'Heathrow voted least favourite airport'.

[AdamLT]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jhtml?xml=/travel/2007/10/30/et-airport-130.xml

A shame to hear this is the case, but is it just down to all the construction work for T5 and restoration of the other terminals? Or the large number of pax travelling through its doors??

It also mentioned that AA are starting some of their transatlantic flights from Stansted. Will Stansted be voted the next 'least favourite airport' when it needs to be expanded??

Looks like airlines are cashing in with Heathrow's unpopularity.

[PAXboy]

That EGLL is the least favourite is neither a Rumour nor News. :}

The problems are deep seated (20+ years) and, one may reasonably presume, AA researched from where else their clients might like to travel. LHR will have to get a lot worse before people leave it in sufficient numbers for real change to occur. Within the confines of successive government non-policy, this field will always be hobbled.

[Wiggly Bob]

Somebody actually got paid to conduct a survey for this? I'd have told them the same for free:ugh:

[perkin]

Now there's a revelation... :D

[Rainboe]

Will Stansted be voted the next 'least favourite airport' when it needs to be expanded??
Where have you been! I go through Stansted regularly. Last week, it took 1.15 to get through check-in and security. It has the misfortune to be run by that abysmal organisation BAA, with it's AWFUL security people and those morons in green uniforms walking around like concentration camps guards barking orders at people. I always stand there laughing at them thinking that they think they are sheepdogs to our sheep! They're idiots. I had the ugliest woman in security shouting at me that my carry on bag (pilot briefcase) was 'more than 10kgs, you can't take this with you!' I laughed at the cow. She forgot she wasn't Ryanair check in staff!

So Stansted has outgrown its design already. What I will say is how pleasant and courteous UK Immigration staff are these days. How nice to have at least somebody speak nice to you in those BAA hell-holes! Quite simply, I think BAA has decided too many people are flying these days, and they are trying to kill off aviation in the UK, and stop people using the UK for transits. They are admirably succeeding in their self-appointed task.

[Ancient Mariner]

Arrived LHR '85 from Aus, end of immigration line. Sign on wall flashing: "Welcome to Heathrow, the most efficient airport in the world" or somesuch nonsense. Didn't catch my connecting flight to FBU even though we landed AHEAD of schedule. Never liked LHR since.
Per

[Load Toad]

Heathrow sucks chunks. It is a pain in the backside & I don't know anyone who will go through it if they can reasonably avoid doing so. I can't think of anything attractive about the place.

[ZFT]

Impressive performance by BAA. 2 airports in the top 10 and 3 in the top 20.

[10secondsurvey]

Not really a surprise.

To be avoided, if at all possible. An absolute dump.

An awful place from start to finish.

[Load Toad]

This piece appeared on a Popular HK blog 'Hemlock'. I have put it on PPrune before but some may have missed it:

Surely – any moderate-minded person with an ounce of common sense and a pinch of healthy skepticism will assure themselves – the stories we read about the abomination that is Heathrow Airport are at least slightly exaggerated. This is my feeling as the British Airways 747 Megatube descends gracefully past the green and pleasant sewage treatment plants of London's western suburbs and approaches runway 27L. Washington DC's Dulles Airport has improved its procedures noticeably since my last visit, with immigration and (virtually non-existent) customs lines and procedures taking barely 10 minutes. The UK capital's main airport, while on an admittedly bigger scale, must have continued adapting more or less as well to the needs of the post-2001, War on Terror, no-shampoo-allowed era of international travel.
My first task on landing is to stand in the aisle and cut off the oaf who has been sitting in front of me, squirming, stretching and testing the load-bearing capacity of his seat in every way imaginable for seven hours. Trapping the hyperactive claustrophobe in his little space for an extra five minutes while we wait for the doors to open will serve as punishment for not calmly submitting to the confines of the cabin and Sitting Still like everyone else. On being released from the airplane, the procession of travellers strides noisily down a ramp and along a narrow, ill-lit corridor. The herd then turns right into another gloomy tunnel, with little portholes on one side revealing rows of docked airliners from around the world. We then trundle to the left, into yet another murky channel, with barely enough room for sensible people who carry bags on their shoulders to kick idiots' space-consuming little cases on wheels out of the way. This 100-yard stretch of prefabricated structure and nylon carpet has framed pictures of cute animals along one wall, which naturally puts everyone into a relaxed mood of sublime well-being. The next leg of the journey is along a passage that is twice as wide as the previous ones, the extra space being occupied by a moving walkway that is out of order.

At this stage, passengers connecting to onward flights are prodded into another area, where they are sorted by size and forced to remove their shoes before passing through a series of security checks just like the ones they went through on the other side of the Atlantic. The rest of us proceed along yet another dimly lit hallway, this time sloping upwards, until we reach a large, temporary looking hall into a crowd of people of every colour and creed on the planet, wearing a wide variety of bright ethnic outfits. They are Government officials, tasked to sift through every batch of arrivals, sending us into different lines according to whether we hold UK, Irish, European Union member state, Norwegian, Swiss or – for the truly unfortunate – 'other' passports.

The latter group get the privilege of joining an extremely long line of humanity, snaking its way into the distance. At the end of it, the victims parade one by one into a bare, concrete chamber where a burly man in a leather apron puts a stun gun to their forehead and hoists them up by their legs onto a suspended hook on a cable that transports them into a rendering facility where they are processed for pet food. The rest of us, after standing in line for ages reading posters saying our patience is appreciated, are eventually allowed to pass the immigration desks. I am asked where I have flown in from and take a full 20 seconds to remember. After picking my way along yet another strip of furry artificial flooring and through a cavern full of conveyor belts where fools who check baggage in lie in starving piles waiting to be bulldozed into mass graves, I get to Her Majesty's Customs. Overweight, uniformed women let black sniffer dogs rub their disgusting wet noses against people's luggage. Interestingly, the canines choose to check only travellers that are their own colour. I stroll through and out into a welcoming area full of loud announcements, even louder signage and grim-looking people waiting to greet their loved ones or pre-booked taxi customers. This is where Heathrow proper starts. It is so vile, I can't bring myself to describe it.

