Nice one 1435 flt !

[Navaleye]

Just spotted this, apologies if its been posted before. I liked the ironing scene in the back of a Herc.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI-U3-9UO0w)

[BEagle]

56 'engineers'?

Surely only 1 or 2 qualified 'engineers', the rest being maintenance technicians?

At least they managed to miss all the masts this time!

But yes, a good video!

[c17age]

Strange that Beags always thought an engineer was someone who designed or built things. Not just the bloke who signs red, greens and changes the shift pattern just to get noticed. Yes us groundies are maint techs and nice to see you regard the lads so highly. TTFN:D

[danieloakworth]

I'd have said 55 engineers and one manager.

[spanners123]

c17age & danieloakworth :D

good vid!!

[BEagle]

OK - groundies are not maintenance androids, but neither are they, strictly speaking, 'engineers'...

56 folks to keep 4 F3s flying? Good work, whatever!

Was that cat a distant relative of old Trevor, the venerable 1312 Flt cat killed inhumanely by some of the groundcrew? Poor old soul was taken out into the bondhu and drowned by the bastards....they couldn't be arsed to arrnage for him to be put to sleep humanely.

Never did trust them after that....

[Dan Winterland]

Not such a nice one!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb73/dbchippy/A2A067.jpg

We had the dance troop for the FI show on board, 1435 thought they were missing out on the action. I can't verify the information they wanted to impart (although I doubt it's true!) but I do know they can't spell :hmm:

PS. We also had Bucks Fizz (the group, not the drink!) on board. But I'm not a fan. Honest!

[Navaleye]

OK - groundies are not maintenance androids, but neither are they, strictly speaking, 'engineers'...


If they worked in road haulage they would be called Fitters.

[Sospan]

Just like airframe drivers would be called truckies !:E

[Jobza Guddun]

Back on thread..

Good vid that, nice to see our guys getting in on the act!

[ranger703]

In the voice of Mr Burns(Simpsons)......Excerrrllennttt.

[flipflopman RB199]

A bit of a brash generalisation there BEags.

How about those 'Maintenance Technicians' who are Degree qualified engineers in their own right, or those who are "Licenced Aircraft Engineers" who also happen to be RAF 'Maintenance Technicians'. There are an awful lot of RAF groundies who are FAR better qualified than you give them credit for! If the CAA thinks of them as "Engineers" I'm afraid their comments carry a little more weight than yours!! ;)

Top vid by the way. :ok:

Brings back many happy memories, even some happy memories of that smelly, incontinent cat!!


Flipflopman

[vecvechookattack]

No, no....they have it wrong. The RAF is short of manpower, it is stretched beyod stretchiness. There are too many tasks and not enough people.... 1435 have got it wrong. It wasn't 56 maintainers for 4 aircraft, it couldn't possibly be. Can someone at 1435 please get that off t'internet in case a politician or journalist spots it and wonders why the RAF are so stretched and yet 1435 are overrun with people.

[Safety_Helmut]

Poor old soul was taken out into the bondhu and drowned by the bastards....they couldn't be arsed to arrnage for him to be put to sleep humanely.

Lucky it wasn't you beagle ! :E

[bayete]

I remember it well, any of the guys from that det out there got any more vid/pics they can send. Please PM me.
Seem to remember getting served a great dinner by the boys after they lost a bet with us.:}

[_Quiet_Mason]

Awesome video, really enjoyed it.

[maxburner]

Great video, I almost miss the place! A big hello to all the mates involved, especially Wiki who should know better at his age.

Anyone remember Bundhu?

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k106/davidhlewis/008_29A.jpg

[Rigga]

Ha, Ha!
All "Fast" pilots think that those "not-pilot's" around them, must be engineers or maintenance!

FlipFlopMan has it almost right.

Of the 56 "Engineers" on 1435, there would be mainly technicians some mechanics, some support staff such as a clerk and maybe a cook, and some 'engineers' and, finally, some officers who managed....what? There to fill a perceived Role rather than a real one, I believe.

When I was a shift boss on 78, the engineering "officer" was a WO-man (a complete knob), who did absolutely nothing! He had read books and passed courses on man-management, but had obviously never had to do it for real. He was a Fairy who came from the MU at Sealand!

