Wrong Place I know but someone might know

[slatsandflaps]

Hi all,
Given all the recent hullabaloo in the "Professional forums" I had a question regarding something I have seen while flying in and out of Berlin schonefeld airport but decided that seen as it was A ) not a rumor B) not news and c) I’m not a professional, I decided that I would ask some more level headed people .
Any ways it seems that EL Al aircraft are proceeded to and from the runway with what looked like a police car in front and what seemed to be a armored car with a water cannon mounted on top following behind .
Yes I’m well aware of history and the like but I was wondering why in this day and age this is ..
Is there a specific reason for this or is it common everywhere .
found it quite unusual and on the flight back on Sunday it was commented by a few fellow SLF .
I have seen it a few times over the last few weeks and was simply wondering .
vielen danke
S&F

[Contacttower]

I may be way out on this one...in fact I think I almost certainly am but I think EL Al have always wanted to fit their aircraft with some sort of missile protection system (I don't know whether they actually have). There was some concern that such a system may deploy by accident on the ground and it could cause damage/injury to those around it. Being followed by a water cannon may have something to do with it.

[Kit d'Rection KG]

The airline you mention do lots of slightly unusual things to protect themselves against various threats. :suspect:

It might be best not to ask too many questions, nor pay too much heed to the answers you get here. :oh:

It's their business, and they get on with it remarkably well. :)

[chevvron]

At Nairobi way back in '78, I witnessed a large number of Kenyan Army personel arrive on the apron (after appearing to walk across the airfield - it was dark!) shortly before an El Al '747 arrived; when it parked they surrounded it in a defensive way ie rifles pointing away rather than towards.

[chiglet]

Seen El Al escorted at Amsterdam...and when they used to fly into Manch, we had Armed Policeman on the Tower Balcony, ditto on the top levels of car parks and a "co-ordinating" PC in the Tower, plus a couple of escort vehicles.
watp,iktch

[perkin]

I wonder why El Al deserves such special treatment over any other airline... :rolleyes:

Do they pay for this extra 'protection' I wonder, or is it the taxpayer of whatever country it is who shells out for this? Always extra armed patrols at AMS check-in area when there is an El Al departure...

[aeroplanejohn]

Some years ago the El Al crew operating from LHR travelled from their crew hotel in central London to LHR escorted by two red police cars who prevented all other motorists from overtaking this convoy. I don't know if this is still the case but perhaps this might have been the start of road rage by people being delayed en-route to their destination? The question still remains-Who pays for all this extra security?

[perkin]

Following on from my previous post, I have to chuckle at the non-political correctness of Schiphol management/ground control, as they invariably put an El Al departure at an adjacent gate to a couple of flights to Turkey... :D

[The AvgasDinosaur]

The question still remains-Who pays for all this extra security?
EL-AL and or the Israeli government. And quite a lot too.
Be lucky
David

[FHA]

Perkin: it's not like that between Israel and Turkey. Read up on it and you'll be surprised.
Ask one of the hundreds of thousands of Israelis who holiday in Turkey each year.

[perkin]

The main point I was trying to make was that the politically correct amongst us would perhaps attempt to keep these people apart, but thankfully there seems to be a grain of common sense in place at Schiphol, but perhaps I didnt make that entirely clear, sorry! :)

[chiglet]

Two "Blasts from the Past"....
Many years ago, [when El Al] had a scheduled service into Manch.....the El Al "Security Guards/Sky Marshals" were at the bottom of the steps....no airbridge then, and the Firemen drove past the a/c....on their "Birdscaring" run, popping away with their Very Pistols......next thing they know....several Uzis shoved through the windows....immediate brown undies :E
'tother one "Diversion Night"....I went down to the Airport to see Concorde, and took a mate....to take some photos, and nearly got arrested,"Security" Jobsworth [I had a valid pass]....but "Apron" had parked a Syrian Arab, Egypt Air, El Al and a Jordanian on adjacent gates.....in 1979[ish]
watp,iktch

[Rainboe]

Perkin
Following on from my previous post, I have to chuckle at the non-political correctness of Schiphol management/ground control, as they invariably put an El Al departure at an adjacent gate to a couple of flights to Turkey...
I think you have misjudged the situation. Try going to THY Airlines schedules. You will find that THY operate many flights to Tel Aviv, and they appear to be largely sold out! It is not that many countries where religious or political differences preclude exchange of commerce or industry. Even at the height of the Cold War, I was quite happy going to Moscow and Beijing, and Tel Aviv and Damascus and Karachi. People want to travel, and it's a sad reflection on humanity that that curse of humanity, religion, has such an effect on where you can travel freely. But there is no atmosphere, and never has been between Israel and Turkey.

[perkin]

As I mentioned in my second post, I wasnt intending to comment on relations between Turkey and Israel as such, more to do with the fact that some politically correct @rses would probably have a flap about such a situation, but, happily, the airport management doesnt give a hoot about it, apart from getting flights to the right place at the right time...just how it should be :)

Granted, I didn't necessarily quote a great example but you get my point :ok:

[Rainboe]

During the Falklands conflict in 1982, our BA 747s were sometimes parked next to Aerolineas Argentinas 747s. Not a big deal. It was an unfortunate political situation, but politics has no place in civil aviation....whatsoever.

[perkin]

Indeed! My point is exactly that the lack of politics and such like this is a good thing, I'm agreeing with you Rainboe!! :p

[Jidi]

Just trying to sort a few things out .. El-Al, unfortunaly, needs that extra security every day. I fly to Tel-Aviv at least 4-5 times every year from the day I was born and I am quite aware of the security that El-Al and Ben-Gurion Airport has and needs.

El-Al and Israeli gouverment pays for all this high security measures they took, El-Al being a state company. I am sure that if you ask every single passanger on El-Al flights, they are happy that they're paying for extra security and are not disturbed by the checks made at the airport and check-in. Every israeli understand the need of this level of security. Even that to a european might seem a little bit to much, most of the measures taken are necessary due to terrorist attacks. El-Al did not have any security incidents from day one and that's exactly why they are taking this measures. Israel is, unfortunaly, under permanent threat from different terrorist grups. Again, unfortunaly, lately this has spreaded to EU and US too, and as you can see every civilized state as US, EU or Israel are trying to prevent such incidents. Such measures are starting to be used in european airports as well, not talking about US who already implemented such measures.


There is no political issue between Turkey and Israel, citizens of both countries are traveling free between these countries. To give you another example of free travel, in Sharm-el-sheik is loaded with israelies every year, even that relations between Egypt and Israel haven't been always perfect.

Seems nothing can stop us to travel, huh? :)

[Rainboe]

AeroplaneJohnSome years ago the El Al crew operating from LHR travelled from their crew hotel in central London to LHR escorted by two red police cars who prevented all other motorists from overtaking this convoy. I don't know if this is still the case but perhaps this might have been the start of road rage by people being delayed en-route to their destination? The question still remains-Who pays for all this extra security?
I would hope our security system happily pays for guests on our soil to be protected from attack here when the need arises. There was a time when this was so. Have you forgotten that in our own Mayfair, such a terrorist incident took place against an airline crew, killing a young El Al stewardess:
Europa Hotel, Mayfair, August 1978 An El Al air hostess was killed and six fellow crew members injured in a gun and grenade attack, carried out by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), on a coach outside the hotel in Mayfair. One of the bombers also died.
Bit tasteless to quibble about who pays for such security? I have spent my working life staying in various hotels all over the world, sometimes in unfriendly countries. Who would you say was responsible for my safety? Should my airline have had to pay for special security, or do I have a right to expect the local security people to ensure my safety? Bad point you made.

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Yes but HMG hardly covered itself in glory when the had a grip of Leila Khaled did they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/uk_confidential/1090986.stm
Be lucky
David

[Kit d'Rection KG]

Many thanks for reminding me of one of the Teardrop Explodes' very best songs... :)

'Just like Leila Khaled said' :rolleyes:

Wilder (http://www.screamingsecrets.com/discography/tx_albums/html/a_5.html) :ok:

[slatsandflaps]

Thanks for the info guys, least that cleared it up .
S&F

[ReallyAnnoyed]

On your next flight out of SXF and an Iraeli airline is present, then try to gaze the skies as well, Slatsandflaps. A chopper flies around the airport as a security measure besides the armored escort :) When 25R is in use (the crappy, old runway that makes the takeoff run and landing bumpy) you will see that the Iraeli planes do not use taxiway K to the runway as the rest of us do, but enter 07L and backtrack to the beginning of 25R - presumeably to stay as far away from the perimeter fence as possible. Oh yes, you will also see mounted police on the grass when the israelis come to town.

[Geezers of Nazareth]

I can remember being on the viewing terrace at Koln-Bonn airport when we were all suddenly asked to leave by an armed Polizei. We packed everything away and headed for the stairs, where another armed Polizei said that we could all wait at the top of the stairs.

We waited for about 20 minutes, and were then let back onto the terrace; there had been only 1 arrival, an El-Al flight. As it was parked on the stand underneath us, the armed Polizei stayed on the terrace.

In fact, he was quite chatty and told us that it happened for all El-Al flights, and that we were not in any trouble. He also said that we would have to move away again when the flight departed.



A similar situation exists in Italy, at Rome at least. We were spotting, and were quite happy to see a Police AB.206 circling around the airport. Shortly after, the El-Al flight landed. Shortly after, the Police paid us a visit 9another story, another day!).