[strake]

Well, I'm flying to Narita week after next and Virgin has just advised me that I will be using the new arrivals "wing" at T3 which has private security. I realise that that is not an exactly mainstream way of getting through but shows what can be done to ease the problem.
Quite frankly, I think there are airports far worse...
Boston, almost criminally incompetent. Last time trying to get through to B gates; one walk-thru, two x-ray machines, about two hundred passengers and crew winding back through the terminal all "managed" by five TSA morons playing marine drill sergeant....1hr 10mins
Newark: Lufthansa, BA, Silverjet arrive.....six Immigration and Border boothes including "for residents". Actually only five because the guy in one kept on coming out to threaten people for using phones who were trying to explain to pick-ups that they would be delayed getting through.
The reality is that all commercial flying is a right royal PITA these days and the carriers who are going to win the high paying premium business are those who are starting to offer services such as EOS and Silverjet. Even Virgin are looking at business only services although, I understand, not with current branding. Premium routes in and out of airports although no doubt expensive, are very attractive.

[Rainboe]

We (ie the politicians) have let low grade staff take over administration of our airports (BAA). People who are barely qualified to work in McDs, and management who appear to be inept former civil servants, are now running (joke) things, charging ever more, and all they can think of is maximising revenue by opening more shops, which people can't get to because they are stuck in security queues! So what happens? Having made a total pigs ear of running the airport, they sell up to foreigners ('here- you have the keys and see if you can make it go- I can't!). Now the Spanish are no doubt looking at this mess they've paid a lot of money for wondering how they can get money back from it. The stupid politicians who gave the whole shooting match to incompetents (BAA) in the first place are now looking in horror at the position we are in- having sold it they can hardly take it back off the Spanish. So there is no solution, the airlines at LHR are screaming in disgust, the BAA staff are screaming at the customers like concentration camp guards, everybody hates the place (and is screaming), and at last the customers (passengers) are getting the word and will quite simply stay away. It took so long to just get planning permission for T5 that Madrid's new terminal was designed and built within that time alone. What hope for a new runway? Aeroplanes are already hitting each other on the ground. Heads (of BAA) should be removed at the Tower and placed on spikes at the entrance to the tunnel. The place is a nightmare, and the politicians have left us with no solution!
(from: 'History of London Airports and their Rape by BAA'. Rainboe 2007)

[Seat62K]

You mention Terminal 4 at Barajas. I reckon that T5 will be no match: it will be crowded from day one.

[fyrefli]

Thank you for that, Load Toad - some of that is priceless, particularly the last para :)

[Atlas Shrugged]

I have two words to say about Heathrow and the second one is "Heathrow"

[Donkey497]

I do a shed load of travel with my work, most of it to locations outside the UK. I have to admit that I have and will continue to do everything in my power to avoid travelling through LHR STN & MAN. LGW is in the dubious category, but I have to say that the problem is that BAA still believe that they are in some ways UK Governmat civil servants (i.e job for life regardless of how poor their performance is) even although its years since BAA were privatised and sold off. The fact that they are now employees of a Spanish company might make its way to the forefront of their three cell brains in about seventy to ninety years time and then they might want to think about customer service and satisfaction.

I used to do a lot of EDI-ATL-IAH until Delta pulled the ATL flight last month and I have to say that immigration, customs clearance and transfer at ATL was an absolute breeze, even when the flights were late. Loads of Immigration agents and superb Customs services. I have to pass through LHR tomorrow:eek::eek::eek: on my way back from SIN, & everyone I'm travelling with is dreading the thought:uhoh:.

As soon as Etihad, Emirates, Singapore, BMI, Air Canada, Zoom etc. start to increase direct or one stop transatlantic, far east and other services from EDI, GLA, NCL etc, the better.:ok:


London is NOT the centre of the universe!!!!!!!

[MrSoft]

Well, no surprise of course. The sad truth is that almost every single airport you visit anywhere in the world provides a better passenger experience than almost every UK airport.

A couple of things still amaze me. First, whenever BAA get their marketing heads together for another brainstorm "hey guys, how do we improve the customer experience blah"?, all it seems to produce is ghastly retail initiatives. If only they would actually ask the customer, just once.

Second I think BA are too willing to play the victim card at Heathrow. I like BA, and rate them well above average. BA spend a lot of marketing (and other) dollars to sustain that opinion in me. But since they abandoned the provinces, I avoid BA whenever possible as it involves LHR transit. What is BA doing to maximise its wasted marketing dollars with me? Surely they can concoct a few bright ideas to help the rest of the UK transit through Heathrow, BAA or no BAA? Where's the innovation?

Rainboe or Paxboy (forget who) made a very good point about BA strategically contracting its business, but if they helped fix LHR transit they'd rocket their business overnight. Maybe T5 will fix this, we'll see. As it is I defect from my favourite airline as soon as another carrier opens a direct routing from Man or indeed anywhere that avoids LHR transit.

Ah Manchester, but that's another story too. Remember the old classy T1, landside with the Venetian chandeliers, airside with big glassy spaces overlooking the apron. All gone as they pursue the retail dollar. Which idiot plonked up that pre-fab WH Smiths, totally blocking out the multi-£m glass exterior wall so lovingly built not 10 years ago? :sad:

[Rainboe]

BA is just another tenant at this BAA owned airport, and as such, I assume must be in despair. It suffers the consequences of the BAA owned and operated infrastructure. The ghastly record of baggage disasters comes largely from the baggage conveyor breakdowns of the last couple of years, the fallout of which obviously comes on the airline.

First, whenever BAA get their marketing heads together for another brainstorm "hey guys, how do we improve the customer experience blah"?,....this made me laugh. 'Customer experience'? It's 'How can we screw more money out of all those nauseating people who keep coming here?'. Hence ever more retail space (which hardly anyone can actually use because they are stuck in security queues with several lanes closed).

They actually do one thing superbly well. They are fantastic at setting up those zig zag queue lanes that have you eternally shuffling past the same people, whilst those green uniformed idiot sheepdogs go running up and down shouting at you. For that, I forget the amount, but they screw an incredible 'Passenger Security charge' per person out of the airlines. I find the whole experience of LHR/LGW/STN offensive. Nowhere else I go do crew as passengers get screamed at for allowing their ID to show, with threats to confiscate them. Someone who can barely read anything beyond the Daily Mirror barking orders at me.............?

[bealine]

Heathrow sucks chunks

Load Toad, that quote is absolutely priceless!

I haven't laughed so much since Auntie Mabel caught her left titty in the mangle!

P L E A S E - can someone get some car stickers and tee shirts rustled up with this slogan! It might just provide the catalyst needed to spur some action into cleaning up our dreadful, dreadful airport!

Now, your next challenge, Load Toad, should you wish to accept it, is to come up with a similar priceless gem for Gatwick - another experience a "developing world country" would be ashamed of!

