feb 2010, 01:51

Anyone remember Jim Davidsons Concert in 18 Sqn's Hanger...I seem to remember 3 Sqn's Boss taking him up for a Jolly the next day too.

Chinooks doing wheelies down the peri track and fodding us on the tie down pan....:ugh:

matkat

23rd Feb 2010, 04:28

PCSF from 82-83 (early repat for fitters course) lived in Westfallenweg.

30AB

23rd Feb 2010, 04:35

All directions started with "Turn left at the BP lights" if my memory serves me well.
Foggy 230 89 - 92

philrigger

23rd Feb 2010, 11:34

;)

I have only just come across this thread.

After 3 years as a corporal on 230 Squadron at Odiham I went out to Gutersloh in December 1980 as a newly promoted sergeant rigger. One month before I went on my final (10th) trip to Belize. After 8 months at Gut I was posted to the station and on to Harriers. I must have known Shy Torque and Tiger Mate from Odiham/Gutersloh. Terrific posting. I lived out in Park Strasse, down town Gut, and then in Harswinkel.

Going back to the original post; 735 Radar Bombing Unit was at Gut when I was there 80-83. My mate, the late Flt Sgt George Moses, was on 735 as a Chf Tech.

Phil

MACH2NUMBER

23rd Feb 2010, 15:05

Just seen this thread. I remember well 19 Sqn in the days of the Pink Panther. We were fined by the bachelor club if we went to bed on a Friday night. Op initiation was a yard of ice cold Carlsberg Hof in Goerings room followed by the inevitable barf down the clock face. Lightnings ruled the skies over Germany (no F15/16s then). Wonderful Days.

Tankertrashnav

23rd Feb 2010, 16:38

A popular weekend trip on tankers back in the 70's was out from Marham Friday morning, RAFG towline with Lightnings then land Gutersloh. Very boozy weekend in the various locations already mentioned (thanks for the pics of Goering's room btw) then another RAFG towline on Monday and recover Marham. Great fun, and the guys on 19 and 92 were very entertaining hosts.

A couple of things about the RAFG towline - we had to switch the H2S radar to full scan as we got in range of the East German frontier as in theory the reds got twitchy if we sector scanned into the East. Always thought it was a load of nonsense myself, but what did I know? The other thing was that unlike most towlines, the RAFG was entirely over land. Sod's law then that one of our aircraft chose this trip to shed a hose, which came scything down into the suburbs of Bremen. Some of the older residents must have suddenly had thought they'd stepped back 30 years, but fortunately no-one was hurt and only a few garden fences were demolished.

1.3VStall

23rd Feb 2010, 16:51

TTN,

Somewhere in my archives I have a photo of the very first Mk 2 Victor to come out for the weekend to Gut - complete with crew with obligatory cold "charlies" in hand!

Tankertrashnav

23rd Feb 2010, 16:58

I remember them- first of very many over the weekend! Cheers

TTN

RetiredSHRigger

23rd Feb 2010, 19:12

Had a ball on 18, finally got out there after being rudely interrupted by our south american cousins. would not have missed it for the world (even the old wessex guys insisting it wasn't like this on the old 18) :zzz: although most of it was a blur!!

teeteringhead

24th Feb 2010, 11:19

We were fined by the bachelor club if we went to bed on a Friday night. ... shouldn't that be: if we went to our own bed on a Friday night.......:E

ShyTorque

24th Feb 2010, 20:15

But it was you that shouted at him:
"I dont know what you are wearing Steve, but it needs ironing"
when he was standing stark boll*ck naked in our barn.
God! What a sight!
lsh

Yes, it was.

Were you in the C Flt barn where a certain beefer (GC) appeared to be terrified of rats after one was spotted running across the straw? We spent much of the night doing "rat squeaking" shifts, while others threw things and swore at imaginary rats, just for his benefit.

How I miss the banter! :ok:

P.S. Bark once for yes, twice for no.

Q-SKI

25th Feb 2010, 07:58

It was'nt just GC who was phobic about rats in the barn, I remember sweaters retiring to a raised platform and covering himself in straw. With everyone asleep, we were suddenly woken by his screams as he realised he was the C Flt Pied Piper and the platform was infested with the little blighters! I did'nt laugh......honest.

scroggs

25th Feb 2010, 18:41

From ancientsoul's site:

http://www.sg-etuo.de/bilder/23Januar76_CrownCopyrig.jpg

My old man and some floozy. Good times!

Mrs-rodge-bless-her

6th Apr 2010, 00:58

Previously mentioned in a post... Kevin Mason Lightning driver who banged out on finals...

Where is he now or anyone have a contact email for him?

Im an ex student of his, would love to catch up.

Ta,

Dengue_Dude

6th Apr 2010, 17:06

Several things spring to mind. On the Harrier changeover from Lightning (I think) the staish had dictated that people stopped taking the piss (more to come).

Quite soon after that, little stickers arrived and adorned where the pee hits the urinal - they said "Come back Lightnings, all is forgiven" (or close). Hilarious, apparently the derision was affecting the sensitive young mens' morale.

My other memory is the schnellie outside the camp gate (when we stayed on base) for currywurst and pomme frites. Smashing.

We often stayed in the O' Mess annexe, right down the end where Harriers used to practise VL - thanks guys :)

handysnaks

6th Apr 2010, 19:20

Tankertrashnav, 19 and 92, are you sure you were at the right airbase?:p

GGR

6th Apr 2010, 19:25

Slightly off beam does any one remember SAC Milligan from ATC circa 1972/3 ? Welsh wizard with a snooker que!! (surely warrants a reply) Mods boot me in to WATN if req.

GGR

Finningley Boy

6th Apr 2010, 23:27

I haven't read through all the posts regarding this, but the unit in question was 735 Signals Unit. I was on 721 Signals Unit at Spadeadam 1983-1985.:)

FB

jetslut

22nd Apr 2010, 20:50

Along with Paul Adams (he was only 25, I didn't realise) go also SUN, and John Carver (USN), I had to face John's wife upon return from LOS...not pleasant.
I attended Dave's funeral.

Nick Gilchrist's get-out at Ascaffenburg remains in the memory as he landed, true to IV(AC) tradition, on the bier tent. I met Nick a few years ago in the CX City bar HKG.

When I start to remember all of the names and faces that were HF in the eighties,
Pete Harris, M3 (Murdo), Syd Morris, Pete Collins, Martin Cliffe, Terry Parker, Steve Hawkins, Andy Suddards, Chris Worne... et al (apologies to those names I have forgotten, but who's faces will always be remembered by me) I did both IV(AC) and 3(F) tours (GR3) -it was a wonderful time in my life.

best regards,
Jetslut

Motleycallsign

23rd Apr 2010, 18:27

Handysnaks, I concur with TTN, 19 & 92 sqns were certainly at Guetersloh when I was on 18,( the real rotary 18 with Wessex); they moved down to the Clutch area when the Harriers arrived circa '75. I seem to remember one of the sqns having an Airfix model of a Harrier set on a perch in a cage.

Steve Deeble

15th May 2010, 08:17

I spent two great tours at BFPO47 77/79 and 80/84 and made life long friends. Lost my left ear and a good mate in a prang outside the camp gates on my second stint. Many nights spent drinking wobbly down the rugby club or in town at the piano bar. Anyone out there know the whereabouts of Andy Queen? Strange bloke, always had a toothbrush in his flying jacket and a long Dr Who style scarf around his neck.

BDiONU

20th May 2010, 19:04

There's an ATC site for the Gut Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=45706248707)

I did 83-86 in Blue square Blankers and 90 until closure in Ummeln, Bielefeld. Still 4 RAF controllers in the tower out there for the odd brown job chopper, a very big let down from the days of the busiest ATC unit in the RAF.
The pictures reminded me of 1 Sqn going 'on deployment', to Gutersloh while we were in the field (snigger).

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v838/34/39/1315706488/n1315706488_185317_2542.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v838/34/39/1315706488/n1315706488_185320_9609.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v371/34/39/1315706488/n1315706488_172657_1840.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v371/34/39/1315706488/n1315706488_172653_799.jpg

BD

ShyTorque

20th May 2010, 19:35

Nice to see those photos but doesn't the word RESTRICTED mean... well..you know, restricted? :confused:

Rigga

20th May 2010, 20:42

Yes - I can really see why you'd want to keep those obsolete aircraft and equipment a little bit hush...I think these are well past their keep-it-a-secret-by date.

BDiONU

20th May 2010, 20:44

Nice to see those photos but doesn't the word RESTRICTED mean... well..you know, restricted? :confused:
The lowest category of secrecy from many summers ago (before the wall came down and we saved a fortune on HF deployments, active edge and Reforger exercises), I'm not particularly concerned about the whitecaps surrounding my house and banging me up under the official secrets act :) They've been on facebook a couple of years now and I've not had my collar felt.

BD

ShyTorque

20th May 2010, 23:07

BD, thanks for the lesson on the meaning of military security classifications, although unusually I was required to sign the OSA declaration five times, three times more than most ex-military folk.

Crown copywright lasts 50 years, even for unclassified docs, btw.

charliegolf

21st May 2010, 07:45

From Shy:

I was required to sign the OSA declaration five times

Handwriting problems, or crayon too thick?:ok:

CG

sitigeltfel

21st May 2010, 09:31

IIRC "Restricted" meant it had already been printed in the Times, Telegraph, Guardian et al. Those were the days before the interweb though.

ShyTorque

21st May 2010, 18:59

Handwriting problems, or crayon too thick?

Bloody school teachers! :rolleyes:

;)

lsh

22nd May 2010, 19:36

Bloody school teachers!
Me thinks they were called "Tool-screechers" at Gut!
lsh:
:E

lloydwickham

21st Sep 2010, 11:57

Not sure If I have posted this before but here's a few pictures of the Old Place!!!

Spotting Group Gütersloh - Flugplatz von 1937 bis heute | EDUOFotos (http://www.sg-etuo.de/index.php?n=Main.EDUOFotos)

X767

21st Sep 2010, 22:01

Thanks Lloyd,

Brought back many happy memories.
I really liked the Lightning v Lightning shot, although my time was flying Hunters with No 4 Sqn.

NutLoose

22nd Sep 2010, 05:54

Bit of a thread drift, but Google Earth are running 1945 views so you can see what your bases used to look like!

Google Earth during the Second World War: Amazing aerial images taken by the daring Allies which revealed Hitler's weapons | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1230025/Google-Earth-Second-World-War-Amazing-aerial-images-taken-daring-Allies-revealed-Hitlers-weapons.html)

Finningley Boy

22nd Sep 2010, 06:14

Whilst not doubting pr00nes memory for one moment, the name 631 RSU (Radar Signals Unit) seems to ring a faint bell. In the 80's they lived on the ridge to the north of Gutersloh at Borgholzhausen (in an old Dutch Nike site). I went to visit them once or twice and sat in the radar vans as they played with German Tornado's over the Ruhr.

It was definitely 735 RBSU in 1983. I was posted to 721 RBSU that year, at Spadeadam.

FB

fetcheveryone

22nd Sep 2010, 15:34

To throw a different light on things - I went to 'camp' a Gutersloh with the CCF in 1978 for 2 weeks and was billeted the floor above the Garrison which led to a few frightening moments and almost called for our CO to sleep in the dorm with us a protection!

We flew into Wildenrath and 'enjoyed' the boneshaker journey to camp for seemed like hours. Visited 'the wall', one of the dam buster dams, the Rapier section facinated me and others, and was kept very busy (and tired) for the entire time and still have all the momentos (badges etc) in a tin.

On the Sunday we went to matins at the base church where I was christened - my father was stationed there from '63 to '65 and I was born in the RAF hospital at Wildenrath.

