View Full Version : Poppy Day


beamer
27th Oct 2007, 18:58
Much as I support the British Legion Poppy Campaign every year, remembering with pride a great-uncle who died at Cambrai and many former colleagues lost upon operations or in training accidents, nonetheless I get so frustrated at politicians and the media who seem to be desperate to wear their poppies ever earlier each year. Surely the correct time to wear a poppy is the week leading up to Remembrance Sunday ?



SOTV
27th Oct 2007, 19:08
The annual poppy appeal was launched at 10:00 on the 24th October. Fine to wear them after that.

Good to see the local Army Cadets, Sea Cadets and even the boys in baby blue out there today not only taking contributions from the public but answering questions lucidly and with some knowledge.

This makes a change from the usual monosyllabic youth that populate our small high street on a Saturday.

:)

blue up
27th Oct 2007, 19:11
Remember...
.....when your money drops in, it had better not rattle. Rustling is acceptable but rattling is O.U.T.!
Think about it another way. Going back to my youth, I'd have gladly paid a fortune not to have been forced to speak German twice a week with Herr Mr Percy in the german lessons. Now that I earn a fortune, It would be insulting not to pay an equivalent amount to say thanks for not allowing me to be forced to do German lessons 10 times per week.
Grandpa Blue-Up (just below centre) on 5th June 1944, some time after his return from Brittany where he had been a radio operator behind lines in 1941/42.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/foggythomas/Pic_IndCoy.jpg

SOTV
27th Oct 2007, 19:27
Marvellous picture!

1st Airbourne maybe.

MarcJF
27th Oct 2007, 19:45
If you look in Debrett's, one should NEVER wear a Poppy before All Saints Day - (1st November) and it should always be removed before the end of Remembrance Day (nearest Sunday to 11th November). Anything else, is, according to Debrett, pure common crass.

SOTV
27th Oct 2007, 19:59
As Debrett's is from French extraction I will take no lessons from them.

:}

Say again s l o w l y
27th Oct 2007, 20:18
Anyone who has to refer to Debrett's to know how to behave is nowt but common pond scum.

Don't you know.

Anyway. I have mine on already. Mind you I managed to knock it off into a puddle earlier. Oh well, I'll just have to buy another one. Not exactly a chore considering the cause.

MarcJF
27th Oct 2007, 20:25
There's really no need for you to be so rude SAS, but I guess that just show what sort of an uneducated individual you are, no worries, one day you may grow up, but somehow I very much doubt it! The reason for quoting Debrett was that it's in various publications today, talking about the wearing of Poppy's, bit like Christmas lights which are already displayed in some towns. There's a time and a place, and for Poppy's it's not yet. Not berating the cause at all, one I support fully, but, we're not quite out of Breast Cancer Awareness week yet! :ugh:

Say again s l o w l y
27th Oct 2007, 20:39
Mate get a sense of humour. The comment was tongue in cheek and certainly not aimed at anyone. Do you need a panoply of smilies to understand a bit of a joke?

You may have noticed the irony of me wearing one now whilst Debrett's says you should only wear it a week before.......

Standard Noise
27th Oct 2007, 20:45
Does anyone give a flying f**k what Debrett's has to say on the issue.
pure common crass
Yeah, like the guys who went over the top at the Somme, Ypres etc give a toss about Debrett's.

Wear your poppy with pride, regardless. I always get a sticky one for the windscreen and it's there for ages.

Tigs2
27th Oct 2007, 20:46
MarcJF

Sorry you cannot compare the RBLF poppy appeal to christmas. The RBLF are trying to raise 27.5 Mil this year. At Christmas we will blow billions in self indulgence. If, according to Debretts, one should cut the fund raising period by 6 days (nearly 50%) then we cut the opportunity of raising the money for our heroes. Stuff Debretts up your arse, if it hurts then donate £10 to our heroes, if it really hurts then donate £20, if it will not fit, then realise the sacrifice our people made and donate £100! (Please keep us informed as to what you give!!!). Frankly my pet hate in life is hearing christmas carols in tesco's in September, you could sell poppies all year round and it would not piss me off!!

Standard Noise
27th Oct 2007, 20:52
Come to think of it, forget Debrett's altogether and go out and buy something like 'The Last Fighting Tommy'. Life story of Harry Patch, one of only 3 surviving British WW1 veterans and then decide for yourself if it's 'crass' to wear a poppy for 1, 6 or even 12 months. I'm afraid I agree with Tigs, it should be all year round.