[Guest 112233]

Thanks to Load Toad, for that happy rendition of his experences on arrival at our Premier international Aerodrome ! (look no props ) - I have to advise my fellow travelers; that the litany unleashed , regarding the treatment of foreign passport holders is bang on correct ! :hmm:- Welcome to Britian - :bored: - if you were on the delayed BA arriving from SFO,, two sunday's Ago ( the later flight ) - Please add the Two hour wait for luggage - and you did not mention the grease marks on those tired looking murals where the Guards mount an attempt to catch that Red "Route master" Bus - A technical masterpiece !!!!! - unlike the drab prefabricated - look what you can do with 300 Quid's worth of concreate, international welcome mat to the big wide world. - PS thanks to BA on replacing the leaking 400 on the outbound SFO in 3 hours flat. First impressions count - This place is a poor pasenger hub.

[Guest 112233]

I should have called the Bus a Routemaster - Apologies - Yes you can buy a model in one of those Retail opertunities Booths - that Seel only the same brands of Chocs & Sweets

[radeng]

A few public floggings and hangings of BAA's so called 'managers' might encourage those taking over to do the job right.

[PAXboy]

Regrettably, BAA + customer experience is limited to retail for the simple reason that it is not subject to govt restriction.

When BAA was privatised and, in concert with other privatised entities, they were given a price cap of 'Inflation - n%' or similar across a number of years. However, this related only to landing fees (I sit to be corrected) and so retail expansion could be at any price they could get away with. Before long, BAA made more money out of retail than aircraft, hence the focus was lost in the law of unintended consequences.

I would argue that the public floggings are owed to the politicians of the 1980s who decided to privatise this vital utility and set up such a pricing structure.

Once the politicians have been dealt with (Oi!!, get to the back of the queue Rainboe and wait your turn :}) then we can move on to the CAA who have allowed BAA to get away with so much with zero responsibility falling on to either BAA or CAA or the govt.

[skydriller]

A couple of posters have briefly mentioned this, but the thing I cannot understand is why the Airlines let BAA get away with doing such a bad job with their customers. I guess it gives them someone to blame, but the thing is, that works once for transit pax, then they choose a different carrier so the airline loses the business....

I alluded to it in the BA Baggage thread, but the tHeafrow "experience" must be losing BA and Virgin business to the AirFrance, KLM and Lufthansa options.
Is BA having everything out of the new T5 (if it works), in the same way that Lufthansa has everything out of T2 at Munich?

Regards SD..

[bealine]

skydriller - the problem is not an easy one!
The airlines have no choice but to let BAA get away with it! It's not as if British Airways can threaten to pack up and go to Shoreham-by-Sea airfield or base its operation at Prestwick - even if we did, the BAA would not take the threat seriously as indeed they wouldn't from other airlines either!

Indeed, when Ryanair threatened to drastically cut their winter timetable and shed jobs at Stansted if BAA didn't cut its charges, the BAA called Ryanair's bluff and now 60 Ground jobs and about 40 flying jobs are being axed. BAA plc really takes the biscuit for hard-nosed effrontery! (Much as I dislike Ryanair, Michael O'Leary did have a very good point and I hate to see jobs in this industry being cut unnecessarily!)

Like it or not, the BAA are our landlords and all we can do is put up with the sorry situation - indeed, to go one step further at ground level, we have to work with the men and women in green so a mutual spirit of co-operation is essential if we're going to achieve anything! Unfortunately, many of the problems with which Heathrow finds itself ensnared are HM Government's own making (through the shiny-bums' interference at the DFT!)

Whilst Terminal 5 will be occupied 100% by British Airways, (at this stage anyway - as we all know what government interference did with Gatwick's North Terminal and Heathrow's Terminal 4 don't we!), it will still be owned and managed by the BAA so watch this space!

[PAXboy]

As I understand it, BA originally wanted everything out of T4 and wanted it to be theirs alone but this was not allowed. Further, there were too many flights for the facility.

Now they want everything out of T5 but there will be a few operating from T3, to facilitate One World code shares. The 'too many flights to fit into one terminal' problem was fixed by reducing the number of routes. :}

Largely, however, they will be masters of their own domain and are clearly expecting great benefits. As to why other carriers have not complained and done more to get BAA to change? My guess is:
1) Corporate complacency.
2) There was no public outcry. Pax used EGLL because they had no choice.

This was changed by:
1) 9/11 and the 'security' regs that pushed the place well beyond the limit and the multitude of smaller problems that had existed for years, got pulled into the lime light along with the new problems.
2) The LCCs made domestic and continental flights cheaper and obviated the need to use LHR. At first, the carriers saw a reduction in short haul capacity and cheerfully used it for new services or long haul. Rather too late, they found that the problem was bigger than they thought.

In corporate (and domestic) life, big problems usually start about 20 years before they are big. The roots of the problems are clearly visible but will take many years to clear. Mostly, they will be cleared by people not using the place.

[bealine]

As I understand it, BA originally wanted everything out of T4 and wanted it to be theirs alone but this was not allowed

Got it in one! Government interference!

The same thing happened with Gatwick's North Terminal - ever wondered why it was finished in the same shade of blue that BA was at the time using for the "Landor" livery?

[aab]

this poster about sums it up:
http://images.fotopic.net/?iid=yo5tkc

[SXB]

Many business travellers, like myself, based in continental Europe now avoid using LHR for transit. I wasn't using LHR that much, maybe one transatlantic trip and four or five to central Asia. Those were all C class flights and that equates to at least €15,000. BA must be aware they are losing huge amounts of revenue because their home airport is managed by circus performers.

Most of that business has now gone to AF. Now CDG has never been the most efficient airport in the world but compared to the trapeze artists in LHR it's a bastion of organisation and efficiency.

[radeng]

LHR management (?) is a problem. Regardless of politicians. For example, and this is typical: Arrive Friday night, moving walkway not working. Depart Sunday evening, still not working.
Either:
maintenance not working at weekends to save money. The rest of the airport is so it's a ploy to save money. Answer: public flogging and execution of manager responsible
No spare parts available: maintenance should know what spares they need: if they can't have them because it ties up money, the answer is public flogging and execution of manager responsible
Then there's T4 security. fast track, X ray operator gets up and walks away. Nobody replacing her for 10 minutes while the queue waits.
Answer: public flogging and execution of supervisor responsible
I'm a liberal!!!

[merlinxx]

LGW has been my UK home base since 1964, only had to spend 6 months at LHR:}:ugh::{ on rotation from JED. Boy was I happy to get back to JED (bet no one else has ever said that?):rolleyes:. We gave LHR the name 'Hounslow Bus Garage' back in 1970, we were just starting the Air Corporations 1st charter subsidiary @ LGW, which went on to become so successful that big brother in BA got sooo pissed off, they took away all long haul ops so BA LH could take on and loose the business:ugh:. Thiethrow, Heathslow, Hounslow Bus Garage, be honest, LHR just one of the worlds ****tiest airports:mad::\.



