Shuttle practise at RAF Fairford

[AonP]

Interesting article about receiving an aborted Space Shuttle launch at RAF Fairford, does anyone know how the airspace would be cleared to allow the shuttle in? It seems that time would be very short and I'm not sure it would be achievable.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123076617

[BluntM8]

It seems to me that the procedures used to clear the airspace will be fairly limited, since the expected approach path is predictable. And since it is from the west (I imagine...) then it doesn't cross the overhead of any major london airport.

Of course, based on my experience they may need to route via BCN to get clearance from Cardiff to cross N864/N862. Even then they will probably be filed against...:E

[Champagne Anyone?]

Wasn't/isn't Finningley a relief landing ground for the shuttle too?

[BOAC]

route via BCN to get clearance from Cardiff to cross N864/N862. - and 280 or below at BCN for sector liaison, of course.:)

[Al R]

Champagne,

Greenham Common was (and Machrahanish?).

[Speedbird48]

Basics Guys,

Steam gives way to sail!! OR, a glider gets priority over a powered machine. It may be big but it is a glider.

If it was going to use a UK airfield of any sort it would probably be an emergency, don't you think?? ie; some sort of priority handling!!

Hows about 250kts below 10'000??

keep the imagination going.

[Vee One...Rotate]

"Discovery is a type Space Shuttle, routing Florida direct Fairford, currently north of the Azores, 200,000 feet on QNH 1003, estimate Fairford momentarily, request joining instructions."

A trans-Atlantic abort has got to be pretty sporty :ok:

V1R

[Geezers of Nazareth]

I believe that the use of RAF Fairford as a landing-ground for the Space Shuttle only relates to an abort during its launch from Florida. Moron in Spain, somewhere in Morocco (can't remember name just now) and Ascension island are also 'used'/available. They are known as TLAs - Trans-Atlantic Launch Aborts

All the launches from Florida climb rapidly to the north-east, heading towards Europe.
I seem to remember that there are three different launch profiles, depending upon their planned orbit -
28 degree orbit - TLAs Ascension and Morocco
38 degree orbit - TLAs Morocco and Moron
51 degree orbit - TLAs Moron and Fairford

If there was a reason to abort the launch after lift-off they would head for the most suitable place, and they wouldn't be too bothered about ATC comms, they would be rather busy!

For what its worth, the '51 degree' orbit is the one that goes to the ISS, and 18-20 minutes after launch the Shuttle and main-tank overfly the southern UK and much of Europe, and with a clear sky are very visible. With a little bit of preparation you can also hear them (briefly) on the UHF radio in your aircraft.

[Roadster280]

24 mins, from launch to wheels down, I believe.

Do they carry passports, or would the Immigration folks just let them in anyway?

[harrogate]

Finningley definitely used to be down for Shuttle diverts. I remember the article in the local rag when it was officially stood down from the role.

[WillDAQ]

Am I the only one who finds these contingency plans a little optimistic?

Yes, it's sensible to have a get out plan for every occasion you can think of, but at the same time the chances of a failure occurring during launch from which the solution is a trans-atlantic launch abort are rather slim.

The carry on to orbit (minor techical hitch) or err.. holistic system failure are more likely.

[DaveyBoy]

They're bloody lucky the FAA allows them to launch themselves above FL280, being non-RVSM and all...

[harrogate]

No more optimistic than Alistair Darling buying a 2008 diary.

You have to take these measures in case the worse happens (i.e. Darling stays in office).

[SmilingKnifed]

American TV allows you to listen to their R/T. I seem to remember they passed the shuttle different diversions at different phases of the launch. In this case it was Zaragoza, which the crew acknowledged.

[ORAC]

The time from first call to landing is only 10 minutes and the speed with be between M2.0 and M1.0 until it hits the timing circle. All they could aim for would be to get all airborne aircraft out of a circle radius 30nm based on Fairford to avoid the brick coming down......

