Whoops - the car is out of the bag.. 2!!

[Al R]

MoD nosh bill exposed. Nice work, if you can get it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,,2204531,00.html

I wonder how the RAF and RN bills compare?

[Mr C Hinecap]

Do you have a point here? I note the other departments could not break down the figures within their remit - which is suspect in itself. I'd say this level of the military is more politics than military - so the generals are doing political business. Without greater breakdown eg numbers attending, what the figures quoted covered etc, then there is a bit of a non-story there.

[Mr C Hinecap]

I'd say this is a bigger story - the increase PAX are putting on their premiums to cover shortfalls:

We'll pay ther shortfall Mr Prime Minister (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2801051.ece)

Comments on this please AI R?

[Jimlad1]

shock horror, forces officers host official dinners for lots of people? How is this news exactly?

[Pontius Navigator]

Drinks for the last two lunches were £90 and £125.60.

B:mad:y expensive soda water.

[Al R]

Mr Hinecap,

£10 million in 2 years???

The politik argument doesn't wash. If someone called Harriet Harman can make do with 25% of what Dannett, should I assume she has nothing then, to do with politics?

And are lunches with the private secretary to Princes William and Harry, with the chief constable of Hampshire, Sir Max Hastings etc etc.. all critical to the Defence of the Realm?

[vecvechookattack]

How come the head of the armed forces is allowed to accept invitations to Wimbledon and the Chelsea flower show......


"Top generals have been entertaining each other on a scale that makes Sir John Bourn look frugal. There needs to be an urgent review of entertainment undertaken by generals who seem to be able to live like Edwardian gentlemen."

Its no blomin wonder our kit doesn't work..... they have spent the money on lunch....

[Lamenting Navigator]

Yessss, but pray tell me how much are the diplomats' dinner bills? And how much do state visits cost these days? The media have admitted it's been a bit of a quiet time for them...

[Al R]

Ah. 17 wrongs do make a right then.

Phew. Close one. I thought we were in a pickle there for a moment.

[Melchett01]

I don't think the Top Brass have been taking the core menu options at meal times!

Looking at the costs for MOD Top Brass dinners over the past 2 years, and linking it in to the other story about Pax going up to 1K, the total spent on food would provide almost 10,000 service personnel with life insurance in the event of Pax putting their rates up.

That would be almost every one currently serving in Iraq or Afghanistan covered in the event of the worst happening. But I guess dinner with Grauniad columnists is more important.

[Bob Viking]

I am not a General and maybe I've wasted too much of my hard-earned cash on food during my time in the RAF but:

Sir Freddie's bills include £159.75 for a dinner to host the private secretary to Princes William and Harry; £131.91 for a dinner for the chief constable of Hampshire to enhance relations and " best working practices"; and £113.10 on a dinner with, among others, Guardian columnist Sir Max Hastings and General Sir Mike Jackson.

Sir Redmond's entertaining included £246 on a formal dinner for military and civilian personnel in Northern Ireland to encourage "unit cohesiveness" and £609 on a formal lunch to foster better relations with the community.

None of these sound like particularly outlandish sums of money for a good feed.

Are you suggesting that our Lords and Masters should be entertaining at cheaper establishments. I'm sure the foreign dignitaries would be more than chuffed with a Happy Meal or a Family Bucket from the good Colonel!

I realise the total spent sounds like a lot of cash but maybe, just maybe, there was a good reason for entertaining such people!
BV:)
PS, Sir, next time you're off out to lunch, can I come. I promise I'll only have a main. And one Glass of wine!:O

[Al R]

You said it. A 'good feed'. I can see why we sometimes have to host the bally frog in a nice place, but that still doesn't justify it, and if its in the natioonal interest, let the g'ment pay for it. But lets turn this around 360 for a moment. If our brass went overseas, are you saying they would need to be fed and dined in spleandour to do what they went there to be done? Sorry, its just one mutiually back scratching gravy train perpetuated only by those who stand to gain from it. I would like to see a general who said 'Bonjour mon general. Viola! Avez vous tried le compo, as mangez avec beaucoup happiness by mes soldats?'.

I'm not suggesting a Happy Bucket, but I am suggesting that collectively, the trough feeding is an offence to the men our brass is supposed to be serving and the arguement that all these bigwigs need to serve each other in spleandour is bollocks. As to feeding the Private Secretary of Bill and Harry and plod, come on!! Aren't we all supposed to be on the same side? If its so important to the CC of Hants that he feeds well in order for his brain to function, then they should have gone Dutch. Its absurd to think that what they need to chat about can't be achieved in far more modest circumstances.

If the brass whines about shortcomings inflicted by the g'ment one minute, then surely its not too much for them to set an example?

[South Bound]

"There needs to be an urgent review of entertainment undertaken by generals who seem to be able to live like Edwardian gentlemen."

And why should modern officers not want to live a gentleman's life??? I agree with Bob Vking,none of these figures seems outlandish. If our generals are required to host foreign dignatories and business/community leaders then they need to be able to buy lunch.

Personally, I always used to find turning down hospitality a little bit embarrassing (as required by policy), but worse was the inability to reciprocate unless it was from my own pocket.

[Al R]

Southbound,

Of course they can lead it, at their expense if they want to. But at ours? And I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't buy lunch (it oils the wheels after all), but £10 million?? :eek:

They need to take a lesson from Wellington. Perhaps our brass has forgotten what they're there for too?

"We have enumerated our saddles, bridles, tem=nts and tent poles. and all manner of sundry items for which His Majesty's government holds me accountable.. Unfortunately, the sum of one shilling and ninepence remains unnaccounted for in one infantry battalion's petty cash and there has been a hideous confusion as to the number of jars of raspberry jam issued to one cavalry regiment. This brings me to my present purpose, which is to request elucidation of my instructions. Am I 1) to train an army of uniformed British clerks for the benefit of the accountant and copy boys in London, or, perchance, 2) to see to it that the forces of Napoleon are driven out of Spain?"

[South Bound]

So the real argument is who pays. There is no problem with the bill, just a pain that it comes out of the MoD's share???? Agreed

[Al R]

Thats a different argument! I don't mind anyone else paying for lunch, but of course, there's no such thing.. as a free lunch.

Its a culture thing. I'm not altogether sure that it serves much real purpose, other than the chance for those at the top to enjoy the trappings they once aspired to, and were indoctrinated in as an inducement to succeed. After all, can you see things grinding to a halt because the brass were petulant about not having fine wine? If Harriett Harmen (who is spectacularly useless in her own unique way) can get by on 5k a year, why can't CDS? He is I believe, a Christian who told us how we need to prepare for the afterlife, so a modest and frugal lifestyle will probably be good for his soul too, as well as the defence budget.