Nuf said, back to good old important BIZAV work where the PAX is the Guvna:):D;):ok:!!!!!!!!!!!

[bealine]

Yes, merlinxx, I sympathise with the points you have made!
I've gone from LGW to LHR kicking and screaming because I don't think BA at Gatwick has much of a future and I'm too old to start a pension with someone else!
I do try and influence Heathrow into the "Gatwick Way" - and I have to say Terminal One does have a similar atmosphere to Gatters - but somehow I'm farting against thunder!
Big Airways thinks the world begins and ends at Hounslow Bus Garage and a little cog like me isn't going to change their minds!

[Donkey497]

Well, I'm sorry to say that as I predicted, Heathrow lived down to my worst expectations on Friday past. After the best part of 24 hours spent travelling Economy Class on Singapore Airlines from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, then Business Class to Abu Dhabi and then on to Heathrow, both on Etihad. The previous arrivals into SIN, KUL & AUH were pleasant and welcoming to say the least, transit from aircraft to immigration to baggage claim was rapid, efficient, clean and pleasant.

Arriving into T3 at Heathrow around mid-day, armed with a "priority pass" for immigration, it took a twenty minute hike to get to immigration and a huge queue in the cattle grids leading to all of the immigration desks and the priority queue nearly as long. Just then, the first welcome to the UK, half of the immigration staff go to Lunch. Ten minutes later, most of the rest left for lunch leaving about five desks covering the whole immigration hall for about fifteen flights that had arrived about the same time. The priority queue was reduced to a single desk processing all the business and first class passengers on these flights. needless to say, this line ran consequently slower than the others. After a wasted fifteen minutes in the immigration queue, on to the baggage hall and a ten minute wait for the first of the hold baggage to appear. But no trolleys.

No signs for trolleys either.

Our bags appeared on belt 6, so a wander up to the far end at belt 1 eventually unearthed about twenty trolleys hidden in the corner by a closed service desk, with a notice about four foot up the back wall stating that "For your convenience all trolleys are now kept at belt 1 and belt 11" as there are no other signs visible telling you where the trolleys are, just how convenient do they think it is to hide the trolleys?

Then to Customs. pretty much a painless and courteous experience here, except the circuitous route through their domain and a trolley that had the steering precision of a pregnant whale.

A complete lack of transport between the terminals meant a tript with a well loaded trolley with luggage for two on board through the tunnels between T3 & T1. It's a great pity that the moving walkways aren't wide enough for two trolleys to pass each other, likewise that they don't end at the start of a trolley route and you have to back track round tight corners & fairly steep inclines to get up to T1 ground level again.

Once into the havoc of T1 it was time to try to check in to BMI to get back home to EDI. BMI can't afford to have people on check in desks, but they are quite prepared to have three or four hang about a set of scales to physically weigh every item of hold baggage and charge you through the nose for any discrepancy. Despite no charges outbound or on the return leg on any of the other Star Alliance members used, BMI were happy to hit us for over $200. Once you get past this happy band you have to check youself in then take your bags to a set of check in desks for hold baggage manned by as many folks as used to man the tradiational check in desks, so I can't figure how this would be cheaper for BMI. Once the hold bags were in, on to security.

At security, yellow/green waistcoated gestapo are demanding to know the exact contents of your carry on bags and advising all and sundry that any liquids in your carry on must either be less than 100ml or will be confiscated. They are also proclaiming that you are allowed one bag only, yet let people through with carry-ons which were clearly three separate bags stacked together and larger than the usual skeleton "Try you bag here" frame. I was stopped as I had my computer roll-on bag & a small rucsac which came as a freebie with my duty free bought in KUL, sealed in a clear plastic bag with a tamper evident seal and the receipt duly exhibited inside it, in full compliance with DFT requirements. However the "securitate" cannot be wrong and I was told that only duty free bought within the EU can be carried on UK domestic flights all other duty free has to be put in the hold. Great thinking guys, don't tell the poor b****rds that have been awake for over 24 hours that they have to repack their bags again until after they have checked them all in.

A55H0L3S!!!

Once past this nonsense, the screening queues were about thirty yards long. At EDI, theres usually about five or six screening points running at quiet periods. At LHR, peak time on a Friday, there were three, one of which was constantly being disrupted for "key BAA personnel" to butt in to the head of the queue then spend five or ten minutes chatting to those scanning the bags and on the body searches.

The ultimate irony has to be that we were told "get your bloody shoes off and get them through the scanner or you won't be flying anywhere". Having spent the best part of the previous day in the air wearing training shoes with paper thin soles, what did they expect to see?

Welcome home to the UK, home of the rip-off, arrogant & unhelpful staff and customer disservice. No wonder everyone hates Heathrow.

Donkey497

[BEagle]

120 C/D class flights over the last 12 months.

Number via Heathrow? One in, one out. I had no option as I was at a meeting until late afternoon and couldn't get to my usual airport in time.

Everything written on this thread is true. One more thing is the dreadfully expensive and very cramped long term car park. Having queued to get off the M4, then down the spur road and spotted the sign, you drive for miles to a small entrance somewhere down near where people probably used to board Lancastrians. The parking spaces are very narrow and you're lucky not to get a dented door...they were probably designed for the cars driven by the people who used to board Lancastrians.

Then find the bus stop and work out which bus is which. But all are driven by a smiling and enthusiastic 'turbo-turban' who manages to corner the unwieldy brute with Formula 1 standards of skill (and G force), before treating you to a tour of various dingy concrete caverns under the bowels of T1.

The joy is even greater on the return trip - having made it through the horrors of immigration and customs, you then stand around in the rain (if it's Terminal 2) waiting for the bus, then off for another tour of traffic jams and odd corners of the airport - before the ludicrous junction at the Concorde-not-really-a-roundabout and down to the car park to part with a king's ransom in fees.

Even then it's not over - there's the game called Finding The M4! I've never quite found out how to get from Heathrow to the M40 except via Maidenhead - is it really so bloody difficult to provide clear signposting which leads you up the spur and onto the M4/M25/M40, instead of 20 sets of traffic lights past the ba waterworks and finally onto the M4 at the Honda roundabout halfway to Slough? I suspect Livingstone's hand in that somewhere.....

Heathrow really sucks! Whereas today I had a pleasant drive (exactly the same distance as it would have been to Heathrow) though the Heart of England to the spacious car park at Birmingham airport, then a 3 minute trip to the Terminal!

