Annington homes and the great MoD bungle/cover up/deception/rip off/debacle..

[Al R]

Nothing that we didn't know already I guess, but nice to see Swiss Des being exposed for the toerag that he really is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7115903.stm


Troops lose out to private landlord.

Forty per cent of the £5bn set aside to improve military housing will be spent on renting the buildings from a private landlord, the BBC has learned. The Ministry of Defence has said the money would be spent on upgrading accommodation over the next 10 years.

But figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act show £2bn will be spent renting back premises sold off by the state in 1996. The MoD said it was "contractually obliged" to pay the private landlord. In July, Defence Secretary Des Browne said the MoD planned to spend the £5bn on "upgrading and maintaining" accommodation. But the BBC freedom of information (FOI) request has revealed that property developer Annington Homes will receive almost £2bn of that sum.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42411000/jpg/_42411295_bath_1_bbc_203.jpg

Come back from ops, and rinse the sand out in a lovely hot Annington bath..

[PingDit]

More to the point, we'll be giving them 2bn for homes we sold to them for 1.6bn!

[Kitbag]

Pd is right in pointing out that the rent will be more than we received for the estate when it was sold, and that is an annual figure. It would be unfair to level the blame on the present government though, this farce began before the present bunch of incompetents were elected. I am sure many of us who were serving at the time predicted the outcome correctly (if only I could predict the lottery numbers as accurately!). It would be informative under FoI to find out if these outcomes were forecast, what actions were taken to alleviate the financial loss to the state or whether, as it always seems to be, short term benefit is regarded as the only driver in far reaching financial decisions, in which case we're definitely going to get screwed by the 'I want it now and s>d the cost' generation of politicians.

[Epimetheus]

Please can someone informed clarify. We pay rent on SFA individually, so what is the purpose of this £2bn?

Is it to:
a. Top up the amount of rent we pay per SFA to a level agreed between MOD and Annington? eg £300 by occupant + £sum from MOD = agreed sum
b. Or, rent houses back from Annington that MOD sold and said we would no longer need, but Annington still have on their books and MOD now has a shortage?
c. Or, pay a standing block MOD rental charge in addition to our individual payments?

Or, is the £2bn that total amount of rent the aggregate we pay to MOD for our SFA, which they then transfer to Annington? If so, then the £5bn should only ever have been £3bn.

Very confused.

[SirToppamHat]

Epimetheus

Although we pay rent as individual license holders (not tenants), the MoD pays rent for everything, otherwise, there would be no flex in the housing stock because empty houses would be leased to anyone (interesting when the houses are behind the wire...).

I suspect that the money paid out by MoD/DE is the whole amount, whereas in practice this is off-set by the 'license fee' we pay to the MoD as licensees. That is to say that the £5Bn is actually not the true figure (as you and the BBC suggest).

As Kitbag points out, the wholesale disposal of MoD MQs took place under the a Conservative SoS for Defence called Portillo. It has always been my personal view that this was, at best, a huge error, and at worst, tantamount to fraudulent practice. According to the then Chiefs of Staff, the money raised would ctually benefit all of us because it could be used to bring the MQs up to a proper standard (Grade 1 for Condition ISTR). In practice, however, most of the cash disappeared into the blackhole that is the NHS and the benefits system. An additional benefit would be that the housing would no lomger be a drain on resources for individual units, though in many cases this means that individual unit cdrs simply wash their hands of housing issues except in the most dire of cases.

One other thing that was supposed to happen was that houses released for sale as 'surplus to requirements' were supposed to be offered to Service Personnel in the first instance and at preferential rates. In practice this has mostly meant that a small number of houses were offered in each block at, say, 1 or 2 % off the headline price - this doesn't even begin to compare with the previous system. The other issue in this area though is whether a 'patch' can be sold as a block to a developer; I know of at least one instance where the whole of a patch in Norwich was sold in this way, effectively denying any opportunity for Service personnel to purchase - scandalous.

STH

[Epimetheus]

STH,
Much obliged.

[Affirmatron]

More importantly, because Annington homes have us over a barrel the Married Patch rents are due to rise to a 'market equivalent' around 2010. I'm looking forward to a London posting so that I can pay £3500 a month for a 4 bedroomed house. Or would I rather be in Scotland at £1000 for the same?

Once again MOD has had a terrible decision forced upon it and now has to live with the consequences. Time for a revolution methinks.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Yes - the renegotiation of the contract with Annington in a few years will be interesting. I'm sure there was a thread on here recently on the subject - and some of the options that were being worked through - even the very scary ones.

[HILF]

In 1999 I was forced to occupy an Officer's MQ by virtue of my (civilian) appointment.

The (then) DHE insisted on an open market rent of £700 pcm, which I then reclaimed from MoD, together with the other costs (utilities, etc) on an actuals basis.

At the time the previous occupant (a Flt Lt) was paying less than £200 pcm.

Even then I thought it was barking - the only good aspect of Annington (Nomura) ownership was a singular lack of march out at the end of my occupation, since the MQ was being "handed back" to them!

I also remember that the Accounts Flight at BZN (bless 'em) were charging 17.5% VAT on the Electricity bills and refused to admit their error until I got some-one from Customs and Excise (as was!) to write to them explaining the error of their ways.:ugh: This affected everyone occupying an MQ on the patch and I made sure a copy of the correspondence went on the Crew Room noticeboard!:}

HILF

[Roland Pulfrew]

STH

You are correct about the sale of the housing stock and the fact that Service chiefs agreed because some of the money raised from the sale would come back to improve all MQs to Grade 1.

Unfortunately there was a general election in the meantime and New Liarbour renaged on the deal with the new Chancellor (now the PM) taking the money due to be used for the improvements to pour into the blackhole/sacred cow that is the NHS.

[SirToppamHat]

Roland

Yes, but it is worth noting that the condition of the housing and intent by MoD to keep its original promise was [U]not[U]changed when New Liarbour got in. In any case, they've had 10 years to sort out this shambles.

Incidentally, anyone care to hazard a guess at the cost, per room, of the relatively small number of bedspaces provided under the SLAM Project?

Bearing in mind that the land on which these new buildings are constructed is already owned by DE, it should be considerably less than the cost of a room for a Travel Lodge ... shouldn't it? Anyone from the Project care to comment?

STH

[N Joe]

On return from an overseas tour some years ago, spent several weeks living in the Offs' Mess with the family because there were no quarters available. A tour of OMQs revealed many houses "being refurbished" but with no discernable activty. A complaint to OC Admin drew an apologetic denial of responsibility (accepted) and a statement that the MOD pays a flat rate whether the MQs are available or not - hence the lack of urgency from DHE.

Great deal from their perspective!

N Joe

[D-IFF_ident]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7117977.stm


And a dozen other new sites too.

[catbert]

If 40% of Married Quarters are poor (see para 2 of the BBC article), according to the public accounts committee, how can Derek Twigg say that 95% are of the highest or second highest standard in the final para? Poor is Grade 3 or below. One of them has to be lying surely or am I missing something. Maths does not seem to be this Govt's strong suit.
CB

[LFFC]

More detail keeps appearing on the BBC website (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7139610.stm).

Some of the unoccupied homes have been judged to be in too poor a state to house tenants.

[Truckkie]

I have a question - how can we expect our junior ranks to pay market value rent for SFA?
The idea behind MQs is to provide low cost,affordable family housing for those in the military who are unable to afford a private property in the area of their posting.
Are we going to see people refusing postings because of the location and associated market value rent?
As a JO I would struggle to pay a mortgage on a small 3-bed semi in the area of Lye or Bzn - average price is now over £200000!!!!!
What is going to happen when our troops can't even afford to live in SFA?
More importantly, I wouldn't pay any more than I am now for my 1950's, unmodernised, cold, damp OMQ.
And for all those people who will cry out - "don't winge just buy your own home!!" - why should I when I spend over 6 months of the year away and I may be moved on after this tour?
Just another part of the covenant broken!:mad:

[LoeyDaFrog]

Trukkie,
Here Here!!

[Al R]

If a company was run that badly, the shareholders would call for the board to resign, or the directors would be suspended. That is simply appalling. It beggars belief that this can happen, that nobody thought to project ahead by even a few years. The attitude is all about spinning things for the here and now, because by the the time the snag is aired, the person responsible would have moved onwards and upwards.

I am so disgusted. Shame on them. Someone needs to turf them out and install people with passion, commitment, common sense, a sense of understanding and a sense of responsibility.

[South Bound]

There is no intention that anyone should pay market rates, that is urban legend. It has been mentioned that ONCE houses are of an equivalent standard to that which can be expected outside, that rents may increase to come more in line with market rates LESS a proportion to account for the faff of being in the military etc.

This has not been thought through, and no-one has addressed how it will affect rentals in different areas (the old 'financially disadvantaged by being posted to the South of England' argument) or even what figures they are looking at. AFPRB are conscious of the issues, but most focus is on bringing the estate up to standard first.

Gut feeling is that so many of the forces are on a knife-edge about leaving that they would need to be very careful about hitting us with a significant raise in rent (pay drop?). In the current climate, I am quite looking forward to the AFPRB report next year...

[The Helpful Stacker]

As a JO I would struggle to pay a mortgage on a small 3-bed semi in the area of Lye or Bzn - average price is now over £200000!!!!!


Fortunately military personnel now qualify as 'Key Skill Workers' and are able to purchase homes through the KSW scheme. Unfortunately the qualifying criteria are a little too specific.

1) You must be based in the South East.
2) You must be able to guarantee on application for the KSW scheme that you will be residing in the SE for a minimum of 5 years.

