Max amount of hours allowed on license for J1 visa

[Mikey D]

Hi Guys,

Just a bit about my situation. I'm beginning my training in Hawaii in Jan on a M1 visa as i'm a UK citizen. My plan is to get my ppl and as many hours on top as possible on the M1 before coming back to the UK and applying for a J1 which will allow me more time as an instructor to gain hours.
I know a few people have done this before and i know there is a limit to the amount of hours your allowed to already have on you license before applying for the J1. I've heard that its 150 hours but i've also heard that its your PPL +50 hours on top.
Can anyone give me the correct answer? And if there is anyone who has done the M1/J1 visa thing i would be really happy if they could contact me as i have a couple of questions

thanks
mike

[Wanna-be]

At Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon it is PPL plus 50 hrs, but I'm not sure wether this is an official FAA/Visa rule or just a school rule.

WB

[SpinningSnowbird]

Mikey D,

Are you sure that the school you are planning to attend in Hawaii is authorized to issue the J-1 visa? To the best of my understanding there are only a few flight schools in the US who are allowed to issue J-1s for flight training, and only two of them (Bristow and Hillsboro) offer helicopter training. Furthermore, the US State Department stopped adding schools to the J-1 authorized list in January of 2006, so there shouldn't be any new schools on the list.

I know of at least two schools which specify on their websites that you cannot have more than a PPL + 50 hours beyond PPL in order to qualify for the J-1, but I can't find any official information about this requirement. The only stipulation about prior experience and eligibility for a 'trainee' category J-1 comes from 22 CFR Part 62.22(j), which states that "...trainees shall be fully qualified to participate successfully in a structured training program at a level appropriate for the individual trainee’s career development. However, such training shall not be duplicative of the trainee’s prior training and experience." Perhaps the schools are using an arbitrary value of PPL+50hrs in order to ensure that you aren't duplicating prior experience when you go there. The best answer would come from the "Responsible Officer" of the J-1 visa program at the school you intend to go to.

I'm currently studying in the US on a J-1 Visa and loving every second of it!

Cheers, SS

[Mikey D]

I'm going to Hawaii on an M1. But i just got a pm from a member on here saying that the US gov. have just stopped people from doing the M1/J1 switch. But i have no actual proof of it so i'm having to look in to it

[kpd]

SS,
Are you at Bristows, hillsboro or somewhere else??

[SpinningSnowbird]

kpd: I'm flying out of Hillsboro, working on CPL(H) at the moment.

[singesavant]

Do you have a lot of weather issues in oregon?

[Runway101]

Do you have a lot of weather issues in oregon?
Days with VFR are usually rare during the winter time in Hillsboro. I've been there last year, February was the worst. During summer however, I flew every single day.

I would say that November, December, January, February and March should be avoided at any cost if you plan to go to Hillsboro on a visa. You'll be wasting your time and your money. May, June, July and August are usually great, flying almost every day. I am speaking from experience.
From my impression Hillsboro Aviation also changed a lot lately, the place is full with Chinese on the fixed wing program. Not that I would care of nationality, but they come in huge numbers which makes the place pretty busy, noisy and chaotic sometimes.

And on the helicopter program they seemed to have way too many students for the few patterns they have (at least for my taste). They have a rule which says that you can only put your name on the board for a traffic pattern 15 minutes before your time slot. Now most people who need a pattern show up 30 minutes to 60 minutes before the time slot, just to make sure to get a pattern. Usually a few guys walk in after that just to find out they are too late because somebody else was even earlier. And most disappointing, even if you are early enough and you think to have a pattern, if a CFI shows up or a student with a solo or check ride, he puts his name on the board without following the 15minutes prior timeslot rule, they simply have priority, even if your name is already on the board. I understand that they had to come up with these rules since patterns are limited, but it costs a lot of nerves and money if you need to move on to your next Part 141 lesson and you can't. Only option then is to go flying elsewhere (i.e. Scappoose or West Practice Area) and invest the average US$ 300+ a timeslot costs, or cancel your flight and wait for the next day. I realize that this may just be my experience, and others didn't get that frustrated. I hated it ;-)

[manfromuncle]

HAI used to suffer similiar problems due to too many students about 2.5 years ago. No idea what it's like now.