Another 'joy' of Heathrow is the 'Heathrow Express'. After dumping my luggage in T2 and paying someone 6 quid to look at it for 5 hours, I then walked along miles of empty echoing tunnels to the train. Cheapest fare from Heathrow to Chancery Lane? 34 quid return!!!

Only travel through Heathrow if there's really no other alternative!

[bealine]

After a wasted fifteen minutes in the immigration queue, on to the baggage hall and a ten minute wait for the first of the hold baggage to appear. But no trolleys.

Much as I agree with most of the post on Heathrow, I can't see what your problem is Donkey!

25 minutes for immigration and the baggage to appear is good when you compare it to US standards for non-USA passport holders - especially if the immigration staff were processing fifteen flights!

NEWARK AIRPORT THREE WEEKS AGO - Immigration queue 90 minutes (only one flight being processed).

NEWARK AIRPORT LAST WEEK - Immigration were only processing TWO international flights (767 and 777 - not the 747's Terminal 3 handles) and just to get to the immigration booth took over TWO HOURS!!! (One of our Gatwick wheelchair supervisors was detained in a room for FOUR HOURS, wrists nylon-strapped, humiliated and made to piddle in a bottle just because the airline had not completed his APIS details properly (and the details didn't match his passport!)

Nah! Heathrow may be bad, but the USA for non-US passport holders sucks harder!!! ..........and our Police, Security, Customs and Immigration staff are pussy-cats compared to the hard-ba5tards the USA produces!

God Help Us when the USA receives the Airbus A380's!!!

[Gonzo]

BEagle, you must be joking about finding the M4 from Heathrow, surely?

Singage is clear as mud.

Where are you starting from?:confused:

Also, the 'joy' of the HEX is that it is quiet, swift and reliable.

Donkey497:

Ten minutes later, most of the rest left for lunch leaving about five desks covering the whole immigration hall for about fifteen flights that had arrived about the same time.

Err, not quite. I think maybe that's fifteen flights into T3 in one hour, maybe, but not all at the same time. And that's stretching it a bit!

Only fifteen minutes in immigration? That sounds like a good run to me. That's a darn sight quicker than all my experiences this year: Including Newark three times (one of which was over an hour and a half), JFK, Columbus Ohio and LAX.

Last time I was through T3 baggage, there were signs for trolleys.

I've been through Edi three times this year, and on all three I've only ever seen one security point active, and this was between 1700-1900, what some would call a peak period.

I'm no fan of Heathrow, and I avoid it when I can, but people do like to bash it out of hand sometimes.

[BEagle]

It's probably my fault, but following the signs onto the A4 Bath Road it simply never occurs to me to have to re-enter the airport area to loop back round onto the Concorde-not-really-a-roundabout junction to get onto the M4 spur/M4/M25/M40!

Or the long way round via the A30/A312 to join at junction 3...

Hence I usually end up on the Colnbrook by-pass gazing up at the M25 as I pass underneath on my merry way to Slough to join the M4 at junction 5, then finally reach the M40 at Booker......:hmm:

The one and only time I used the HEX, it was anything but reliable. Train failure and no idea from the Paddington folk as to when the next one would be running..... Then that 'long march' to T2.... Joy!!

Heathrow and its lousy infrastructure deserves all the kicking it gets, in my view.

By the way, will ba's new pride and joy have a long term car park of its own?

[Gonzo]

It's probably my fault, but following the signs onto the A4 Bath Road it simply never occurs to me to have to re-enter the airport area to loop back round onto the Concorde-not-really-a-roundabout junction to get onto the M4 spur/M4/M25/M40!

No need to, you can get down to the spur from the west (West Ramp), by the fire station...map here. (http://www.multimap.com/maps/#t=l&map=51.48021,-0.45343%7C17%7C4&loc=GB:51.60288:-0.01239)

[BEagle]

I guess so - but heading East on a sign for the M4 makes me think I'm heading for Laarndin! If it said M4/M40, I might trust it!

[RonAir]

I travel regularly from Hong Kong and either use LGW and Oasis (LoCo but use ex BA crew ostracised by the 'useless at 55' rule) so flight is great, HK departure is a dream, especially for us HKID holders, we just use a card swip and thumb print to get in and out so no obergroebenfuhrers to get by, LGW is the only bad part, but early arrivals are usual trouble free.

Alternate is AF to CDG and transfer to EGHI, I live on the IOW, travel time is the same as a direct from LHR, despite changing as you have to leave sooo much time to get to and then through LHR. Price is the same and the food is better.

For any other parts of the world, go from exeter/bristol to amsterdam or shannon and then on, cost is minimal and the stress levels are v low.

BA are loosing vast amounts of revenue from LHR, but its not just BAA that are the problem, the whole area infrastructure (air and land) are creaking, close to collapse and a glossy new terminal and tower will not allow anyone to get in and out of LHR any faster.

KEEP CLEAR

[larssnowpharter]

From the poll that started this:

The 20 worst performers

London, Heathrow Airport / Chicago, O'Hare International
New York, JFK
Atlanta, Hartsfield Int
Los Angeles Int
Miami Int
New York, La Guardia
Paris, Charles de Gaulle
Dallas Fort Worth
Neward Liberty Int
London Gatwick
Cancun Int
Toronto Pearson Int
Las Vegas, McCarran
Frankfurt Int
London Stansted
Orlando Int
Denver
San Franscisco Int
Amsterdam Schipol



Clearly, no-one who has travelled through Manila or most any airport in the Asian sub continent voted.

Not, of course, that it would be a good thing to compare the chaos at LHR with any of them.

Lars

[Donkey497]

Bealine et al......

>>>>"Much as I agree with most of the post on Heathrow, I can't see what your problem is Donkey!

25 minutes for immigration and the baggage to appear is good when you compare it to US standards for non-USA passport holders - especially if the immigration staff were processing fifteen flights!"<<<<<

My point was: 20 minutes to get to immigration, 10 minutes without moving in a "Priority" queue, another 15 minutes in another immigration queue after giving up on the fast-track queue , 5 minutes to get to the luggage belts and a ten minute wait after all that meant that it was an hour after disembarking before we got to customs.

I have flown through Atlanta eight times this year, so far, and I have never taken more than 20 minutes after disembarking to clear through customs, even when stopped for a "detail" check.


Being en-route back home from a ten day trip round various parts of the far east in comparison to other airports which handle significant levels of passengers our "National Gateway" is more of a National Chokepointas well as a National Disgrace.