Incidently, I was also a CAA "Licenced A&C Engineer" at that time, but employed as my name suggests, unable, as where many there, to use my qualifications.

I have since learned that I would have been better thought of in the Army, where there is at least some thoughts of using the capability of individuals rather then their qualifications as at Attestation!

Awaiting the incoming.....

[LateArmLive]

vecvec

Do you try hard to post something argumentative and controversial every time? Even if all 56 of the team are engineers, then 14 to each aircraft is not very much, especially when you're talking about 24hr ops. Maybe 14 engineers may be a little bit overkill on your cabs, but the Tonka is a complicated beast, and a bit of a pig to keep serviceable.

Stick to something you know about :mad:

[goudie]

As I recall, in aircraft trades, one was either a fitter (J/T and above) or a mechanic. Some of us did have other engineering qualifications such as HND, ONC C&Gs but they weren't Aircraft Maintenance qualifications. I agree with BEags, (now look what you've started) qualified Engineers design things and work out how to build them, then the rest of us maintain them. Engineer in many cases is a much overused title. Flight Engineers for instance don't exactly 'engineer' the flight.
Sorry for drift, video was awsome.

[Jobza Guddun]

Officers and aircrew are the only people who call techies "engineers". Therefore, if the term is applied wrong then it's their fault. As a techy, I have more important things to worry about quite frankly...

If that's a slight misnomer by the way, what about Suppliers...RAF Medics...:E

[airborne_artist]

Tonka is a complicated beast, and a bit of a pig to keep serviceable

Added to which, it's a long way to send for spares/tech support. Makes more sense to overman/over skill the 1435 team, than to LEAN it so much that you have, potentially, no aircraft serviceable just because you've saved a few bob.

You'll probably find you could run twice the airframes on far less than 2 x 56.

[ex fat repair team]

Copied from advert at bottom of page 2

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[Roger the cabin boy]

Ah the Falklands - Happy days! Great vid too. I was lucky enough to get a backseater in an F3 down there once - without doubt the most awesome thing I've ever done in my life - makes ramp-riding seem a bit tame! (unless you're naked:))

[GeeRam]

I agree with BEags, (now look what you've started) qualified Engineers design things and work out how to build them, then the rest of us maintain them.

:D

Engineer in many cases is a much overused title.

How true.

There's also a big difference between Engineer and engineer.....:ok:

[FHA]

Wonder if that little moggie p#sses in the immersion suits, like it's ancestor (c.1992) used to?!

P.S. We never called ourselves "engineers", just techies or linies. Damn proud of it too.

P.P.S. After 4 years of studying (using most of my spare time/leave) and a PVR, I still do the same job. I also do the Mech's/Chief's and EngO's job simultaneously. NOW I call myself an engineer. (Apologies for thread creep contribution, but there's a little of bit of right in what everyone has said; Beags wasn't being disrespectful).

[FHA]

Just noticed another thread link below! Do you mean the little bugger in the vid was the same one from the F4 days? :eek:
I thought one of the Aircrew would have shot him ages ago!!

[12 twists per inch]

56 Engineers?

You should see how many they have in the Deid to get 2 flying daily. More than double that, unlike the 'very few' for the funbus. fast jets easy life;)

[Jobza Guddun]

2 flying daily? What planet are you on then tanker w****r? :E:ok:

[12 twists per inch]

Ooops sorry, ones the norm! Need all shifts in for two. :rolleyes: :p

[TEEEJ]

Great vid. I've had it in my favs for a while now on You Tube.

[GreenKnight121]

1. sanitation engineer: formerly “garbage collector”
Daddy when I grow up to be a man I want to be a sanitation engineer so I can pick up garbage.




Call things what you want, but PC-created "self-esteem boosting titles" are everywhere... and just as silly as the above example.


I spent 8 years in the USMC fixing the FLIR/Laser systems on A-6Es and later F/A-18As. I had electronics engineering classes at university before entering active duty, and more high-level electronics training in the service... and I was always called (and called myself) an "Avionics Technician"... or a "Maintenance Technician".


