Newbie needs help here. Please.

[klumpur]

Hi,

I'm a 18 year old student who is planning to make my first step into the aviation industry as a pilot. I'm having problem choosing the right place for me to train. There were 2 option for me, the first 1 would be training locally (at Malaysia). Ridiculously, it cost about USD$ 60k to complete PPL and CPL/IR here in Malaysia, which is really expensive. I don't know why are the flying schools here are so costly although Malaysia government has already subsidies the fuel price. Basically, I'm on a tight budget.

My 2nd option would be training at Australia/ New Zealand. Compared with Malaysia, the course fee there are a lot cheaper but, my biggest concern to train there are the license. I am planning to do PPL and CPL (which will only cost me around USD$ 40k) at an oversea flying academy and than complete them with a IR and fATPL locally. I've heard from some of the experienced pilot that license conversion in Malaysia would be hard and expensive. I am worried that converting my CPL to local airline recognized one would be costly. Any one know how much will it cost to convert a CPL license?

As I am a newbie in this industry, I am not so sure about some licensing issue. Can a oversea Instrument Rating(IR) or a Multi Engine Rating(MER) be converted to a local authorities recognized one or is it compulsory to obtain them from a local flight school? What do a pilot needs to join a airline company as a co-pilot? A IR or MER?

Any pilot who have experienced converting their license in Malaysia please give me some tips and advise. I would be glad to receive any opinion. Thank you.

Regards
Ben.

[Oz_TB10]

Good question dude, yes flying in NZ/ Aus will be fun and enriching experience wise but at RM 80K for the MECIR+ATPL in M'sia will more than make up for what might seem a cheaper option of going overseas.

My advice stay im M' sia and get it done. Factor in the cost of living overseas and it will add up to more than what is charged locally. The airlines require Multi Engine Command Instrument Rating and no DCA does not recognise an overseas one. still have to do the 35 hrs min on a twin or if you have loads on the twin they might ask you to do less.

IR can be done on a single in Oz and NZ but airlines want MECIR ( Open or correction)

Happy Landings!

[chileno 777]

Klumpur,

If you are on a tight budget why don’t you try South Africa? It is a great country with excellent flight training. PPL+CPL/IFR/ME would cost you around 30.000 to 35.000 USD in a good flight school. Have not been in Australia but think that living costs are much cheaper in S.A.

[Passenger 07]

Unfortunately you will have to make a Licence Conversion when coming back in Malaysia, and the last information is that this conversion is very "heavy", so the option to make your licence abroad is voided except if DCA has changed the rules recently. I advice you to check the conversion issue with Malaysian DCA as a first step.
Concerning the schools in Malaysia, there are some well known flaws...





Check:- if the students are lagging - the quality of the flying school (Ratio of Student per Flight Instructors, qualification and experience of Instructors....)- A standard school must have a ratio around 6 students per instructor.(overall, including the students on the Ground side) If you consider only the Flying School this ratio drops to around 3.-If the flight Instructors in management position have a Civil Aviation experience or if they are coming only from Military. Military and Civil Aviation training have diverged in the last 20 years and are specialised. Military are very good in "General Handling" but less experienced in Instruments Flying, also the "Multi Crew" concept is not developed as in Civil Aviation. Military have to realise their mission which may imply there is an accepted level of risks, Civil aviation culture is "No risk at all".- the quality of the aircraft maintenance (Number of LAME -Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer- and mechanics).- take contact with other malaysian students (They have their web "Flydamnit Forum") Send them some PMs to know the exact situation in their school because they are reluctant to publish bad things on the web - On the Ground Side, check the quality of Manuals... if manuals are photocopies or Original ones of International Standard...Check not only the results which may hide some unaceptable methods. (Teaching answers to questions only and not a proper education...)

If at the end, you find no correct solution in Malaysia, and if you are decided to go abroad in spite of the conversion issue... send me a PM I will give you some more advices.Good luck

[mingalababya]

License conversion for fresh CPLs is always a pain in the butt .. it's not just the flying that you'd be reassessed on, but the theory subjects as well. It's like you're doing the whole CPL/IR again. As others have said, don't go down that path .. if you want to fly in Malaysia then get the Malaysian qualifications. It may be more costly initially, but you'll be free from all the hassles of conversion later on.

[klumpur]

As I make more research on where I should study, I get up to a Sydney based academy which they has a agent office standing by here at Malaysia to assist local student. The programme they suggested are only PPL and CPL (without IR). This is due to easier license conversion as they recommended.
Quote : "you will be require to complete another 35 hours of multi engine instrument time and complete the CAA 6 papers. The CAA 6 papers you take can go towards the ATPL so it is not like you are just repeating the CPL"- from the flying academy I've mentioned.