Our entire airport network in this country has been neglected and starved of investment over a long period and the result is that the poor long suffering passengers who ultimately pay the wages of the airlines, airports, security staff, immigration & customs officers etc. & Ferrovial are consistently treated as an inconvenience at best and usually asthough they were something you'd scrape off your shoe in the street.

What Heathrow needs, is probably not T5, which might be a stop gap at best, but a complete re-think. The existing four terminals whould be better able to handle the current and predicted levels of passengers with some better organisation. It should be possible in this country to switch seamlessly between air road and rail at airports, schedules should match. I mean, if Holland, France & Germany can manage it, why not us?

Tell me the answers to the following:

Why are our airports not set up to serve the travelling public?

Why are so many airport employees lacking in interpersonal skills?

Why are there inconsistent rules for different flights?

What possible reason could there be for security screening passengers who have arrived on international and transcontinental flights before allowing them onto domestic flights? Other than of course our airports can't work out a way to have transfer passengers shift between terminals on the airside, rather than forcing them to transit groundside........

Why is OK for workmen to wander through security screening queues, loaded down with tools & cleaning materials (over 500ml in spray canisters) wearing safety shoes etc., and pass through the loops with tools and liquids unscreened yet passengers are dragooned into taking laptops out of hand baggage, removing coats and shoes and having these all x-rayed? - Very definitely a case of don't do as I do, do as I say.

[PAXboy]

Well, there's a challenge I'll take!! My replies are my own view, as I have never worked in the airline world.

Why are our airports not set up to serve the travelling public?
Airports were always seen as a 'service' and developed ad hoc over many years with no central planning. Also, in their defence, LHR has never been given the money to have a 'big sweep'. That is, to start almost from scratch. They have always had to stay within the central area. When they did break out of it (T4) it was already too small (not enough money spent on it?) and the inter-connections with the central area were/are disastrous.

They could never get more land and they could not close down one terminal for two years to pull it down and start again. This led to a long period of Mend-And-Make-Do. Then the Conservative govt decided to privatise it as 'they' would put the money in - but then hobbled them with the price cap. So, instead of having a capitalist system, they wanted the best of both worlds - to not put in central money and yet control it. So, inevitably, we got the worst of both worlds.

Why are so many airport employees lacking in interpersonal skills?
I think this stems from the time when it was a civil service department. Although it was privatised 20 odd years ago, it is almost impossible to change the culture of an organisation. The British Airports Authority had been in place for too long and were/are too set in their ways.

From civil servants to private employees was overnight but they were the same people doing the same jobs. As new people came in they learnt the old way of doing it. Yes, I know that they had new training but when they got out into the offices and operational areas, they would have found themselves surrounded by the old crowd. Naturally, not all BAA staff would have been in that category but my 30 years of working in a range of commercial and governmental organisations tells me that changing the culture is an uphill job.

So, it is my long considered view that the situation is (pun intended) terminal!! They do not have the space to redevelop and the cost of doing almost anything is now frighteningly high because of the decades of inaction. BA finally got their way to have their own place and have convinced themselves that they can do their own thing and give their pax a good experience. Sorry to always be the Cassandra, but I doubt that it will work out that way.

BAA will be split up but it will not fix the problem. The problem will be solved by people going elsewhere and then the airlines finally banging the table but this might need a new generation of managers, rather than the old boys club that has kept CAA and BAA and the old carriers scratching each other's back for too long. I sit to be corrected.

Why are there inconsistent rules for different flights?
Can you define that more closely? Do you mean with regards to check-in, security, boarding, luggage?

[Gonzo]

Why are so many airport employees lacking in interpersonal skills?

Which ones? BAA? Or contractors? Or retail? Or all? If you meant all of them.....well, I don't think they're that much worse than the resk of the UK, especially London, in general.

Good service in this country is so very hard to find.

What possible reason could there be for security screening passengers who have arrived on international and transcontinental flights before allowing them onto domestic flights?

How would you feel if you were on a London-Glasgow flight, and you person sitting next to you had not been screened for that flight. But don't worry, he's been screened at some out of the way airport in another continent where security was on lunch break at the time......So that's OK then.

Why is OK for workmen to wander through security screening queues, loaded down with tools & cleaning materials (over 500ml in spray canisters) wearing safety shoes etc., and pass through the loops with tools and liquids unscreened yet passengers are dragooned into taking laptops out of hand baggage, removing coats and shoes and having these all x-rayed? - Very definitely a case of don't do as I do, do as I say.

Well, I've never seen this, I have to say. Where was it? Every day at work I have to go through security at LHR to get to my workplace. I have had all sorts of things confiscated and we have to take our coats and shoes off, and get frisked randomly. I'm assuming you reported this?

[419]

25 minutes for immigration and the baggage to appear is good when you compare it to US standards for non-USA passport holders -

NEWARK AIRPORT THREE WEEKS AGO - Immigration queue 90 minutes (only one flight being processed).

But isn't that a bit like comparing apples to oranges?

25 minutes for an EU passport holder to get into their own country.
How long does it take an American to get in to the US?
At Heathrow T2, there are normally only 2 or 3 EU desks open, and 15 -18 non EU.
Compare that to the USA, where the ratio is often much closer to 1 to 1.
(MCO, 10 desks for visitors, 8 for USA passport holders)

[Donkey497]