MarcJF
27th Oct 2007, 20:54
Well when it comes to charity it's a personal view, there is no right or wrong. Only a couple of weeks ago we had Genes for Jeans, then Breast Cancer, then Poppys. Each valid in their own way and folk will give to what ever cause they choose, as they should. Point is, like it or not, that Remembrance day is Sunday nearest 11th Nov, starting the Poppy early detracts from other causes, and that's just plain wrong. The charity £ is already fully donated in the UK, charities competing for cash against each other will serve nobody any good.

flower
27th Oct 2007, 21:04
I would always wear a poppy in my headset at work, I always manage to lose one when wearing it on my coat ad each year try ever more complex ways of keeping it visible.

My biggest problem is finding somewhere to actually get my poppy, last year It was really hard to find one.

Say again s l o w l y
27th Oct 2007, 21:04
MarcJF, sorry but Bo**ocks.

What a cynical view. We all waste masses of money on rubbish everyday. If you believe in a cause you should give to it. End of story.

My wife used to work as a fundraiser for cancer research and now as someone who has cancer, I'm very glad that people like her went out and raised as much money as they did. It means I'm going to get better, whereas 20 years ago I would have been in trouble.

If I believe in a cause, then I give to it. Personally I donate each month to various charities, but that doesn't mean I won't stick my hand in my pocket if something catches my attention.

I have never served in the armed forces, but I'm proud to be a member of the Royal British Legion and support them, buying a poppy is a very small act, but when enough people do it. We can help those who helped defend the freedoms we take for granted today.

As Billy Connolly once said. "Any one who can look in the eyes of a starving person in a third world country or on the streets of the UK and then talk about charity fatigue is an ar*e of the highest order."

Tigs2
27th Oct 2007, 21:05
Standard
couldn't agree more. Got Mr Pun VC coming to my house tomorrow for lunch!! I am wetting myself already. He had his first cateract op 3 days ago and saw his wife yesterday for the first time in 15 years:{:{:{. We cannot give enough time and money to the men and women who promised to give (and many did!!) their lives in the defence of our way of life.

Edited to say: Say again
sorry to hear of your predicament. Lovely to hear what your wife does, and i am sure you agree, there should be no 'dates' we should stick to!! Good liuck mate!!

ComJam
27th Oct 2007, 21:08
I could not give a damn what anyone says about when you should or shouldn't wear a poppy. I get mine on the first day and invariably have to replace it 4 or 5 times before Rememberance Sunday, it's something that must be maintained forever. Anyone who disagrees should spend a weekend on The Somme in the middle of January and then see how they feel about it.

Lest we forget.

MarcJF
27th Oct 2007, 21:10
Agree with all the points raised. Point is, in the fund raising callender charities agree dates for their programs a long time ahead, idea is to ensure everyone has a fair crack at the donator purse. No problem. Then one breakes the agreement and comes in a week early. Who's loss? And yes I do know what I'm talking about having been involved in this sector for last 10 years.

Say again s l o w l y
27th Oct 2007, 21:23
No they don't. Certainly not in the way of promoting themselves to get money.

They may have individual weeks, but none of them will stop advertising or fundraising just because it is aother charities week.

If the poppy appeal want to go for 6 weeks or even 52 there is stuff all to stop them. The fact is, they choose to do it this way as it maximise their impact.

Just because another charity makes a push at a certain time doesn't stop other charities doing anything at the same time.

I've just spoken to the missus and she says that the idea of agreements between the hundreds of thousands of charities in the UK is absolutely ludicrous and simply doesn't exist.

Sam-MAN
27th Oct 2007, 21:47
People can wear poppeys all year round for if they want! (in my opinion...)

Most 15 year olds like me wouldn't give 2 sh*ts about the war...

However... I went to the Normandy D-Day beaches last July on a school trip and it changed my attitude towards the war...

Most of the graves in the cemetery's were from young soldiers, who were still in their teens.

I've never realized the sacrifice those young men made for future generations, and it is something i will always remember.

You can spend hours reading and learning about it, but nothing beats the sensation of turning up to those beaches and seeing what those soldiers faced 60+ years ago...

Pegasus Bridge in Normandy was also a real 'eye opener' for me. While walking across the bridge the tour guide pointed out some holes in the bridge... When we looked closer they were bullet holes where a medic had ran out to help a wounded soldier, and got shot. It was weird thinking that someone had died on the very spot i was stood.



I really respect those men who sacrificed their lives for the country... RIP...

:(

rossym
27th Oct 2007, 21:51
Most 15 year olds like me wouldn't give 2 sh*ts about the war...

Unfortunately true; however, I can gladly say I'm not one of them ;)

People can wear poppeys all year round for if they want! (in my opinion...)

