PVR Times

[Firey-X]

Apologies if this has been asked before but, does any one know (not rumours please) of anyone getting out earlier than 12 months on PVR?

A prospective new employer has asked how quickly I can leave. I would ask PMA but want some facts first in case I need to fight my cause. I’d be looking for 6 months (ie effectively 2 months once resettlement, terminal leave etc is taken into account).

I am Sqn Ldr Aircrew, and have amortized everything. I am older than 38 but less than 50. All help gratefully received.

[Miserable Old Git]

I PVR’d a couple of months ago and was told that I would have to wait 6 months. I’m a PA Flt Lt (GD P); I don’t know if that helps

MOG

[Firey-X]

Thanks MOG.

Does that include your resettlement etc?

Are you in a flying post at the mo?

[Milarity]

Firey, check your PMs. M.

[Firey-X]

Thanks M.

All good gen and will contact PMA. My offer is not defence related however, but will give it a go.

Cheers

[Banana Boy]

Sorry to jump in on this thread, but I have a genuine interest. If going to a defence related job, is there a get out of jail earlier clause? It may be just what I need to know.

[Miserable Old Git]

F X,

The 6 month period includes:

28 days terminal leave
7 weeks resettlement leave (if you've done the time)
Any annual leave you have left to take

I’ve used my resettlement leave for courses and have none left. I have an exit date in mid June and with the above in mind, it means I’ll stop working at the beginning of May. I am told that if I have a solid job offer, the last few weeks are negotiable.

Oh, you’re allowed to start a new job once the terminal leave kicks in.

MOG

[120class]

You may also work during the Annual Leave portion. Additionally you can do a civilian work attachment (unpaid in theory) as resettlement training during which time the RAF will pay your T&S (assuming no convenient Mess accomodation).

Enjoy

Cheers

[L1A2 discharged]

MOG,
28 days terminal leave
7 weeks resettlement leave (if you've done the time)
Any annual leave you have left to take
20 working days terminal leave
35 working days Graduated Resettlement Time (GRT) (Subject to time already served) - its NOT leave. It is preparatory time for the transition to civilian life.
Up to 49 Nights T&S - allows for weekends around the GRT.
Don't forget to factor in the next leave year, If you are into a month it generates between 1 - 3 days depending how far into the month your exit date is.
Also don't forget any bank holidays within your time frame.
Check, and claim, all your allowances - they are not much in todays training world but they do contribute.
Plan your resettlement strategy. The old maxim "Failing to plan is planning to fail" applies moreso in the days of JPA.
Get in touch with your area resettlement staff - they are helpful and approachable.
Be well, live long and prosper :ok:

[Firey-X]

BB,

From this thread and other stuff I remember, if you can prove that the job you are going to is defence related, then the world is your oyster as far as PVR is concerned. I have heard rumours of almost immediate release if your boss says they can cope without you, you can demonstrate the job is defence related and your new employer requests an early release.

As Milarity has advised me, the staff at PMA will help you on this. Give them a call. They are not all bad.

No mention of European Law yet, but I'm sure it applies to us as anyone else......if not adhered to, the RAF lawyers are reluctant to defend any litigation against it. Purely hearsay that one!

Firey-X

[L J R]

Firey, which job is available at the moment where your boss will say that the squadron can do without you?... Womens Aux Balloon Brigade?

Entitlements are entitlements, and we should all press hard to get them, but getting the powers that be to give you the entitled time off is the challenge.

[84nomore]

I managed to go in 6 months on PVR (Engineer - 40) however, PMA stated minimum 12 months. Had to get a letter from chain of command stating that they could run light without me (obviously irreplaceable then!). Also, had firm written job offer, which was a PMA requirement to even consider it. Once that was sorted, PMA couldn't be more helpful. PVR'd in Mar, took off uniform in Jun, started new job at start of Sept, out by end Sept.

Have heard many instances of chain of command not being so understanding though and guys have lost good job offers because they could not get out quick enough. It would be interesting to know of individuals challenging the system and succeeding, as there are a few people I know of who are in similar situation and not being fully supported.

[threepointonefour]

From reading the thread title I thought this was going to be the launch of a new periodical ....?!!

:ok::ok:

[Green Bottle 2]

Firey X,

I don't think the European Law will help on this one at the moment. You cannot compare standard employment rules to our situation - when we choose to work for the Crown, they have you by the short and curlies. Essentially you are not in a contract - the Crown can at any time change the terms and conditions and you have no recourse - you can't even leave if they want to keep you. As it is, in the interests of fair play Her Majesty graciously allows you to leave within the term and conditions that have been set - essentially a covenant between HM and the Mil.

