Unfreezing an ATPL

[FMC OVERHEAT]

I am interested to get a FULL ATPL JAR license. I will soon start a JAA ATPL distance learning course.
I currently hold an ICAO CPL and doing theoretical ATPL, type rated on B737 with 2800h TT and 2400h B737.
-To convert an ICAO CPL to a JAA ATPL you will need JAA ATPL theory completed and 1500 hours flight time including:
* 500 hours on multi-pilot aircraft,
* 250 hours pilot in command,
* 200 hours cross country,
* 75 hours instrument time and
* 30 hours night.
I still miss 80 hours PIC to qualify though. I'll manage somehow to get those 80 hours as PICUS.
But the question is : Do you need to be CAPTAIN (obviously on the plane to be used for the skill test) in order to unfreeze you JAA fATPL? or you just have to get the hours and take the skill test? What does the skill test consist of? If the CPL skill test is done on a B737 sim does it count instead of doing the ATPL skill test?
It's really a complicated process to convert to JAA.

[FunFlyin]

If the only question you were asking is whether you need to be a captain.

The its a nice simple no answer :)

I'm pretty sure that (in the UK at least - other JAR states could be different) that you can only operate in command of a multi pilot aircraft once you have the full licence. So you just need the skill test

And as far as i'm aware the skills test will be like an LPC but with a couple extra parts, and can only be completed after you have the required hours

[wobble2plank]

FMC,
You will need a standard LPC/OPC check with a tick on it as an ATPL skills test which will require a manual ILS to be flown. That's the only difference.

You will then need to present your log books to the CAA with ALL pic u/s hours countersigned by the appropriate Captains or a letter from your employer stating that the hours accumulated as PIC U/S are correct.

Then pay £216 for the privilige of getting a crappy green folder :eek:

You don't need to be a Captain as that would then mess the system up for FO's with a CPL trying to get an ATPL on the same aircraft type. Can't be a Captain without an ATPL, can't get an ATPL without being a Captain..... bugger!

Enjoy

[FMC OVERHEAT]

Ok I understand that.
But in order to get the 80 hours PIC missing. In order to "officially" fly them in my airline I need to be scheduled for an upgrade to left seat and fly with a TRI.

1-Can I just log them as PIC/US when flying from the right seat as F/O and get them signed by a line captain not essentially a TRI/TRE?

Since I am missing those 80 hours, the skill test would allow me to take a JAR CPL not a JAR ATPL.

2-In order to unfreeze that JAR CPL to an ATPL do I need to retake another test on a sim?

[wobble2plank]

OK, not sure how your company works it but...

Any sector where you are operating as the Pilot Flying, hence making the decisions and running the sector can 'normally' be counted as a PIC U/S sector. This does not need to be given by a TRE/TRI but just needs to be countersigned in your logbook by the Captain giving you the sector and therefore 'supervising' your performance.

To be assessed correctly for a LHS position you MUST have an ATPL before you can become a Captain! If the issue of the licence is to contain the type you are current on, as most do, then you only need to tell the TRE/TRI at your next 6 monthly sim that you wish to upgrade your licence. He should then tick and countersign the ATPL licence skills test box on the CAA form. The sim is run as normal however you must demonstrate a manual, raw data ILS to minimums.

With your B737 time I cannot belive you do not have the minimum required PIC U/S time. This IS counted as PIC time towards your upgrade.

As long as you can present the CAA with evidence of running the sector from the RHS and prove it with signatures from the company or the Captains you will have no problems.

[FMC OVERHEAT]

Thanks wobble2plank this is more clear to me now how it works the JAA way.
The "rule" here won't let you log PIC/US hours unless you are with a TRI doing left seat training. This is mainly done to prohibit F/O from running away since they can NEVER get an ATPL here without undertaking an upgrade for left seat.
I can get a paper from my airline stating how many hours I have this shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks for the clarification. :cool:

[PaddyPaddy]

FMC Overheat - Where did you find information about a distance learning course for the practical ATPL? Is it expensive?

Thanks

[Jungle Jet Junkie]

Hello FMC !!!

You and I have the same problem my friend...I'm about to finish my ATPL theory (next month), so that I can convert from FAA CPL to JAA ATPL (the full blown one w/ all the goodies). I currently hold and EMB 145 type on my FAA ticket w/ about 2,200 hrs on it and about 4,500 TT. According to my ATPL instructors all I need is the skills test and I should be good to go. My questions is where do I go where I can get a type rating on this thing (JAA) without getting :mad: raped for about $21,000:eek: US. Everyone I called tells me I need a proficiency course on type and then 5 hrs in the sim. (including the checkride). After this is all done all I get is a "graduation certificate" that I have to take to the authority so that I can get my rating. What happens to a "temporary cert." issued right there???:ugh: Does it sound familiar?? If it does to anyone please let me know....it will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
JJJ :ok:

[BestAviation]

Since I am missing those 80 hours, the skill test would allow me to take a JAR CPL not a JAR ATPL.


Rent an old Cessna 152 banger and fly it around for 80 hours....Maybe not the most efficient way - but if all else fails it's at least cheaper than a B737 to fly....and it would all be PIC.

just a thought.

[FMC OVERHEAT]

Bestaviation.
I m considering this as an option This would be the last solution I might think of though. :cool:
PaddyPaddy there's no D/L ATPL practical. only theoretical. I am considering to convert to JAA only to be able to upgrade my CPL to an ATPL since I have the requirements.

Jungle junkie in fact we're having the same problem. For the practical part though you need to find a JAA approved sim for EMB 145 and do the skill test in a JAA country with a JAA TRE (this sounds complicated but it ain't).
It is basically a proficiency check (the one you're doing every 6 mounth).

Where are you doing your JAA ATPL theoretical?

Hope that helps.

[PaddyPaddy]

Your right I did mean theory...What school do you do that through? I have a Canadian ATPL and would like to convert to JAA but I have little to no information at this point on the procedure. Just looking for a starting point.

Thanks again

[FMC OVERHEAT]

Try bristol only positive thoughts about it. I'll be using orbit ground school in Netherlands. They are using bristol books.
Are you willing to work in Europe someday?
Good luck.