I definitely was NOT an "engineer"... in either sense of the word: one who designs and creates... or one who operates an engine (rail locomotive or aircraft powerplant).

[euringineer]

I completed a traditional 5 year apprenticeship and graduated as an engineer trained for life.On the path to retirement i obviously passed many type ratings and manufacturers courses.I joined my professional society and also had my quals noted at the Engineering Council.I know i am an Engineer and i have never been in any doubt as to what i am or what i can call myself.It is those who call themselves what they are not.Americans have always been confused,they call for a mechanic when he is actually an engineer.We say A&C,THEY SAY A&P,we say tomato they say etc.Unless you have the Theory quals backed up by the practical experience and are legally qualified by licence be careful how you address yourself.The confusion really reigns when designers are included.Designers design a machine with no thought on how to maintain it.We Engineers spend our time devising maintenance procedures for their designs.Hope you all understand now and will in future respect those who maintain and sign their life away for your safety.

[Jetex Jim]

Different definitions of engineer exist,

“... we are inclined to forget that for many hundred of years science and engineering went their separate ways as if neither had anything to contribute to, or learn from, the other. From earliest times engineers were proud and independent craftsmen who were guided in their work not by scientific theories but by common sense and by practical rules gleaned from experience. (Cf. Florman, Samuel C. Engineering and the liberal arts, New York 1968).


That sounds like a Liney to me..

And perhaps Scotty on the Enterprise should be referred to as the Chief Maintainer?

[goudie]

The Wright Bros., Brunel, Stephenson et al were Engineers.
People who service and maintain aircraft, (the duties of a 'liney', I know, I did it) automobiles, computors, etc. are very skilled technicians/fitters/mechanics.
Engineers they ain't!

[LateArmLive]

All points taken, but please - let's not try and overcomplicate things. Since day 1 of me joining this rabble the people who fix, maintain and look after aircraft have been engineers. It's been a lot more easy to call them that than by their specific job title.
If they were all referred to individually as techies/maintainers/linies then an engineers beer call would be a very quiet affair (and that's never been the case in my experience :\)

Regards to all our groundcrew everywhere - we love you :D

p.s. Nice video. Different from the usual footage of things going back to rock music.

[BEagle]

'Techies', 'oilies', 'sooties', 'fairies', 'groundcrew' - or whatever. The essential folk who keep the RAF's ageing museum pieces flying without too many bits falling off.

Indeed, highly regarded. Cat murderers excluded.

Only 'engineers' were BEngO (who hated being called that - so the name stuck!), JEngO and SEngO. Plus the mysterious OCEng who, (with the exception of the excellent 'Dolly' P**t*n) merely seemed to exist to provide the grit in the bearings of smoothly running squadrons.

[LateArmLive]

Ah, but we don't have OCEng anymore. Just OC Depth, or is it Forward, or Shallow. Does anyone know what these titles mean?:confused:

[ricardian]

If they worked in road haulage they would be called Fitters.

Oh for the days when a mechanic, who was already highly skilled, might become a Fitter II after further training and, after a LOT more training, might just become a Fitter I (aka demi-god).
--
Bruce Fletcher
Stronsay, Orkney (http://www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont)

[Tempsford]

Strange World isn't it. Today (according to some) you have to have a degree to be called an Engineer. You don't have to be able to do the job, but you do have to have have a degree.
Then there was Orville and Wilbur, Stephenson, Brunell, well they didn't have degrees, but they did rather well inspite of that lacking in their 'education'.
I know of a person who has just obtained his EASA B1 Licence, he did 2 years at College doing his BTEC, a 4 year Apprenticeship and has worked, without any assistance from tutors etc for the past three years to pass his B1. An excellent achievement? You bet! I met him in the hangar the other day and asked him what he had been doing over the past few days. He had replaced a CF6 Engine and a number of flying controls. After installation he had carried out rigging and function checks. On top of that he had also done a complex skin repair. On top of that he is supervising a Team of Engineers and mentoring a number of less experienced staff. He is 23 years old. He has worked a sight harder than many university students to get where he is, he appreciates his position because he has worked so hard to get there. He is most certainly an Aircraft Engineer.
I have been in Civil Aviation for 35 years and have met one ex RAF Engineering Officer who has worked as a manager on the shop floor.
The only Degree holders apart from the Kingston graduates that I have met have not been hands on. Few of the Aircraft Maintenance Managers I have met have had a degree and many don't have an EASA Licence. On that basis, Civil Aviation industry Aircraft Maintenance in the UK is being run by a bunch of fitters.
Temps