NOTAM from 1992:.......

b. Any arrival of the shuttle aircraft at RAF Fairford will be an emergency situation.

c. The aircaft will contact RAF Fairford on frequency 243.0 Mhz 10 minutes prior to landing. It will remain on this frequency until landing.

d. The shuttle aircraft is NOT transponder equipped.

e. The shuttle aircraft CANNOT accept vectors for any reason.

f. Traffic information is not wanted by the shuttle crew.

g. The sponsor will maintain an open line of communication with RAF Fairford from launch until launch +10 minutes when vulnerability has passed for the launch phase.......

The diagram shows the classic shuttle descent into the timing circle with the shuttle passing FL600 about 35nm out and FL300 about 10nm out.

IIRC it was only ever an option for a launch into a polar orbit, which is not planned for any of the remaining shuttle missions.

[charliegolf]

It'll all be going swimmingly, and then they'll be totally buggered right at the end when told to set the QFE......:ok:

CG

[Windy Militant]

Is it true that if they did manage to get into Fairford successfully, there is no means of getting the thing out of there.
Apparently if it did happen they would have to build a new road into the base to get a big enough crane onto site to lift it onto the 747 transport vehicle?

[Regie Mental]

There's also no crane in the UK big enough to lift it so they'd need to ship one in and then build it.

[ORAC]

The max weight of the orbiter in an emergency landing is 240K lbs/120 tons. Loads of wheeled cranes capable of lifting it (http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=689). but they'd fly in and assemble their lifting derrick to do the job and then position the 747 underneath it.

[Agaricus bisporus]

estimate Fairford momentarily,

Well, they won't be needing anything bigger than bin-bags and shovels to shift it in that situation...and a JCB or two to fill up the hole in Oxfordshire afterwards.

[Windy Militant]

Tinternets a wonderful thing!
According to a NASA report there are only four mobile cranes in America that have the lifting capacity at the required reach to do this.

Shuttle lift (http://www.wstf.nasa.gov/WSSH/STS3.htm) :D

[cornish-stormrider]

why bother? I say we impound it under health and safety regs, strip it and flog the bits back a piece at a time.........

ohhh , a black omega has just pulled up.

[WASALOADIE]

If Brize ATC are anything like they used to be, they'd tell it to hold outside the ATZ for 10 mins before allowing it in. They never did ever seem to be able to handle more than 1 a/c at a time.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well then, let the Shuttle crews thank God they aren't diverting to Upper Heyford!

[Max Shutterspeed]

Wasn't/isn't Finningley a relief landing ground for the shuttle too?

I heard that Elvington was the diversion ground in this part of the world, cos it's got stacks of runway...

Have I been told a load of b*llocks?

MS

[L J R]

With the high ROD, and 'glide' profile you might find they actually enter UK airspace at the Fairford airfield ILS Outer Marker (At Flight Level a Gigillian) for a touchdown 10 miles later. Henct the 'advisory' call to tower on Guard. Note that it glides at something like M - 6 reducing to M 0.5 (300 IAS or so at touchdown). Also note that the ILS (if fitted) will not be suitable for the VV strrp G/S said 'Brick' flies. Me thinks that the recovery effort after the fact is a relatively 'minor' logistical problem once the crew and hull is safe - that is when you compare it to the 'oh Fu**c!' factor after launch.

[scran]

There is also an "emergency" strip in Oz.


Actually two I think.


I seem to remember the other issue is the toxic "stuff" the thing emits after said emergency landing - so I'm not sure if you would ever WANT it to turn up :rolleyes:

[L J R]

That wouild be hydrozene (sp?) - The stuff in F-16's when they do the flame out approach.

Have a look at launch control and see the 'Glide Envelopes' around the big picture world map. Gives you a idea where it could on after a thrust loss.

[cliver029]

They carted a shuttle into Stansted on the back of a Jumbo in the early 80's(?) as a test for the same 'long runway' reasons.

Cliver

[Windy Militant]

Twas Enterprise, the glide test article on it's way to (or coming back from) Paris for the airshow. It also made an appearance at Fairford. So it's a fairly safe bet that if they can get it on the Jumbo (making sure that the black side's down) they can get it out of there.