I am still not so sure about something. You need a IR to upgrade to MER? Or can I go for MER right after my CPL?

From many advised I received, taking all PPL, CPL/IR and ATPL at 1 go in Malaysia would be a better option. Well, as I've said before, fund were my biggest concern. Training locally would be really costly and I've heard many bad testimonial about flying academy in Malaysia. The quality of both instructor and facility were also quite disappointing.

On the other hand, converting the CASA license to a DCA license might turn something supposedly sounds cheaper the other way round. Anyone know how much does it approximately takes to convert a license?

Thank you.

[rdr]

Try to get licence which will save you a lot of hassle in the future.
You will also need to come back to Oz once a year to renew your Instrument Rating for your licence, if you want to maintain it. That will spell into quite a bit for hiring an a/c or sim and an instructor/checker. Take a look at Singapore, its a good efficient and transparent system.
Good luck.

[roxar]

hi klumpur..
for me it depends on where u want to work..
if u wish to work in ak,mh or in msia u need a malaysian license so take malaysian license..
if u wish to work in other country take their license..
if u wish and if u hv alot of money take JAAland license..
it recognise every where and complete with ppl,cpl,mecir,mcc atpl..
and easy to convert to any license..
and in oz i think we cant do the IR in single engine aeroplane if i not mistaken...i need to recheck my CAO and CAR..
but happy flying..
;)

[Passenger 07]

klumpur,
You can also do a "MODULAR" approach. PPL then CPL then MER then IR with a FI rating. and work between each step to increase your fundings.
I have sent you a PM.

[Oz_TB10]

"On the other hand, converting the CASA license to a DCA license might turn something supposedly sounds cheaper the other way round. Anyone know how much does it approximately takes to convert a license?"



Well klumpur i said it earlier, around the RM 80K mark, should the price of fuel increase then add a few grand the the above figure. Good luck, and from experience, going down the road of converting an aussie to mal, its far easier to do it in Malaysia.

[Passenger 07]

I have replied to your PM.
I understand your issue....

[GA715]

I'm exactly in the same scenario.

Would it be more convenient to train in Australia or Malaysia.

I hope you don't mind me adding to your thread Klumpur. Thanks everyone.

[klumpur]

well, you're certainly welcome GA715~
where are you actually from?

-As I've check out with some of the flying academy in Australia and New Zealand, it's really turning something supposedly sounds cheaper into a disaster. My estimation, PPL + CPL + IR (training only - as Malaysia government doesn't recognize Aust's 1) would cost around RM130 (excluding living expenses). Conversion program with CPL+MECIR + fATPL cost another RM80k. Only full tuition fee would cost you approx. RM220k.

-Doing them locally it might only cost approx. RM200k (included living expenses). Only thing is the training and facilities provided in Malaysian school are "not that" great. Situation like taking too many student, delays of training, etc.. My shortlisted Malaysia based school would be APFT and GGIFA.

As what Passenger07 has told me, there is a new International Aviation College located at Thailand which sounds great. Not sure with what they can do for Malaysia student. Currently still waiting for their reply as I've sent my inquiry via e-mail today.

[Oyster Shucker]

Hi guys,

Have you guys tried the RMAF? Great flying and free licences!!! You get to do lots more with your life than just flying what essentially are air "busses". You have to give up a certain number of years (not sure how many now) and complete ATPL on your own.On the other hand, you get to train in so many different equipments, e.g.: SU-30MKM, F-18F,MIG29N,HERCS,NURI,AWACS,PC7s,HAWKS, playing with AIM9,AIM 7,TARGETING+NAVIGATION PODS,HARPOON,AMRAAM,NIGHT VISION GOGGLES,HUDS,. M'sia is never gonna go to war with anyone. So flying those will purely be for fun and combat exercises with neighbours. Then when you're done with them,join up MAS or AA before looking for other opportunities. Don't worry about getting in or promotions as there are lots and lots of x-airforce members that'll help you out.

If you decide to go the private way, write in and get a confirmation letter from DCA for approved flying schools, before spending all that money: At home,UK, SA,OZ,THAI,MNL,INDON,INDIA, etc. Also please bear in mind of the quality of flying and training you'll get for your money. How well the aircrafts are maintained is obviously important. Local weather plays and important part too in speeding or slowing down your training, which may translate to dollars saved/spent. Cheap or cheaper isn't necessarily good.
Ring/Email those schools up and see how they reply to you. The good ones usually are keen and more professional in their approach. Good luck to you:ok: