Not Another One...RAF Puma Down in Iraq

[Been There...]

RIP guys...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7105224.stm

[C_Cret]

Just seen this on the beeb...Rest In Peace guys & get well soon to the two chaps injured.

C

[November4]

MOD (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/TwoUkMilitaryPersonnelKilledInPumaHelicopterCrash.htm)

2 Killed, 2 Seriously injured.

RIP and thoughts with the families

[The Swinging Monkey]

Another dreadful day for both the SH force and the RAF as a whole, not to mention the families and friends.

RIP fellas, and a speedy recovery to those injured. God Bless you all.

TSM

[Bicontatto]

R.I.P. Guys

My thoughts are with the families & Friends.

[stickmonkeytamer]

Another sad loss...

RIP guys.

SMT

[Ginger Beer]

Words fail me....

RIP

[Tonkenna]

My thoughts with all involved... RIP
Tonks

[TEEEJ]

RIP and condolences to all involved. A speedy recovery to the injured.

TJ

[Squirrel 41]

Unsung and often un-noted, always been very impressed with the way the Pumas have done business out there.

Dreadful news - RIP guys. Speedy recovery to the injured.

S41

[neilmac]

Dreadful news, RIP guys, my thoughts with families and those injured

NM

[OpsMan38]

Thoughts as always to the families and colleagues of those involved.

RIP

[Occasional Aviator]

That terrible feeling again - thoughts with friends & families and wishing a full recovery to those injured. RIP guys, I know how dedicated you are.

[Tappers Dad]

My deepest sympathy and thoughts go out to the families & friends of those lost and injured.


May flights of angels sing thee to thy rest

[Rocket Chucker]

Extremely sad news indeed. Sincere condolences to the families and a speedy recovery to those injured.

RIP Fellas

Per Ardua

[The Helpful Stacker]

RIP chaps and wishing a speedy recovery to the injured.

[alexmac]

As has been said; that terrible feeling again seeing the subject header. Thoughts to everyone involved.
RIP

[cornish-stormrider]

RIP to all, I'm off to open another large whisky in memory of more mates, aquaintances and people I've never met.

When is this going to end?

[WASALOADIE]

Sincere Condolences to the families of those now departed and wishes for a speedy recovery to those who have been injured. No doubt a few glaases will be raised in your honour. I for one will be raising a glass or two at next weeks reunion. Best wishes to all SH mates out there at the moment.

[Jobza Guddun]

Sincerest comdolences to all concerned, and a speedy recovery to the injured.

RIP

[professor moriarty]

Another one, but not forgotten.

God rest their souls and I'll raise a glass tonight.

RIP

[SmilingKnifed]

RIP guys and a speedy recovery to those injured.
We seem to be doing this far too often nowadays.:(

[ORAC]

Torygraph: SAS men killed in Iraq as fourth Puma crashes

Two SAS soldiers were killed in a helicopter crash in Iraq yesterday raising safety questions over the RAF’s four decade old fleet of aircraft. The two troopers died after the Puma troop transporter went down in an urban area during a covert mission over Baghdad.

The soldiers were part of an anti-terrorist mission flying low over the city at night.

Two other men from 22 Special Air Service Regiment were seriously injured in the crash although their condition is not thought to be life threatening. A further seven SAS and three RAF survived the impact and were later rescued by Coalition forces.........

[R 21]

Tragic utterly tragic, RIP fellas

R 21

[Magnersdrinker]

RIP guys

Just terrible sad news again , I also feel for the Puma fleet as an ex serving member.Its been a sad year

[Mr Point]

Rest in peace - another tragic loss.

[ramp_up]

God Speed - RIP

[scientia in alto]

A great bunch of guys having a very hard time. My thoughts are with you all... RIP

SIA

[airborne_artist]

Two more names for the clock - inscribed below it is this:

We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
Always a little further; it may be
Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow
Across that angry or that glimmering sea...

[cooheed]

RIP guys. Another two who didn't 'beat the clock'. Condolences to families and friends.

[spanners123]

RIP guys. A tragic loss.
Hope those injured have a speedy recovery.

[Louie70]

My thoughts and love go out to the families of these brave guys....RIP x

[Brian Dixon]

Sincere condolences to all affected by this terrible incident.

