R44 rating

[MK10]

Hi guys
can you do a 44 rating in 3hrs + test flight in the UK? assuming you have r22 ALREADY. Or is it 5hrs plus test?
ta

[Bravo73]

3hrs (min) + test. (From Heli Trainingcom 2005)

[Torquetalk]

Proposed to become 5 hours min plus test in the near future, which, if you haven't already got R44 hours, is a more realistic figure.

[VeeAny]

B73

Are you sure there was a 2006 TrainingCom seem to remember HeliTrainingCom 1/2005 said something like you have stated above.

However that AIC we keep talking about (72/2007) seems to imply that the new flying training requirements are a minimum of 2 hrs SEP to SEP, unless you are flying something not included in App1 to 2.245(b)(3), which in english is what we know as the single engine piston group. This means that Robinsons require 5 hrs of flight training (see below for the apparent get out).

There is however one bit I can't work out and that is that the AIC seems to imply that this may not be mandatory until next January, but I may have misread or misunderstood that bit. The AIC says that TRTOs CAN change their training manuals now but after January it will be mandatory.

Sorry to make things clear as mud again, but I don't think it quite as clear cut as it seems.

I know some schools are already applying the 5hr minimums for Robinson training. I don't know if this is by choice or necessity .

GS

[Bravo73]

Are you sure there was a 2006 TrainingCom seem to remember HeliTrainingCom 1/2005 said something like you have stated above.


Doh. You're right. I read the date off the wrong 'tab' when I was writing that post. Previous post edited.

Here's the pdf:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1_2005_H.pdf

[Pandalet]

When I did my R44 rating in June, every school I spoke to said 5hrs + test. This was 4 or 5 different people. I guess if you had hundreds or thousands of hours in a 22, and you had a school who knew you well, you might get away with 3hrs + test, but 5 seems the norm these days.

[HillerBee]

Most students aren't able to do it in 3 hours anyway. Even 5 is tight. The legal requirement is one, but it should be about proficiency.

[Bravo73]

The 3hrs is a minimum level of training.

FWIW, we also specify 5hrs (min) + test.

[Backward Blade]

Why would you want to do it in 3? Go for the 5 hrs and AUTO AUTO AUTO. When you're done that AUTO AUTO AUTO. Add some Max Gross training at decent temps to train you not to panic when the horn goes off and your engine is still running. If it's got Hyd learn to land that thing vertically if you have to. Save an hour for a windy day and land in a confined spot and see how the RPM drops when you lose the wind and you pull too fast. As said above it's all about proficiency. Training is like a Helmet...you will probably only need it ONCE! And if you do, you won't have time to think about it too much.

I'm just a silly Canuck working in the snow right now, but even staying busy/steady at anywhere from 50-100 hrs a month I never turn down training. If you are private I know cost is an issue. But do yourself a favour and suck it up now REALLY REALLY good. Flying is like sex...there's never enough. Training more so!

BWB

[rotarywise]

According to Fred Cross (last week), minimum training time for a Robbo type rating is now 5 hours plus test, irrespective of previous experience. The Helicopter TrainingCom has been overtaken by Amendment 4 to JAR-FCL 2, implemented by the AIC, and is no longer valid.

[Sam Rutherford]

Hi,

Tried searching, but the three letter limit is a problem!

I am trying to find out if adding an R22 rating (to an R44) rating involves 5 hours, with an instructor sign-off. I have been told that it's 5 hours, and then a check-ride which is clearly more (expensive :hmm:).

Thanks for any info!

Sam.

[float test]

5 hours including your test

[Whirlygig]

I don't think it's instructor sign-off, you'll need an examiner as well.

Cheers

Whirls

[tony 1969]

Minimum 5 hours (at an approved TRTO) plus test with examiner

[Whirlygig]

LASORS Section F Appendix F refers - 5 hours not including test!

Cheers

Whirls

[herman the crab]

His profile says JAA FAA PPL/A...

If FAA helicopter licence no type rating required but needs to meet SFAR73 requirements.

HTC

[GOT]

I have heard 5 hours excluding your test, however, I have also heard including the skill test.

Once and for all, which one is correct?

[Sam Rutherford]

I asked the same question on Helitorque...

5 hours, plus test - so approx 6.5 in total...

Sam.

[Pandalet]

How long the skills test lasts depends on your skills and the examiner. This isn't a full PPL skills test, so you don't have to do a nav. I've heard as low as 20 mins total, and as high as 1.5 - YMMV!

It's 5 hours plus test, although if a TRTO is authorised (ie. it's written into their ops manual and AOC), at the CFI's discretion, they can reduce the training requirements to 3 hours plus test, if (in their opinion) you have sufficient experience on a similar type. Unless you have quite a lot of experience, though, I wouldn't rely on this.

[Camp Freddie]

Sam,

5 hours, plus test - so approx 6.5 in total...

the content of an LST (type rating test) is the same as that for an LPC, so it should not take 1.5, it should take no more than 1.0

the content for an initial PPL skill test is much greater.

pandalet,

It's 5 hours plus test, although if a TRTO is authorised (ie. it's written into their ops manual and AOC), at the CFI's discretion, they can reduce the training requirements to 3 hours plus test, if (in their opinion) you have sufficient experience on a similar type.

where does it say this in lasors, hours requirements are mentioned in appendix F, Section F, page 59, but i cannot see 3 hours mentioned in this context. I am not saying you are wrong, I just cant find it.

I think helcopters within the "single engine group" may be ok for 3 hours, but the R22,R44 are not in the group, but i couldnt find that either without a big search as I am too busy doing my R22 MCC course to find out !


regards

CF

[Ewe Turn]

Speaking from experience, it appears that you can, as I did, do the rating and test in 3 hours if the TRTO has CAA approval to do so.

I had an R22 rating on my JAA CPL(H) and needed an R44 rating and ended up doing did 1.9 hours refresher training ( I had a current,valid R44 rating on a overseas CPL) and a 1.1 hour skills test.

[Camp Freddie]

Ewe Turn,

that is because you already had a foreign rating , see LASORS section F, page 30, para 9.1, which allows this subject to reccomendation by head of training and CAA approval.

CF

[Pandalet]

Camp Freddie,

I may be mixing this up - my understanding was that if you have enough relevant experience, AND the TRTO has the exemption to the 5 hour min from the CAA, then you MAY be allowed to do 3 hours conversion training instead of 5. I can't point to something in LASORS that supports this, mainly because (like you) I simply don't have the time right now to trawl through it :8

You're doing a multi-crew co-op for R22? What requires multi-crew in an R22, apart from training (which isn't really multi-crew)?

[Camp Freddie]

pandalet,

my understanding was that if you have enough relevant experience, AND the TRTO has the exemption to the 5 hour min from the CAA, then you MAY be allowed to do 3 hours conversion training instead of 5.

I wish somebody could point me to something that says this !

You're doing a multi-crew co-op for R22? What requires multi-crew in an R22, apart from training (which isn't really multi-crew)?

that was my poor idea of a joke

CF

[Pandalet]

Quote:
You're doing a multi-crew co-op for R22? What requires multi-crew in an R22, apart from training (which isn't really multi-crew)?
that was my poor idea of a joke

My bad, sense of humour failure on my part :O