Quite how many people in the armed forces fall under the first criteria I'd be interested to see but not as much as I'd be interested to see how many folk can meet the second of the criteria!

I asked Swiss Des to give me an answer to the above when he visited Odious a while back (and the CO and a PRO asked for a copy of the question) but he and his minions have been strangely quiet.

[Roland Pulfrew]

Isn't it time that the married quarters estate was just nationalised? We could buy back (preferably at the same price they paid for them) all the homes we need leaving Annington with all the surplus quarters that we do not need on those bases that have been closed and have no future. That way instead of paying £2B per annum renting the estate (that we all once owned) back from Annington we could actually afford to modernise them!!

If the govt was far sighted enough we could even nationalise the excess and rent them to nurses, policemen and teachers etc thereby guaranteeing maximum occupancy and helping alleviate the housing problem for these other "key workers".


(And supplying the singlies with a ready source of wives/husbands:E).

[SirToppamHat]

2) You must be able to guarantee on application for the KSW scheme that you will be residing in the SE for a minimum of 5 years.

Which would make it impossible for your Deskie to sign a mobility certificate and therefore would remove entitlement to Continuity of Education Allowance (the only reason to stay in for many people).

Anyone have any info on the cost of SLAM yet?

STH

[The Helpful Stacker]

Oh Roland, you don't understand this present variety of Labour at all.

Re-nationalise married quarters? Many current wearers of red rosettes would rather cut off their own hands than scare off potential party funders who own large companies with the prospect of nationalisation.

[Al R]

Roland said: If the govt was far sighted enough..

Oh Roland, you do make me chuckle at times!

[South Bound]

STH

thought it was £100k per room.

SB

[SirToppamHat]

I'd heard it was a bit less than that, but not much.

Obviously the cost of the land they're built on must add to the overall price ...:{

STH

[TOPBUNKER]

This has been, and still is, such a fiasco that nothing less than a far-reaching Public Inquiry is needed.

The National Audit Office people might like to take a more active interest too.

[Whenurhappy]

Try £55K per bedspace (not £100K!), furnished, including communual areas, kitchens, landscaping and, er, CTM to harden the buildings. SLAM is built to a much, much higher standard than a 'Travelodge' and the cost includes full maintenance (including barrack damages) for 7 years.

[South Bound]

I wonder why it needs to be to a much, much higher standard than a Travelodge. They have similar fittings requirements and an en-suite and one would think that the transient TL occupants treat their rooms as harshly. Wish my quarter was as good as a TL.

Maybe that is why they cost an outrageous £55k per room....

[Whenurhappy]

Why to a higher standard? Try a 60 year (refurbishable) design life (15 for TL) and other protection measures. Moreover, SLAM blocks seem to be well treated by their occupants across the three Services. PM for more details.

[South Bound]

Interesting that we are paying for something to last for 60 years when we don't have a scooby clue which units are going to be open in 10...

[In Tor Wot]

According to AFPRB report (http://www.army.mod.uk/linkedfiles/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/afprb_report/afprb_2007.pdf)the initial plan was for 24,000 slam bedspaces for £750M (£29k each), however, it has been scaled back considerably and the latest they have is that 12,000 bedspaces will cost £463m (£38.5k each).

One of the other scandals regarding SFA is where Annington sell houses that are needed and hand the resulting housing problem over to the military to sort out with ERA (or whatever it’s called now). The bill for ERA is picked up by the military (approx £120k per month at High Wycombe a couple of years ago) whilst Annington sold quarters on the High Wycombe and Halton trousering the huge profit - bearing in mind they bought them for an average of £12k each, a 3 bedroom quarter was being sold for £170k for a 25 year lease. :eek:

[mutleyfour]

I am quite looking forward to the AFPRB report next year...

South Bound

I'm not too sure it will contain what you want. I have heard we are to be sweetened with non workable attractions such as part time work and career breaks etc in order to boost morale. The downside for us is the leverage such schemes provide to the Government for them not to raise our pay satisfactorily as they have addressed our SUPPOSED needs elsewhere.

[A2QFI]

Visiting Bracknell last week I saw the old Staff College site being built on. Was that sold by MOD, what did they get for it and where has the money gone? Ring fenced for accomodation improvements? Probably not!!!!

[D-IFF_ident]

Anybody else tried to get their FSA charges corrected? Turns out JPAC can't do it, neither can unit HR staff - DE sets the charges now it appears.

And mine are wrong.

[VinRouge]

Yep, sorting out quarters charges after they mysteriously stopped a while back...

The only language they seem to understand is the threat of redress I am afraid. Already gone down that route once, got probs sorted ,now looks as if I will have to do the same again.

How very frustrating, and proof to me that DE either dont care, are incompetent, or, as I believe, a combination of civil-servant-esque and negligent.