Is 'sponsorship' from airlines a bit of a con?

[genesis_freak]

Ok, Ive been looking in to the different sponsorship deals that airlines give through several training centres. However, it seems they all make out that they will 'pay substantive amounts towards training' and other such things. But a little further reading it just seems you will end up paying this all back to the airline anyway so actually, in effect you just pay for the training yourself!

Take Netjets through OATS for example. Their starting salary for a First Officer is approx £40k a year as per their website. Through this sponsorship program you would get a job at £40k, however £13k a year will go towards paying back your training. So surely NetJets are actually not paying anything towards the training? Another would be the FlyBe through OATS. They state they will pay £23k twards your training and also will pay for your type rating. However it then says that you will be required to pay back any company costs in relation to this scheme through monthly dedcutions over 5 years!!!! So how is that in any way the same as how they market it (ie. That they will actually pay towards your training)? Just seems a con.

Ok there are benefits here. Obviously you are guarenteed a job as long as you pass satisfactorily, and therefore a lot less stress worrying about a job. Also Nets jets deductions do come tax free, so thats a saving of approx 22% on your £13k. However thats not because of NetJets, thats because of the Inland Revenue!

My point is, why do airlines make out that they are helping you out financially when all you are doing is paying yourself. It just seems a little unethical to advertise like this. Or at least not to make it more clear how this all actually works. At the end of the day, wouldnt it be better to sponsor yourself and then in 2 years after you have passed be in the position to assess the market and be able to select airlines to apply for at the time, giving you more freedom instead of getting so overexcited about these supposed spnsorship schemes which only benefit the airlines as they dont have to actually give anything up financially?

What do others think on this subject? Or am I missing something here, do they actually pay for you?

[5150]

You're right. It is a con, but the fact that you have that reassurance all the way throughout training that you'll walk into a job at the end of it is something not to be overlooked.

In this day and age, where there are a large number of low hours qualified pilot's out there all searching for a job, having that job 'in the bank' is worth a great deal. . . .

[Superpilot]

The modern airline “sponsorship” or “assisted/mentored” scheme is nothing more than an ‘Airline Employment Support’ scheme which comes at a premium to you. The airlines don’t run them because they are good for us! There must be something they are gaining as a result of these schemes.

These schemes nurture a pilot who feels very indebted to the airline which employs him/her. Remember too that the loan repayments only continue as long as you stay with the airline. And what are these loan repayments? Well they are actually a portion of your salary (as you are on a reduced salary anyway). A perfect situation for the airline to be in as they know that very few pilots who joined them in this way will leave anytime soon because of their huge debt.

To be realistic about it, financially and over a period of 5 years it’s probably no better a situation than the Ryanair one (except you pay for everything up front).

The wiser wannabe should see right through these schemes and realise that the integrated courses that these schemes require you to attend are a waste of earning opportunity. You’d be in a better financial situation if you spent the next 1.5 years working fulltime and doing your flight training part time modularly.

For me and I'm sure many others this approach has resulted in practically no debt at all and all the options in the world open to me on completion of my training. I really wish more wannabes valued their financial well being over getting onto a Jet at the earliest possible chance.

[Mikehotel152]

I imagine they only do it for tax breaks because it is certainly no freebie! :=

Better to have a promise of a job than not!

[Superpilot]

Better to have a promise of a job than not!

Yes but at what cost to your soul? :rolleyes:

[clanger32]

I don't know so much about the Flybe scheme, as I have not looked into it, but you are incorrect to my understanding of at least the Netjets scheme. The deal there is that you pay for the course yourself, including arrangement of all financial details. Netjets do NOT pay a penny piece towards your training. What you DO get however, is primarily the comfort of a job at the end of the course (subject to all going satisfactorily) and a paid for Type rating.

The financial benefit of the NJE scheme comes in the form of tax relief. As mentioned, the starting salary is €52500 per year (note euros) for F/Os (from memory - could be slightly out) however if you gain a place on the scheme this will be paid to you slightly differently than if you joined direct. If you join direct, the whole amount is taxable, which means very roughly you could expect around €36750 per annum. If you join as a sponsored cadet, you will be paid €36500 salary plus a "training reimbursement" of €20000 per year....therefore your salary will be approx €45500 per annum. So it's not a direct contribution to training costs, but if you're smart, you use that extra €9k to go towards your debt and it clears earlier than if you were not on the scheme at all

So on the original point, I'm not sure about the finances...it's difficult to comment without knowing the full deal, however it does seem that it's not quite as friendly as it was in the good ol' days....however, the prospect of not having to swim in the same pool as all the other self sponored wannabes should be considered worth it's weight in gold alone!

[flyingcamel]

If you sponsor yourself and pay the £65k+expenses to go through an integrated course the amount of stress involved in worrying about the market and whether you will or won't get a job is unfathomable until you are actually in that position. I have done it, and it is not nice at all. It is by far the hardest step of the process you undertake and the relief upon securing employment is gargantuan!