I agree! :)

chiglet
27th Oct 2007, 22:04
I "bought" a Windscreen Poppy [a bit like a Tax Disc Holder magnetic plasic thingy] 3 years ago. It is permanently on diplay in my windscreen. I still donate my "loose change" every time I visit my local Morrisons [Who have real people in Store, at the RBLF Stand]
Been to Pegasus Bridge, and cringed [in daylight] just what those chaps did at NIGHT. Also got "pulled" from the RAF practice Njmegen March (sp) due to blisters on blisters.....with a mile to go:{
Wear a poppy 24/7/365 ....do me :ok:
watp,iktch

Tigs2
28th Oct 2007, 12:24
sam man
after what you have just written your mum and dad should be very proud of you!

ComJam
28th Oct 2007, 13:00
Sam, excellent post.

I think visits to Normandy and The Somme should be something that all of the countries school kids should be required to do.

Sam-MAN
28th Oct 2007, 13:04
I can only echo what ComJam just said.

I found it an excellent experience and certainly an eye opener for me. Trips there should be offered by every school in my opinion.

We also met up with a WW2 veteran who lives in Normandy, and that was truly and amazing experience. The stories he told us were amazing, its a real shame that the number of veterans is slowly decreasing :sad:

TBirdFrank
28th Oct 2007, 13:38
And - please - its not just about WW1 or 2 - it goes on, merited or otherwise.

Maufe
28th Oct 2007, 13:48
So does it therefore follow that any event prior to 1914 should be ignored?

Sam-MAN
28th Oct 2007, 14:07
Obviously every fallen soldier should remembered, but i think WW1/WW2 should always be remembered... Especially the second world war, because without those brave souls sacrificing their lives most of us wouldn't be here right now...

Foss
28th Oct 2007, 14:07
Only just read this thread. A fixed window of opportunity to wear a poppy? I'm not going to pay any attention whatsoever to when Debrett says I should wear my poppy, ridiculous. Debrett? C'mon.

It a symbol to show respect for the fallen who have died in our name.
Not a f***ing social invition to lunch.

Got mine already, will inevitably get replaced as I lose it or destroy then I will attend an outdoor service by the cenotaph here on the day. Least I could do.
Fos

DX Wombat
28th Oct 2007, 18:20
sam man
after what you have just written your mum and dad should be very proud of you!Tigs, and everyone else who has said something similar, I am in total agreement with you and the same has to be said of Rossym too. :ok:
Sam and Rossym,(and anyone else who can, or would like, to help) when you have achieved your PPLs would you perhaps give serious consideration to helping with Project Propellor (http://www.projectpropeller.co.uk/pp/home/)? I was introduced to this great annual event when it was hosted by Halfpenny Green in 2006. It is a wonderful event and this thread (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=29917&highlight=project+propellor)is well worth reading all the way through. One day's flying a year is very little to give by way of thanks.

blue up
28th Oct 2007, 20:21
SOTV. The pic is of the 22nd Independent Parachute Company (aka The Pathfinders) who are now believed to have forced their flightdeck to get them there ahead of the Ox & Bucks (according to Air Vice Marshall Hollingshurst) They are the only actual unit portrayed on the 'Normandy' tapestry, IIRC.
Grandpa Blue spent part of 1942 behind lines in France as a radio operator.


Sgt Alan Kidd (Above Sgt Leverret) survives and now lives in Wallasey.

Lamenting Navigator
28th Oct 2007, 20:44
Poppies are going on sale throughout the London HQ suite from tomorrow, which is a bind as I'm overseas and wanted to show my colours before I got here:*

LN - waiting for room service.

Say again s l o w l y
28th Oct 2007, 21:35
Nail, head, hit.

Well put sir.

rossym
28th Oct 2007, 22:32
DX Wombat; when I get my PPL, I will gladly participate in Project Propellor, it seems such a great event, and well worth it too! :) Will hopefully have my PPL within the next two years! (depends on the funds available to me ;) )

DX Wombat
28th Oct 2007, 22:46
Thanks Rossym - that's great news. :D :D :D You won't regret a minute of it.They are a wonderful group of gentlemen who are quietly proud of what they achieved, who won't boast about what they achieved individually, but are more than happy to spill the beans about their comrades. They turn up smartly turned out with shoes polished to a blinding brilliance and are so delighted when they spot a colleague who they haven't seen for a while. They thoroughly enjoy their annual flight no matter what aircraft they are transported in, from the nice twins to the likes of the C152 which I fly.I found out that we pilots don't have "our" passengers (affectionately referred to by some as 'my reprobates') but they have "their" pilots and woebetide Dennis if he tries to reallocate anyone. :) My passenger was unable to come on the day but we have plans to visit Bruntingthorpe at some time. The attempt last Thursday was thwarted by the weather and the fact that he couldn't get time off work!!!!!

rossym
28th Oct 2007, 23:16
It sounds like such a great event, for some gents who I feel really deserve it. I thoroughly look forward to meeting some of these men when I get my licence, and hear their stories. Thanks for letting me know about this project; I will certainly be letting other people I know who have a PPL about this very worthwhile cause :)

pigboat
29th Oct 2007, 01:11
I've posted this every year since it appeared on the internet. Follow the links to either the audio or video version. The video takes about 20 seconds to load.