Quote:
Why are so many airport employees lacking in interpersonal skills?
Which ones? BAA? Or contractors? Or retail? Or all? If you meant all of them.....well, I don't think they're that much worse than the resk of the UK, especially London, in general.
Good service in this country is so very hard to find.
Quote:
What possible reason could there be for security screening passengers who have arrived on international and transcontinental flights before allowing them onto domestic flights?
How would you feel if you were on a London-Glasgow flight, and you person sitting next to you had not been screened for that flight. But don't worry, he's been screened at some out of the way airport in another continent where security was on lunch break at the time......So that's OK then.
Quote:
Why is OK for workmen to wander through security screening queues, loaded down with tools & cleaning materials (over 500ml in spray canisters) wearing safety shoes etc., and pass through the loops with tools and liquids unscreened yet passengers are dragooned into taking laptops out of hand baggage, removing coats and shoes and having these all x-rayed? - Very definitely a case of don't do as I do, do as I say.
Well, I've never seen this, I have to say. Where was it? Every day at work I have to go through security at LHR to get to my workplace. I have had all sorts of things confiscated and we have to take our coats and shoes off, and get frisked randomly. I'm assuming you reported this?
Unfriendly Employees:- Well BAA security are generally poor, but the worst of all are the ones out front on the "100ml & pastic bag patrol" who are unfortunately the first ones that people meet. Airline staff tend to be better trained to look after their paying customers, even when they get a bit stroppy & the airside retail bunch have a vested interest in being nice to the wallets and credit cards wandering past.
Re-Screening:- Frankly, sitting on a shorthaul flight from LHR to somewhere else beside someone who was last screened somewhere else is not a problem. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Being blunt about it, the whole point about screening is to pick up any weapons or potential weapons in cabin baggage. You cannot screen for any potential terrorist intentions in the passengers themselves, and if you have such intentions you'd get a much better impact [no pun intended] using a bigger inbound aircraft rather than a smaller outbound regional aircraft.
You also have the discrepancy whereby you can arrive on a domestic flight, change gates with your next boarding pass already issued at your origin and board the flight without any further checks. So why not the same on an international flight, after all you can check your baggage through to your end destination without having to re-check it, so why not for the self loading freight?
Screening of Contractors:- This happened on Friday the 2nd of November between around 13:00 at the screening line at the left hand side of the domestic departures gate when a bunch of cleaners and contractors jumped the queue from the staff security gate in the corner beside the screening line. As to reporting this, yes both my colleague and myself queried this with the security staff and the line supervisor and we were told that these were pre-screened airport employees and that full screening would restrict their movements too much to do their job and wasn't necessary under the security guidelines as they were pre-screened. We were not exactly convinced by this but got no other response and for our pains had a fine tooth comb applied to our cabin baggage.:rolleyes:

Yes, my chain was well and truly yanked, to within an inch of snapping by all and sundry at Heathrow last Friday. :ugh::mad::ugh::mad::ugh::\:ugh::eek::ugh:I generally expect a poor experience at LHR, but last weeks was the worst yet.:*

[radeng]

Isn't this where a concerted approach by a number of people to the newspapers could really jerk the chain at DfT, LHR etc? If we could get a concerted campaign going (like the one building up to get rid of Ian Blair) sooner or later the politicians would take notice and screw Dft and CAA.
When I see (as happened) the X ray screener on the fasttrack at T4 get up and walk away, and the whole line stopped for over 10 minutes without anybody doing anything about it, it reinforces my belief that public floggings and hangings are needed amongst 'management' (they're not really worthy of the name!) at LHR. Added to the fact that there's ALWAYS one gateway closed.

[fendant]

Nobody from Central Europe flying C or F class would now even think to connect to a long haul though LHR. Since Emirates is now serving also secondary airports across Europe we have a far better alternative through DXB. If BAA / BA thinks that they might be able to turn the wheel back in the future they must be day dreaming!
If you fly Y you might consider LHR only if the price is very very low.

My negative list is as follows:

LHR
LAX
JFK
FRA ( the 45 minute MCT is totally unrealistic ! )
FCO
MXP
BOS


Frank

[bealine]

Nobody from Central Europe flying C or F class would now even think to connect to a long haul though LHR.

That is, if I may say so, one hell of a statement! For sure, at BA we have lost some of our regular "F" and "J" clientele but we still have a very high number of premium transfer passengers. So many, in fact, that we have ended up having to refit our 747 / 777 fleet to provide more Club World seating at the expense of World Traveller!

It would appear that the customer service British Airways delivers, both on the ground and in the air, seems to compensate for the shambolic Heathrow experience!

[fendant]

Totally agree with you bealine, BA emerged from B....y Awful category to B est A vailable.

However the "others" caught up especially in C and F, and they do not have the Heathrow burden.

Frank

[radeng]

But remember, Bealine, that the 'baggage tracing service' of BA is such a shambles that it could well be run by LHR management! To my mind, the redeeming features about BA are the check in staff, the cabin and flight crews, the people in the Exec Club lounges, and the ppeople on the end of the telephone at executive Club. BTW, are BA still running the 'engineers want spares' programme?

[10secondsurvey]

Quote "it reinforces my belief that public floggings and hangings are needed amongst 'management' (they're not really worthy of the name!) at LHR"

If only.

[SLF3]

Some airports that are quicker to get through than Heathrow:

- Domodeveda (however you spell it)
- Mehrabad
- Lagos
- Cairo
- Manila

I live in Cairo: typically it takes less than ten minutes to get from my car to the lounge and less than twenty minutes (with hold luggage) to get from the plane to my car. And the toilets are cleaner than Heathrow..... So which is the third world?

[ZFT]

Manila is a nightmare. Horrendous immigration queues, both in and out being the worst aspects.

[bealine]

But remember, Bealine, that the 'baggage tracing service' of BA is such a shambles that it could well be run by LHR management! To my mind, the redeeming features about BA are the check in staff, the cabin and flight crews, the people in the Exec Club lounges, and the ppeople on the end of the telephone at executive Club. BTW, are BA still running the 'engineers want spares' programme?

Yes, radeng, I take your point, and BTW, the "Engineers' want spares" is still up and running - BA has spent so much money on it they are determined to make it work even if it means banging the square peg into the round hold with a sledge hammer!

Reflectively, I think a lot of our customers are sticking with us because they know the problems aren't all the airline's making. BA has promised a wonderfully refreshing experience come Terminal 5 and this we simply must deliver! I can say that the building and its baggage system look mighty impressive, but we all know where the proof of the pudding is.............

[Donkey497]

Hey folks,

I hate to split hairs, but BA and Heathrow are not one and the same. BA may have improved, I can't personally comment on if they have or not as I haven't flown on them for more than a decade. As a student and a young engineer, traveliing for business they were pretty good & I would defend their customer care in those days to the death. But then they got too pricey & I haven't flown them since.

However, I have flown through Heathrow since day 1 of my flying life and in a large part, it hasn't changed a bit since my first flight. In places it certainly gives the impression that areas of it haven't been cleaned, painted or had any maintenance done in those 20 plus years.

As the primary port of entry into our country for the majority of travellers, all of the airlines and more importantly the travelling public should not just expect better, anyone in Heathrow's employ, either direct or indirect should take sufficient pride in their place of work to make it a better experience for the travelling public who ultimately ply their wages.

It's a pride and ethics thing, or maybe I'm too old fashioned.

Maybe Ferrovial can introduce a spanish work ethic into the workforce. It doesn't look as if it has anything to replace.

[backseatjock]

I struggle to understand, with as much influence as it must have, how BA seems to be served worse than other airlines at LHR.

As a very regular traveller, it always seems to be BA flights which have to park on remote stands with passengers enduring an often highly uncomfortable sardine-tin bus ride to/from the aircraft.

And BA baggage (LHR not LGW) seems to be the one that now regularly takes one hour or more to be delivered to the carousel. Does not seem to be a problem for VS, LH, BD, SQ and MH, among others.