[Magnersdrinker]

Ah, but we don't have OCEng anymore. Just OC Depth, or is it Forward, or Shallow. Does anyone know what these titles mean?:confused:


LOL , so very true , im sure they have an officer in RAF HQ that renames these posts every year, must cost thousands!! Just think of all the name plaques that worshops have to remake. im sure its the same guy that renames sections as well just to piss everyone off !!

[Jobza Guddun]

Nah,

One Groupie to rename posts, another to rename sections, and another to order phone numbers changed, to complete the chaos!

Beags, loved the line about grit in the bearings of a smoothly running sqn!! Must borrow that at our next soiree if I may?!!

[L Peacock]

Beags

Expertly done as always. No maggot required:D

[Pontious]

Bloody well done! That was superb!
:ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Is Dick the cat a descendant of Krusty the cat? that vicious bugger the Met wallahs had at the turn of the Century?

Temporary spotter mode; has 1435 acquired 23's roundel bracket bars and 41's fin tip stripes?

Ace vid but, as the man said, not a mast in sight (sorry Elvis)!

[gblackbeard]

Love the ironing! And the XBox controller!
Great Vid

[TheInquisitor]

I remember it well, any of the guys from that det out there got any more vid/pics they can send. Please PM me.
Seem to remember getting served a great dinner by the boys after they lost a bet with us.
Yes, top vid - have an original copy. Good det too.
I DID suggest the loadie tie everything down before opening the back end...you might notice the p-strops holding the ironing board to the ramp...and lots of paracord...

How are things in the real world?

[bayete]

Inquisitor,
I was waiting for someone to complain about the dangers of ironing in Albert, I know that even the shirt was tied in.
Re: the real world looks good so far, start conversion soon, so losts of pre-study to do :{

[Gainesy]

Didn't the caption mean the engineers, techies, fitters, mechs etc were from 56, aka the Oven Ready Chicken mob?:)

[8-15fromOdium]

Beagle: Only 'engineers' were BEngO (who hated being called that - so the name stuck!), JEngO and SEngO. Plus the mysterious OCEng who, (with the exception of the excellent 'Dolly' P**t*n) merely seemed to exist to provide the grit in the bearings of smoothly running squadrons.

You are surely talking about the Admin (Eng) Branch. I have been a liney/techie and gloried in the job title of Engineering Technician for 12 years prior to commissioning. I have, however, always marvelled at the way in which the Admin (Eng) Branch officers manage to get the most simple things wrong despite having a massive pool of knowledgable and experienced personnel to learn from.

On the subject of 1435s' Eng manning, from my time on 78, I seem to remember that you need a minimum level to ensure ground defence, something to do with CONOP's and other stuff that LEAN routinely fails to take into account.

'Do not apply just in time rules to just in case organisations'

Great vid BTW

[monkeybumhead]

I was there when said ironing incident occurred. Lucky they didn't want to film when I decided to play golf off the ramp, might have had some fod implications. Now I remember the moggie, heli trip to vets in Stanley followed by military funeral with flypast (including fat boy albert).

[12 twists per inch]

...with loadie giving a salute on the ramp as WO 1312 Flt played a lament on the bagpipes and the Padre said a few 'touching' words! :D

[Navaleye]

Mogwi,

I think we would all appreciate your impression of how it went if that's Ok with you.

Regards

Navaleye

[MrBernoulli]

All the usual Fiery Cross hooliganism ................

[bayete]

Measels at Alice..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6zmTaahQAs
For F3 see 0:26, 1:18, 2:44.
For C130 see 1:38.
For Brintel see 2:29.

I especially like the C130 dissapearing below the mount.