A Pittance Of Time (http://www.army.gc.ca/chief_land_staff/remembrance/English/Home.asp).

Radar66
29th Oct 2007, 01:18
'Bought' my poppy of the year (probably as usual the first of about 10 - either keep losing them or get frustrated with trying to feed that bleeping reverse hook back through jumpers without shredding said woolly to bits and ending up cutting the stalks and rendering them useless to wear again!) in Yeovil, Somerset on Saturday...

Made even nicer that they were being 'sold' by two reasonably young girls just starting off in the territorial army. :D

As a result, I donated more than i would normally do so. :ok:

Blacksheep
29th Oct 2007, 01:42
I'm glad to see that controversy rages - As it should!
When to wear it. Who gives a stuff about poppies etc.
My own opinion is that all war is wrong. Always.
More than 60 years on my Dad can still weep when he thinks of some of his mates who fell.

So go out and buy a poppy, but please, pay for half a dozen more. It doesn't really matter if you wear it all year round.

Lest we forget...

Sam-MAN
29th Oct 2007, 09:45
I always put all my loose change into the 'box' whenever i'm out.


Another thing that amazes me about veterans is if you say to them, 'your a hero', or words to that effect, they will never accept it... They will always say that those who lost their lives are the real heroes, and for that i give them so much respect.

Captivep
29th Oct 2007, 10:10
Absolutely agree that everyone should go and stand in one of these cemeteries in France at least once - preferably as a teenager. Profoundly moving, sobering and puts any complaints about our modern lives in crystal clear pespective.

And is it just me who has to fight back a manly tear when watching the clouds of poppies falling from the roof of the Albert Hall onto the shoulders of the young servicemen and women below?

2 sheds
29th Oct 2007, 10:39
Going back to the original post, I find the sight of newsreaders and reporters on TV wearing poppies (or any other charity symbol) quite unnecessary and inappropriate, particularly days or weeks before Remembrance Sunday. It is as if they are given instructions from above to do so - if that is the case, so much for any genuine sentiment.

I am also disturbed by the language and general jingoistic and nationalistic atmosphere of the event. I support fully, and contribute to, the work of the RBL, but I am afraid I cannot "wear a poppy with pride" - pride in what? In the deaths of thousands of young men who made that nauseating euphemism, the "ultimate sacrifice"? I admire their courage, but would have more pride if successive governments (i.e. all of us) undertook the subsequent care of the wounded and bereaved, instead of relying on charity.

Tigs2
29th Oct 2007, 10:49
2 Sheds

Going back to the original post, I find the sight of newsreaders and reporters on TV wearing poppies (or any other charity symbol) quite unnecessary and inappropriate, particularly days or weeks before Remembrance Sunday. It is as if they are given instructions from above to do so - if that is the case, so much for any genuine sentiment.

I am also disturbed by the language and general jingoistic and nationalistic atmosphere of the event. I support fully, and contribute to, the work of the RBL, but I am afraid I cannot "wear a poppy with pride" - pride in what? In the deaths of thousands of young men who made that nauseating euphemism, the "ultimate sacrifice"? I admire their courage, but would have more pride if successive governments (i.e. all of us) undertook the subsequent care of the wounded and bereaved, instead of relying on charity.
The young men and women concerned had no choice but to go to war, the governments did. Pride that young men and women were willing to lay their lives on the line so that ungrateful ba****ds like you have the freedom to express your nauseating views.
I do not consider it inappropriate that newsreaders wear a poppy.

Maufe
29th Oct 2007, 11:32
Sorry Tigs2 but I am inclined to the same views as 2 sheds. By all means explain rationally why you disagree with these views but less of the abuse eh?

Why does no-one ever comment on the utter stupidity and futility of it all?

On a visit to Belgium a couple of years ago, after having visited Tyne Cot and seen the graves of nearly 12,000 kids I went on to Langemark cemetery and saw the resting places of getting on for 40,000 German soldiers, also mostly kids as well. How should I feel towards them? They too had no choice but to go to war. Should they be ignored and forgotten?