The fundamental difference between ordinary jobs is that they cannot force you to work even if you have contracted to do a job; an employer could sue for breach of contract and you may have to pay damages, but he cannot use the law to force you to do the job. The military on the other hand can force you to work and chuck you in jail if you don't comply. They can do this legally as we are not employees, but Crown Servants.

Looking to European Law, there is a case going through at the moment relating to the employment status of a police force in, I think, a Scandinavian country. It could set a precedent for all public servants across the EU including the UK military. I can't remember the exact details.

All of the above came from a Lawyer who is expert in mil law.

GB2

[Banana Boy]

Firey and Others,

Thanks for the good snippets on this thread. I will post any positive experience from PMA regarding early release....if I get out!

BB

[Chicken Leg]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I have a further question.

If the civilian job you were offered required you to go to say, a ME conflict zone/country, can the firm stop you from doing that during your Terminal leave/resettlement etc as you are still technically a member of HMF?

Hypothetically of course!

[BEagle]

Saved up my annual leave, read the AP, did some sums, then PVR'd.

After adding up all the public holidays, resettlement time, terminal leave etc, my PVR application went in and I was paid until 8 Aug. I even made sure that I turned up for work between Christmas and New Year (even though I sat around doing nothing) - all to maximise leave time carry-over. Also, don't forget that the Apr-May period is another source of extra free paid days, due to all the bank holidays etc!

Last day in uniform was 10 Apr; my 'approval to conduct part-time, off-duty civilian employment' was already valid until 3 Sep. So, as I had plenty of 'off-duty' time from 11 Apr - 7 Jul (after which I could, if I'd wanted, take full-time employment), it was a nice little earner!

Don't forget to include the day for your release medical and the day for the resettlement brief in your calculations - and it might be worth waiting until just after the new pay scales come in before PVR-ing

Research your entitlement, keep some leave to carry over into the next leave year, then get a year planner and a cup of coffee and count backwards from the release date to establish the happy day when you can throw your gas mask at the stores basher!

[Pontius Navigator]

If the civilian job you were offered . . . can the firm stop you from doing that during your Terminal leave/resettlement etc

1. No
2. Yes

Resettlement is training. You could do 'unpaid' work experience in this civilian job. You will be entitled to UK subsistence during your resettlement even if it is not in UK - mine was in India. You will also be paid travel to/from the job or airport in my case. If you were offered pay you would of course turn it down, wouldn't you?

Terminal leave is me time and you can do as you wish.

[4mastacker]

Firey X

When I was into my last eight months service I was offered a a position with a civvy company. With all my accumulated annual (including public holidays), resettlement and terminal, it meant I would be out just within three months of my original release date and it would not affect my pension. I applied under QR whatever to be released early. I spent my accumulated annual and resettlement leave with the company under the cover of a 'zero hours contract' - i.e. "unpaid". Once my terminal leave started, I was taken on under a formal contract and the company starting paying me officially... couldn't escape the b:mad:y taxman though! My handbrake house didn't pay me any daily travel costs for the period of my terminal leave due to some rule I'm sure the scribblys keep somewhere safe. The first line of BEagle's post says it all. Hope that helps.

[ratpackgreenslug]

PVR? Your country needs you, therefore stay where you volunteered to be. After-all, you freely took the training didn't you?

Do you think those of us in the left seat of the civilian world welcome your entry into the seat on the right? If so, you're wrong. Do please stay where you are, which is where you truly belong.

You made your bed, now sleep in it. Perhaps life didn't pay off, and you were consigned to the U cubed harrier or the not very mighty hunter. So be it, live with it; too bad. Tossers.

[Wader2]

Wonder who has been rattling cages today?:sad:

[moggi]

We don't owe the Armed Forces anything - once one has amortized training costs, we have every right to vote with out feet. I think we all know who is the tosser 'round here. Sorry to come to down to your level - but it needs to be said.

[moggi]

I see that Ratpackgreenslug's other posts are full of similar vitriol. Sounds like the kind of Captain who would make a 2 hour sector feel like 2 days. Hope the two-bit airline that employs him goes bust....

ahhh... that feels better...