To call these sponsorships a con is a little short sighted in my opinion, as they are still an 'in' to the industry for those without a large wad of sweaty cash burning a hole in their pocket. Sure you pay back the cost of your INITIAL training through wage deductions, but the type is still free but bonded as I understand (just secured a position with one of the airlines mentioned.)

I know when I applied for the BA cadetship back in '99 they said there was a 5 year wage reduction in place to cover training costs. Note that is PRE 9/11 so nothing has essentially changed since then, except that cadetships are now few and far between.

As with anything in this rather uncertain life, 'you pays yer money, you takes yer choice'. I know that my inheritance would have been rather helpful in getting me a place near my assigned base now rather than bulging the coffers of an FTO. I would have gladly taken a hit on the wages instead, but alas that was not available at the time I started my training. I took the gamble and my very helpful FTO got me some interviews on the back of my own graft and results.

As a motivator, it's quite effective when you see that sum of money disappear from your account. By this I don't mean 'available debt' in the form of bank loans, but real cash that I could have stuck into property, played the markets, or becoming the next pablo escobar! I was damn sure I wasn't going to let that 'investment' be in vain, and I'm sure that helped me a lot to succeed. That said, having guaranteed employment should be as well!

The end result is just the same though, you pay either way, but that doesn't make them a 'con' in my view. It depends whether you want to save yourself the stress of looking for a job at the end of your training!

[sickBocks]

Con - No.
Commercial Sense - Yes.
You take the hit for the first few years but it gets you a job and therefore hours immediately. So you can either:

1) Benefit from Seniority by starting with the 'right' company from the start
2) Benefit from no time wasted job-hunting so you can get the hours and then move on to (1)

[hollingworthp]

sickBocks

That does assume that 1) and 2) are not with the same company.

[genesis_freak]

Thanks for the comments. Yeah absolutely, obviously the greatest thing about these schemes is having the guarenteed job. Maybe 'con' was too harsh, just thought the advertising of them was 'clever' shall we say.

I guess, like has been said, you pay either way but as I havent been through the stress of trying to find a job after maybe I was a little shortsighted on the point of having a job waiting!

Having read the comment about working full time and completing training via modular I think I may look into this option a little more. I just dont want it to take too long!

[Adios]

Con is a harsh word. You only mentioned Oat schemes. From what I have read on these, they are pretty careful not to market them as sponsorship. They refer to them as cadet schemes and various other monikers, but rarely do you see the word sponsorship, except on forums.

The official title of the two you mentioned seem to be FlyBe Assisted Pilot Training Progarmme and NetJets Europe Cadet Programme. I just did a quick search through the Oat web site in the FlyBe information an dthe only times 'sponsored' appears is when used as part of 'self-sponsored' where Oat is comparing differences to the cadet programmes and regular students. Given the evidence that they seem to carefully avoid calling these 'sponsorship' it would take a bit of a leap to infer they intend to con anyone by referring to the non-cadets as 'self-sponsored students.'

The bottom line seems to be that they are the next best thing after CTC Wings and perhaps in the case of NetJets, even better when you look at the very high pay and the fact that a £60K loan can be knocked out in six years.

[A and C]

Take a good look at the small print, at lease one UK airline keeps you on FO,s money untill you have paid back the training because of the lower salary you are receving, you are then promoted to SFO and get the pay to go with the promotion.

This is a very good deal for you because this way you pay 30% less tax for your trainning. The reason for this is that you can't be charged income tax on income that you have not receved.

[D O Guerrero]

I wouldn't say that these schemes are a con, but I do have a few ideas as to why companies like TCA, XL et al provide this sort of scheme.
The majority of graduates of schools such as OAT want to work for companies like BA, BMI etc and are likely to see charter firms, executive jet firms as being lower down their list of choices on graduation. Yes I realise that these are equally as good jobs, but it is undeniable that most people (I know, not all) would rather go to BA than TCA on completion of an integrated course. So to ensure a flow of the very best candidates into their right hand seats, they've come up with an extremely low-cost method of securing top-quality candidates at an early stage before the likes of BA get hold of them.
However the word guarantee should be used with great caution! I'm not sure if its common knowledge, but I know of at least one course of airline "sponsored" students being told recently that their guaranteed jobs don't exist any more....

[Bambe]

There's never been any guarantee with any sponsorship (except maybe Netjet).... In all cases, the employment is subject to completion of the training AND economics fluctuation..

These "sponsorships" offer a kind of serenity while training and that's it...

Even CTC is not a sponsorship.. On their website they say the airline will pay back the loan which is absolutely wrong..

As a cadet you'll make £26,158 + 12 000 to pay back the loan (=38, 158)
As a Direct Entry F.o you'll make £38,158.......



CTC simply permits those who couldn't afford such a big amount of money to perform a dream

We all pay for our training, it's the way things are going now...

As long as this job will make people dream they'd never have to pay one Penny.