Please take it as read that even if I won’t wear a poppy I am happy without reservation to dip into my pockets to contribute towards the care of the damaged, living.

beamer
29th Oct 2007, 12:17
2 Sheds - as the original poster, thankyou for your tacit agreement regarding the media and may I also say politicians. So many replies have totally misunderstood the point of my question. The concept of the Poppy Day and indeed the efforts of the British Legion and all service charities should not be undervalued at any time. I simply observed that the wearing of poppies appears to get earlier every year and I think that to some extent this does de-value the whole idea; I cannot get too excited about Debrett's either but the sight of TV presenters on breakfast television and Match of the Day wearing poppies two weeks before remembrance sunday seems rather too close to political correctness for comfort - lets hope they put their hands in their pockets as the make-up girl handed them their poppies !

lexxity
29th Oct 2007, 12:38
But when presenters don't wear a poppy people then write in and complain about that too (Top Gear IIRC last year). You can't have it both ways. Better to wear one than not, at least that way it is a way of promoting the cause, because I am sure there are people out there who have no idea what the poppy is for and if they see Alan Hansen or Natasha Kaplinsky wearing one they may just google it and then see what the RBL is for and does and then hopefully they will then donate.

Sam-MAN
29th Oct 2007, 12:47
I support fully, and contribute to, the work of the RBL, but I am afraid I cannot "wear a poppy with pride" - pride in what? In the deaths of thousands of young men who made that nauseating euphemism, the "ultimate sacrifice"? I admire their courage, but would have more pride if successive governments (i.e. all of us) undertook the subsequent care of the wounded and bereaved, instead of relying on charity.

Although i do respect your point of view, i strongly disagree with it.

Ever heard of conscription? Most of the young men who lost their lives were forced to go to war, and given the choice, many proberly wouldn't have. Therefore, i think we should pay our respects, regardless of the cause...

Sam :)

Say again s l o w l y
29th Oct 2007, 15:07
For those who think it inappropriate to wear poppies because of the futlity of war. I respect you right to hold such views (that right is one of the benefits that we now enjoy because of conflicts like WW2.) but I strongly disagree.

Of course war is a stupid and futile act and should be avoided at all times, but poppy day isn't about celebrating war, but remembering those who were killed and to remind people about the futility of armed conflict.

"Lest We Forget" means don't let the hard won lessons of history and the awfulness of war be forgotten. If you remember how bad it really is, then you are less likely to get into conflict again.

So supporting Poppy day actually mean you are helping to prevent conflict, not glorifying it.

Radar66
29th Oct 2007, 15:19
Good post SaS. :D

barry lloyd
29th Oct 2007, 15:23
because I am sure there are people out there who have no idea what the poppy is for and if they see Alan Hansen or Natasha Kaplinsky wearing one they may just google it and then see what the RBL is for and does and then hopefully they will then donate.]
Sadly, Lexxity you are too close for comfort with that comment. Take a straw poll of those wearing a poppy next time you're out, and you'll see just how many people bother, especially the yoof - the two fine previous posters excepted of course.
I am told by people who know these things that it is more or less de rigeur for TV presenters to wear a poppy, (insisted upon by the top floor in an edict handed down to producers), unless they have a good reason for not doing so. Pity that so many don't understand where the leaf should be positioned!

Radar66
29th Oct 2007, 15:50
:confused:


eh?




ummmm.... where exactly should the leave be placed?? I normally just have it upwards on either the left or right side.... :uhoh:

west lakes
29th Oct 2007, 16:02
2nd post on here I think is the answer:ok:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=107957

Radar66
29th Oct 2007, 16:05
Thanks Westie! I see that you are not as lazy as I am... ;)

chiglet
29th Oct 2007, 22:13
Try to visit this place
It has the name of every fallen Allied Soldier in the "Great War"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/chiglet/DSCF002350.jpg


It's the Menim Gate at Ypres...The local Fire Brigade play the "Last Post" every night.
We WILL [and must] Remember Them
watp,iktch

beamer
29th Oct 2007, 22:57
Chiglet

Whilst agreeing with your sentiments - in the interests of accuracy the 'Menin Gate' lists on its panels the names of 54900 British and Empire servicemen who were lost in the Ypres Salient between the outbreak of war and August 1917 and who crucially have no known grave. A further 35000 names of the missing from the area are to be found at Tyne Cot cemetary just outside Passchendaele. A similar memorial is to be found at Theipval on the Somme commemorating over seventy thousand 'missing' in that part of Picardy.

Not forgotten

chiglet
30th Oct 2007, 00:45
beamer,
I humbly stand corrected
watp,iktch

Codger
30th Oct 2007, 01:55
There is always a poppy on the outside of my walking hat. Another one on the inside. They're always there and have been for at least 20 years. It struck me back then when visiting a memorial that it ought not be a once a year thought and expression of the gratitude that I feel towards those being honoured.
The poppy on the inside gets given to anyone that I have a conversation with about the subject when on my walks. That extra poppy has been replaced many, many times since I first placed it there.

clicker
30th Oct 2007, 02:49
Only just come across this thread and have to say my confidence in youth has gone up a few notches given the posts by Sam-Man and rossym.