Cornerstone958

22nd Sep 2010, 16:04

I was born at RAF Hospital Wildenrath

Don't think so unless it was in the Medical Centre more likely to have been RAF Hospital Wegberg
CS

Oneye

22nd Sep 2010, 18:28

Was there any real need for the jibe (the RIC had its purposes) old man. I doubt you know half of what the RIC was involved in, in our efforts to preserve your sorrry backside. Suffice to say, I was privileged to be involved with both 4Sqn Gutersloh and 1(F)Sqn at Wittering training programmes, both operationally and in the training environment. Those young pilots are/were the very best of the best, which they proved time and time again. I did not strangle nuts, neither did I w*** spanners, but the information that I and my contemporaries imparted to those young people was appreciated by them, which they collectively acknowledged on more than one occasion.
Stick to your port and lemon old man and try to control your bile. I do know what banter is and can distinguish between that and dribbling bile.
Apologies to other members reading, but it could not go unanswered.........yes, I bit, big time.
Apart from our friend with the problem, I am enjoying this thread, many thanks.
OH, just to clarify, because I doubt RETDPI even knows what the acronym means, the decode is thus: Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre.

Suffolk_Punch

22nd Sep 2010, 19:16

I have only just stumbled over this thread (like so many other contributors!) and have found it really fascinating, although I have only read about 40 of the posts so far!

I was posted to Gütersloh around Easter 1972 (from Coltishall) and was one of the shift Sergeants in Ground Radio Servicing Flight. It was an interesting tour but was the last full one I did before commissioning as a Fighter Controller. It was as an FC that I eventually used to visit the Station when I was working out of Brockzetel in the early 80s. In my view, the best time was when the Lightnings were there and held QRA(BF); the pilots were always very appreciative of having radars and comms working on the ground that helped them achieve another successful landing!! :ok:

fetcheveryone

23rd Sep 2010, 09:12

CS - having checked I stand corrected. Even my passport says it!

Cornerstone958

23rd Sep 2010, 14:00

FEO
No problem happy to help had 2 happy tours there
CS:O

Haraka

23rd Sep 2010, 14:20

I wonder if this guy's PPPrune title might just possibly be an acronym for
RETireD Photo Interpreter? :hmm:

Obviously Not - According to our resident Gutersloh IV(AC) Sqn RIC authority "Oneye" ;)

Acccording to "Oneye" REDTPI in his ignorance of RICs could not have appreciated that the term " RIC" into the mid 70's in fact stood for " Reconnaissance Interpretation Centre".
The "Intelligence" part was adopted a bit later.
.
.
.
.
.
But evidently not totally.:ok:

Oneye

23rd Sep 2010, 15:23

Haha, good try old man, if you want to go further, take it to PM, rather than bore the 'professionals' on this thread. 'Interpretation?' really! something missing in my 26 years experience I suspect. Intelligence is in the 'eye' of the beholder old man. Never claimed to be an 'authority' on anything, I know what I know, that's all. I will respond to PM, nothing else.

ancientsoul

17th Oct 2010, 10:58

Pete Stone on Q - he must have been one of the few blokes who could fly a Lightning but couldn't drive a car! I watched his farewell flypast from the balcony of the Tower and regret not having my camera.

We recently released a photo of the mentioned flypast on our site sg-etuo.de (http://sg-etuo.de):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1461253/etuo/XN774F_low_Westersoete_tb.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1461253/etuo/XN774F_low_Westersoete.jpg)
© Erich Westersötebier

langleybaston

23rd Jan 2011, 11:54

I was a forecaster at EDUO from 1967 to 1970, working from the ground floor of Ops/ Control Tower, living on top patch, Zeppelinstrasse. Used to walk to work using the key provided to Mess members to use the wicket gate short cut.
We served 2 and 4, [Hunters], the choppers, and 19 [Lightning]. 92 arrived mid tour. The forecasters held dormant RAFVR Commissions in case the balloon went up.
Just a tad busy for Met. in those days, and my favourite customers were 19. The boss was [if I remember correctly] Wing Commander Laurie Jones, the flight commanders were Bob Barcilon and Pete Naz. It was only after my last mass briefing that the Staish said that my forecasts for Lightning contrails had been 5000 ft out for 3 years, and he would be glad not to have to do the take-away in future.
Mind you, he had a sense of humour, as did OC Ops. On a dull no-fly day they interrupted a game of Met. office cricket; CO came round door first and held a low catch from my square cut. OC Ops congratulated him ......
The Hunter squadrons produced dozens of shots of WWII tanks still littering NW Europe, and it became known that I was a tank recognition guru. I spent a fair bit of time sitting next to the GLOs.

Our neighbours on top patch were a good bunch: Brian Smith [19], Pete? Glover, who rose to one-star, Sandy Wilson who rose a great deal further [and who was my boss at JHQ in the 1990s] and dozens and dozens of kids, frantically go-karting [pedal] round the block or playing fortyfortyallin!
One night after a dining-in I entered the house through the coal hole, on the grounds that the black would not show. Forgot the shirt.
My middle daughter fell through the ice of the pond near the mess which turned out to be my fault, MS25C and a wind blowing.

Was anyone there the night Czecho was invaded by the Russians? I was on duty at the time ....... not nice.
Or the enormous scramble by both Lightning squadrons around a sunny mid-day ..... I think we put over 30 in the air. A bit noisy, but there you go. Squadron rivalry and all that.

Ah! Guetersloh, we had to be prised away.

soddim

23rd Jan 2011, 14:45

Yes, I was. We (19 Sqn) were hosting a party for our Danish F104 guests when they suddenly stopped drinking following a telephone call for their boss. We tried hard to find out why and they soon announced that they would have to return to Denmark. It transpired that they had been told about the Russian air transport movements before RAFG Ops were aware that anything unusual was happening.

Eventually our int boys got the message and we had to stop drinking too. Can't remember the hangover flying the next day but there were so many of them in those happy days.

langleybaston

23rd Jan 2011, 16:37

I can only tell it as I remember it ........ almost unbelievable.

It was a dark quiet shift, no flying, perhaps a weekend. Heard a chopper land, in burst a US pilot "Haven't you heard?" "What?" "The Russkies have rolled into CZ!" It wasn't 1st April, he wasn't obviously drunk, so I took a deep breath, cut out the middlemen AND the RAFP Alsatian and phoned the Staish at home, who asked to speak to the pilot and then pressed the hooter metaphorically with his free hand.

Paul Revere II [qv] departed, and was soon followed by all the squadron reps to collect the [always prepared] Met for rather different missions than the daily routines.

Were we really dependant on a Yank getting the message in the air and landing at first opportunity? Why was ATC at least not in the loop? Am I imagining all this ....... I certainly told the events to my wife, who recalls the narrative vividly.

A lot of famillies checked their grab bags and gold sovereigns that night, for sure. I wonder if that VR Flt Lt uniform would have fitted ...... glad I didn't have to try.

And then there was the French Mirage squadron visit and the graffiti ..... a tale for another day.

X767

23rd Jan 2011, 20:39

Hi langley baston - we must know each other. I was on 4 sqn from 1967 until we disbanded in 1970. The Boss was Eric Smith, who was followed by Tony Hopkins. Other squadron members I can just about remember were Ian Weston, Taff Wallis,Bob Dymond, Ken Petrie,Ken Jones, Pete Gover ( not Glover) Bill Sheppard, Al Cleaver, Sam Goddard,Keith Holland, Tim Thorn, Bill Langworthy, Pad Williams, Al Mathie, Derek Whitman, Pat Kiggell. OC Ops was Dave Rhodes as I remember, followed by Dickie Dickinson. The staish was Dave Ross followed by Keith Williamson. That's just about exhausted my memory banks, but Gutersloh will always remain my favourite station. We worked hard and played hard and there are too many memories to set down here, but Nigel Walpoles' book on the Hunter FR10, Best of Breed helped to jog a few grey cells.

langleybaston

24th Jan 2011, 09:32

I remember Ian Weston and Ken Petrie ..... as for Tim Thorn, is that the chap who was SASO RAFG and then became Commandant Regiment? He was my line manager at JHQ c. 1990 and what a guy! Had a horrendous bike accident [not in the Air Staff cavalry charge across the fields at 1630 on Fridays for Happy Hour] but when he was, shall we say, in a relaxed state somewhat later. Looked like he had been hit like a brick privy travelling at speed. Charismatic springs to mind.

X767

24th Jan 2011, 10:59

Yes, that's the guy - we used to call him Tiger Tim !

I remember chasing him on his Op ride. As Flt Cdr Ops I had designed a sortie that tested the recce pilot to the limit, and involved some high speed low level dashes to achieve a TOT on a specific target. Tim did a really good job, but one one of those windy,marked low level turbulence,days that I am sure you remember, he managed to "banana" his 230 gal drop tanks, in his supreme effort to achieve his TOT. One operational pilot, but two U/S drop tanks !

Wander00

24th Jan 2011, 11:30

TT - SUO on A Sqn at Cranwell - unforgettable!

langleybaston

24th Jan 2011, 15:18

The day Gutersloh was "tagged".
There were fairly frequent squadron exchanges in those days. This anecdote concerns a French Mirage mob. I was present at a mess or squadron do held in their honour, and there was sufficient misbehaviour in public [I can recall white thighs and black sussies flying around ..... and not only the pilots] for me to beat it early, suspecting no good would come of it. Nor did it.

Next day was fly-off, and an outbreak of squadron graffiti had hit the station in the small hours. The squadron badge [official or not] was a rampant "meat and 2 veg", with wings added, and they had brought a stencil or two and some white spray paint. As some of these flying phalluses were a touch public, there was some frantic activity to erase them. The SWO and his team never found the one on the Met. Office shutters, because we firstly folded them in out of sight, and later removed and stored the shutter. When I did a tour as senior forecaster at JHQ c. 1980 the office still had a shutter tucked away.

At least one young married lady [?] had had a sufficiently good time the previous evening to stand by the Met enclosure waving goodbye to our gallant allies as they taxied out.

langleybaston

27th Jan 2011, 09:00

The day of the glazed ice.

Almost uniquelyfor semi-modern RAF bases EDUO had a significant glazed ice/ rain ice risk. This because of its well-inland continental location. The phenomenon only happens when a warm front is raining into a constantly-refreshed very cold and dry low-level flow ...... the rain becomes super-cooled at a rate faster than it warms the air, so super-cooled water reaches the surface. And freezes. Inevitably I was on duty for a bad such day. Although it was predicted, it looked on contact with the ground like wet ground, so I went out the front of Ops / Met and stood on what I took to be the horizontal stone wall flanking the rather grand steps, to have a good look. Only it was not horizontal. Coefficient of friction about zilch, and the scenery started passing from right to left at a rate of knots. Of course the wall ended up about 6 ft in the air above the road, so it was like a Disney cartoon. I managed to land under some sort of control as SATCO parked beside me. He was laughing his head off until he realized his car door was frozen solid. On winding down the window, he was left with a solid sheet of glazed ice about 1/4 inch thick.

Later in day I had to take a daughter to the Med Centre. The car made it, but only because the kerbs each side kept us on a course if you average out the tacks.

I never saw the like again, and don't want to.

ShyTorque

27th Jan 2011, 10:50

Wasn't that the same occasion that an 18 Sqn Wessex got totally iced up while doing underslung load training over at Junker's Farm, on the south side of the airfield? The sudden thick ice jacket it received made it too heavy to make it back to dispersal. The (scary looking) photo of it featured on the cover of the incident report.

I was posted there in 1980 and to my surprise, the first Met. officer I saw was none other than Bert Ford, off the telly.

1.3VStall

27th Jan 2011, 11:13

Does anyone else have fond memories of the Attic Folk Club at Gut in the mid 70s - in particular the McCalmans, who gave their last ever concert on 10th Dec?

Green Flash

27th Jan 2011, 11:15

LB is right, you got some of the worst freezing rain at Gut I have ever seen. I remember an occaision in the late 80's when it FZRA'd for 12 hours solid. And everything was solid. I saw a push bike that had been leant against a Landrover for a few hours, then the 'rover driven way leaving the bike welded to the road, upright!

soddim

27th Jan 2011, 11:23

Remember it well - the journey home through Gutersloh town in a six volt Beetle - head out of the window to find the road and an iced SD hat as a result.

Also remember some of the rapid weather deteriorations - not funny in a small ventral Lightning (not too good with a bigger ventral either).

'What sort of approach would you like?'

'A bloody good one please!'

Logistics Loader

27th Jan 2011, 12:34

Defo 735 RSU in late 80's
Flt Lt Stu Andrews was OC then and a family friend !!

rgds
ex Mover

teeteringhead

27th Jan 2011, 14:05

The sudden thick ice jacket it received made it too heavy to make it back to dispersal. .... not too heavy - it was (apparently) degradation of the aerofoil section of the blade (NACA 0012 IIRC) which drastically reduced lift.

The mighty Wessex could (usually) just overtorque if overweight, but in this case I understand there was severe NR droop (which is very unusual in the Wessex .... unlike some other types....;)), without excessive collective input and with both engines turning ..... which sounds kind of scary .....:eek:

But as a good friend of mine once said: "the older you get, the more clearly remember things that never happened......."

1.3VStall

27th Jan 2011, 14:54

Soddim,

I, too, had a 6v Beetle, which got me to and from many tool screechers' parties. Navigating back in the dark with two headlights that, combined, only threw out one candlepower was always interesting!

langleybaston

27th Jan 2011, 14:55

Yes, Bert Ford did a tour as boss man ....... wish I had had him there in my time. He probably wouldn't have slung out the cupboards adorned with war time Luftwaffe graffiti, swastikas etc without having the best bits taken off and hung on the walls. But then I was always more interested in history than meteorology !
I've NEVER seen rain ice worth talking about anywhere in the world [at near sea-level] except in the EDUO area.

ShyTorque

27th Jan 2011, 15:26

Teeters,

I bow to your greater knowledge of those old hovering machines that sometimes flew. I was better aquainted with the flying machines that sometimes hovered..... and yes, sometimes drooped the rotors to catch out the unwary or the ham-fisted.

BigApromotions

27th Jan 2011, 21:12

1.3VStall -I had some great times in the Attic Folk Club! I'd arrived at Gut in Dec 74, as a Sootie JT posted to 92 Sqn. I did half my tour as a singlie and half with Mrs BigApromotions in tow. It's hard to decide which bar I enjoyed most but the folk culb is up there! I've still got a copy of a vinyl record I bought, by the band Cocky called "12 inches of cockey"! (makes me grin even now). We would finish off the beer soaked evening with a curry in the Chicken Inn (a late night eatery in the airmans mess!).

bonajet

27th Jan 2011, 23:35

Yes I remember the rain ice on one occasion in the late 70s. A new meaning for the phrase armoured car.
It is probably a completely apocryphal story but does anyone remember the two locals driving around the ring road at Gut, with their heads out of the driver's windows, in thick fog, who hit heads?

ps I thought Pete Stone's Lightning was pulling more alpha as it passed the tower. Maybe that one is the leader of the pair?

Gerontocrat

28th Jan 2011, 09:23

Late 1970s and my regiment was based not far from Guetersloh. Then-Mrs G was due to sprog with our first, and one Godfather-desig was JENGO on 18 Sqn.
As was the custom in those days, “Hatches” were often announced by means of some witty signal. So, when the young master made his appearance, I despatched the following signal, clearly addressed to JENGO, 18 Sqn: ”Ref underslung-load tests commenced [DTG] Results produced [DTG] showed Moment About Load Equivalent of 2.2kg”
Nothing was heard back. Many weeks later, I drove over to Gut, where said JENGO was surprised to hear that I had signaled, but he had seen nothing. As we were having a coffee in his office a head popped round the door and announced, something on the lines of: “Ah, better still, BOTH of you are here. Boss wants you, hats on (in my case beret). Now. Finish your coffee, I gather none will be offered.”
Mystified, we drained our mugs, donned headgear and headed off to see Sandy Hunter.
It transpired that the signal had arrived in the commcen but, evidently, somebody had failed to note the addressee. Station Commander (Ge***e O**, IIRC) apparently took it amiss that somebody had been playing with his helicopters without informing him. Nobody else, it seems, had any idea [there’s a surprise], so a request for a full report on these ‘tests’ was punted off to HQRAFG. No idea there, either, so the matter was referred back over the channel to all those who might have had knowledge of the matter.
Eventually, somebody spotted the original addressee and the matter winged back to Gut. Hence our summons!
There was some talk about a report being sent to my CO ref incorrect use of service facilties, but I have to admit I heard no more of the matter: other pending problems might have taken my CO’s eye off this particular ball: something to do with taking a squadron of Chieftains over a bridge without seeing the “Class 10” sign!!

langleybaston

28th Jan 2011, 09:54

In my unofficial role as WW II armour guru, I was sitting next to the GLO and a few others in either 2 or 4 Sqn, going over images of unidentified tanks littering NW Europe.
A very young, and very very pretty, WRAC attachee to the GLO was expounding on the delights of free-fall parachuting.
"The greatest thrill there is!"
At which a slack handful of lecherous Hunter pilots attempted to educate her, including offers she couldn't refuse.
Never did ID the tank.

Visitation

30th Jan 2011, 06:22

Bonajet

Reference Pete Stone’s Lightning departure from Gutersloh.

With all due respect to Eric Westersoetebier, who I imagined took the photo with a long lens from his usual vantage point on the Baillie Bridge over the Emms, I agree that the aircraft in the photo is very unlikely to be the one flown by Pete Stone during his infamous departure from Gutersloh. I suspect this aircraft is the leader of the pair (Jim Wilde) who performed a more normal overshoot down the runway at about 250ft before climbing steeply away.

I was on the balcony of the Tower and I remember that Pete descended very low on finals and was virtually hidden by the trees between the Tower and the 27 threshold. He then appeared from behind the trees, banked to the right and about 100-150ft and headed down the main ASP initially about level with the balcony. His flypast took him towards the ‘waterfront’ over a line of Lightning’s and various liney’s scattered as he came barrelling towards them. He then pulled up steeply and lit the afterburners, but only one lit and he started snaking from left to right, apparently struggling to control the aircraft. When he pulled up his heading also took him towards one of the main fuel dumps and there appeared a possibility that he might end up stall and end up actually crashing into the dump. He eventually recovered and departed for the UK where he beat up Waddington, damaging parts of the Officers Mess in the process. On his return to Gutersloh he was confined to the camp, awaiting a bollocking at HQ RAFG and spent most evenings in the Keller Bar, getting plastered.

Pete Stone was a ‘character’ in every sense of the word, but I guess you could have almost predicted what might eventually happen – a sad loss, particularly as characters like Pete just can’t really exist in todays RAF.

Visitation

teeteringhead

30th Jan 2011, 19:23

Visitation ... your description matches my recollection exactly!

An inbound-to-Gut Puma trainer from the OCU was diverted to Binbrook (?) IIRC to pick up the errant Stoney and bring him back.

Didn't spend all his time in the kellerbar surely - not with that 6 ft blonde fraulein of his in tow. :E

The RAFG bollocking took a long time to be delivered, and we wondered if Stoney would stand the pace - and I still don't mean the kellerbar.:E:E

He was built like a racing snake anyway, but I'm sure he lost a lot of weight while waiting .......:E:E:E

Darwen

26th Apr 2011, 20:47

Just seen your thread, the unit was located by a few redundant Lightnings at the end of the airfield. I was based at this unit from 1982 to 1985 and lived on Leipzig Strasse, next to the Scnellie, pub and ice cream parlour, in Blankenhagen.
The unit was 735 su and had 2 bases, one at Gutersloh, which was the permanent base with a couple of cabins, a mobile ops room and an RTS2 short range radar sitting on a 30 ft tower.
The 2nd was at a German Luftwaffe site named Auenhausen, based out on the Teutenberger? range, some 60 miles away. We operated a mobile RTS2 and a couple of old Boufers gun platforms that had been modified to simulate an old Russian J Band jammer. We also used them to lock onto, both by manual and Radar, Tornado, A10, Starfighter and F111 aircraft if we locked for more than 15 seconds they were 'dead'!
In 1984, we moved from Auenhausen to Borgholzhausen permanentley, carrying out the same bomb plot and acquisition role.
I think the main site at Gutersloh closed in the late 80's, I have been out of the RAF for 16 years now and that posting was by far the best in my service. I also worked at 735 mrbssu, which was also called Tumby Bomb plot, and this was my 2nd best posting.

soddim

26th Apr 2011, 23:06

Ah! Tumby Bomb Plot - called lots of times with simulated buckets of sunshine released over UK. It's now the kennels of the intelligencia of the RAF Police - or maybe that's now PFI to civvies.

alysoncarrie

20th May 2011, 20:20

my father was stationed at gutersloh in the early 70'sand he and my mum used to attend the attic folk club whenever they could. I was not old enough to go myself but remember how much they raved about the acts that performed there and indeed remember the lp's they bought, especially the McCalmans. I grew up listening to them and still remember the lyrics to a few songs. my parents were friends with a bloke called sean mcmahon and I know he played there with his little band there a few times. I went to school with his daughters. My sister and I were both interested in music from a young age and have done some performing ourselves. We both attended trenchard school and there was a little after school music club where we learned lots of folky tunes. My father was Peter Taylor and mum is Sandra. Father died just over a year ago. He was in RAF for 22 happy years. he was an aircraft electrician who served on 19 squadron.

1.3VStall

21st May 2011, 08:11

AC,

You may be interested to know that the Macs did their final concert in Edinburgh in December (Ian is now 64 and his voice is going). There is a DVD available (look at their website), which is the farewell concert and also archive footage of the group.

I saw them live last November at the Park Gate Folk Club (Wirral) and I had a chat to Ian. He has fond memories of the Attic Folk Club in the '70s - as I do.

The last time I saw Sean McMahon was about 1983. He was the ground engineer on a VC10 I was on from Brize Norton to Akrotiri.

Green Flash

22nd May 2011, 18:22

Darwen, I was at Gut from 86 to 89 and as far as I can remember the only 735 unit was at Borgholzhausen (with admin etc support from the base). I occaisonaly went up there to change over some kit and I'm sure they were on the old C2 site to the NW of the village along the ridge, for the by then defunct Dutch Nike Hercules battery just to the east of the village. (No, I'm not confusing it with Blomberg). Remember a German Tornado trying to sneak up on us from the N just over the ridge crest but they got him!

gyrotyro

24th May 2011, 11:02

"Anyone remember the stone engaving over by 3 (F) Sqn that said something (in German) along the lines of "Here lies the bodies of 17 soldiers from Russia", who were killed there during the 2nd WW? Legend had it that the Russians didn`t know it was there or they would have been allowed to visit under the Commonwealth War Graves Commission rules - or so rumour control had it anyway. Anybody else out there throw any light on this?"

Yes, the graves were over by the QRA hangar ( Though I remember the sign saying 3 or 7 Russian soldiers!). We used to try and trap rabbits there to supplement our rations whilst we were on Battle flight, endless games of "Risk" on a huge board. Rigger 92 Sqn 67/69 Geilenkirchen and then the move to Gutersloh.

Anyone remember the Hunter from the PR Sqn 2 or 4 that had the cannons go off inside the hangar ? I do.

X767

24th May 2011, 12:15

Yes, I remember. It was a 2 FR Sqn aircraft that was on jacks in the hangar having some rectification, when due to an amazing combination of circumstances the Aden fired a round into the hangar wall. There were some very shocked airmen, I can tell you.I was the pilot on the Board of Inquiry from next door on 4 FR Sqn.

langleybaston

24th May 2011, 12:40

and I was the duty met man ..... heard the bang, saw the commotion and scuffle .........
Weather decidedly not a factor, back to the charts ......

soddim

24th May 2011, 19:02

Those were the days when the Hunter pilots all turned out to watch the solo Lightning aeros practise (Bill Wratten) so that as witnesses they could not be members of the Board of Inquiry.

ex-fast-jets

24th May 2011, 19:23

I remember arriving at Gutersloh from a particularly wet and muddy Harrier field deployment nearby - when we were based at Wildenrath.

Our field site had become unuseable, and we had to VTO from the site, land at Gut to refuel before returning to Wildenrath.

We landed and taxied in, dripping wet mud onto the pristine and FOD-free runway and taxiways. Then we got out of the cockpit and walked into the available crewrooms in our muddy flying boots.

As I recall, ATC and the resident Lightning community were unimpressed!!

Now both forces are assigned to history - but in their time..............!

Good times for most!!

lynx-effect

24th May 2011, 21:31

...and then the British Army got hold hold of it and it turned into the crappest place in the world.

Darwen

29th May 2011, 12:26

Hi Green Flash
You are right, we moved to the ex Nike site at Borgholzhousen, with all the kit we had at Auenhausen. I can't remember however, if we still operated from Gutersloh airfield when we moved, or if we had closed it down by then!

I remember the first time we went to the site, and were met at the gates by a Dutch airforce conscript wearing his helmet at an angle John Wayne would have been proud of, and what looked like a reefer hanging from his mouth. The site had been abandoned and stripped of all valuables, and he and a jnco were living there to guard the place.

I also remember that we had no running water at that time and we had to go into the village to fill up a bowser at the local fire station, used to sneak for a swim at the baths if it was warm.

I don't know if it was ever used but, I helped design a unit crest which incorporated a Tornado into the Borgholzhausen town crest.

Also, I made a mistake with Tumby, it was actually 705 MRBSSU and not 735!

Vampiredave

5th Jun 2011, 13:11

Can anyone recall a 3 Squadron Harrier team at Gutersloh ca. 1976 / 1977 called the "Green Gilberts"?

Haraka

5th Jun 2011, 20:47

Harrier Force in general was expediting the move from Wilders to Gut late 76 to early 77. Can't recall any " Green Gilberts": but then again we were fairly busy.

GiantStar

7th Oct 2011, 21:45

Hi Sparkie,
RAF Gutersloh was a great experience for any young airman. I was stationed at Gutersloh in 1965/66/67. I was an air mover and worked in the joint services air movements unit.

What caught my eye was your reference to the Sally Ann club. The club was adjacent to our place of work so we would often go there for refreshment.

I got friendly with Christine she was so nice and very pretty. I do not recall her surname. I am assuming that there is a chance you may have married her sister.

In Gutersloh I celebrated my 21st birthday, I am now 65 been married 36 years and have brought up three great kids.

I am still working and I am on Facebook Nicholas price my profile is a burger as I am in the fast food business.

I would just like to hello to Christine and hope she has Had a great life.

I hope you and your family are well

Nick

bonajet

8th Oct 2011, 06:48

Yes I remember the Green Gilberts but that's about it. Think Keith Holland led them. Probably 1977.

Finningley Boy

8th Oct 2011, 08:44

735 SU RAF Gutersloh

Darwin,

Did you you know either Paul Clayfield or George Rafferty while you were on 735?

FB:)

pannenhilfe

9th Oct 2011, 20:05

'I don't know if it was ever used but, I helped design a unit crest which incorporated a Tornado into the Borgholzhausen town crest'.

Darwen, Yes it was used and the old main gate sign was donated, along with 735 RSU photo album, to the Air Defence Museum at Neatishead. My tour was 1987 - 1991 and sadly watched the AA7mk4's depart to the scrapyard and delivered the third to RNAF Soesterberg aviation museum.

ShyTorque

9th Oct 2011, 23:52

Yes I remember the Green Gilberts but that's about it. Think Keith Holland led them. Probably 1977.

The late, tragically killed Sqn Boss? If so, I took the Station photographer to the accident site (the Harrier squadron was deployed in the field) and we flew over and around the still smouldering aftermath for the BOI photos. A sad and sobering scene.

I think his was the third Harrier accident I attended (did this for a Jaguar one, too, just south of Gutersloh). Thankfully the rest of them got out alive.

teeteringhead

11th Oct 2011, 14:59

You are right Shy - he was a top bloke.

Were not some thinly disguised similarities to his crash (ie, boss distracted with Admin triv) used in a Flight safety fillum a bit later on??

pamac51

11th Oct 2011, 20:23

Was that not a Javelin crew who had difficulty getting cash from the Accounts Flight at Akr?

That dates me somewhat.....

charliegolf

11th Oct 2011, 20:52

Was that not a Javelin crew who had difficulty getting cash from the Accounts Flight at Akr?

I think it was a Jag film. Home life, deployment pressure, maintenance and admin were all in it.

CG

Dutchly

12th Oct 2011, 19:02

Yes I remember the Green Gilberts but that's about it. Think Keith Holland led them. Probably 1977.

Hi all. Not sure if the old man led it but he was definitely in a team who displayed for the Queens Silver Jubilee at Finningley. I remember being allowed to watch the full dress rehearsal. I think he got an AFC for this. Pete Squire (future CAS) was also in the team I believe. Lots of practices from Feb '77 until the display on 29 Jul '77.

You are right Shy - he was a top bloke.

Were not some thinly disguised similarities to his crash (ie, boss distracted with Admin triv) used in a Flight safety fillum a bit later on??

I always hear he was a nice man..and funny. I wish I had been able to get to know him properly. He is still missed.

His accident was indeed a case study on the Flying Authorisers Course. I couldn't hide a small grin when JP announced we would be studying a Harrier Sqn Boss' accident during the week. I was sat next to an older Harrier Sqn Ldr who had been told he had to attend the course. After the welcome he sidled over to JP and whispered something in his ear. We never did do the case study although I would have been fine about it. I've read the accident report and it is sobering but nothing can be changed now. I'm just pleased that he was, by most accounts, a popular and witty pilot (rare for Harrier pilots, I know ;)). Cheers to all who knew him.

threeputt

12th Oct 2011, 21:47

It was supposidly a Jag flt cdr who was distracted by lots of triv, I know, I was in it. If you see it I was the bloke playing the fruit machine!

