PDA

View Full Version : Where can I find the definition of FAR 23 aircraft (JAA conversions)


Airline Pirate
7th Nov 2007, 22:36
Hello all,
Just trying to wade my way through the morass known as LAZORS/JAA...
I have been trying to find the legal definition of FAR 23 aircraft ( I have time on PA-31 Navejo and DHC-6 Twin Otter)
also, I am unfamiliar with how type ratings work under JAA. On the PA31's and DHC-6, we have to do PPC's on the aircraft as the are mult-crew aircraft (no autopilot).
In Canada, these aircraft do require a type rating at they are not considered "high performance" aircraft. I was told by someone that all a/c that require a PPC in Canada are a/c you need a type rating on in Europe.

EDIT: under LAZORS LAS Section F; the Twin Otter DHC-6 give you a DHC6 licence endorsement-is this the same as a type rating?

Would love to clear all these issues up.
Thanks
here is the LAZORS spiel:
To convert from a ICAO Airline Transport Pilot to a JAA Airline
Transport Pilots Licence
Option 1
*
Hold 1500hrs of which 500hrs is in FAR25 or FAR23 certified multi crew aircraft, of which you need 250hrs in any aircraft type as PIC or 100 PIC under supervision
*
Hold a medical class 1 JAA
*
Pass ALL 14 ATPL exams
*
Undertake training as recommended by a Approved schools Chief Ground Instructor (in other words you can do it quickly or over a long time, you have no requirement to sit through the 770 hr long course)
*
Undertake a type rating course at a JAA approved training provider
*
Complete a ATPL skills test with a United Kingdom CAA examiner
So in summary you can do it this way to get rid of the 770hr classroom requirement if you have the experience and do the type rating and flight test on a FAR25 or 23 type aircraft.
Option 2
If you hold 500 hrs multi crew experience on a FAR 25 /23 type, hold a type rating on that type, and will be doing your ATPL skills test on that type you are exempt from the Type rating course and doing any type of training for the ground examinations, you can simply just enter and sit them without any help, then go and do the skills test.
Option 3
Special terms for Pilots meeting the experience criteria below * have been agreed as an interim measure for the grant of the above licence until the Joint Aviation Authority have agreed appropriate new conversion terms.

BestAviation
8th Nov 2007, 16:41
Hello,

you can find the complete definition of FAR 23 here http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=ed5745294400fa477c1c546c53ea6b69&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14cfr23_main_02.tpl

But in general a FAR 23 aircraft covers all light (less than 12,500 lbs) single and twin prop airplanes. Generally they all only require a single crew if operated under FAR 91.

The keyword in the LASOR is "multi crew". There are aircrafts that are certified for single crew operations under their type certificate but for one reason or another has to be operated as multi-crew. Commercial operations (hence operating restrictions under FAR 135 or FAR 121 require 2 crew members) or insurance (cheaper if you require two pilots) count as multi-crew experience. It is my understanding that this also counts towards the multi-crew 500 hours required to release the JAA ATPL (anyone care to elaborate further on this one?)

JAA has a bunch of aircrafts not requiring a type rating, but that carries a license endorsement. To view the complete JAA classification or airplanes visit this link - http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/classtyperatings.html

That should cover what requires type rating and what requires single/multi crew. JAR 23/25 follow FAR 23/25......

Airline Pirate
10th Nov 2007, 09:02
THANK YOU!
I have been looking for a concrete statement upon this as I fly a Twin Turbo-Prop that considered single pilot according to lasors... but here in Canada we have no autopilot on the a/c and so it requires two crew in the AOC and and operating under CARS 704 commuter regs as well...

redsnail
10th Nov 2007, 09:47
I had my Twin Otter and Bandeirante time counted for multicrew even though they are certified as single pilot.

In Oz (that's where I flew them) if you need to have 2 pilots to comply with the law (Civil Aviation Orders) then the CAA will allow that time. However, what you must do to keep the CAA happy is supply them with a letter from your company on letter head paper stating that you've been operation the aircraft under CAO xyz and you've been employed by them since X to Y and you gained this many hours.

BestAviation
10th Nov 2007, 21:07
LASORS Sub-part G 1.2(a) reads

"500 hours Multi-Pilot operations on aeroplanes
type certificated in accordance with the JAR/
FAR-25 Transport Category or the JAR/FAR-23
Commuter Category or equivalent code, or
single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots
according to operational requirements."

Now.....LASORS is not the actual rules but is based on the Air Navigation Order and offers the law in a readable/digestable format.

Pretty straight forward then - if your single-pilot airplane is operated as multi-crew because operational requirements dictate so....then you're hours count towards your ATPL. Simple as that.