Very mature for their 15 years of age, well done guys

Hirsutesme
30th Oct 2007, 14:03
If you are "unhappy" about wearing a poppy because you think it "glorifies" war, then wear a white poppy, as sold by some groups to promote peace.
I wear both, red to express my eternal thanks, white to express my anger at their sacrifice and my opposition to war and warmongers

Sam-MAN
30th Oct 2007, 16:35
Only just come across this thread and have to say my confidence in youth has gone up a few notches given the posts by Sam-Man and rossym.

It's good to know that at least 1 person knows we don't all stand on street corners terrorizing old women :ok:

rossym
30th Oct 2007, 16:50
It's good to know that at least 1 person knows we don't all stand on street corners terrorizing old women :ok:

Here, here! :) I don't go out that much anyways, spend too much time on proon! :} (Yeah, I do need to get out more!) And anyway, the only old woman I terrorise, is my mom :p

lexxity
30th Oct 2007, 19:50
You'd better hope she doesn't PPRuNe! :}

rossym
30th Oct 2007, 22:53
You'd better hope she doesn't PPRuNe! :}

Haha no worries; she doesn't! But dad sometimes does... oops :p

Standard Noise
31st Oct 2007, 11:13
I hate seeing people wear white poppies, just shows they have no wit or imagination and are incapable of thinking up their own idea so instead they piggyback onto a decent cause which in no way seeks to glorify war in the first place.

Finally found a windscreen poppy today, thank goodness, had almost given up hope.

Foxy Loxy
31st Oct 2007, 11:20
Never mind windscreen poppies - you could have one on your facebook page too!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/30/npoppy130.xml

Foxy

Maufe
31st Oct 2007, 11:42
I hate seeing people wear white poppies, just shows they have no wit or imagination and are incapable of thinking up their own idea so instead they piggyback onto a decent cause which in no way seeks to glorify war in the first place.

I always feel very sad when people post crap like that. Disagree with the views of others by all means but HATE? Rather misses the point of the whole thing doesn't it?

Hirsutesme
31st Oct 2007, 13:07
Thanks maufe
I wasnt going to flame back so you have rewarded my restraint.

Maufe
31st Oct 2007, 17:34
not worth discussing really; if you dont agree with wearing one then great, keep quiet but please dont talk down those that really do wear them with pride. All of their sacrifices gave us that freedom of speech....

With you all the way Mr Flaps. I have been to the battlefields in France and Belgium, been appalled and horrified by for example, all those names on the memorials at the Menin Gate and Thiepval. I have given a lot of thought to these matters, everything I've expressed has just been my personal take and I do not intend to and hope I would never talk down to those who do not particularly share my thoughts. I only ask for the same in return but will refuse to keep quiet if abused.

Can I repeat the question I posed earlier and which received no response, should all the enemy soldiers who died just as horrifically just be totally forgotten? Not trying to be unnecessarily provocative, I just genuinely don't know the answer to that question.

Sam-MAN
31st Oct 2007, 18:20
Although i agree that soldiers from other countries should be remembered, i find it hard to...

To think that most of them will have injured/killed a British soldier, i just can't respect them, but thats just my opinion.

I'm not sure if anyone here has been to the British cemetery's and the American one in Normandy, but if you have i'm sure you'll agree what a contrast there is between the cemetery's!

The British ones are small, quiet and peaceful 'out of the way' from most places. However, the American cemetery is HUGE! Thousands of head stones, all perfectly laid out... it is certainly quite an impressive place. It's also interesting to know that each head stone costs about $3000 (Roughly that... can't remember what the tour guide said!). It's nice to know that the US government spent a bit of money to respect their fallen soldiers...

Here is also a fact about the American cemetery. There is only 2 (or 1?) women buried there, and i believe these were the only 2 women killed throughout the war. They were driving a vechial when they were hit by a bomb (i think that is the story anyway, once again a patchy memory!)

I would highly recommend a visit there, even if it's just a night stop over via the eurotunnel! It will change your view on the war for ever ;)

Regard, Sam:ok:

dazdaz
31st Oct 2007, 18:35
I bought a poppy and proud if it helps. What they gave, I try to give now.

Daz

BOFH
31st Oct 2007, 23:28
Sam
To think that most of them will have injured/killed a British soldier, i just can't respect them, but thats just my opinion.

Just off the top of my head, we lost 400,000 men, Germany 5,000,000 and the Soviets twice that again. A considerable number of the Axis combatants on the Eastern Front would never have seen an enemy soldier before being killed through enemy fire or bombardment, starvation or exposure. Those who were captured had little to look forward to.

