Yorkshire PPLH threatened with ASBO for helicopter noise nuisance [Archive]

jeepys

8th Dec 2007, 06:50

You dont need to know someone to call them a tw*t after making comments in a newspaper article like one did.

In the UK people are generally noise/nuisance sensitive when it comes to helicopters. It does not help our fraternity when people have no regard for this issue.

Yes yes yes I understand that neighbours can sometimes be a little bit of a pain and tend to complain about anything they can but this usually happens when you dont get on with them in the first place. Crashing your 22 between them does not help I suppose.

For those that continue to piss people off being a nuisance with their helo then grow up and consider the people who fly for a living who try and get through their career in a professional maner.

You are not the first and you wont be the last. There are plenty of di*k heads out there who feel they can do what they want because they have their own 44/500/109 etc and a few quid in their back pocket. The 500 in Cornwall was a recent issue. The council soon stopped that.

Gaseous

8th Dec 2007, 07:31

Hmm Jeepys, I would be very careful about forming an opinion of anyone based on an article in the press. They are not noted for their balanced views or unbiased reporting. We will have a better idea if he's a **** or not if he continues to frequent this place.

jeepys

8th Dec 2007, 07:52

Okay fair one Gaseous you obviously know him, however if Mr Taylor did not say what was written by the press then the press themselves can be on dodgy ground.
What was quoted as said in the article may or may not have been true but as a generalisation anyone who thinks that way is a tw*t. This may or may not be the case only Mr Taylor and the reporter will ever know. Read the article.

Just one other thing, in many cases with a FIVE ACRE home you could perform an approach and departure without being a nuisance to neighbours. Could this be adopted in Mr Taylors pad?

It works in my tiny 2 acres. I wonder if Mr T would like to buy my little cottage.

on21

8th Dec 2007, 08:19

jeepys I've got to go with Gaseous on this one. I certainly don't know the fella, but I've certainly have been pictured in the press under various headings and not been able to do anything about it.

At least he stuck his head over the parapet, you've got to give him credit for that.

jeepys

8th Dec 2007, 08:23

on 21 fair one. All I was pointing out was that if the report was actually true in every respect then what would you think ???? Lets's say his name was Joe Bloggs.

Peter-RB

8th Dec 2007, 08:31

We all have problems with neighbours, in my opinion there are two ways of going about sorting them out, carry on being tainted with the problem and ignoring whats happening(much like the present Prime Minister) or take a few steps towards friendship, example:.. give em a Mince Pie and a good ole swig of the falling down water, then invite them to have a look at their house from the air ( be very careful not to frighten them, tell them every move your going to make) that way they WILL change their attitude. Either way you will become that rich bastard who was trying to show off to us, OR more likely, What a good chap he is, he's offered us another flight when the Wx is better.

From a devoted hard nosed Lancastrian, IT COSTS NOWT TO BE NICE. I know its somtimes difficult for the Tykes to see that, but its worth a try!!

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb:D

jeepys

8th Dec 2007, 08:37

Peter, dead right.

This seems very much a Lancashire thread so it's time a poofty southerner retires.

Thankyou all.

bvgs

8th Dec 2007, 08:43

Jeeps when do they ever get it right and do they care ...no. As long as they get a good headline and sell more papers they don't give a S**t. With regard to your comments about what you can do if they do mis-report or should I say when they mis-report an incident or misquote you....you'll have to have deep pockets to fight it and in the meantime they'll get more money out of the headlines that you're trying!

I admired Elton John many years ago when they tried to ruin the guy and he had the deep pockets to fight them and they still got there headline when he won.

I don't know Andrew but do know that there are people in this world who just can't see people doing well for themselves. I come from a working class background, own a R44 and once heard a guy ( who I thought was a friend albeit not a close one) calling me "that c**t with the helicopter" ...nice eh??

I find a bit like gaseous and Peter a softly softly approach works well and if they don't accept that then no matter what you do they will complain. Safe flying all.....heading out now to buy a newspaper:}

biggles99

8th Dec 2007, 09:13

I have a lot of sympathy with Mr Taylor (no I don't know him).

He made the mistake of crashing near his neighbour.

