Training in Northern Ireland

[Nymins]

Hey everyone,

I have just started to get interested in pilot training. I have emailed a few people about it and it seems to be very interesting and something that i would like to do.

The only thing that im unsure about is the training around Northern Ireland. I can get a PPL in Newtownards for around £6400, which isn't much of a problem as i can get a semi-full time job to cover it. However, its after the PPL that is troubling. Where in Northern Ireland do you go to get CPL and ATPL training? I have read a few posts about Aldergrove Flight Training at the International Airport. Is this the main place to go for the next step after the PPL? Also, how much did it cost anyone that trained there and what where their personal experiences with the training and staff?

Any comments are welcome and i hope i've posted in the right place :)

Thanks

[EGAC_Ramper]

HIya Nymins,

I myself am from Northern Ireland Bangor to be precise. I do apologise as I cannot answer you question tonight as I'm off out on the staff chrimbo doo but will get back to you with my details of how I did things and contacts of other people. Just in short I did all my training modular and now I'm based in East Midlands flying for the Ryanair machine. So once tonights over I'll happily talk to yourself in my spare time.:ok:


Regards

[dsandson]

Hello Nymins

Glad to hear of somebody else in NI who wants to be a pilot! I'm based in Belfast and I fly out of Newtownards. Might just be in EGAC Rampers shoes in a year or two!

You seem to have done some research into the subject already, and thats always good. However, some of the info you've found is well out of date. Aldergrove Flight Training went bust just after 9/11, and were never able to train for CPL or ATPL. now only PPL/IMC/night ratings are available in NI at UFC Newtownards, WEAC at Aldergrove, and also Eglinton and Enniskillen.

To show you the bigger picture (assuming you dont already know), there's 2 ways to get to fly jets or turboprops; Modular and Integrated.

Modular would be starting with your PPL as you suggested, then hour building up to 150 hours while studying ATPL ground theory, then taking CPL course, Instrument/Multi-Engine Rating, then MCC (Multi Crew Conversion Course) which gets you whats unofficially known as a frozen-ATPL. Advantages are that its much cheaper, you can pick and choose between providers, you can do it at your pace, and if you time it right, its possible to finance each part as you go minimising the amount of debt you need to take on. Theres plenty of places to choose from in the mainland UK, plus a few in America where its cheaper to train. Just be careful you choose somewhere who can train to European JAA standards. Spain is another option too.

Integrated covers all of the above, but does it in one go, using only one provider. Sounds like a no brainer, but it is considerably dearer, although you will get your licences quicker, and the training providers may have links with big airlines getting you to the RHS quicker. As in all aviation, there are no guarantees. Oxford Aviation and CATS in UK and FTE in Jerez, Spain are the best it seems.

If it helps, I'm currently have way there... hour-building out of Ards, and studying the ATPLs through Bristol ground school. My current plan of action after I finish the studying (prob about a years time) is to borrow for any remaining hours building, for the CPL and a Flight Instructor Rating. Hopefully I'd like to instruct for a while before finishing things off.

Whilst all that may sound like a lot, if you really want to do it and are patient, then you'll make it in the end.

I've no idea where you are in your life at the minute, but 2 pieces of advice at the moment. Buy a 1 hour trial lesson at Ards, and see if you actually like flying small planes, because you'll be doing a lot of that.

Secondly, book in to get a class 1 medical at the CAA Gatwick. Thats the only place you can get the first one done, and they're essential. You can't fly commercially without one, so check to see if you can pass it to see if its worth all the investment. It only lasts one year, but you can let it lapse to a class 2 for your PPl and then renew come the CPL.

Didnt really mean that to be an essay, but there you go! Anyway, maybe I'll see you around one of these days. Any more questions then ask away. Plenty of us on here happy to answer!

Dave

[Nymins]

Thanks for the information, put a lot of it into perspective. Is there no way to do the CPL or ATPL training within Northern Ireland? Cause i really don't like the idea of having to move away for a long period to just do the training. Also, what funding options are available? I have been looking at easyJet's Cadet Sponsorship and it seems good, but they require that you do 9 months of training in New Zealand which throws that idea out the window.

[dsandson]

just to be clear, the ATPL is not a licence for which you will do any formal flight test for, etc. Once you get your CPL/IR/Multi/MCC you will be employable, and once you pass 1500 hrs (prob on a multi-crew aircraft - not sure) the ATPL is automatically issued to you.

Now you cannot do any of the CPL/IR/MULTI/MCC flight training in NI. But you can do your theory study as a distance course, as I'm doing, and study in your free time at home. (you could do a CPL learning course, but you'd only have to do the full ATPL course come 1500 hrs as there's no route to upgrade from CPL theory to ATPL theory).

To be honest the longest part of the training is gonna be PPL to Hours building to ATPL study. The actual training for the rest might take as much 3 - 4 months, but you can break that up into bite size chunks and only do one bit at a time if needs be.

I understand your reluctance to have to go elsewhere, after all, we should at the very least have somewhere which can train to CPL. Whilst Aldergrove has the right facilities for it, there's been nobody since AFT who has had the will or ambition to try to do this in NI.

Also understand that being qualified is one thing, getting a job flying jets or turboprops is quite tough, and takes real perserverence. It may require you to up sticks and relocate to mainland UK, or Dublin/Cork etc. I too would love to get my first job in belfast, but with all the competition out there, and almost all other newly qualified pilots happy and willing to relocate, I'll likely accept anywhere that I can get paid and get on that first rung of the ladder, then try to move back to Belfast at a later date. Remember most of england is just a one hour flight away!

To show what I mean, apparently Aer Lingus' new base at BFS had well over 200 pilots applying from all over the UK, Ireland, and even mainland Europe too!