The vast majority of them were young men who were simply doing what they thought was right, much in the same way our young men did. In terms of moral superiority, our former adversary has it all over us when it comes to caring for his veterans, while at the same time being unable to venerate them.

As for Japan - I have to go along with you.

BOFH

Standard Noise
31st Oct 2007, 23:28
I always feel very sad when people post crap like that

Well you can feel crap as much as you want matey, but the white poppy idea is a disgrace and those who wear them ought to think about what they hope to achieve by doing so.
As for my use of the word 'hate', I didn't say I have a hatred of the people who wear white poppies, just the fact that I 'hate' to see white poppies being worn. But there's no pleasing some folks on here. Maybe I should have used a different word or phrase, so I bow to your superior skill of the English language.

It's simple, if you wish to support the poppy appeal then donate and wear one. If you don't wish to support the cause then don't wear one at all rather than wearing a white one.
Oh, and that's just my opinion, the same as everyone else is expressing on here.

Tigs2
31st Oct 2007, 23:57
Standard
with you 100% mate

CarbHeatIn
1st Nov 2007, 00:31
it is just a way of thanking the old soldiers who made sure we didnt end up speaking german

surely a stars and stripes badge would be more appropriate :E

Standard Noise
1st Nov 2007, 18:38
Talking of which, gonna be in the Big Apple on the 11th. Don't s'pose the heathens commemorate Remembrance Sunday, or shall I have to confound the colonists by standing still at 11AM?

Maufe
1st Nov 2007, 22:58
Mr Standard Noise, after some 36 hours reflections I withdraw my somewhat intemperate description of your post 65, it was a bit unworthy. The principle remains though, why hate something just because you disagree with it? Out of interest do you abuse white poppy wearers in the street or worse, threaten them with violence?

Also why are you so patronising, don’t you think people do “think about what they hope to achieve by doing so” in their decision to wear a red, white poppy or indeed none at all? Do you? No forget that, actually I am confident you do.

It's simple, if you wish to support the poppy appeal then donate and wear one. If you don't wish to support the cause then don't wear one at all rather than wearing a white one.

Its NOT simple, I am perfectly happy to, and do donate folding stuff to the cause but honestly don’t feel the need to show the rest of the world that I have done so by wearing a poppy, or for that matter see the point of standing around for a minute except perhaps to the memory of all people destroyed by warfare. Full respect though for those who presumably have thought it through for themselves and still, like you, decide to wear a red poppy and observe a minutes silence. I’ll ignore the rest who I wonder if they just follow like sheep, trotting out their cliches and dishing out abuse to anyone who dares to express a contrary opinion.

Say again s l o w l y
1st Nov 2007, 23:12
Whether you stand still at 1100 on 11/11 or wear a poppy is irrelevant. The fact is, we live in a free society where you are able to decide to support a cause or not.

For me, wearing a poppy symbolises something, if you choose not to, but are aware of the reasons behind poppy day, then so be it. If you choose to donate , but not wear a poppy, that is also fine.

Poppy day is about rememberance. If you remember the reasons why we have a day like this, then that is what matters.

What galls me, is the leading role our glorious political leaders take in the ceremonies, whilst sendng our troops to fight and die in quite frankly pointless conflicts. That goes against everything poppy day stands for in my eyes.

Sorry to chuck politics into this.

Whirlygig
1st Nov 2007, 23:40
If you choose to donate , but not wear a poppy, that is also fine.

I certainly donate but it's not that I choose not to wear a poppy but that I keep losing them :rolleyes:. Mine is in the house where it stays now!

Cheers

Whirls

Say again s l o w l y
1st Nov 2007, 23:44
I'm on my 4th poppy already. They're the most expensive flowers I've ever bought!!

I've been picking up these new ones that have sticky tape on the back instead of having to use a pin.

They do seem to be better, but I'm still losing just as many as usual. I'm sure that's just down to my cack handedness rather than any design flaws.

Don't worry Whirls, I won't attack you in the street or call you names just because you haven't got a poppy on your lapel.

That would slightly defeat the whole point of the excercise!

Whirlygig
1st Nov 2007, 23:49
Ah those halcyon days when some old boy from the RBL pinned a poppy on your chest; they're not allowed to anymore - sexual harassment and health & safety (I kid you not!).

I might see if I can find a sticky one and try those!

Cheers

Whirls

Lost_ethics
1st Nov 2007, 23:51
I've been picking up these new ones that have sticky tape on the back instead of having to use a pin.

I've not seen them, I'll have a look for them next time I'm out. I can't seem to get the poppy to stay in with a pin...