Andrew Taylor has probably wound him up just by being successful, and with that as a starting point, things can get out of hand very quickly. If you watch the clip, note the complete absence of "thank goodness the pilot wasn't killed".

The taking-your-neighbours-up thing really does work, but not everyone is receptive to this approach.

Talking of approaches, with more flying experience and more power, there really shouldn't be any need to using that guy's bungalow roof as a VASI.

Keep flying Andrew, and ignore the disparaging comments about buying something "better" than an R44.

Big Ls

Gaseous

8th Dec 2007, 13:48

I dont know him actually. I am just wary of the way the press portrays people. They have been known to make things up you know.

Anyway, damned unreasonable to call him a twit.:)

muffin

8th Dec 2007, 15:06

I agree with Gaseous, don't malign the guy based on press articles. Welcome to the forum Andrew. By the way, I was going to buy the R22 that you had the unfortunate experience with, but the wait for its new -4 blades proved interminable so I bought another one instead. Sorry about your accident - there but for the grace of God go any of us.

md 600 driver

9th Dec 2007, 16:32

This seems very much a Lancashire thread so it's time a poofty southerner retires.

its a yorkshire thread realy with the lancastrians butting in. Wakefied is in Yorkshire

never mind andrew your still welcome at breighton welcome to pprune
steve

AndrewTaylor

9th Dec 2007, 16:44

5.30pm SUN. I have just spent the last few minutes reading all the comments.

My situation is so hilarious it defies belief. If, (and my Lawyer says it is vitually IMPOSSIBLE for the Council to seriously consider) an ASBO was granted by a magistrate, the precedant set could have far reaching effects on anyone who flys privately from their own property..... and there a some pretty high profile members in the Helicopter Club of Great Britain who could be affected by it, including members of Government, Nobility, and Royalty..........

I am a guy, who, not born with a silver spoon up my ar**, started work at 16 in, belive it or not, a "bloody" pet shop.....!!!!!! Bought my first terrace house at 18, sold it, made a few quid, bought a few more, and the rest is history.

The basic problem is, that with privately owned helicopters the "rich bast**rd" green eyed monster syndrome" tends to come to the forefront more often than not.

I have nine ONLY flights recorded in the R44 check log (all deaprting after 10am and returning before 5.30pm) since 28th August to date (yes thats not a typing error, NINE!). I DO NOT overfly the neighbouring farm and cottages (at the oppoiste side of the lane), and, it is total open fields to my direct W, SW, NW........so, does that given everyone an idea about how much noise nuisance I am creating!. In a farming rural area, tractors ploughing the fields and milk waggons "day in and day out" make far far more noise than a chuf**** R44 ticking over at 70% warm up for 10 mins.

If I went into every detail about this obsessional issue that the the farm/neigbours opposite not created for themselves, I would end up typing so long that my fingers would be nummer than flying an R22Beta, with no friction applied, to Hong Kong and Back!!!! Hahahaha!

So, a "big hello", to everyone, even them that slagged me a tiny bit........ great reading all your comments.

Cheers! Andrew.:ok:

P.S - Anyone wanting to rent a R44, in the Huddersfield area...... give us a shout.... need to raise a few quid fairly quickly, the insurance premium is due in Jan! Hahaha!

A.Agincourt

9th Dec 2007, 17:34

Hello Andrew: - :D:ok: Excellent! You get my vote. Welcome.

Best Wishes

Ace

DBChopper

9th Dec 2007, 17:50

So, a "big hello", to everyone, even them that slagged me a tiny bit........ great reading all your comments.

Well said Andrew. Your tone is considerably more mature than some on this forum who clearly believe everything they read in our noble press :ugh:

Good luck with your battle with the neighbours. Are you an AOPA member? They may be able to provide some assistance.

heli-mad

10th Dec 2007, 17:32

:D well said Andrew, I fly out of LBA and we still get complaints been an international airport???:eek::rolleyes: What do they expect...

So,as long as you follow Rule 5 you'll be ok

Fly safely

H-M

ppvvmm

10th Dec 2007, 19:01

Hi Andrew,

Of course the open land to your W, NW and SW is pretty unusable due to vast electric pylons very close to your pad which enclose it on 3 sides. A nightmare of a landing site IMHO considering the general westerly winds we have here. So you seem to have to go unacceptably close to your neighbours, who just want to be left in peace and safety.

As for low flying, can you explain why your helicopter overfles the village of Briestfield at 200ft on the way into your pad? It is half a mile from your pad, is a long thin village directly in line with the approach to your pad with lots of open farmland all around it. I feel it is that sort of thing which upsets the locals.

pvm

Bronx

10th Dec 2007, 19:15

This is a £1.7m house in a five-acre garden and we have a problem with a couple of people. If they are so concerned they can move and I will buy their little cottage."

Andrew

Did you say that to the journalist or did he make it up?
Did you say how much your house is worth?
Did you say if your neighbours are so concerned they can move?
Did you say you'd buy their "little cottage"?

What's you being self made got to do with it?
Why do so many self made millionares feel the need to tell people they started from nothing even when nobody's asked them? :confused:

Good post Peter RB :ok:

B47

11th Dec 2007, 08:37

I posted much of this three years ago, but it still holds good.

You want to start flying a helicopter from your property? Think, plot and PLAN it.

I've moved house twice in recent years and had to do just that.

ONE: Move in first. Keep the machine away. Get known first as someone to be liked.

When you move into a community everyone gets a one line label that neighbours use initially when talking of you to someone else. Make sure yours is 'nice guy, runs a xxx company' or similar. DO'NT let it be 'He flies a helicopter'.

TWO: When you first move your machine in, fly a LITTLE. Avoid any pattern of the same time or day a week and avoid quiet Sunday mornings. A month or two will do.

THREE: Take as many different approach and departure routes as you can, wind permitting, and NEVER directly overfly anyone's house.

FOUR: Take the elders of the village flying. In my case and at the last village, taking one wonderful 80 year old lady (who had never flown in anything, ever), had everyone out in their gardens and right down the village street waving. Great helicopter PR and makes you look generous.

FIVE: Offer some use of your machine for free. For example, farmers like to see their fields, neighbours like to see their houses and everyone would like a free photo of their house. This last one happened to me last month and wasn't my idea. I was approached about flying a local amateur photographer, photos of houses in the village, prints available to everyone for a donation to the village hall fund. EVERYONE's happy.

FIVE: Communicate your PASSION for flying and dispel the image that it's only for arrogant flash guys with expensive toys.

SIX: For heaven's sake BE MODEST.

I don't plot this cynically and treat people like idiots. People are basically good and if they have fears about noisy machines they don't understand and think are potentially dangerous, it's your responsibility to reassure them. You get out of your relationships with neighbours precisely what you put in, so long as you set off on the right foot.

Bronx

12th Dec 2007, 13:13

"I posted much of this three years ago, but it still holds good."
Sure does.
Trouble is some self made millionares dont understand FIVE and are incapable of SIX.

nimby

12th Dec 2007, 14:37

3 things spring to mind ...

1) safe, considerate procedures
2) Cap 428 Chapter 2 covers
3) Rule 5

Good Luck

Nimby

eltonioni

12th Dec 2007, 15:58

I was under the impression that aircraft are specifically excluded by law from action arising from noise?

And as long as he's flying safely in accordance with normal landing / take off procedures rule 5 doesn't apply does it?

(willing to be corrected)

AndrewTaylor

12th Dec 2007, 17:40

Its great logging in again and reading everyones postings, although you are been a little but unfair "bronx" with your last comment..........:=.

Regards and thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment, help, offer advice and support :ok:

Andrew.

Bronx

12th Dec 2007, 22:05

Andrew Taylor
"you are been a little but unfair "bronx" with your last comment"

What's unfair about it? :confused:

I see you dodged the questions in my post before that one. ;)

Whirlygig

12th Dec 2007, 22:15

FIVE: Communicate your PASSION for flying and dispel the image that it's only for arrogant flash guys with expensive toys.

SIX: For heaven's sake BE MODEST.

Trouble is some self made millionaires dont understand FIVE and are incapable of SIX.

My italics.

Andrew, no need to take it personally but Bronx has a point; certainly with many self-made, nouveau-riche, boy-made-good types I've met!!!!:} One could names names but that could be construed as libellous and Senior Pilot's busy enough on another thread :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

The Nr Fairy

13th Dec 2007, 05:26

eltonioni:

I've no idea about any specific legislation which excludes aircraft noise from regulation.

Even if something is or is not regulated, it still has the capacity to piss people off and responsible pilots have a duty to their own community to reduce the impact of their activities as far as possible while remaining safe.

eltonioni

13th Dec 2007, 06:14

I agree entirely.

However there are many people whose capacity to become pissed off far exceeds that of most reasonable people. We don't know the ins and outs of neighbourly relations in darkest Dewsbury. We once had a silly noise complainer lie down on our runway... she picked the wrong one though :)

bvgs

13th Dec 2007, 07:15

Bronx and whirls, the self made millionaire is normally stated imho as a result of the millionaires around that carry on like spoilt brats who are not "self made". I know a number of guys who have inherited money, companies, that their parents worked really hard to build up and are complete ar****les. I know I generalise here but as mentioned in my previous posts, people are jealous and wish it was them. If you start from a humble background, re-mortgage the house, take out a loan that you'll struggle to pay if things don't go according to plan(which they never do) and work every hour god sends and after a few falls and umpteen bad predicitions manage to start to make some money and then a bit more and so on, I think you'll find that these people are much more modest and humble than the others mentioned. People do tend to categorise everyone with money the same and thats why I expect many people in this situation explain that they are "self made", in other words they have taken the risks that the others simply wouldn't consider.

I recall an ex employee making comment about the last house I purchased and how well the company must be doing and why was he not getting a larger than 5% pay rise. I offered to sell him some shares, showing him that the dividend would pay for them in 3 years....he didn't take me up and thats why he is or was where he was and why others succeed. Nothing wrong with not taking risks but don't sit there and moan at people who have done well because they have the b*lls to do it.

Andrew I don't know you and perhaps you should try and answer Bronx's other questions. I hope everything works out well and if there have been some "mistakes" on your part then try and put them right.

md 600 driver

13th Dec 2007, 07:55

BVGS
i have met andrew
the self made millionaire is normally stated imho as a result of the millionaires around that carry on like spoilt brats who are not "self made". I know a number of guys who have inherited money, companies, that their parents worked really hard to build up and are complete ar****les. I know

the opposite is true with andrew or maybe thats how people see me too or
even b47 [dont know if you started with nothing ]

AndyJB32

13th Dec 2007, 08:41

Hello Andrew, I don't know much about the story, and haven't read anymore than is on pprune at the moment.
However, just out of curiosity, if you don't overfly any of the farms and cottages, how did the R22 end up so close to a neighbours house?
Secondly, what difference should it make that "there a some pretty high profile members in the Helicopter Club of Great Britain who could be affected by it, including members of Government, Nobility, and Royalty.........." in regards to whether an ASBO will be imposed or not?
Thanks for coming on the site and putting your point of view across.
Andy

Whirlygig

13th Dec 2007, 08:49

bvgs, I was thinking more in line of those who regularly feature on "Hello" magazine :} :rolleyes:.

Cheers

Whirls

2Sticks

13th Dec 2007, 12:32

IMHO we should all support each other unless we show themselves unworthy of that. Welcome to the forum, Andrew.
Regards
2Sticks

bvgs

13th Dec 2007, 16:24

Point taken Whirls and I did start with nothing MD600 and have never been in Hello magazine......................yet, "OK" loads of times but never Hello.....Joke

Peter-RB

13th Dec 2007, 17:09

Andrew,

I realise I never made you welcome you as a new member to the only Heli Forum worth reading, in any case many other have already done so< but welcome from me :D

But you are part of a fraternity of like minded members who all have one interest in common, that is we are all vertically challenged, and by having this connection it would be crass and totally wrong to go against anyone just cos they have made a bit of Brass, I meet many Heli pilots, some are brash and appear stupid, some are quiet and appear stupid, some are rich some are poor, some have It, many dont. ... but on the whole NONE of us ever set out to make a mess of what we are doing when we fly, accidents can and do happen I think if most Pprunners were honest we have all had at least one Near do, those who have not ...Will, and those who have ..have learnt much, I know I learnt more in thirty seconds of terror than in many months of hours building.

Read and believe newspapers at your peril, todays news ..wraps tommorows Fish and chips, thats as good as it gets, sadly however most of the members of the great unwashed will believe what is printed just because it is in the next coloumn to a curvey piece of flesh that is shaped nicely and delightful to touch.

Additional tip, next spring when its a bit nicer wx throw a Barbie, ask a couple of your near neighbours round, tell em your raising funds to help the new lead fund for the Church Roof, park your Heli miles away and have a battered Land Rover on the drive, if that dont work... THEN MOVE and Bal***ks to them, come down here to good ole Lanky move next to me, with me and my shotguns and you and your big chopper we would rule the roost, everyone would love us:ok:

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

ES Bronx Thank you for your kind words;)

AndrewTaylor

17th Dec 2007, 16:50

Hello everybody.....

Its been a **** weekend, no flying coz the cloud was lower in "Sunny Dewsbury" than snakes belly, a f**cking R44 that won't start (as its only been flown twice in two months), and a new diseal car that I filled up with unleaded by mistake.

Has anyone any tips on starting a freezing cold bloody 44????......... my mechanic says give it 10 good pumps and then wait 30 seconds...... sounds like my sex life!!!! Hahahahaha! (I HAVE STILL NOT GOT IT GOING)

R-B - I appreciate your comments and support.

Bronx.....thought your original questions a bit personal about my house value etc etc....who knows you may work for Inland Revenue on the quiet!!!! haha!

And, can't decide knows me? What is MD600 or BVGS? Excuse me been a bit thick.

On a more serious note...... I am thinking about getting rid of the 44 to a JRangerIII. Anyone had experience with running costs of JR's, weather theres a huge difference in between a II and a III. Coz theres a huge difference in sec hand vals. The seems to be lots of JRs for sale. Any ideas why? Mind you, theres certainly plenty bags of sh*t for sale that have been tarted up. (Ya know, Joan Collins looks ace for 72, but in 10 years she'll be knackered no matter what.... if you get the drift.)

MD600.......Is this your personal machine, what are the running costs like on this? Big mate of mine had a MD500 (before he went bust!), and said it was the best thing he had ever flown in his life. He's now got a 44...coz times are hard and friends are few!!!

Andrew

Bronx

18th Dec 2007, 16:40

Andrew Taylor Bronx.....thought your original questions a bit personal about my house value etc etc....who knows you may work for Inland Revenue on the quiet!!!! haha!
Nothing personal about it, your just dodging the questions.
The guy who wrote the story and gives his own name at the top says you said --
"This is a £1.7m house in a five-acre garden and we have a problem with a couple of people.
If they are so concerned they can move and I will buy their little cottage."

We all know not everything in the newspapers is right but not everything is wrong either so I just asked you --
Did you say that to the journalist or did he make it up?
Did you say how much your house is worth?
Did you say if your neighbours are so concerned they can move?
Did you say you'd buy their "little cottage"?
I guess its good of you not to accuse this journalist of lying but with a flash arrogant attitude like that its not surprising you got problems with your neighbors.

As B47 said FIVE: Communicate your PASSION for flying and dispel the image that it's only for arrogant flash guys with expensive toys.
SIX: For heaven's sake BE MODEST.
And if you don't fly over your neighbors houses how come you ended up in a neighbor's garden as ON21 says in post #2? :confused:

eltonioni

18th Dec 2007, 16:56

Having given AndrewTaylor the benefit of the doubt, post #43 makes me think that the neighbours probably have a point. :(

NearlyStol

18th Dec 2007, 18:15

Seconded !

206 jock

18th Dec 2007, 21:35

I am thinking about getting rid of the 44 to a JRangerIII. Anyone had experience with running costs of JR's, weather theres a huge difference in between a II and a III. Coz theres a huge difference in sec hand vals. The seems to be lots of JRs for sale. Any ideas why? Mind you, theres certainly plenty bags of sh*t for sale that have been tarted up
I'd steer clear of a JetRanger if I were you (please). If you can't start an R44.....

Barndweller

19th Dec 2007, 10:04

Having lurked on this thread for a while just to see how much deeper Mr Turner would dig himself...
I'm pretty sure now that it is probably true that your neighbors are complaining largely because they dislike you - and i can't say i blame them! You come across as unpleasant and crassly ignorant and arrogant. I'm not sure that in all my years of ppruneing i have ever come across as much foul language and smutt as you have managed to get into just three or four posts. Please have a little more respect for the people who read and post here.
Furthermore - based on what you post rather than anything i have read in the newspapers, i have to seriously question your attitude and airmanship - "I think i did pretty well to get it down" - You should never have put a single engine aircraft into the situation where it was a "risk to persons or property on the ground" in the event of a "loss of power" (what caused that "loss of power" by the way?). I think you need to take a very long hard look at the way you fly, the way you think about flying and the affect that your flying has or may have on other people otherwise you will do serious damage to an already much beleagured industry and stand a significant chance of killing yourself or some other innocent bystander.

ppheli

19th Dec 2007, 10:31

Talking airmanship, Mr T, were you the Yorkshire PPL being talked about in the bar at Helitech who had told other pilots in the minibus that you carried on when the cloud base was 200ft agl? Your R44 was there at Helitech that day too...

jeepys

19th Dec 2007, 10:42

And to think I got a slating when I first aired my views on the prat.
I rest my case.

Gaseous

19th Dec 2007, 14:13

earlier comments deleted as impolite. If I met Andrew I would be courteous and civil. This place should be no different. Apologies.

Andrew wrote Excuse me been a bit thick.

No problem Andrew. We understand. You're from Yorkshire;)

Mr Sandman

20th Dec 2007, 09:35

These type the threads always seem to raise a smile...

What's that they say about giving 'em enough rope??

:ugh:

md 600 driver

20th Dec 2007, 11:39

mr sandman

i think you will find that post was very offensive

Bronx

21st Dec 2007, 15:43

Offensive?
Give a guy time and he'll dig himself deeper.
Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself.
Two old sayings.
What's the difference. :confused:

AndrewTaylor

21st Dec 2007, 18:26

Thanks for the support MD600.......you were right, "Barndwellers" comments were totally offensive to me, but not knowing if "Barndweller" is actually a copter pilot or just another "wannabee anorak planespotter" makes it hard for me to comment. If he was a fellow pilot, be it PPL, commercial or instrcutor, he should knows just how hard it it to get your license and therefore would not insult a fellow pilot in such a way!!!!!

My previous comments were just trying to be lighearted and fun......and I suggest that some of the members especially "Barndweller" need to "get a life".

I think its time to "call time" this thread!!!!!! Not going to bother opening it up anymore!!!!!!

Rgds, Merry xmas everyone........
AT

Mr Sandman

21st Dec 2007, 20:08

Offensive? No. Flippant? Perhaps.

My comment referred to this being one of those threads that appears on here from time to time where discussion between intelligent professionals breaks down into tit for tat oneupmanship. Some of us may be guilty of being too easily goaded into that.

One of the merits of this forum is it's relative anonymity. AndrewTaylor waived that privilege and by correcting/confirming some details gave impetus to a discussion that would otherwise have been a series of casual observations and assumptions.

Others have mentioned the fact that the industry comes under greater scrutiny and is a regular target for harsh and sometimes unfair criticism. Some of AndrewTaylor's comments haven't help our cause.

Perhaps in future he may win over one or two critics when he posts on subjects he is less personally involved in. Time will tell. As per my previous post.

scooter boy

21st Dec 2007, 22:40

Hi Andrew,
I have to say that you have come across as being good humoured and very measured in your handling of the severe criticism you have received by individuals who do not know you and also your attempted cross-examination by certain individuals on this thread. Well done!:D

As for the sanctimonious tw@t lecturing you about single engined ops and your accident in the 22 - let he who has never sinned cast the first stone, he must be a perfect pilot.:yuk:

The media invariably edit and twist our words and you should not have to justify your alleged comments, I am sure there was no malicious intent.

Sadly you have been on the receiving end of a (typically British) jealousy driven inquisition on this thread.

Shame on the rest of you sanctimonious gits - get over your jealousy!!

SB