Dont let that put you off... if you really want it, you'll most likely make it!

[cessnarocket]

just on another note if any one knows the location off mrs hobbs these days id like to no, just incase she has any more of my pennies in her pocket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::m ad::mad::mad::mad:
bi*ch

[dsandson]

Hmm yeah.. just gald I wasnt anywhere near her at that point!

[Nymins]

Thanks dsandson, thats brought some of the interest back for me. When you do your flight tests for the CPL, do you fly over to England and do them then come back to Belfast? Or do you stay over in England for awhile and do the tests as often as possible? Also, the theory stuff, do you just do it at home in Belfast and post it out to them?

If worst comes to worst, i can still get the PPL in Newtownards, work for a good bit to build up the money and then start thinking about getting the CPL. I would do the NPPL if i didn't want a career in it, but i would like to fly at night too and obviously try for a job in it.

[dsandson]

The CPL/IR/Multi flight training and flight test all have to be done from the base of your training provider, ie england spain, etc. The MCC is similar except its a classroom/Full flight simulator training course over something like 2 weeks. Various places to do that, inc one in Dublin (Parc Aviation?)

For the ATPL theory study, this is done with several files of information, in conjunction with a PC based software, with all the info in there too. Progress tests on the PC measure your progress and send that information to your school (in my case BGS), and when you're far enough along you can apply to attend the mandatory 2-week classroom brush-up courses before each set of exams. Theres also an Online Question bank of actual past paper questions to help you prepare for the exams.

Your plan there is , I beleive, what most people do. Its increasingly difficult to get loans, so the more you save the easier you'll make it for yourself in the long run.

[BounceBounceLand]

Hey! Glad to see some Norn Iron aviation interest.....

Did my SEP PPL at Ards, ATPL exams in Glasgow (GCSN) and currently plodding through the CPL course. As people have said there is no CPL training in NI unfortunately but its nice to get to travel a bit.... started the CPL in Florida and due to tech problems finishing in England in the New Year, then off to Aerodynamics in Malaga for the Multi Intrument Rating.

If you want to know any specifics about my training or have any other questions feel free to IM me

[EGAC_Ramper]

Well I see dsandson has done a mighty fine job of explaining things leaving me little to say. :O

What I will just say is the route I personally went through to where I am now.
All started in Feb of 2002 when i joined Belfast City Airport to work on the ramp and hence my name. Joined there to get some insight into aviation and the opportunity to chin wag with the pilots. The job also helped me financially as it paid for my PPL which I did out in the US of A in San Diego California over a 1 month period. I then travelled out again over the next 2 years doing various hourbuilding.
Eventually I had to make the leap for the CPL/ME/IR and ATPL theroies. This meant gaining a loan, quite hefty one too to cover the expense. However this did not turn out to be a problem and the bank seeing that I had funded the PPL/hourbuilding myself and worked in aviation they saw this as good backround and my determination to get into the industry.

Money stumped up I left in Feb 2005 for Oxford where I completed a 6month full-time groundschool course finishing in Sept 2005. Shortly after this I joined Bristol flying centre in Nov 2005 finishing up in May 2006 with my CPL/ME/IR in the bag. From there I did my MCC in Dublin as dsandson has mentioned with Parc aviation in Dublin recieving a recommendation and having my name forwarded to Ryanair. Directly from that I was offered interview/sim assessment.

Then went on starting type rating in December 2006 finishing Feb 2007 and have been flying with Ryanair since and based out of East Midlands and enjoying every moment. Its a long old road but a very worthwhile experience and I'm glad I made the leap!:ok:



Regards

[ballyboley]

Hi there, its great to see good ole Norn Iron coming up on pprune!

I started off in Aldergrove Fright Training years back with a similar ambition, then went to Ards for a bit then finished off my PPL with the nice people at Woodgate/EAC. I'm now in the USA on the Integrated course with Oxford Aviation. I went Integrated for a couple of reasons - Getting to fly in NI was becoming a nightmare with the weather and trying to do a full time job at the same time - meant I would often not get flying for 2-3 weeks on end. And secondly when I did the numbers, yes, Integrated training is expensive, but the consistency, the quality and the job prospects at the end of it are great.
I have some friends also in Oxford doing the Modular route, where they get a PPL and build the 150 hours then come and do the rest here. Its a bit cheaper but there isn't a huge difference in the cost.
Anyway, any questions are welcome, alot of good replies already.

[northloughshore]

Good to see the men and women of Norn Iron representing!

Nymins I really dont want to sound negative... but I think your looking at the wrong career if your not prepared to go away to further your education! Take it from the start, Ground school, even if you go for a home study course you are obliged to do a two week refresher course before sitting exams (correct me if I'm wrong guys but isn't this for each phase meaning 4 weeks total) Then of course it takes 2 weeks to write the exams. At present I think the closest you can do the exams is Cork. You certainly can hour build in Norn Iron no problem although very expensive and underexposure to airspace and comms not to mention continuity of training being a problem due weather. I know there are a few old guys in the province could exam you for a Cpl but as for multi and instrument rating I'm almost certain there isn't much hope. Mcc course no hope in norn iron. Then looking ahead to your first Job. Perhaps flybe nice befast base, after doing 2 weeks safety training in exeter then living in the ramada jarvis in farnham for 2 months for your sim work at flight safety farnborough, after all that is finished then you might even have to do a term elsewhere before returnig home. Like I say I really don't want to sound negative but I just wanted to be realisitic about things. I know some people aren't in a position to get up and leave, houses, wifes, kids and perhaps even a few ewes and 200 head of milking fresians. But even with family etc I've known some people to do it and hats off to them for coping with all the pressures of ground school and instrument ratings etc combined with all the domestic pressures!

Peace and hair grease