Foss
2nd Nov 2007, 01:18
Maufe
why hate something just because you disagree with it? Out of interest do you abuse white poppy wearers in the street or worse, threaten them with violence?
That is one hell of a leap. You are suggesting Standard would threaten a physical assault on someone wearing a white poppy.

Full respect though for those who presumably have thought it through for themselves and 'still, like you,' (my italics) decide to wear a red poppy
And still, despite having thought it through. Obviously idiots.

I withdraw my somewhat intemperate description of your post 65, it was a bit unworthy. The principle remains though
I withdraw my overblown statement, but I stand by it.
Fos

Maufe
2nd Nov 2007, 09:13
Maufe
That is one hell of a leap. You are suggesting Standard would threaten a physical assault on someone wearing a white poppy.
Not necessarily Standard, but many have actually said this (I refer you to similar discussions about 12 months ago).
And still, despite having thought it through. Obviously idiots.
Foss, that a terrible thing to say. Fancy saying that people with sincere views have the same intelligence levels as your dog! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I certainly don't take that view, just because they have come to different conclusions to me.
I withdraw my overblown statement, but I stand by it.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear, I was of course refereing to the first part of my post where I called Standard's post as being crap. That was unworthy as it was just an example of the intolerence of many who see any deviation from the 'traditional', for want of a better word, line.

divingduck
2nd Nov 2007, 16:30
This poem was written many years ago by a close friend of the family, an RAAF WWII pilot.
Still brings a tear to the eye...he is not a poet, just someone who went through the war.
I hope I can do his words justice with my typing.

Why Wear a Poppy?

“Please wear a poppy” the lady said
And held one forth, but I shook my head.
Then I stopped and watched as she offered them there
And her face was old and lined with care
But beneath the scars the years had made
There remained a smile that refused to fade.

A boy came whistling down the street,
Bouncing along on carefree feet
His smile was full of joy and fun
“Lady” said he, “May I have one?”
When she’d pinned it on he turned to say
“Why do we wear a poppy today?”

The lady smiled in her wistful way
And answered, “This is Remembrance Day,
And the poppy there is a symbol for
The gallant men who died in war
And because they died, you and I are free
That’s why we wear a poppy you see.”

“I had a boy about your size
With golden hair and big blue eyes
He loved to play and jump and shout,
Free as a bird he would race about
As the years went by, he learned and grew,
And became a man, as you will too.”

“He was fine and strong with a boyish smile
But he seemed with us such a little while,
When war broke out, and he went away
I still remember his face that day
When he smiled at me and said goodbye
I’ll be back soon Mum so please don’t cry”.

But the war went on and he had to stay,
And all I could do was wait and pray
His letters told of the awful fight
I can still see it in my dreams at night.”

“With tanks and guns, and cruel barbed wire,
And the mines and bullets, the bombs and fire,
Til at last, at last the war was won
And that’s why we wear a poppy son”

The small boy turned as if to go,
Then said “Thanks lady, I’m glad to know,
That sure did sound like and awful fight
But your son, did he come home alright?”

A tear rolled down each faded cheek,
She shook her head, but she didn’t speak,
I slunk away in a sort of shame,
And if you were me, you’d do the same,
For our thanks in giving is oft delayed
Though our freedom was bought, and thousands paid.

And so when we see a poppy worn
Let us reflect, on the burden borne
By those who gave their very all
When asked to answer their country’s call,
That we at home in peace might live
Then wear a poppy.
Remember and give.

J.C. Cooper

Sam-MAN
2nd Nov 2007, 18:17
Wow, excellent poem :ok:

While eating my tea a few minutes ago i was watching Airline and there was a few WW2 veterans going to a cemetery to find their friends graves, brought a tear to my eye. They still cried even tho it had been 60+ years since it happened :(

What annoys me is how others my age don't give two sh!ts about it :( I just don't understand how people can not remember what these brave people did for us, it's such a shame. Perhaps they should be forced to go to the museums in France and see what our veterans had to put up with, i'm sure that would sort them out! :mad: Just seeing thousands of graves lined up brings a sense of realism to the whole experience, and makes you realize how lucky we really are now-a-days. I just hope that the war continues to be taught in the national curriculum for many, many years to come :(

RIP...

Regards, Sam

frostbite
2nd Nov 2007, 21:24
Better yet, your friends should have been shown the excellent and harrowing BBC series The Great War (available in 7 DVD set), in school.

Believe it's something like 24hrs long in total, so could easily be spread over a complete school term.

That's real education.

Sam-MAN
2nd Nov 2007, 22:08
I think i may of actually seen a few of them :)

Quite old videos, produced in the 80's maybe?

IF so, seen a lot of them and they are bloody excellent!

Off topic... but Saving Private Ryan, what a film :ok: