A Gun To You Head

[bugdevheli]

Lets imagine i had a friend who was in prison. I book a charter flight to Birmingham airport. As we aproach the airport i pull a gun on the pilot and say turn off your radio and take me to xxxxxxx prison, drop down in the so and so and a passenger will be waiting. What would be your reaction. I dont have a friend in prison incidentally, but i just thought that would be a terrible situation to be put in., and the thought crossed my mind that i am not aware whether people who book flights are checked out. Bug

[paco]

So shoot me

but then, I'm perverse that way

Phil

[Ioan]

I actually googled this after it happened the last time (Belgium / France? - happened twice I think in the space of a few months). The prison service do indeed realise the possibility, so I can't imagine it would be too successful

[Whirlybird]

Damn!! I had something extremely similar in mind as a plot for a novel. Sounds like too many people have thought of it before. :( Back to the drawing board...or something.

But, seriously, what would the authorities do?

[CGWRA]

Happened with an ex northern mountain helicopters machine that was sold while it was in Chile. The jail guards only had rubber bullets and couldn't knock it down and he flew away with a bunch of guys haha.

[Ioan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_prison_escapes

2.1 Oct, 1973 - Mountjoy Gaol, Ireland
2.2 Jan, 1983 - Melbourne, Australia
2.3 May, 1986 - La Santé Prison, France
2.4 Nov, 1986 - Federal Correctional Institution at Pleasanton, USA
2.5 Dec, 1987 - Gartree Prison, Leicestershire, UK
2.6 Aug, 1989 - Colorado prison, USA
2.7 1990 - Federal Holding Facility, Miami, FL, USA
2.8 1991 - Las Cucharas prison, Puerto Rico
2.9 1992 - Prison near Lyon, France
2.10 Sept, 1997 - De Geerhorst jail, Holland
2.11 March, 1999 - Metropolitan Remand and Reception Centre,
2.12 2000 - Prison near Lyon, France
2.13 2001 - Luynnes prison in southern France
2.14 Mar, 2001 - Draugignan prison, France
2.15 May, 2001 - Fresnes prison, south of Paris, France
2.16 Jan 2002 - Parada Neto Penitentiary, Brazil
2.17 Dec, 2002 - Las Cucharas prison, Puerto Rico
2.18 2003 - Luynnes prison in southern France
2.19 July, 2005 - central France
2.20 Dec, 2005 - Aiton Prison, France
2.21 June, 2006 - Korydallos Prison, Greece
2.22 April, 2007 - Liege, Belgium
2.23 July, 15 2007 - Grasse prison south-east France
2.24 Oct 28, 2007 - Ittre, Belgium

Whirlybird, I'd say they've thought of it before :D
Most of the prisons by the look of it focus primarily on prevention; anti helicopter netting or wire over places a heli could land, etc. I too thought of it as part of a book a while back but I believe it was already in one; something tells me a Frederick Forsyth novel maybe?

[John Eacott]

The Wiki reference to Melbourne in 1983 is quite incorrect: the day I joined VicPol Air Wing, I was sworn in and issued Freddie 30 minutes after reporting to Williams St, and inside Pentridge Gaol 3 hours later to advise on where to carry out a (controlled) helicopter landing two days later :cool:

The gang who planned the break had been introduced in NSW to one of the Air Wing pilots (Dobbo), not an SAS pilot as per Wikki. Having been charged with Conspiracy, it was prudent to prove that a helicopter could be used as implied, so on a Wednesday sometime in June 1983 Dave A. flew a 206 into the exercise yard, doors off, and picked up 3 Sons Of God who were milling around looking lost. In and out in <30 seconds, case proved :p (SOG, the VicPol Special Operations Group.)

Later we advised the Prison Authorities to string marked wires over all open prison spaces, but to this day they haven't done so. We have a couple of private prisons north of Werribee, one mens, one womens. The Womens Prison actually has a helipad inside the prison walls, probably for those suffering PMT or similar ;)

[aclark79]

I think an interesting question would be what would your response be if the radio isn't turned off. Quite obviously you can't just say, "help I've got a gun to my head" if the man behind the gun has told you not to... and your worried about getting shot at the end...

In the US of course we have a squawk code and I've been advised by my local tower that any combination of that code in my normal radio call would be picked up on, ie, changing my N number, advising crossing the runway 7600 etc etc...

Not even sure what the UK equivilant to that squawk is...

[Solar]

Speechless
If I remember correctly re the Rose Dougdale failed attempt which was on Strabane police station, the bomb (milk churn) did get stuck when over the "target" but was dropped into the river Mourne about 400/500yds past the station and did not explode.
I was working in an engineering shop adjacent to the station and though it was lunchtime I was inside on a homer while most of the lads were out playing football in the yard. They told me that they had just seen a yellow helicopter trying to bomb the police station to which I replied thinking it a wind up "pull the other one, a yellow submarine I would believe but a yellow helicopter".
It was only later when I saw the news that I realised what had happened.
We were lucky on two counts that day as a few seconds earlier it could have been on the workshop and a few seconds later it would have been a housing estate on the other side of the river.

Solar

[Gordy]

I flew for Alameda County SO for a while, and all of the outdoor exercise yards at "Club Fed" as we call it, in Pleasanton, the scene of the Nov, 1986, plot is now covered with cable which prevents a helicopter from landing. This is where Officer Stacy koon, of the Rodney King beating fame, spent time, also Heidi Fleiss spent time there...

[Ascend Charlie]

One hijacking took place from Bankstown in Sydney, where the cheap-charlie hijacker only wanted to "charter" a B47 - she had earlier asked us to charter a B206 but didn't want to pay for it up front!
I was talking to the B47 pilot on the radio just as the hijacker-lady yanked his mike cord out of the socket and pointed an AK-47 (goes with a Bell 47?) at him and told him to land in the Silverwater prison. (He had actually wondered why the passenger was carrying a large shopping bag.) I wondered why he didn't finish his sentence, but he was helping a prisoner to avoid finishing his sentence.:E
The guards were gobsmacked, but still fired a couple of shots, hitting the frame. The machine flew for a while, but the pax realised the cars on the ground were going faster than the chopper, so they made him land on a sportsfield, tied him with the headset cords, and hijacked a passing car.
They were caught the following day, I think.
But what would I do? Hard to work out, but I would probably land in the prison and somehow accidentally shut the engine off and be unable to start it again, or maybe shut it down when a suitable field is in range and scream "AAAAAAARRRRGGGGHH THE F***** ENGINE IS ON FIRE! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!" or words to that effect.:sad:

[Hughesy]

Ascend C.

I remember reading about that. In the article, the pilot said he went to casually change the transponder to 7600, and she smacked his hand and said "NO TRANSPONDERS!!"
She had done her homework for sure! Crazy as.

[SASless]

There is a former Schreiner pilot and now a CHC pilot who handled a hi-jacking quite nicely while flying for Bristow in Nigeria.....he merely haulled the collective up under his arm and flew away to the Funiwa. Upon his arrival he could not understand what all the finger pointing was about until he realized there was a very much subdued hijacker clinging to the skid. It appeared a fifteen minute flight dangling from the skids 3000 feet above the ocean distracted the villian from his intended exploit.

Now one must consider the pilot's steadfast adherence to a story that begs innocence about "knowingly" taking the hijacker for a ride as being a wee tad unbelievable as he claims nose bleeds routinely restrict his altitude to between 300-500 feet while transporting paying passengers internally.

I suspect the truth is more along the lines of being unable to climb to 10,000 feet in the time it took to fly out to the Funiwa from the beach.

Ist Dis Biggenstorygemachten true mein Kapitan?

[helimutt]

So to answer your question, i'd 1/. ask if there was any money in it?
2/. make the most of it to have a bit of exciting flying for a change.
:E
ps, watch out for the nets strung across some prison compounds. I used to hate looking up at those things!:ok:

[md 600 driver]

it could not happen in the uk now as most high security prisons have restricted air space for helicopters lol

[AlanM]

We get calls all the time from Belmarsh prison asking why there is a helicopter overhead orbitting and within the EGR.

99% of the time it is Police 251.......! :)

Wonder why they took the EGR from Highdown Prison nr Banstead a few yrs back?

[Ioan]

In the US of course we have a squawk code and I've been advised by my local tower that any combination of that code in my normal radio call would be picked up on, ie, changing my N number, advising crossing the runway 7600 etc etc...


7600 has been mentioned a few times now. I thought that was loss of comms, or is it different in the US?

[eltonioni]

Apart from the small matter that you would need to bust the Restricted Area that now occupies the airspace over prisons, would it be legally be charter work requiring an AOC and CPL?

Tea without biscuits.

[Flying Bull]

Hi Ioan,

the squaks are easily to remeber - the numbers rise with the intensity of the emergency.
7500 - radio failure - bad but nothing to worry about to much, except in IMC, but there you should know your procedures anyway
7600 - hijack - more distracting than a coms-failure, isn´t it? But the bird is still flying.
7700 - Emegency, you´re ******* going down or very close to, might skid over the runwy without brakes or with skids with high speed, you´re on fire and stuff like that.
Bad news and air traffic should look on the radar either to know, where you´re going down and/or is shuffeling other traffic away, so that you get all the assisstance, i.e. direkt approach and so on, to give you the chance to handle the emergency succesfully.

So easy to remember, from a little problem to the **** 7500 to 7700 ;-)

Greetings Flying Bull

[Hidden Agenda]

I have given the matter a lot of thought and I decided a while back that in the event of any unlawful interference my immediate action will be…'fuel off'.

But then I am only flying a single engine machine!

[Ioan]

Flying Bull, cheers for that, but what's confusing me was that I learnt 7500 Hijack, 7600 comms failure and 7700 for a 'mayday'.

I just googled it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_(aviation)
7700: General Emergency[1]
7600: Lost Communications[1]
7500: Unlawful Interference (Hijack)[1]

yet the consenses on here seems to be as you say, 7600 hijack and 7500 comms failure

I learnt '75, taken alive; 76, box of tricks [ie radio playing up]; 77, going to heaven'

[CGWRA]

I remember flying near a jail in flight training where someone trampled out HELP in the fresh layer of snow in their big field haha. Me and the instructor had a good laugh at that.

[rcapiloto]

The prison escape in Chile (Dec 30, 1996) was actually performed by a pilot WILLING to do it. The pilot flying the helicopter on a chartered flight was made to land near Santiago at gunpoint and then another pilot took over to fly back to the prison yard. That prison is in an area of heavy air traffic, so the guards didn't immediately react when a low flying helicopter approached the central yard. The rescue itself was performed by suspending a homemade basket, fitted with several bulletproof vests acting as armour, and taking 4 inmates in it. The guards fired live bullets, but somehow only 3 impacts were received by the helicopter, all in non-critical areas. By the way, the helicopter was NOT a Northern Mountain Helicopters machine, it was a B-206L operated by a local company.

[Special 25]

Ioan, you are correct - There is some confusion.

7700 - Emergency - Not in dispute !!

7600 - Radio Failure

7500 - Hijack / Unlawful interference


Seem to remember the old aide memoir to be

Seven-Seven: Going to Heaven
Seven-Six: Nothing but clicks
Seven-Five: Taken alive

But don't try and recall that when you've got a gun to your head

[helimutt]

seven six, radio in a fix! how i remember it anyway,

[Helinut]

md 600 driver,
You have swallowed the official BS hook, line and sinker then! How on earth does putting a prohibited zone around a prison stop a highjacked hele from landing there.....................?
A complete piece of offical nonsense - "we must be seen to be doing something so lets restrict law-abiding pilots" :mad:
If they want to stop a hele landing in any space, wire it up. No amount of garbage regulation will do it.

And we do have one of our regular brethren on here that has been hijacked during a prison break, but he is not usually too keen to tell the tale normally

[Lightning_Boy]

Good to see pro-pilots getting the squawk numbers correct :ok::ok::ok:

Ioan.....I thought maybe it was a Welsh thing as well!

[Bravo73]

And we do have one of our regular brethren on here that has been hijacked during a prison break, but he is not usually too keen to tell the tale normally

Huh? Are you sure? :confused:

Ian seemed to be happy enough to tell us about it last year:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2936705&postcount=126


And, I think that md600 driver meant to include some sort of smiley to indicate that he had his tongue in his cheek. Unless you missed his 'lol' at the end... ;)

[Flying Lawyer]

As far as I know, there has only been one helicopter escape in the UK - exactly 20 years ago.

In December 1987, a B206 was hijacked and used to spring two prisoners from Gartree prison, Leicestershire.
Gartree was a high security prison in those days - but the authorities hadn't anticipated escape by helicopter.


http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/assets/images/100000B3gartree.jpg


Two prisoners escaped - John Kendall, serving 10 years for organising a series of high value commercial burglaries and another serving life for murder.

I represented one of Kendall's gang at the original trial and remember it trial well for a couple of reasons, one of which is that they used a very simple - almost comical - method to steal large quantities of booze and tobacco from cash & carry warehouses in night time burglaries all over the South East. They had a long run, until an underworld informant tipped off the police.

The pilot was Uncle Ian of 'Age Discrimination' fame.

[Lightning_Boy]

FL,

That must have been in the last 15 days then :D

LB :ok:

[Peter-RB]

If I was ever in that urgent situation, I would utter that hackned phrase, "Oi watch this"..... at least being the pilot you would be ready if things really went to ratsh*t:eek:

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

[DennisK]

On a lighthearted note as its Christmas and as a 'wannabee' author myself ... I can list a few books where a heli is used for a prison break. But first just to say how well I remember the actual news footage of the Gartree event.

If the tape gets re-run, note particularly how the prisoner struggles to open the right hand rear door of the B206 and assumes it is locked ... so prompty dashes under the tail boom to the opposite door. He probably came within a foot or so of the T/R.

A dear friend is the author Eric Clark who consults me on any aviation aspects for his novels. His villain used an Enstrom 480 for his prison break and asembles the M/R shortly before the flight. Eric uses the phrase ... "the 'Jesus nut' might not be tight enough ,, but it wasn;t intended to last very long anyway!

In the mid 1990s, I had the pleasure of training the lovely Juliette Binoche who was making a film as the wife of a political prisoner she wanted to spring from a Spanish jail using a heli. She simply wanted to learn enough to make her acting authentic.

Sean Connolly told me he did the same for his golfing piece in 'Goldfinger' Now he's off about nine I think.

Hats off to all this Christmas lads & safe flying in 2008.

Dennis Kenyon.

[Sven Sixtoo]

Helinut and MD600Driver
There are both procedures and systems in place at high security prisons to reduce the likelihood of a successful helicopter-borne escape. The purpose of the restricted area is to avoid spurious triggering of elements of these.
So it really isn't BS!
Sven