Ulster GP Aerial Filming

[jemax]

Hi,

Could anyone please advise/recommend operators for doing aerial filming of the Ulster GP/Northern Ireland,

Thanks in advance

[Whirlygig]

Have you tried PDG?

Cheers

Whirls

[notar]

Try FlyingTV. Good product. Good Rates.

[Barshifter]

You Could try Dave Baillie At Wildcat.

http://web.mac.com/david.baillie/wildcat/Intro.html

[Max Shutterspeed]

You Could try Dave Baillie At Wildcat.

http://web.mac.com/david.baillie/wildcat/Intro.html

Cracking showreel!

http://web.mac.com/david.baillie/wildcat/Clipreel.html

MS

[jemax]

Thanks for the suggestions,

Wilco

[quichemech]

Another one for you is Polo Aviation, 01934 877000.

[lartsa]

there is helimanx in the isle of man
[email protected]

[mickjoebill]

From my perspective as on op, no one in the region specialises in aerial filming or owns a stabilised camera system.

Closest heli companies with their own 5 axis standard definition gimbal is PDG with AS350/AS355 (if available) and Heilds R44 news.


High Def stabilised systems, hand held or Tyler mounts can be shipped from UK and be fitted to local aircraft if you can find one.



Mickjoebill

[dunnarunna]

Atlas Helicopters do that every year

[jemax]

Thanks, it's looking like a position over from the mainland then, I'll advise client.

I'd rather be doing it on the bike myself!

[Barshifter]

"Closest heli companies with their own 5 axis standard definition gimbal is PDG with AS350/AS355 /"


PDG use Wildcat
http://web.mac.com/david.baillie/wildcat/Gear.html

http://www.pdg-helicopters.co.uk/Film-and-Survey-g.asp

[thwock]

aerial camera systems or arena ?

[206Fan]

Seen one of PDGs 350s out this morning in the newry area doing aerial surveying of the electricity lines!

[mickjoebill]

[QUOTE]PDG use Wildcat
http://web.mac.com/david.baillie/wildcat/Gear.html[/QUOTE
Have PDG sold their own UMII recently?
Wildcat, ACS, Arena, Flying Pictures, Skyworks, 10:13 and Helifilms are willing to fit HD gimbals on helicopters convenient to the filming location.
PDG aircraft have had all of the above gimbals at one time or another.
Then again the original poster may only need hand some held wobblescope
Mickjoebill

[mickjoebill]

One combo I came up with for a Dublin shoot recently was an aircraft from Chester and camera from London.
PDG seem to be very busy most of the time with no AS 350 355s based in Dublin.
The R44 news from Heilds (closest) or Flying TV are good value if SD camera and lack of floats are not an issue.
109s available ex Dublin for hand held or Tyler side mount work.
Mickjoebill

[rattle]

Don't think you need floats for aerial work do you?

[md 600 driver]

helimanx has a r44 with floats and a hd camera also 355 in the isle of man


which is the nearest r44 with a camera

[mickjoebill]

Yes single no floats is legal for aerial work.
Some don't want to fly low over cold water without floats near rugged coast.

Question of who is in the chopper is an issue in the UK.
Cameraman billing heli company is acceptable as they are not paying for the flight.

CAA UK seem to regard producer or director working for a company who are paying for flight as paying passengers, not crew.

Some heli companies get producer or director to invoice them as "crew", this is not so much a loophole as a noose hole.


That was the feeling last time I enquired to CAA in depth.

General consensus is the law is grey and would need to be further defined in a court of law.
Pity we cant go to court to have it cleared up in a hypothetical case rather than wait for a civil action.


Mickjoebill

[mickjoebill]

helimanx has a r44 with floats and a hd camera also 355 in the isle of man


which is the nearest r44 with a camera

Is the R44 skid mounted mount EASA approved yet?
Do Manx own a HD gimbal?
If so it will be a cost effective choice.

As a side point, Robinson designer told me they dont want anything attached to their skids but cant stop anyone designing ancillary kit.
They wont put floats on the R44 news due to C of G and all up weight issues

Good to hear of a AS355 based there, is it on high skids?


Mickjoebill

[rattle]

MJb

Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought, though I don't think a director has to invoice as they are not paying for their seat.

I looked at the R44 HD thing. The pic on the website seems to have a couple of rails running underneath the machine where the Eng microwave pod sits. Maye they can fix an HD mount there? Am certainly intrigued!

[JimBall]

There is a side bracket for the R44 - which is EASA certified. But can't see the point - why go to all the expense of a gyro mount and then lose at least half the range of the mount ?

There was an HD sidemount being used on an R44 in Florida - but they've stopped because it was a complete nightmare for the pilot and the cameraman.

And RHC have gone and put the wrong camera in their HD spec newscopter. Might be OK for small US tv stations trying to comply with Fed-mandated "must be HD or we'll take your franchise away". But is of very limited use elsewhere in the world. :{

[mickjoebill]

ooked at the R44 HD thing. The pic on the website seems to have a couple of rails running underneath the machine where the Eng microwave pod sits. Maye they can fix an HD mount there? Am certainly intrigued!

The R44 side mount was designed in 1999. As of a few months ago it wasn't EASA certified although may have been since because they were keen to finish it.