God speed
Brian

[Guzlin Adnams]

RIP to you and God Speed. Best wishes to the injured.
Another terrible day.

[dangermouse]

as might be expected every time we hear a UK helo down those of us in the West country get worried

RIP chaps you are remembered and every one else get well soon

DM:(

[Rude C'man]

Go in peace brothers , my sympathy to all the families concerned.

[klingonbc]

Deepest sympathies to all those affected. RIP guys and a speedy recovery to those injured. klingonbc

[Chugalug2]

Rest in Peace lads. You manned the line for us all. Deepest condolences to your loved ones. May those who are injured get well soon.
Chug

[L J R]

As always, thoughts to those involved, and those who must deal with the disaster at home bases.

RIP

L J R

[ORAC]

Independent: Helicopter tragedy in Iraq raises fresh concern over RAF training (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article3194082.ece)

Military experts have expressed grave concerns over the training of helicopter pilots after the RAF lost its fourth Puma aircraft this year in a crash last week in Iraq.

The crash claimed the lives of two SAS servicemen. The Ministry of Defence said yesterday it would not be naming the men. An investigation is under way but The Independent on Sunday understands an early theory is that the helicopter crashed shortly after successfully evading fire.

Two machines collided in April north of Baghdad and another crashed during a training exercise in Catterick, North Yorkshire, in August, killing three. In July 2004, a Puma crashed while trying to land at Basra airport, killing the pilot.

Pumas entered service in 1971 and are described as "workhorses" used for ferrying troops and equipment and for low-flying, high-speed special forces missions. Operating in difficult desert conditions, they require regular servicing. At the end of October, Des Browne, the Secretary of State for Defence, admitted that one in three Pumas were not "fit for purpose".

Military sources have told the IoS that pilots are being provided with insufficient training.

One said: "The age of the aircraft doesn't matter. The basic aircraft is great. Soldiers love it because it has doors on both sides. It's a good solid workhorse. The issue, however, is training and the number of flying hours pilots have before being sent to Iraq."

An inquest into the death of Flt Lt Kristian Gover, who died in Basra in 2004, concluded that inadequate training was a key factor. The coroner, Andrew Walker, said: "The training of the crew was insufficient."

Comments on RAF online message boards later supported that view.

[jayteeto]

Like most aircraft flying today, the Puma has its vices and can bite you if you are not careful. I know journalists read this, so I will also be careful here in how I mention its own vices. First, I am not serving anymore and have NO knowledge of this tragic accident. There is no link, even though some papers have tried to connect some real rubbish to this one. The Puma has two 'gotchas' that are well known and can be overcome without scaremongering. It IS a safe aircraft when treated with respect. The first is engine response. If you make a sudden high power demand from an initial low setting, the engines take time to respond. The rotors can slow down quickly until this happens. Pilots are taught early on, how to avoid this. Unfortunately, this has caused a few accidents when they failed to take the correct action. The answer is to fit anticipators, which is very expensive. Governments do not do expensive, so awareness training has to suffice. The second vice is an aerodynamic one. Simplified (very), the Puma is top heavy and when you get it out of balance and then quickly move the pedals back in balance, it is possible to get the aircraft rolling at a very fast rate. This rate is more than the controls can counter and the helicopter can turn upside down and ultimately crash. Once again, a simple method of getting out of this situation is taught early in training. Sadly again, accidents have happened where people have not used this technique. So in summary, the Puma can bite, but it IS a safe (but demanding) helicopter to fly. I instructed on it for years and unless the basic training has changed, it highlights the dangerous points. Advanced training is another thing and I have no current knowledge about that. The age of the technology is totally irrelevant in my opinion.
RIP to these brave troops, I hope your families are not too distressed at reading the lies printed in some rags......:(

[teeteringhead]

Well and succinctly put JayTee

but I don't think it's basic handling training that's being questioned - and training seems to be totally irrelevant to this case.

Been out of country and comms for 10 days or so and have just come back to hear of this ... RIP to both - thoughts and prayers for NOKs, loved ones and survivors - and I'm off to raise a small glass...maybe a large one...

Too full already is the Grave
Of fellows that were good and brave
And died because they were....