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Moggi,

If you read all of Ratboy's post's it makes the statement :-

"you can take the man out of the army but never take the army out of the man"

so much easier to understand :ugh:

[MrBernoulli]

Nah, fatpackgreenslag isn't a pilot at all! He stacks shelves in a supermarket near Aldershot. Saw him there - big fat bastard who smokes and reads comics.:p

[BEagle]

MrB, that is way too generous....

He doesn't read the comics, he merely looks at the pictures contained therein....

And tries to work out what's going on - as the furrowed brow and gaping expression both prove.

[Op_Twenty]

One day I might get to meet that chap when I'm in the left hand seat, that'll be an interesting 2 hours...

Interestingly whilst reading his post a quote came to mind:

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

'Nuff said, let's get back on topic chaps, let him drive his bus...

[Melchett01]

I see that Ratpackgreenslug's other posts are full of similar vitriol. Sounds like the kind of Captain who would make a 2 hour sector feel like 2 days. Hope the two-bit airline that employs him goes bust....

Naaah. Sounds more like the sort of captain that always dreampt of flying Concorde or heavies on one of the more 'glamorous' routes. But instead ended up flying a Jetstream out of Benbecula or a cargo plane full of rubber dog **** out of Hong Kong.

[Adam Nams]

ratpackgreenslug
Do you think those of us in the left seat of the civilian world welcome your entry into the seat on the right? If so, you're wrong. Do please stay where you are, which is where you truly belong.

You made your bed, now sleep in it. Perhaps life didn't pay off, and you were consigned to the U cubed harrier or the not very mighty hunter. So be it, live with it; too bad. Tossers.

I think that you need some urgent CRM training with an attitude like that.

A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

You Sir, are most definitely NOT.

[Adam Nams]

.............. by the way, had to do the full 18 months, but I am aware of one individual who managed to get out in a matter of weeks as it was in the "service's interest" that he took the job that was offered to him in civi street. The 'working during annual and termianal leave' can be a potential minefield, but all it takes is a trip down to P1 for the approriate form.

Also, have a word with your boss - if you can get him to agree to gap your post then that adds strength to your case. :ok:

The best advice I can give to anyone who is contemplating leaving is to look after your leave - save and carry over as much as you can, especially if you self-authorise. ;)

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

ratpack

now that's not very sympathetic, is it?

have a thought to when you started flying in the RH seat.
odds are that the person in the LH seat who weaned you out of nappies may himself have been ex-mil, or when he started in the RH seat when you were but a glimmer in the eye of your parents, he was himself being trained by someone who was ex-mil.

and if the appeal to the intelligent side of your brain doesn't work, then I have an alternative suggestion for you......

[3 bladed beast]

I'm a little confused here!

If I wanted to leave, having done 10 years now, i think I would employ a good lawyer to have a look at my 'contract' and see what I am obliged to do.

If you wanted to leave your job desperately in civvy world, they would want you to leave, as often a disgruntled employee can cause more harm than good in the workplace and to the business.

Why is it, in the case of aircrew, we insist on them staying for so long, and also cut their pay?? (yes, I know its technically a retention pay)

[Wrathmonk]

3 Blades

I would imagine it would have something to do with the time it takes to train a replacement from scratch / desk job (not from IOT of course, but OCU and CR workup). Unlike in the real (aviation) world where you apply for a job already with the correct training and qualifications.

On a side issue, the financial element of your training is covered by "amaltization" (sp?) whereby you can't leave until 'x' years after completion of OCU / convex. Just out of curiosity, anyone know how long cadet pilots who are trained from (almost) scratch by airlines such as BA (if the scheme still exists) are bonded to that airline?

[OHP 15M]

At this rate, HMG will have to re-introduce compulsory National Service !

[snapper41]

Wrathmonk:

That would be 'amortisation'.

[Wrathmonk]

Snapper

Fanx!

Cue BEags .....

[3 bladed beast]

Wrathmonk

Yes, thats what I presumed as well! However the major flaw with your statement is that you suppose there is a plan in place to replace people!! I thought we went in 'peaks and troughs' hence why the multis fleet (amongst others!) is short now, but the training system is absolutely chocker block (15 month + holds from EFT!)

Anyway, still feling highly motivated!!!

[Chicken Leg]

Pontius,

You have a PM.

[Aerospace101]

Question: What is PVR and how does it work?

[Pontius Navigator]

Question: What is PVR and how does it work?

If you don't know you probably don't need to know.

It is something that lots of people want to do if they can afford to leave Betty's employ.