As these are the only J1 heli schools in the USA, they are very very over subscribed.

[singesavant]

hoppppppppppppppppp

[SpinningSnowbird]

OK, so we can agree that both schools are experiencing challenges which scheduling, perhaps because they have overextended themselves and their facilities. I can't speak for HAI/Bristow, but I know that Hillsboro has restricted new student enrolment because of this, and is asking some current students to move their training to Hillsboro's facility at Troutdale airport where there is lots of available capacity for helicopter training and traffic patterns. Just like Runway101, I've been frustrated with pattern availability in the past, and I hope that Hillsboro's measures will improve the situation.

I haven't experienced an Oregon winter yet but I expect to lose some (ok, a lot of) flying time over the next few months. I'm OK with this; I prefer to have the experience of flying in less than optimal weather. When I made my choice of schools, I decided that doing all my training at a "fair weather" school in Florida would make me a "fair weather pilot," and I didn't want that. I would rather train in weather and terrain conditions that more closely mimic my home country and be better prepared and more educated in making weather decisions when I go to apply for jobs back home. For me the reduction of hours in the winter is an acceptable trade-off for becoming a more rounded pilot.

TorqueStripe - Pelican has a part 141 plank flying program, but their helicopter training is part 61 (from reading their website). Any training on a J-1 visa has to happen under part 141 rules, so pelican would have to develop a helicopter part 141 course and then receive approval to take J-1 students for the course. As it stands now, the State Department hasn't granted a new J-1 sponsor authorization in years, and won't for the foreseeable future.
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/j1flighttraining.html

[rotorvision98]

Post deleted by Splot.

rotorvision,

Rotorheads forum is not interested in your opinion of our American friends. Take them elsewhere.

Bye Bye

Senior Pilot
Rotorheads Moderator

[SpinningSnowbird]

TS, I see what you mean about the additional course thing...sounds like a good idea. Pelican's website also seems to specify that they only offer the J-1 for their professional pilot program, but they don't say whether it's for airplane or for helicopter. I've emailed them to find out the official answer, rather than continue speculating. It would be nice to know there is another option for J-1 helicopter training (if only to direct others that way and keep them off my turf! ;))

TS, like yourself, I'm confused about the "commercial add-on" course that they advertise...I don't really know who that course is for, since the "initial commercial" course is the one a private pilot would take. Maybe the commercial add-on is an additional category/class add-on...but with only 5 solo hours...???

I don't, however, agree with you about the 35 solo hour requirement that you mention. A private pilot receiving training for a commercial license can log PIC for all dual training time (provided the instructor doesn't do any of the flying), so one would not need 35 solo hours. In order to satisfy part 61 commercial requirements a pilot only needs 10 solo hours and 20 dual hours achieved after their private license, plus of course the 150 TT (50 in a heli) /100 PIC (35 in a heli and 10 x/c in a heli). In my mind anyway, pelican's commercial course satisfies part 61.

Additionally, for a part 61 instrument rating, up to 20 hours can be completed in a simulator or FTD (30 hours if the school is part 142 rated), so pelican's course appears to satisfy part 61 requirements, since a commercial pilot will have already completed at least 10 hours of instrument training prior to getting his commercial license (31 heli + 14 sim = 45 hours).

I think that's right...correct me if I'm wrong.... :)

[rudestuff]

To help answer the original question - I got a J1 in 2004 with no problems - when I had PPL and 198 hours total.
Can't remember if I lied about my hours but I don't thinks so. If the school are really anal about it - just lose a few hours.

[Mikey D]

Well i think its going to be a bit risky to try it and from the information i've been given its seems that US immigration has wisend up to people doing it. I've decided to do my whole course in Hawaii and then try and get extensions for the M1. Also by the way people are talking about the problems with weather in the winter and huge amount of students Hillsboro may not have been a great move anyway despite the fact it seems a good school to go when i visited it.

[SpinningSnowbird]

Direct from Pelican, by email:
"Currently we are Part 61 but intend to be Part 141 in January. We currently conduct our syllabus for training to Part 141 standards, hour requirements are still Part 61. We can offer M1 visas for training right now but not J1 visas."

Apparently hour requirements DO meet part 61 standards. I guess their website is just unclear. Cheers. :)