Would love to believe T5 will be the answer to everyone's prayers, but somehow doubt that will be the case, for some considerable time at least. Apparently, there will not initially be enough stands to cope with the number of movements!

[Shack37]

:)
I was booked from Bilbao to Aberdeen via Heathrow on Wednesday and not particularly looking forward to it for all the reasons previously posted on this thread but either things have improved or I was very lucky in my timing. At Flight Connections security, usually a severe bottleneck, there was no pre screening queue and passing into "security proper" I had the entire security team to myself and could even choose which X-Ray station to use. It was about 4:30 in the afternoon. Is this now the norm? Are things looking up?
The other change I noted is the new uniformed, USA style border guard immigration personnel.
s37:ok:

[bealine]

Apparently, there will not initially be enough stands to cope with the number of movements!

There's no apparently about it! We have 10 coaching gates for starters in Terminal 5, so remote stands will be with us way into the future!

Also, you can look forward to the longest jetty in the world - at least a three minute walk from the gate to the aircraft door!

With the millions of pounds the architects were given for the job, how did they forget the most basic toilet facilities for the ramp staff - it beggars belief! However, by the time anyone realised the error, the 2 ft thick concrete ramp was already laid and smoothed so the poor chappies will have to put up with stinking and freezing Portaloos - and this at a 21st Century airport!

[PAXboy]

how did they forget the most basic toilet facilities for the ramp staffIn my experience, architects take their brief ONLY from the client. They tend to the most simplistic of conversations with the folk that are going to be the actual users. They rely upon the client to tell them what they want. Since the client tends to imagine that they know everything and the architect knows everything too ...

One example: Less than 15 years ago a new theatre was opened in the UK and they found too late that some of seats had restricted views. That is, the most basic requirement that all the seats can see all the stage? No.

I can give others but won't bore you.

[grumpysnail]

The only thing I really dislike about Heathrow is the average thirty mins to get through the "others" queue at immigration. That and the fact that despite a "good morning" and a smile (big effort after SYD-SIN-LHR in economy) all I get is a stony faced "What is your reason for visiting the UK?" By the time I clear immigration, though, bags are usually on the carousel and I'm at my hotel about forty mins later.

Boston takes the (dubious) prize for me. Up to ninety minutes on arrival to clear immigration and shambolic departures with aggressive staff herding people around. Plus it seems that the only working cash machine is at the other end of arrivals from the taxi rank. JFK and LAX would get dishonorable mentions.

Maybe it's just the disconnect with expectations and experience. Chaos and delays in Sao Paulo, Lima, etc don't bother me...

[skyhighbird]

As a regular flyer, esp via Changi and Dubai, Heathrow is obviously a pit. But unfortunately, the reason Heathrow has been so bad is becasue luxuries like restaurants etc just were not th ought of when they were built.

Take T4 for example. You have just 2 places to choose to eat before you go into immigration - that pub and the expensive cafe place right next to the arcades! How utterly disgraceful and sh!te is that? And this is the newest terminal (before T5 of course).

As for Terminal 3, yeah, its better. You have a wider choice for restaurants before you go through to immigration but it is still terrible. And don't get me started on the toilets- absolutely disgusting.

Worst experience was coming into heathrow from LAX on Virgin - so furthest point to walk from the plane to the terminal. None of the mechanical walkways (whatever you call them) were working. So I had to walk the whole distance from the plane to the terminal, then stood for over 30 minutes at immigration-with a british Passport! - Oh- and I failed to mention that I was wearing heels and they sure werent low ones! not by a long shot. NOw obviously my choice of footwear is my problem, but to have ALL of the walkways not working was a disgrace in my opinion.

What about those with kids? Old people. This would never happen in Changi or Dubai. But I am hopeful about T5. there will be a massive shopping resort, Ramsey is opening up a restaurant etc so at least we will have one terminal to be proud of!

Worst airport? I'd say its the worst Major International Airport. Some people envy me for having a job where i travel around the world (im not a pilot nor a FA). But I spend as much time in airports as I do in the air. And it really isn't nice.

Blog over!
Lucy
x

[llanfairpg]

By the way, they did the survey in Hounslow

[airmemphis]

I live in Cairo: typically it takes less than ten minutes to get from my car to the lounge and less than twenty minutes (with hold luggage) to get from the plane to my car. And the toilets are cleaner than Heathrow..... So which is the third world?

Very true. And I expect things to get even better when CAI's T3 opens later this year.

[bealine]

I live in Cairo: typically it takes less than ten minutes to get from my car to the lounge and less than twenty minutes (with hold luggage) to get from the plane to my car. And the toilets are cleaner than Heathrow..... So which is the third world?

.........Yes, but how many people are moving in and out of Cairo every day in comparison with Heathrow?

Living in this overcrowded, overtaxed and dirty filthy place that used to be Great Britain, one does sometimes wonder what the great attraction is that brings people here!

[Final 3 Greens]

........Yes, but how many people are moving in and out of Cairo every day in comparison with Heathrow?

About 10 million people enter and leave Cairo every morning and evening.

[TightSlot]

bealine - let's make the Donkey Ad a one-off please, then honour is satisfied all round.

[radeng]

I still say let BA take over the running of Heathrow!!

Yes, BA management are cr*p. But they MUST be better than Bl***y Awful Airports management.

And there are still a surprising ( bearing in mind the way BA management have cr******d on them) number of BA 'sharp end' staff who still have an attitude of 'serving the customer'...........

[bealine]

bealine - let's make the Donkey Ad a one-off please, then honour is satisfied all round.

Sorry - just I was just experimenting! Ad now removed (cute though, eh?)

I still say let BA take over the running of Heathrow!

I would agree with you as we always manage difficult situations (such as 6kg cabin baggage enforcement, missed connections, lost baggage, cancelled aircraft etc) reasonably well. Of course, as Pprune knows only too well, you can't please everybody, but I think, on balance, the vast majority of our travellers remain happy with the overall service BA provides!

However, the DFT probably wouldn't be too happy to have the airline looking after its own security arrangements - conflict of interests and all that sort of thing. Of course if we did take over security, the TSA in the United States would probably have a fit of apoplexy and refuse to let us fly in or our of America ever again! (That's the reason most US flights have to have an independent security company carrying out checks at the gate!)

[Woofrey]

I still say let BA take over the running of Heathrow!!

I would agree with you as we always manage difficult situations

Cool idea. It's apparent from most of the postings on this site that any airline can run an airport better than the incumbents.

Wonder why BA management didn't bid for it when the Spanish bought it ?