4 stages of a standard departure

[bultaco]

Hi,

I've just can't find the answer to this simple question !

Q. what are the 4 stages of a standard departure ?

Is it ground roll, climb out etc or is there other terminology ?

any info on the matter would be appreciated

best,
bultaco

[Slasher]

Are you talking about climb segments???

Can be provided on request.

[bultaco]

Hi Slasher,

Yes, they must be climb segments then. Are there distinctly 4 of them ?

[Cardinal]

Very roughly:

1st Seg: Rotation - Screen height (35 ft)

2nd Seg: Screen - Acceleration height (1000 ft or whatever) at V2-ish

3rd Seg: Acceleration, some non negative rate of climb

4th Seg: Clean climb to 1500 ft or wherever the single engine procedure ends.

[a5in_the_sim]

Not quite correct Cardinal...with respect.
Segment
1. 35ft above ref. zero (15 ft on wet runway) to point/height at which gear fully retracted.
(N.B. first bit of climb to screen height is part of scheduled take-off distance required)
2. Gear-up height to level-off height (if required and min 400ft) for flap retraction. Min speed V2.
3. Acceleration (level if required) to accomplish flap retraction.
4. Final segment climb (with flaps fully retracted) to min 1500ft.

....if memory serves.
:)

[john_tullamarine]

I have seen a couple of flight manuals which schedule a 5th segment for a final acceleration to enroute climb.

[Cardinal]

a5, you're completely right, it appears I'm already going senile in my 20s. I'll blame it on my pre-dawn show time this morning :ok:

[mustafagander]

AFAIK
!st seg: 35ft HAT, 1EO, T/O thrust, T/O flap, gear retracting, ends with gear up
2nd seg: gear up, 1EO, T/O thrust, T/O flap, scheduled min gradient, ends 400ft HAT
3rd seg: gear up, 1EO, T/O thrust, flaps retracting, pos gradient, ends flap up
4th seg: 1EO, clean, T/O thrust, accelerate to enroute climb speed, pos gradient

Gradients depend on number of engines, T/O thrust time limits may intrude and escape procedures may modify heights. 2nd seg may end at different HAT in certain regulatory jurisdictions.

[Slasher]

I have seen a couple of flight manuals which schedule a 5th
segment for a final acceleration to enroute climb.

Hey John you must be thinkin about the Argosy then. Only
plane I know that has an Earth Curvature componant built
into the TO charts.....so I reckon! :}

[Old Smokey]

Slasher, the Argosy was just ahead of it's time. Satellites use the curvature of the earth to maintain level flight, falling but maintaining "level" flight at the same time, neat trick!:ok:

Armstrong Whitworth were truly world leaders!:D

John_T, interested to know which aircraft had 5th segment data provided in the AFM. I routinely build 5th segment into RTOWs and OEISIDs from "base" data, interested to know if you or other good folk like Mutt do the same thing.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[john_tullamarine]

Slasher (who, like you, knows who I am ... even if I haven't quite worked out who you both are yet) knows my background ... indeed the AW650s are the manuals to which I refer.

The Argosy's main claim to fame was its ability to convince any doubters that the back end of an aeroplane does, indeed, dance a fine jig in flight.

Nonetheless a real man's cockpit ... just about needed a loud hailer for commander and F/O to converse.

... many tales in the back of the memory ....

[bultaco]

thanks guys for the wonderful answers !

[Mr.Buzzy]

Still amazes me that the average line pilot is often expected to recite this stuff.
I mean let's face it, you're either performing or flying the engine out procedure.

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz

[formulaben]

Mr. Buzzy....+1

[Jinkster]

Funnily enough I was asked this question for an airline interview -

My answer errrm...........:uhoh: and passed!

[Roja]

Hi

Whats all that stuff about then, I vaugely remember something about T/O segments for Perf A from doing the JAR exams but have since forgotten all about it !

A indepth explanation would be most appreciated !

Thanks

Roja

[john_tullamarine]

Roja,

Suggest a quick search for the topic ... it's been done to death many times over in Tech Log ... a typical thread is this one (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192621&highlight=takeoff+segment).

[Basil]

Slasher,
you must be thinkin about the Argosy
You must be an old guy if you flew the wheelbarrow :)

Gentleman's international transport - G&Ts at all points via Med, Gulf, Gan, SIN to HK.

[Slasher]

Wheelbarrow? Nah - I called it the FLUF.

The L in this case stood for Large.


John - I met you only once yonks ago
thru a mate who used to Float around Essendon.

[john_tullamarine]

... now that brings back memories of a hard working and dedicated flying chap for whom I have the highest regard ..... did he tell you about our exercise with both feathered to get drag polars on an Aztec .... first run opened his eyes just a little ...

Do you have an email contact for John these days ? .. haven't seen him in years ... perhaps you can email or PM to me ?

regards,

John

[Slasher]

John I lost contact with him after I joined Ta-Tas
in Brizzey, and after I left Oz in late 89. Not sure but
rumored to be with Kendells.

Buzzy thats true but you DO have to know min gradients
in order to ensure your meetin the predicted vert path to
avoid hittin the hills -

Min Gross gradients -
1st - 2 eng pos climb, 3 eng 0.3%, 4 eng 0.5%
2nd - 2.4%, 2.7%, 3.0%
3rd - 1.2%, 1.5%, 1.7% (capabilitey)
4th - 1.2%, 1.5%, 1.7%

Gross gradient decraments to get min Net gradient -
(all segments) -0.8%, -0.9%, -1.0%
Net gradient must clear all obst by 35'.

Useful stuff -
* gradient% = ROC fpm/TAS kts
* 15 deg AOB degrades ROC by average 100fpm
* Change of dir greater than 15 deg - precalculated net
vert clearance is increased to 50'