Enough with Ryanair

[Beaver diver]

PLEASE, DO NOT PUT THIS INTO RYANAIR THREAD!

Hey guys,
Did anyone of you ever even thought above the Ryanair's veil of deception , forgetting your primary needs while pursuing a job as a pilot, but rather press and bug the CAA and other bodies to investigate into a company like Ryanair?
Those contracts I saw here are just outrageous and I think that we need to notify our flight authorities more commonly about these things.
It will not just happen, unless we all together on this thing. The more we biatch the more we get heard.
I am firmly addicted to flying, but also firmly addicted to bust the a..holes who I fly with...


Cheers
PS: Please bug your local Aviation authority to do something about Ryanair or just put some ban on them...

[Captain N]

probably not the best person to answer your post but i'll say my piece
dont you think the Irish and Uk CAA already know what ryanair is doing? dont you think if they wanted to do something they would of done it by now? u think few of us going on strike or goin on demonstrations will make ryanair change the way it makes its huge profits???
personaly i'm a low houred fATPL holder, no other airline has bothered to even reply to my emails and letters!
now ryanair comes along gives me an interview date and an opurtunity to get alot of jet hours (quickly) do you think i would turn it down? hell no!
EVEN if i said "no way their contracts are not fair" there will be 1001 other desperados out there with 200 hours TT in there before you know it.
so unless other airlines start giving us a chance to prove ourselves ryanair will win!
Sad but true!
its very easy for people with 2000+ hours or for people who know somebody in the airlines that gets them a job straight out of flight school, to say oh no dont go to ryanair, but imagine my situation!

[wbryce]

it will take something drastic like a smoking crator in the ground to make the authorities react.

[v6g]

I don't see Ryanair breaking the law more than any other company - they're geniuses of deceit and staying just on the right side of the law.

O'Leary, I despise him as much as anyone, but there's no doubt he knows how to run a highly profitable business. And that's what he's there for, to make money for the shareholders. There are no nice people in business.

If anyone, it's the paying customers who are largely to blame, for accepting such low standards of service and making Ryanair so profitable.

As far as safety goes, it's debatable, they've not killed anybody through negligence ... yet.

Sure, they sound like a truly dreadful company to work for, but it's peoples choice to do so. Nobody forces them.

(can't believe I'm defending Ryanair here - I am ashamed - sorely tempted to delete my comments out of principle, but I think my point is a valid one)

[Groundloop]

Those contracts I saw here are just outrageous and I think that we need to notify our flight authorities more commonly about these things.

Regulatory authorites oversee that FTLs are being met and operations are safe. I don't think they have any jurisdiction over individual employment contracts.

[Finals19]

Beaver diver...

Couldn't agree more that people need to make a stand. However, human nature being as it is, they almost definitely wont. I wouldn't say the CAA is as bad as TC, but as noted on here by others, the IAA / CAA are well aware of what RYR are doing. They don't regulate labour issues, just safety, and
RYR's aircraft and op are pretty squeaky clean.

V6g and Beaver - not so long ago out on the good old west coast there was a much smaller operator (Regency/Sonic) who had the same game - from where the whole "buy your PPC" debate came in. Guys were deluded into doing it, just as guys are here. In the grander scheme of things it helped them a lot, (not the best move in many ways) and didn't hurt others too much at that level. RYR however is a different matter - a major operator who is leading a trend in making people buy their way into aviation.

Thanks to guys buying their way into RYR, the aviation job market in the UK is no longer a fair and equitable place. Money talks now, (it always did a bit but not on this scale!) An average pilot with the money can now get his RHS jet job, even though he is being financially raped for it, he sees that as a short term necessary evil. A great pilot with no money is still instructing on 172 / chucking bags out the back of an air taxi at 3 am. Lame.

[G-AWZK]

Would it not be better to ask what the airline pilot unions are doing about this wholesale attack on terms and conditions?

[Superpilot]

I risk the rath of some on here but here goes...

The problem is because our senior pilots, unions and other employment protection bodies have no back bone. Senior pilots earn far too much to give a donkeys ass about T&Cs for those at the lower end and this is part of the problem. They take their eyes of the rot that is creeping up because they know they'll be gone by the time it arrives. Since they are the main T&C swingers in an airline, if they don't fight for rights who else can?

Let me give you an example of how this abuse is controlled within the railway industry. There's no shortage of people wanting to train as train drivers either. It costs well over £60k to train an intercity high speed train driver, but you don't see firms offering train type ratings and line training joy rides with the promise of some kind job offer. Why? because the industry is regulated and the unions, upon learning about any such notion, would cripple this country.

Home come BALPA/IALPA and it's members havn't got the same balls?

Admitedly it is hard for RYR pilots to do anything because sissy Irish law does not require an Irish airline to recognise and negotiate with a union but even still a few hundred pilots queued up at the labour court demanding recognition would soon change this, but this act is too peasant-like isn't it? (laziness and lack of purpose - another problem)

The truth is senior pilots owe us wannabes nothing in terms of securing our T&Cs and it is this harsh fact that is changing the industry forever. As we can see now, paying for your TR is more common than not paying for it. I used to get real angry at RYR and other airlines engaged in charging for TRs but puting myself in their shoes for a moment: If RYR didn't charge 300 cadets £25k a year, they'd be spending £7.5 million of their own cash. What would you do if you were the CEO of such an airline? :hmm:

[Finals19]

Admitedly it is hard for RYR pilots to do anything because sissy Irish law does not require an Irish airline to recognise and negotiate with a union but even still a few hundred pilots queued up at the labour court demanding recognition would soon change this, but this act is too peasant-like isn't it? (laziness and lack of purpose - another problem)


I'll add...lack of understanding of their rights and all out fear of bullying management

Otherwise you have hit the nail on the head. IALPA and BALPA are unfortunately entities that are constituted of the old school and the old boys network and support operators where the "old boys" work...Irish law certainly does not help...

Could somebody please prove me wrong and show me great examples of where IALPA or BALPA (in UK ops) have challenged MOL and RYR?