3P:ok:

BEagle

12th Oct 2011, 22:30

The Harrier accident was used as a case study on my Flying Supervisor's Course.

The original FS film involved a Javelin crew returning to the UK to fly a replacement jet out east - and the frustrations faced by its crew at various stages of the trip. A trip which would seem like paradise today.

The remake involved a Jaguar Flt Cdr. Not as good as the original Javelin version, but it still made some good points.

Akrotiri bad boy

13th Oct 2011, 10:35

Threeputt

With apologies, you made me chuckle

The make up department must have worked hard on prepping you for your role in the film as a fruit machine. What did they do, tie one arm behind your back and stand you in the corner?

Once again threeputt, I'm sorry but I've got tears rolling down my face and perhaps an overactive imagination:D

Akro

ShyTorque

13th Oct 2011, 10:41

A few weeks before Wg Cdr Holland's sad demise I recall him playing a tea chest double bass at a beer call, as part of a Harrier mates' band.

4ROCK

4th Dec 2012, 17:37

Just 'happened' on this site - fantastic that people still remember their time at the Mighty Gut as some of the best of their lives.....you couldn't recreate that heady mix of hard work, screechers, nurses and wobbly!
Fresh from Catterick I was posted to 63 and sailed south on the 'SS' QE2 and in a later life came back as the Rock on 4 Sqn - and was honoured to be part of a great group of guys - most of whom I have failed miserably to stay in touch with....sorry....!!

I lived out at Harsewinkel for a while and had a flat beneath Mr and Mrs Cliffy.....then had a place on Bottom Patch near to Mark 'Rambo' Frith and the Gottlich's....! My brother in law was the Adj on 3 Sqn so it was a big family affair ....unfortunately my happy marriage didn't survive the rigours of RAF life....but I've made up for it since with a standard NATO - wife and 3 kids!

Happy days.......

HAS59

5th Dec 2012, 06:13

I was at Wildenrath and Gutersloh with Keith Holland - a great guy his loss stunned us all.

Does anyone know the title of that Javelin FS film? I saw it too when I joined in '72 and remember how good it was.

Madbob

5th Dec 2012, 07:46

ISTR that it was called "Frustration".

A very good film I thought. Brings back memories.

MB

cuefaye

5th Dec 2012, 13:47

I was at Raynham with Keith, 66/67. I then followed on from him at the RAAF Staff College in Canberra - his was an impossibly hard act to follow. Terrific bloke, and one of many that didn't make the full term.

BOAC

5th Dec 2012, 14:10

I did have a couple of emails back and forth via PPR with Keith's son a while back.

RAF Luqa

13th Dec 2012, 22:34

I believe 19 and 92 Squadrons flew the T4 and not the T5

N2erk

15th Dec 2012, 02:19

Mad bob is correct- the Javelin movie was called "frustration". It was excellent. RAF was light years ahead of the civvies in "Human Factors" training. :O

CoffmanStarter

15th Dec 2012, 08:17

I had the pleasure and privilege of knowing Pete Stone briefly when we were both Air Cadets together. He was then the Senior Staff Cadet at 1AEF RAF Manston (the Boss then was S/L "Jonnie" Johnston) when he "assessed" my suitability to join the team ! I passed ! :E

Even then he managed to persuade his then girl friend to wash and iron his uniform shirts for him as a cadet ! He'd also scrounged a complete Flying Clothing Card's worth of kit ... much of which was superior to that issued to the AEF pilots. Straight after gaining his Flying Scholarship I believe he did a trip across the North Sea in a single engined "puddle jumper" ... Yes ... he was most certainly a character and top bloke :ok: Very sad day when I learn't of his demise in a Harrier T Bird accident in Germany :(

His passion for a good night out probably started here with mates from 617 VGS and 1AEF...

http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/kent/pics/manston_jollyfarmer.jpg

In addition to the daring do's mentioned here ... legend has it that Pete took a Lightning super sonic, at below mast height, past a Rusian Trawler Earwigger down in the Med ... which, after the event, he regarded as a legitimate enemy intercept. Must have been interesting for them :E

Best...

Coff.

thing

16th Dec 2012, 00:21

eventually got caught driving the gliding club's beetles Probably one of my cars...:)

Was at Gut late 70's on 3. Lived at Avenwedde Bahnoff in a private hiring (no quarters for newly marrieds like me) and used to bike it the 7 miles to base every day. Passed my driving test and bought an ancient Beetle, so old it had a 6 volt battery. Served me faithfully and when I left RAFG I tried to sell it. No chance. I went to the German scrappy, he didn't want it, finished up giving it to the gliding club.

Thoroughly enjoyed my time at Gut, made even more so by the wonderful German family we rented our hiring off. They took us all over Germany and we were made to feel one of their family.

noprobs

16th Dec 2012, 08:12

Pegasus Gliding Club had a constant stream of cars, almost all Beetles, passing through on the way to the scrap yard. While struggling to pass the TUV test, they still did sterling service towing gliders or pulling out cables from the winch.

One such Beetle was stretching a new cable, with the big American V8 on the winch maintaining the tension. When the V8 began to win, the Beetle driver failed to hack the high speed rearward tow, and the ensuing roll ended that car's use.

Arriving on the airfield after the set-up for glider flying had begun one day, I was a little surprised to see my 13-year old son parking one of the Beetles in line. He had been taught to drive by other gliding club members without my ever noticing.

I went one of many farewell beer calls, and at this one the departing person became quite emotional about his experience. He sadly described how, during his tour, his work had not gone as planned, his father had died, and his wife had left him. He had felt that the final straw had come when his beloved old car, a 2CV, had failed its roadworthiness test. However, he pointed to me and said that the single redeeming event in this catalogue of disasters was when I had offered to take the car for the gliding club, where he was sure it would serve a long and honourable retirement from road use. I managed to keep a straight face, and I think that he was unaware until his departure that we had already managed to wreck the gearbox and sent the car for scrap the day before the beer call. If he reads this here, surely time will deaden the blow. :(