Not sure what picture you refer, (the R44 news pictured on the Manx website has registration G-Manx which doesn't tally with CAA register)
The side mount has cross bars and then a cradle.
Not sure if EASA approval is needed to fly with cross bars:rolleyes:
Camera hangs out adjacent to the back door at a point directly above the skid.
It is a neat design although most prefer nose mounts, reality is in some parts of the world it may be the only option for occasional work.


There is some confusion with camera brackets, because EASA is allowing certification of the bracket hardware but stipulating that it can't be flown with a payload unless the payload has a separate EASA approved electrical installation for specified cameras.

Some heli companies are buying brackets and are blind/ignorant to the fact they need EASA approval of a particular payload.


Rumour is that the R44 mount will have EASA hardware and electrical installation approval for the common cameras.




Mickjoebill

[Bladecrack]

From my perspective as on op, no one in the region specialises in aerial filming or owns a stabilised camera system

Try Gaelic Helicopters in Mallow nr Cork, they have a gyro stabilised camera and do film work.

BC

[rattle]

Sorry, mislead you there. It is at
http://www.island-images.co.uk/Aircraft/2006/EF041034.html
Can't see quite how you'd fit a camera under and still land though! Maybe you have to inflate the floats first.....

[jemax]

Thanks for all the advice, I was out of town for a couple of days at the Grand Canyon, tempted to take a trip on the EC130, but franly had enough of heli's recently. Stuck to terra frima, machines looked nice though.

Talking to customer about the options.

[southerncanuck]

mickjoebill is correct, we along with tyler have been working with the faa, easa on a new format of stc that allows the operator to install a payload / sensor then conduct a ground / flight test. this data can then be used for subsequent installs of the same payload type, or if the stc holder chooses, can be added to the stc as an approved payload, for all to use as a method of returning the airframe / equipment to service
tyler just got their r44 faa and easa stc with this format, we will be doing the same for our ec-135 and 145 step mount, early in the new year. send a pm if you have any questions, can send along a format version of the new appendix.
thanks
cal
www.meekeraviation.com (http://www.meekeraviation.com)

[mickjoebill]

Sorry, mislead you there. It is at
http://www.island-images.co.uk/Aircr.../EF041034.html
Can't see quite how you'd fit a camera under and still land though! Maybe you have to inflate the floats first.....

Ok , nice paint job.
The camera sits out on (either) side, above the skid on a cradle that fixes to the for aft rails in the picture.


Thanks for the clarification. That is what I thought, though I don't think a director has to invoice as they are not paying for their seat.

The grey area is that director is often on contract with the production company who are paying for the flight.
An aerial Cameraman is a freelance day player like the pilot and so can invoice heli company and is deemed part of crew.
One interpretation is that a director can be deemed part of the crew for aerial work, but it is his relationship with the production company paying for the flight that is questionable in respect to being a fare paying passenger.


Try Gaelic Helicopters in Mallow nr Cork, they have a gyro stabilised camera and do film work

Great pilot and very friendly but no roll correction on the gimbal.



Mickjoebill

[mickjoebill]

mickjoebill is correct, we along with tyler have been working with the faa, easa on a new format of stc that allows the operator to install a payload / sensor then conduct a ground / flight test. ...

The Appendix seems to say that self certification is not valid for EASA countries?

In respect to EASA registered helicopters... "The specific sensor/camera/light to be added to the STC has to be introduced by a Minor Change with an EASA accepted certification program."

Are they also saying that a payload self certified in the USA and then put on the STC by the holder isn't approved in EU?

Would be handy if EASA signed up to the concept.

Mickjoebill

[md 600 driver]

helimanx have their own easa certificate for their mount i belive it was designed by helimanx and certified in germany AFAIK

[mickjoebill]

helimanx have their own easa certificate for their mount i belive it was designed by helimanx and certified in germany AFAIK

Anyone got pictures of it in action in flight?



Mickjoebill

[southerncanuck]

mickjoebill: this is the wording as per the draft, its also the wording on the new tyler stc.
canuck

For helicopters registered in an EU-member state:

The specific sensor/camera/light to be added to the STC has to be introduced by a Minor Change with an EASA accepted certification program.

Once the testing is completed by the Integrator/Operator and the flight test conducted by the Pilot/Operator and EASA Engineer and the Minor Change is approved the sensor/camera/light, can be added to the accepted list in this manual. The report contained herein must be completed and signed prior to the “return to service” for sensor/camera/light.

[mickjoebill]

Is the EASA minor change procedure anything new and different to what we do now?

I see the template makes it easier to enter the payload addition in the manual without having to go back to the manufacturer which is a time saver.

But apparently unlike the USA where it is easier to actually test and certify the new payload, we are stuck with existing EASA procedures that require EASA rubber stamps = lost time and money?

Have I got it right?


Mickjoebill

[zorab64]

For this sort of work, I'd suggest you PM "MBJ" - do an advanced search to find him as I'm not sure how to link his details into this post! He's often on this forum.
If anyone else knows more about the availability of aerial film platforms & mounts in the UK, I'd be surprised!
Good luck :ok:

[WylieCoyote]

Davy07

You spotted me! I really must try harder to be more covert!

Jemax

Come on me old mucker you know that this is a job for the boys in Maroon!;)