[sitigeltfel]

Has anyone else actually seen the Shuttle while in flight? I remember seeing one of them pass over Southern Fife, after launch, in the mid eighties. The met and sun conditions were perfect and there were two images visible, one the shuttle itself and the second was its shadow printed on the atmosphere as it raced across the sky. The press had mentioned that it may be visible that day so there were a few of us watching for it.
I doubt Leuchars would have made a suitable diversion option, but the yanks do enjoy a game of golf. :)

[OCCWMF]

The max weight of the orbiter in an emergency landing is 240K lbs/120 tons. Loads of wheeled cranes capable of lifting it (http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=689). but they'd fly in and assemble their lifting derrick to do the job and then position the 747 underneath it.


Who is 'lifting Derek'?

[M609]

hydrozene (sp?)

Hydrazine (N2H4), and yes very nasty indeed.
The RFFS really hate the stuff.

[harrogate]

One of the alleged Shuttle emergency strips in OZ is RAAF Darwin.

It has a loooooong runway, but not as long as it used to be.

I think it's about 11,000ft now, but it used to be as long as that waste of desert known as Doha International - summat like 15,000ft.

[moggiee]

and a JCB or two to fill up the hole in Oxfordshire afterwards.
Or even Gloucestershire!

[FLCH]

GO AWAY SHUTTLE you can't land here.......
http://www.waag.uk.com/images/gordon1.jpg

[Razor61]

According to NASA the orbiter is quote:- "About the size of a DC-9 jetliner, a Space Shuttle orbiter does not require such a large runway for landing." unquote.

Fairford is 10,000ft with i think 1000ft of overun if needed (someone can correct if wrong). The Orbiter touches down at around 216-226mph and with chute deployed it can make it, should imagine on Fairfords runway without any problem at all.

I think the only limiting factor for the choice of runways is that the B-747 needs much more to take off than usual, with a DC9 sized load on its back...

Plus the B-747 needs just as capable airfields along the route. (Keflavik, Lajes etc)

It uses so much fuel on the route home from Edwards and travels much more slowly that it needs to touch down again at Ellington Field, Houston before taking off again routing to Florida.

I should imagine the route home from Europe would take atleast two days.

[The Flying Pram]

I watched some of the satellite feeds of the mission and there was a "pilots eye view" of the final approach - one hell of a steep descent!! I seem to remember reading that NASA had to modify a Gulfstream? to operate with in-flight thrust reversers to give the crew some realistic training...The actual landing was pretty damn good, and the roll out doesn't seem particularly long.
All the ground crew who first approach the shuttle when it has stopped are wearing full suits and breathing apparatus, which tallies with the comments about "nasties" being given off.

[Focks 2]

'Nasties' include:

Hydrazine - 1,085 pounds. Shuttle APU's.
Monomethylhydrazine - 10,800 pounds. Fuel for RCS/OMS.
Nitrogen Tetroxide - 17,500 pounds. Oxidizer for RCS/OMS.
Refrigerant 21 - 59.7 pounds. For closed-loop heat transport.
Liquid Ammonia - 110 pounds. Coolant in the active thermal control subsystem.

NASA website states that the minimun runway length required at abort site is 7500ft. Fine weather being preferable. :)

There has been only one known abort (STS 51-F). One main engine shut down about half way through ascent. Abort to Orbit was selected, and the mission continued.

And just for good measure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwfsFtpACFw
:ok:

[Razor61]

This website:- http://www.wstf.nasa.gov/WSSH/Default.htm
Shows pictures of the Gulfstreams rate of descent and also the Space Shuttle Columbia landing at the White Sands Space Harbor in 1982, where the pilots conduct the Gulfstream landing training.

[ORAC]

Shuttle Training Aircraft Approach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn5wXUENy4A) - gear down and engines in reverse thrust to give the correct descent/speed profile.

[The Flying Pram]

Thanks for the info guys, that video does confirm the view I saw!
TFP.